one of three most powerful sa'angreal?

[Lunan]

in "the dragon reborn" we hear that the sword that is not a sword is "1 of the three most powerful male sa' angeral"

 

we know that the choa don kal is the most powerful, but what is the third? has is ever been show in the books?

[The Dragon Reborn]

A 3rd super powerful sa'angreal hasn't appearing in any of the books story lines (so far!) but later in the books it is referenced, but only to say that is was destroyed, or lost I can't remember which. I think it was more powerful than Callandor though...but I could be wrong. As far as I know, the Choedan Kal are the most powerful that's ever been made.

[DemandredFO]

Short answer, no Idea.  Lanfear says that there are two more powerful a man can use and she knew one (presumably the male Choedan Kal) still existed.  Hypothetically it could appear in aMoL but my guess is that it was destroyed by female Aes Sedai in the breaking.

[dlan4327]

I think what they were trying to say is that the Male Choedan Kal & the female Choedan Kal count as two separate sa'angreal & Callandor was a third.

[Luckers]

No, Lanfear specifically states that the two that were stronger than Callandor were both male. Undoubtedly one was the male Choedan Kal, but the other was NOT the female Choedan Kal.

 

My guess is it was destroyed or lost, and will not be found as a matter of realism. RJ is hardly the type to say 'well, after a massive cataclysm, three thousand years and countless social upheval all three will appear in the space of a year in the hands of a single man'.

 

My guess is that the third was mentioned merely to forestall people raising the above complaint.

[RobertAlexWillis]

While I agree that the unknown sa'angreal has probably been destroyed and won't show up, it would hardly be the biggest stretch of chance we've seen Rand pull off if it did ...

[Guest silver89]

Or when Rand's fighting Moridin, he pulls out the Choedan Kal to end the fight only for Moridin to pull out his powerful sa'angreal and put them on even footing again. :)

 

But seriously I don't think we will ever see it.

 

 

[Luckers]

I didn't say it was a big stetch, i just meant... it was a gesture in the direction of realism.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I understand ... I'm just saying that considering the other stretches we've seen, it would be a pretty meaningless gesture ... if someone wants to complain about Rand's unrealistic good fortune, they've still got plenty to choose from.  But -shrug- meh.

[Majsju]

Well, it would hardly be the first time RJ tossed in a red herring just to mess with us, would it...

[zshadez]

The lost T'A was actually much more powerful than the Choedan Kal. It was a polished white throne with a hole in the middle. Unfortunately it was lost in the Breaking with the rest of the toilet technology. Good thing no one ever has to go to the bathroom in Randland. :D

[wvlr]

I thought that the 3rd was the "Ring of the Tamyridian" or something like that.   I think LT wore it when he sealed the Bore and probably when he created Dragonmount.   But I still don't have the first book on me, so I can't be sure.    Or was it mentioned in the side story "Attack on SG"?    Yes, I know that that is not the correct name, but it should give you a clue.

[Lunan]

I thought that the 3rd was the "Ring of the Tamyridian" or something like that.  I think LT wore it when he sealed the Bore and probably when he created Dragonmount.  But I still don't have the first book on me, so I can't be sure.    Or was it mentioned in the side story "Attack on SG"?    Yes, I know that that is not the correct name, but it should give you a clue.

 

ishy did say "you wore the ring of tamyrlin" i always thought its a symbol of the leader of the hall?

[Luckers]

It was, and therefore I find it very unlikely that it was an angreal or sa'angreal. For starters, many of the First Amongst Servants were women, and secondly because the Aes Sedai in those days did not revere strength, so why have the symbol of a politicians office be a device for giving him strength?

 

[Steel Axe]

they didnt revere strength as a means to power by itself... but greater strength meant a greater ability to help others... which they did revere... but it still wouldn't be likely to be the ring as most angreal and sa'angreal were most likely passed around to those with the most need to help with special projects and the like

[wvlr]

It was, and therefore I find it very unlikely that it was an angreal or sa'angreal. For starters, many of the First Amongst Servants were women, and secondly because the Aes Sedai in those days did not revere strength, so why have the symbol of a politicians office be a device for giving him strength?

