Since we're talking about seals...

[hurryupnwait]

Does anyone wonder why LTT wants to break the Seals?  I think it's more than madness he is plenty crazy, but he has a very strong desire to stick it to the Dark One and the rest of the Forsaken.  He is more vocal about killing the Forsaken,but that's mostly because most of them betrayed him at one point or another. I think he knows something about the Seals that we have not been told yet.  I think that is what Fel's note is about "have to clear the rubble to rebuild,"  I think the Seals are preventing the Bore from repairing itself.  Also I think the Shadow knows this that is why they tried to kill Dobraine and Bashere they are the most likely men to be the real "Watchers of the Seals,"  If they are able to get their hands on the Seals they rob the forces of the Light of the ability to bring about the Last Battle at the time and circumstances of their choosing. It also gives the Shadow longer to unravel the Patter e.g. the dead walking, hallways in the Tower,Stone,and other Royal Palaces changing as people walk through them.

[dyring]

Sounds like it would be a good idea if Rand was using choedan Cal when they finaly break the seals yes :)

 

//dyring

[Davian93]

I think the Seals are preventing the Bore from repairing itself. 

 

And you base this on what exactly?  Perhaps the fact that the Bore was in fact widening for the 100 years it was open in the AoL??.  The bore won't just heal itself.  It was getting worse before the Sealing and there are absolutely no indications that it would just magically go away if the seals were broken.  The DO wants the seals in his possession so that he can pick the moment of the last battle, not because the Bore will jsut repair itself if Rand breaks them.

[hurryupnwait]

what do you base your claim that the Bore was getting bigger for 100 years?  Everything I have read compares the Bore to a brick wall missing a brick.  The person behind it can talk to others through it and even reach out a hand.  There is nothing about it getting bigger.  If it was getting bigger in LTT's tine why would the D.O.  need to break the wheel of time and tear the Lace of the Pattern to break free, he could simply wait it out. 

 

I base the Seals preventing the Bore from repairing itself on conversations with Fel.  He explains it using an imaginary wheel in the air.  At one point in the wheel the world has forgotten The Dark One.  At this point they drill through to accidentally allow Him to touch the world.  Fel's argument is that by the time the wheel turns around again there is neither a hole or a patch.  Somehow the Dark One's prison heals itself.  Fel makes a point of emphasizing that the work of man (Seals) cannot match that of the Creator. 

 

SO I base my theory on that information along with the letter "have to clear the rubble in order to rebuild,"

Obviously the Bore must repair itself.  Otherwise Rand can defeat the Dark One for the rest of his natural life, but since the Dark One is immortal it won't matter.  Also I think it unreasonable to expect the Lord of the Grave to meekly turn tail and go back into his prison and stay there.  Also we have seen the disastrous results of a man made patch.  That is why the Seals are preventing the Bore from repairing itself.

 

My theory is that is why the Seals are breaking 3000+ years of the Pattern trying to squeeze into the space occupied by the Seals.  I believe once the Seals are broken there will be a narrow window of time for the Dark One to win or lose his freedom before the Bore reseals itself Naturally.

[The winds of Time]

Oh man.... you just opened pandoras box with this one, this is one of the touchyest subjects besides who killed asmodean. Fel's line of clearing rubble to rebuild is one that I have seen people scream till their blue in the face about what it means. In my opinion the seals are in place for 2 main reasons. one is to hold the dark one in by maintaining the seal of the prison. and 2 acting almost like a giant egg timer if you will. the pattern probably needed time to prepare to heal itself to close the DO's prison so as such the seals were created not only to hold the DO in but help prepare for the time when the pattern COULD heal. if you use the brick wall analagy you know that you cant fix a wall if you got crap flying through the hole every 20 seconds. it applys the same to the prison wall. the seals breaking took off a little bit of the barrier holding the DO's fat butt in enabling for the the pattern to heal itself to that "missing brick"

 

As such the last of the seals will probably break on thier own. and knowing rand, he'll probably keep the seals whole as long as possible to buy time preparing the world for TG. only when he's ready will the last seal break because he's Tavern and the pattern would shape itself around him to be ready to heal itself. thats the theory.

[Magicana]

what do you base your claim that the Bore was getting bigger for 100 years?  Everything I have read compares the Bore to a brick wall missing a brick.  The person behind it can talk to others through it and even reach out a hand.  There is nothing about it getting bigger.  If it was getting bigger in LTT's tine why would the D.O.  need to break the wheel of time and tear the Lace of the Pattern to break free, he could simply wait it out. 

