Goodkind vs RJ

[Guest leebarr]

i looked into this and found it funny. Goodkind copied alot off RJ in his books. The funny part is this Tor publish both authors. Way would Tor allow Goodkind to do this knowing they where a rip off?

[Tyrell]

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[Moghedian]

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Oh aye...

[marcbreault]

Interesting.  Are you talking about word for word copying, or copying of ideas?  In terms of ideas I remember reading Terry Brooks' "The Sword of Shannara" and thinking it was basically Lord of the Rings except with a sword and not a ring but I didn't see anything that blatant in the Sword of Truth series but then, I'm open to the possibility.  There are some similarities such as wizards v sorceresses just as you have Saidin and Saidar and so forth, but I'm not sure that falls into the blatant category.

[algspkr]

The series are similar, but how differant can you get with middevil fantasy.  Personally I much prefer RJ.

 

Sorry about the spelling.

[el Nynaeve]

You trying to start a war lee, lol? :D I'm kidding.

 

I'm one of the camp who believe SoT is a big fat rip off of WoT. I think Goodkind just twisted his phrases and plots enough for Tor to not notice. That of course, is speculation on my part.

[marcbreault]

I personally do not mind "The Sword of Truth" series although at times Richard sounds more like a political cnadidate, and I also think Chainfire and Phantom read like books to fulfill a contract, but it's OK.  I love WoT, though.  If I'm reading something else when a new WoT book comes out, all other reading stops until that book is finished.  I think that is the only fantasy series where that practice applies in my case.  This is definitely my favorite series.

[Guest Dreadlord]

WoT is my favourite series as well. I am an aspiring writer and I have drawn alot of inspiration from Wheel of Time. Not the sort of inspiration Goodkind got from it, but more writing tips and techniques. The character developments, the way you see through each persons eyes in their point of views, the tiny early hints of big events, the minor characters that become major, all of it. I have started looking at it as much from a writers point of view as a readers now and it really is a work of art.

[aevogt]

Every time I see a post like this on one of the WoT boards I can only think of "Who would win in a fight between..."  Except this one would be a battle of words.  I'd have loved to see it.

[Igrift]

I agree with the money, as for the reason why.  I love both Authors, RJ more so, but still I don't think its a direct copy enough to be deemed not publishable.  Lots of simularities yes, but you can always find lots of simalar things between different fantasy novels.

[zzyzx_scarecrow]

I know it is a can of worms, but I'm not that fond of Goodkind.  As a writer I think RJ far surpasses him.  My question is how do the sales figures compare between the two?  Anybody know or know where to find out?

[Baldar]

Goofkind is horrid. Almost every other writer in the business is better than this hack.

[dlan4327]

Hey having started a post similar to this a while ago I thought I'd put in my two cents. Having read the first three books in SOT now and about to embark on the fourth I don't really get all the fuss. I mean, okay, Sisters of Light and those collars of theirs, Rada'Han, sure I can understand anger over that. Aside from that I probably enjoy Sword of Truth as much as I've ever enjoyed WOT and I don't think Goodkind's series impinges on WOT in any way other than what I've mentioned. They're both brilliant series and let's face it you can find pluses and minuses anywhere if you look hard enough. I for one really like the way Goodkind wrap up every storyline with each book. RJ leaves you hanging which is good too but when I read WFR and realised that the story arc was going to be all wrapped up by the end of the book I practically did a tap dance. WOT is a much more light hearted story and tends to gloss over violence. I mean RJ built up Semhirage as the mistress of pain but can we truly think of any truly blood chilling, cringe worthy moments from her? I really got into the sections of WFR involving the Mord Sith, won't elaborate but it's worth a read. WOT is brilliant because even in it's darker moments it's never too disturbing and I must say humor is far more present in WOT and I would describe that as one of WOT's best features. One more thing. I believe that I identify more with Richard and Kahlan, SOT, than with a lot of the WOT characters. It's probably because I feel they've been through real hardship. I identify with Morgase now with all she's been through but frankly I couldn't care less about Elayne, Nynaeve, Most AES SEDAI etc simply because they haven't struggled one tiny bit or shown any attempt at evolving/growing up. In that respect Sword of Truth and A Song of Ice and Fire have done a much better job of making me care about characters because of all they've suffered through and learnt. Every series has it's good and bad. I still adore WOT but I just might like SOT just as much and don't see liking one as hating the other. ;)     

[Razor]

We'll see if you still feel the same way after the next 3 books.  I hate to tell you but the final ending Goodkind comes up with seemed pretty lame to me.