 

Well, since we know Lanfear was more than a little "Proud" of her strength and we also know of several male Forsaken that were quite jealous of LT's power, I find it hard to believe that no one Revered Strength in the Power.  Sure, they may have played it down, but the natural tendency was obviously there. 

 

People will be people.  If someone is physically strong, mentally strong, or strong of will most people will take note of it and value that ability.    I do not see why strength in the OP should be any different.    And if they did not revere the Power, then why did they create the Bore?    What is "Both men and women accessing the same source" other than an attempt to get both sides of the Power.

 

With the OP they were limited in what they could do.  Men can do XXX but I can't  or  women can do YYY but I can't.  With the TP I can do both!    Give me the TP!!!

[Seriodor]

I thought the ring of tamyrilin was just the ring worn by the first person to rediscover channeling in the AoL

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think that when Luckers said the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends didn't "revere strength", he meant that their hierarchy was not primarily based on strength, like the current Aes Sedai hierarchy is.  If you meet a Sister that "stands above" you, in the current system, you basically have to take their orders.  Strength in the Power certainly played a role in the Age of Legends, and people can be jealous of Power for reasons other than hierarchical ones.  Certainly people pursued power (and the Power), Mierin Eronaile being a notable example, but that is not the same as having a hierarchy based on strength in the Power, like the current Aes Sedai have.

 

What is clear is that strength in the Power did not play the same role in the Age of Legends as it does in current Aes Sedai culture.  Therefore, Luckers point, that there is no reason for the symbol of the First Among Servants to be an angreal or sa'angreal, is quite valid.

[Luckers]

Precisely. As Robert says, its more than natural for human beings to feel jelousy, and when it comes to such an obvious diffrentiation as strength in the power, obviously there were going to be Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends who it mattered very dearly too--theres even a comment by Demandred related specifically to how Lews Therin played up his power in relation to Demandreds marginally weaker strength.

 

But in terms of symbols of authority, it makes absolutely no sense for such a society to have an angreal or sa'angreal be the defining symbol of the First Amongst Servants. Indeed, its completely against their whole social ideal.

 

And theres the fact that many of the First Amongst Servants were women. The cross-gender nature of the role makes an angreal/sa'angreal pointles.

 

In terms of what we know, the ring of Tamyrlin was merely a ring warn by the first channeler.

[elmis]

Ring of Tamyrlin (TAHM-ehr-lin): a legendary ring' date=' believed mythical by most people, worn by the leader of the Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends. Stories about the Ring of Tamyrlin include that it was an [i']angreal[/i] or sa'angreal or ter'angreal of immense power. It supposedly was named after the first person to learn how to tap into the Source and channel the One Power, and in some tales, was actually made by that man or woman. Despite what many Aes Sedai say, no one knows whether it was a man or a woman who first learned to channel. Some believe that the present title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin.

 

I'm putting my money on the 3rd (or second strongest) sa'angreal for men is the Ring of Tamyrlin. I really don't see the point of adding another, unknown (until now) and all-powerful, relic into the books at this stage. Specially when we've been fed these few hints and clues when it comes to the Ring. As for it being useless for women.. who knows, maybe given it's age, it had grown into a status symbol for the leader of the Hall of Servants.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I think it's funny how the three most powerful sa'angreal include two immense statues that can't be moved without wagons and stuff...and a little ring.

 

I guess with angreal, sa'angreal and ter'angreal size really doesn't matter.

[dyring]

Soo, youv just been appointed the tamyrlin. Here you got the most powerful sa´angreal in the world(statues were made alot later than this ring). Oh, wait, your a female? Well, guess you can´t use this male sa´angreal.

 

I know, lets waste this sa´angreal by still making our female leaders wear it, as a symbol of office, so that it can´t be used for just about half the time.

 

Tbh, I don´t think that sounds likely. Then there are a whole lot of other arguments, but don´t realy think theyr needed tbh.

 

It´s possible that it was a ter´angreal I suppose, but there is no way it was a male sa´angreal. As for the myth posted as description of the ring, its propably something thought up by  the white tower aes sedai. They would think of it as a female sa´angreal ofcourse, since no matter that they know that rougly half AS where male in AOL, They still can´t quite think about that.