 

I base the Seals preventing the Bore from repairing itself on conversations with Fel.  He explains it using an imaginary wheel in the air.  At one point in the wheel the world has forgotten The Dark One.  At this point they drill through to accidentally allow Him to touch the world.  Fel's argument is that by the time the wheel turns around again there is neither a hole or a patch.  Somehow the Dark One's prison heals itself.  Fel makes a point of emphasizing that the work of man (Seals) cannot match that of the Creator. 

 

SO I base my theory on that information along with the letter "have to clear the rubble in order to rebuild,"

Obviously the Bore must repair itself.  Otherwise Rand can defeat the Dark One for the rest of his natural life, but since the Dark One is immortal it won't matter.  Also I think it unreasonable to expect the Lord of the Grave to meekly turn tail and go back into his prison and stay there.  Also we have seen the disastrous results of a man made patch.  That is why the Seals are preventing the Bore from repairing itself.

 

My theory is that is why the Seals are breaking 3000+ years of the Pattern trying to squeeze into the space occupied by the Seals.  I believe once the Seals are broken there will be a narrow window of time for the Dark One to win or lose his freedom before the Bore reseals itself Naturally.

 

The bore is more like a hole that has a finger stuck in it. That finger is wiggling about, and if it does too much, the entire hand will eventually follow. Its not as simple as a brick wall, or they would have just put a brick back in. Once you have torn the cloth, and the finger is in there, you cant stitch it back to the way it was. This view is supported by the description of the seals being a patch on the bore. Beneath the patch, the hole is still there, and is still being worked at.

[RobertAlexWillis]

what do you base your claim that the Bore was getting bigger for 100 years?  Everything I have read compares the Bore to a brick wall missing a brick.

 

Its an idea that I got while I was thinking "What would I be doing if I were the Dark One?"

 

I'm wary of those "comparisons" ... we have to talk about the Bore in physical terms, but it isn't actually physical, it can't get larger or smaller (thats why I put words like "widening" in quotation marks).  But I find this idea interesting:

 

My theory is that is why the Seals are breaking 3000+ years of the Pattern trying to squeeze into the space occupied by the Seals.  I believe once the Seals are broken there will be a narrow window of time for the Dark One to win or lose his freedom before the Bore reseals itself Naturally.

 

Its interesting because we reached the same conclusion about the Pattern's ability to reseal the Bore, but for different reasons.  The only problem I have with that theory is ... what was holding the Bore open before LTT patched it?  The Dark One's power was growing, not getting less at the end of the War of the Power.  His ability to touch the world was increasing.  This doesn't match the idea of a "shrinking" Bore.

 

So, as Magicana pointed out, I think the Bore is kept open by Shai'tan, and that the Seal is like a bandaid over the "hole" with his "finger" still in it.  I believe that Rand will indeed have to break the seals, to "clear the rubble in order to rebuild", but I believe that he will also have to "push" the Dark One back out of the "hole".  I imagine that is what will kill him, but when he does it, then the Pattern should be able to fix itself.

[Davian93]

what do you base your claim that the Bore was getting bigger for 100 years?  Everything I have read compares the Bore to a brick wall missing a brick.  The person behind it can talk to others through it and even reach out a hand.  There is nothing about it getting bigger.  If it was getting bigger in LTT's tine why would the D.O.  need to break the wheel of time and tear the Lace of the Pattern to break free, he could simply wait it out. 

 

Read "The Strike at Shayol Ghul"  I assume you've heard of it?  If not, to quote:

 

TITLE: The Strike at Shayol Ghul 

  CHAPTER: 1 - The Strike 

  Detractors pointed out that the Bore had enlarged since it was first drilled, and behind the barricade erected by the sa'angreal it would continue to grow, so that eventually the Dark One might free himself within the barrier. The barrier might well contain the Dark One when all he could do was reach through the relatively small Bore, but could it hold back the Dark One let loose? 

 

So I'm basing my claim on a statement of fact.

[elmis]

Another point I think that helps to validate the "widening" theory/fact, is Shaidar Haran. Now we don't know too much about the war of power, but we haven't seen or heart about anything like him before. Even if he's not the DO's avatar, he's at least some sort of vessel that the DO uses, which leads me to belive that the DO has more 'control' now, than he did during the War of Power. 