[Tel Janin Aellinsar]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Razor.  In spite of the similarities to WoT in the first two novels of Goodkind's I really found them quite good.  However, as the series stretches on, especially after the fourth book, Goodkind's stories stop being 95% plot to 5% philosophy and end up being something like 35% plot to 65% philosophy with each installment containing more (and repetitive philosophy).  What is worse to me is that he fails to even integrate the philospohy so that the reader draws the proper (to him) conclusions about the character and their beliefs, but rather he'll simply spend pages pontificating (something I do frequently) without writing anything that contributes to the overall story.  Combine that with the assertion that anyone who does not agree with his beliefs is a complete idiot left me with a bad taste in my mouth.  It disappoints me to see such a promising story/world fail to live up to its potential.  And worse, to end in such a pointless, empty way.  Good luck getting through all eleven books dlan4327.  I lost interest while trying to read his seventh book, and went back and forced myself to finish the series after he wrote the conclusion.

[Saidar]

I'm about to read Goodkind after my second reread of WoT.

It's just to fill the time between the last book of WoT till the release of aMoL. And I also have to wait till they translate aMoL. So that gonna take till (I think) winter 2009. So I really need to find something else to read instead.

[Orange Fescue]

I'm about to read Goodkind after my second reread of WoT.

It's just to fill the time between the last book of WoT till the release of aMoL. And I also have to wait till they translate aMoL. So that gonna take till (I think) winter 2009. So I really need to find something else to read instead.

If you're just looking for another fantasy series to read while waiting, might I suggest George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire books? He's a better writer than Goodkind, a better historian, and there are no sermons. There is, however, a minor character included as a tribute to Robert Jordan, Lord Jordayne of the Tor whose sigil is a golden quill on a green and white field. Martin and RJ were old friends, apparently.

 

You should be warned, though, that Martin's work is darker and more medieval than Jordan's. By that, I mean it's not glossy fantasy with 20th century attitudes in people wearing tights and privies mentioned delicately, if at all. Martin's work is much less sanitized. Much more violent. Much more brutal. Much more blatant in its sexuality and coarser in its language. The characters are complex in their motivations and plotting. Martin is second only to Jordan in my opinion.

[aevogt]

I have actually heard some very eloquent people say just the opposite, GRRM a hair better than Jordan.  Not necessarily a popular opinion but some hold to it.  I think it would come down to personal taste myself. 

 

I have the first two aSoIaF novels and am going to dig in once I have:

 

Finished this reread of the WoT (currently through LoC)

 

Read Elantris and the frist two Mistborn novels.

 

I'll form my own conclusion after reading GRRM.

[zzyzx_scarecrow]

Martin is very good.  I won't compare him to RJ (blasphemy!) but I will say that each volume covers a lot of ground - no one could accuse him of pacing his books too slowly, the way some do with Jordan.  Absolutely every chapter and every scene moves the story forward.  You can tell he used to be involved in television.  He's also very good at making characters likable, even when they're total scum bags.

[Dashiva]

I agree with Orange Fescue, Martin is a very good author and the song of ice and fire a great series. Its worth picking up and reading. Some have put it above Jordan-not me-but it does comes down to personal opinion. Ive been on these boards for years, and ive heard all about Goodkind and his hacks. Ive never read him but from what ive heard it sounds to close to be anything but. Im gonna pick up his series and read it just to see for myself.   