 

//dyring

[wvlr]

Ring of Tamyrlin (TAHM-ehr-lin): a legendary ring' date=' believed mythical by most people, worn by the leader of the Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends. Stories about the Ring of Tamyrlin include that it was an [i']angreal[/i] or sa'angreal or ter'angreal of immense power. It supposedly was named after the first person to learn how to tap into the Source and channel the One Power, and in some tales, was actually made by that man or woman. Despite what many Aes Sedai say, no one knows whether it was a man or a woman who first learned to channel. Some believe that the present title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin.

 

I'm putting my money on the 3rd (or second strongest) sa'angreal for men is the Ring of Tamyrlin. I really don't see the point of adding another, unknown (until now) and all-powerful, relic into the books at this stage. Specially when we've been fed these few hints and clues when it comes to the Ring. As for it being useless for women.. who knows, maybe given it's age, it had grown into a status symbol for the leader of the Hall of Servants.

 

Actually, if it was just a symbol of office, why did Ishy even mention it.    Why not just say "You were the Leader"  or "You were the Leader of the Hall"  or "You were the Leader of the Servents".    But he does not.  He says "you wore the ring of tamyrlin"  If it is just a ring of office - so what.  Many other people had done the same.  The way that Ishy gives it special note, seems to me that the Ring itself has significance above and beyond its use as signifying the leader of the Hall.

 

Do we ever hear of the Current Amyrlin's wearing a special ring?  I don't remember it, but it would be halarious if they are wearing it just like a common trinket, not knowing that it is a super object "tuned" to the male half.

 

Or maybe they just stuck it in the storeroom with all the other stuff.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Actually, if it was just a symbol of office, why did Ishy even mention it.    Why not just say "You were the Leader"  or "You were the Leader of the Hall"  or "You were the Leader of the Servents".    But he does not.  He says "you wore the ring of tamyrlin"  If it is just a ring of office - so what.  Many other people had done the same.  The way that Ishy gives it special note, seems to me that the Ring itself has significance above and beyond its use as signifying the leader of the Hall.

 

Isn't that just like saying 'You wore the Stole of the Amyrlin'?? I would believe that Ishy was simply trying to show just how far LTT had fallen: You were the Tamyrlin, look at you now.

[Luckers]

Actually, if it was just a symbol of office, why did Ishy even mention it.    Why not just say "You were the Leader"  or "You were the Leader of the Hall"  or "You were the Leader of the Servents".    But he does not.  He says "you wore the ring of tamyrlin"  If it is just a ring of office - so what.  Many other people had done the same.  The way that Ishy gives it special note, seems to me that the Ring itself has significance above and beyond its use as signifying the leader of the Hall.

 

Do we ever hear of the Current Amyrlin's wearing a special ring?  I don't remember it, but it would be halarious if they are wearing it just like a common trinket, not knowing that it is a super object "tuned" to the male half.

 

Or maybe they just stuck it in the storeroom with all the other stuff.

 

People constantly refer to Aes Sedai in terms of the fact that they wear the shawl. We've seen kings and queens named by their crown. Whats the big issue with Ishamael stating LTT's office by the ring that represents it?

 

Again, I find it very unlikely that the ring is either an angreal or a sa'angreal--or even a ter'angreal in truth--anymore than say the stole and the staff are. For all the myths around it, it just strikes me as abundently pointless, and the Age of Legenders were not a pointless people.

 

Moreover note this: ". It supposedly was named after the first person to learn how to tap into the Source and channel the One Power, and in some tales, was actually made by that man or woman. Despite what many Aes Sedai say, no one knows whether it was a man or a woman who first learned to channel. Some believe that the present title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin."

 

Umm, if it were made by, or for this first channeler and was an angreal... then it'd be pretty easy to know whether they were a man or a woman.

 

I really don't see the point of adding another, unknown (until now) and all-powerful, relic into the books at this stage.

 

At this stage in the books? This was mentioned at the beginning of book four. Since then we've heard numerous quite detailed references to unknown artifacts and places that will never be brought into the stroy. Standing weaves, the Towers of Midnight, Shara... it's how RJ goes about making his story three dimensional.