The better Amyrlin Seat

[Vambram]

Egwene Will be a better Amrylin by far. She was nopt raised with the Above all Aes sedai Dogma that Siuan was raised with. Most Aes sedai grow up in the tower and Egewene has grown up outside the tower and has Learned that Aes sedai are not Omnipoient nor even respected in many ways. She is proably the one Aes sedai that can truly see the core values of what an Aes sedai is supposed to be without the byass rose colored glasses.

Agreed.

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

I definitely have respect for Egwene as an Amyrilin (though Siuan was still way better), but as a person she has turned into some robotic ice queen who coldly calculates and manipulates. *shudder* I would not want to be her friend.

[Niss]

*shudder* I would not want to be her friend.

Dido.

In addition, Vambram has your mother never told you if you have nothing good to say do not say anything. How dose that Quote go if you keep quiet people think you are stupid but when you open your mouth they know it  8).

You do not have o hate the book if you do not like Rand and Egwene there are other main characters such as Mat (who is actually a personal favorite) so keep those comments to yourself.

I still think Suien would be best for the job. Do not forget she has a whole spy force behind her and she is the smartest.

 

[VampireGoat]

I picked siuan on unforutnately biased reasons

 

Personally I just can't stand egwene and think she is riding into self destruction.

 

Having read the series right through recently for the first time I was happy to witness egwene going from mocking rand's arrogance etc to being more arrogant herself. She walks the path of pure hypocracy(sp?) and  I can shake the feeling it's going to spin around and bite her hard. Not only that but she's been very quick to make a lot of assumptions with low amount of facts.

 

One day she IS going to confront rand as amyrlin and there and then she is going to fail to achieve her primary reason, connections to rand. It seems the list of things she has to shout at rand for have grown and grown since she became armylin and she hold so little of the actuall facts. To make things worse she's fully bought into the idea of the amrylin is the highest seat of power in the world making her the most important person in the world. This is the real defining point between her and siuan.

 

Egwene imo see's herself as well better then rand, she was pissed in book 4 when rand proved how weak she was compared to him and a few months apart letting her head swell isn't going to make things better. 

What she fails to see is there have been many amyrlins and will be many more, there is only ONE dragon reborn, which sets rand by default above everyone. He is the one who has to lead he is the key to victory in the final battle. Egwene still clings to aes sedia ideal that they are in command of everyone, including the dragon should kneel to them. In this Eladia and Eqwene are like mirrors of each other, egwene is just less of an openly vicious tyrant.

 

I think personally Siuan was better because I thought she put less behind her own personal importance. Egwene is a woman full of ambition and sits on a pedastal up high( didnt help people always saying how powerful she was)and while on that pedastal she has learned to control people of simular mindset and how to manipulate the snide lot. Unfortunately for her Rand is a lot more simpler, and he's not blind either. She is destined in my eyes to come face to face with a "Im the dragon, the one and only. Your not, you suck" situation with rand and it's gonna leave her floundering.

 

Siuan was a lot more commited to helping the dragon rather then ordering him thus putting her above the other choices.

 

Sorry this has become an egwene hate post, its been brewing for a while sorry

[Steel Axe]

hmm such a tough decision... I would probably have to go with none of the above. I mean Siuane was cool and all, but what I really dont like about her is how she sent the "supergirls" out as novices... well I guess nynaeve was technically an accepted... but it helped instill a sense that they are above the laws...

 

and as for egwene... she is one of my least favorite characters... not really for herself, because I like her in KoD... but I really hate how reading her PoVs show the rest of the Aes'Sedai. Her being raised to Amyril is one of my least favorite parts of the books, When I first read it, I figured it was for future bargaining with the white tower, sort of a you get rid of your amrylin we get rid of ours and we start over thing... but the more you read the more you learn that the rebels werent really planning that much, best they have is wanting a leader other than themselves so they dont get blamed for their rebellion?

 

So I guess I just like the Aes'Sedai disassociated with the tower and the rulers and all that... Aes'Sedai like Moiraine, Cadsuane, and Verin... so I guess I can pick Siuane because she was more along that line of an Amrylin, and Moiraine trusted her so thats bonus points in my book.

[Vambram]

 

In addition, Vambram has your mother never told you if you have nothing good to say do not say anything. How dose that Quote go if you keep quiet people think you are stupid but when you open your mouth they know it  8).

You do not have o hate the book if you do not like Rand and Egwene there are other main characters such as Mat (who is actually a personal favorite) so keep those comments to yourself.