[Orange Fescue]

I have actually heard some very eloquent people say just the opposite, GRRM a hair better than Jordan.  Not necessarily a popular opinion but some hold to it.  I think it would come down to personal taste myself. 

Certainly it comes down to personal taste and I completely respect the opinion of anyone who likes GRRM better than RJ. Had someone asked RJ what he thought, I'm sure he, being a gentleman, would have insisted GRRM was brilliant. In skill and ability, GRRM and RJ really are probably equals with each excelling a rather different type of fantasy.

 

Because I was a history major and for other reasons, I really appreciate GRRM writing about Westeros as he does. Too many people have a sanitized view of history and his writing, although fictional, helps to burst some illusions. In that way, I like GRRM better and really appreciate his work, his research, and his accuracy.

 

Still, part of the reason I read books like this is to escape into a fantasy for a little while. RJ's comparatively sanitized and epic world is easier for me to escape into (in part because I'd rather live in Randland than Westeros) so I like his work better and say he's a better writer. For me, it comes down to one writing what could be history and one writing what could be myth and legend. When I've been stressed by the real world, I'd rather lose myself in myth than in history.

[Luckers]

Their methods are different so its hard to compare--if pushed though, i would say that Martin is a better writer, but that the Wheel of Time is a better read. That make sense to anyone?

[dlan4327]

George R R Martin eh? Gutsy, Gutsy man. Without spoiling it for you I'll try and sum up A Song of Ice and Fire briefly. THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

Oh and don't get too attached to any characters like you would in Wheel of Time. You'll just end up spending a lot of time mourning.;)

[bRANDan]

Has anyone read the books Acacia (David Anthony Durham) or The Wolves of Time (William Horwood)?

 

I just read Acacia and it was a great read. The story was quick-paced without feeling rushed, the plot was original, and it had a brutality to it that fit the real world better. I would not say it was better the WoT, but I did think it was good. Something to keep in mind while waiting for aMoL.

 

Also the Wolves of Time series, I've only read the first book, but the fact that it was written from wolves perspectives makes it very enjoyable. It also had a brutality in it with the "evil" characters being much more malevolent than in WoT. It was a good read, but I can see how many won't like it. It's worth checking out though.

 

Just posting this to see what others have thought of these books. I think I'll check out GRRM. Thanks for the heads-up on Goodkind I was just about to purchase one of his books. What are your thoughts on Terry Brooks?

[Tyrell]

GRRM is the better writer.

 

*IF* RJ had managed alittle brevity then there would be a very serious contest. *IF* we were comparing the first few tWoT and ASoIaF books the race would be a very close run thing.

 

However, he didn't, and we don't seem to be. RJ is a good writer - better than Goodkind in my oppinion, indeed atleast a league above, but he's failed to match some other writers because the final page length of tWoT will be not three digits, not even four digits, but very likely five. I am unable to keep tWoT on a single shelf because it takes up too much room. It just got too damn long for me to recomend to friends. I can't, in good conscience say to a friend "You like the fantasy genre, here's my copy of EotW" because if like it and buy it, they'll end up returning to the bookstore 11 more times to pick up ~£100 of books in total. Total page length which with the publishing of AMoL will likely excede 1000 depending on which copies of the books you own.

 

TWoT is good, it's probably even worth buying all 13 books (when AMoL is released) despite my comment on the price, it's enjoyable to read. Unfortunately when if I were to mention to my friend before handing him EotW that it will span (atleast, depending on Sanderson after AMoL) 13 novels then I would find it hard to blame him if he fobbed me off, deciding that infact he didn't want to borrow my copy of EotW after all, that he hasn't got enough time, telling me to maybe mention it to him again some time when he's less busy.

 

Now on to Goodkind. I managed to read all his books once; quality goes down, sexual violence and objectivist philosophy goes up. I'll not be so obtuse as to claim that there is a link between the two, despite the apparrent trend.#

 

*ducks and covers, dons flame retardant clothing*