[Nelal Hurcran]

Just a randome thought. What is Rand is on the other side of the Bore when it is re-seald, however that happens. It dosn't really fit with any of the info we have, but it is still a minute possibility.

 

Like I said, random thought.

[JenLenaMom]

I have read these forums for a long time but never posted before so...HI! ;D

Anyway my personal feeling about the seals is that the ripples that Faile and others experienced in PoD were the last three seals breaking/being broken.

[Davian93]

Anyway my personal feeling about the seals is that the ripples that Faile and others experienced in PoD were the last three seals breaking/being broken.

 

Interesting theory.  However, one thing going against it is that there were 2 sets of 3 ripples and those events were several days apart.  It could however be the DO knocking on the door so to speak.

[JenLenaMom]

???I missed that somehow. I've only reread that book once. Could you quote that or tell me exactly which chapters? 

[hurryupnwait]

the world rippling happened in KoD not PoD. I appreciate everyone's response to ny theory I can see I was off on some points.  However I stick to my original basis for the theory:for the Bore to be repaired the patch has to go.  They may have served their purpose and bought the world some time, but they now stand in the way of world getting back on track.

[JenLenaMom]

Yes I realized I refered to the wrong book later ::)

[TurboZ]

Well you could look at it this way-LTT patched the bore, long enough for Rand to come along and actually kick the DO's "finger" out of the bore and seal it for good. Unless I missed something in all this.

[Vassili]

I think I know the answer to this one!!!

 

The seals are not whats holding the Bore open, whoever said it was right, that the Bore was open and unobstructed during the War of Power, and there is no reason to think it would miracuously shrink now.

 

The nature of the problem goes back to their creation. The seals are "attached" to the Pattern, and if they had been placed wrong the pattern would have been ripped apart by the dark one. This is referenced as the reason female AoL AS were against LTT's plan.

 

Originally there were 7 seals (no doubt for a reason)and each seal took 1/7 the lode. As each seal breaks the remaining seals recieve a greater share. In turn, the remaining seals tug harder on the pattern they are attached to. This "tug" is the reason weird things are happening in randland (like the ripples mentioned above)and they wont stop till the seals are broken and the strain is relieved. In short, the DO is using the seals to destroy the pattern.

 

Rand himself mentions this in KoD while visiting the Stone. He says to himself how he has realized that before he can repair or repatch the Bore he must break the seals before they break the pattern.

[iron man]

The seals may need to be destroyed so that rand can repair the dark ones prison completely with Choedan Kal

[Majsju]

I've always looked at it like this. Imagine that you punch a hole in your wall. Unfortunatly, you're not a very skilled person when it comes to fixing these things, so you slap a piece of wood over the hole so it's at least covered. That's where the books are now. The seals combined make that piece of wood. And if you compare the seals to, say having 7 nails holding the piece in place, losing one is not a big deal, neither is two. But eventually you will have just one left, and it would not take much to make your little cover-up fall to the ground.

 

So eventually you have to call the handyman to remove the cover, and repair the wall.

 

 

[Phil_Megrim]

I think I know the answer to this one!!!

 

The seals are not whats holding the Bore open, whoever said it was right, that the Bore was open and unobstructed during the War of Power, and there is no reason to think it would miracuously shrink now.

 

The nature of the problem goes back to their creation. The seals are "attached" to the Pattern, and if they had been placed wrong the pattern would have been ripped apart by the dark one. This is referenced as the reason female AoL AS were against LTT's plan.

 

Originally there were 7 seals (no doubt for a reason)and each seal took 1/7 the lode. As each seal breaks the remaining seals recieve a greater share. In turn, the remaining seals tug harder on the pattern they are attached to. This "tug" is the reason weird things are happening in randland (like the ripples mentioned above)and they wont stop till the seals are broken and the strain is relieved. In short, the DO is using the seals to destroy the pattern.

 

Rand himself mentions this in KoD while visiting the Stone. He says to himself how he has realized that before he can repair or repatch the Bore he must break the seals before they break the pattern.

 

I must appluad you on this theory....though I havn't gotten to KoD yet so I'll have to watch for him saying that but I have two more conformations on the seals being more of a problem than a solution.  Fel saying that "we must clear away the rubble before we can build" as well as the fact that we havn't seen any Forsaken actually destroying a seal......only Mohgidien(sp?) was seen looking at it in SR during a trip to Tel`aran`rhoid she didn't do anything to it that could be seen...just smiled at I if I can remember.