 

Oh, so I am not allowed to have a reasonable opinion, and to voice it just because you do not like my opinion? Well, I don't care if you don't like or if you disagree with my opinions. Heck, I disagree with a lot of what I have read in your posts, but you don't see me getting all upset about it, Niss.

Please, just calm down and relax, and don't let things get personal just cause someone has a strong disagreement with one of your own strong opinions.

 

[balefireruinssteaks]

I like Siuane Sanche, but I think that Egwene has the potential to be a better Amyrlin.

 

Egwene's character has grown up a lot, and her skills politically are pretty good.  She understands the politics of Aes Sedai and she has keen insight into how to manipulate their own egos into doing what she wants.  I think as time goes on she'll keep that game interesting and become a great Amyrlin Seat...even Moiraine thought so early on.

 

I know she can be annoying, and we wouldn't want to "be her friend" but she's a political and world leader, she can't afford to "be friendly" in place of making sure the White Tower is complete and ready for anything.  She has to place the obligations of her position before her own personal feelings...it's what any President, or Lord or King or Queen would have to do as well.  Even Tylin has to sacrifice how she feels about herself and Beslan for the greater good of her kingdom and her people.  It's the same for Egwene and I think she's going to do a fine job of it.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Who voted for Eladia? ???

 

It's gotta be Siuan Sanche, she rules with an iron fist! We've never had much in the way of her POV's to put us off her either, which is good.

Egwene spends too much time thinking about 'fool men' and how 'she will be acknowledged as Amyrlin' Granted it's needed to develop character and explain motives and what-not, but it get tedious. None of that to put you off Siuan though! :P

[Rasheta Ardashir]

I liked Siuan the best as Amrylin she was tough and strong. How many women would have been able to not go bad from being stilled let alone keep her Keeper from going crazy. In comparison Egwane seems to childish yet for me.

[Jagen Sedai]

I think Elaida simply cannot be judged fairly. With Alvarin (sp?) being Black Ajah and all her reign was really tainted, and all of Elaida's downfalls can be placed on Alvarin. I hope that woman gets what she deserves by the end of it all. As for Elaida, I much rather have her as Amyrlin than Egwene. She's simply too young in my opinion and should have never had the position in the first place. I don't personally care for Egwene that much but I do give her kudos for her attitude in the last couple books.

 

Anyway I really wish that Elaida could stay Amyrlin but the poor woman has been tainted by the Black Ajah. :(

 

As for Siuan... I really liked her, Elaida shouldn't have disposed of her, however, from a political PoV I guess, I can see why Elaida and other Sitters and sisters supported the decision.

[DemandredFO]

I'll have to go with none of the above.  I think Siuan brought about her own downfall by being too heavy-handed.  Even aside from Alviarin, Eliada is an idiot, I mean Cairhein, the black tower, shemerin, Joline and Teslyn.

Now for Egwene, Egwene sees men as fools and cannot accept that they change i.e. Mat.  Egwene has studied with the wise ones and hasn't grown up with the "Aes Sedai are best" attitude but yet she has embraced it.  She refuses to see that Halima is a bad person, all Halima criticisms are the other persons fault.  She bullies Nyneave for revenge purposes.  Hopefully, AMoL will see her humbled, though I doubt it.  I think power has gone to Egwene's head

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

I'll have to go with none of the above.  I think Siuan brought about her own downfall by being too heavy-handed.  Even aside from Alviarin, Eliada is an idiot, I mean Cairhein, the black tower, shemerin, Joline and Teslyn.

 

I disagree. "Heavy-handedness" had nothing to do with Siuan's downfall. Any other Amyrlin in her place would only have gone down faster. Keep in mind that if Siuan and Moir had not done all their secret plans, Rand and the others would probably be dead. She basically played a big part in saving the world  ;) . Siuan is aMAZing. If I was Aes Sedai and had Egwene for Amyrlin, I'd slap her and then quit.  ::)

 

Now for Egwene, Egwene sees men as fools and cannot accept that they change i.e. Mat.  Egwene has studied with the wise ones and hasn't grown up with the "Aes Sedai are best" attitude but yet she has embraced it.  She refuses to see that Halima is a bad person, all Halima criticisms are the other persons fault.  She bullies Nyneave for revenge purposes.  Hopefully, AMoL will see her humbled, though I doubt it.  I think power has gone to Egwene's head

 

right on...that inflated little head of hers needs to be toned down

[The Lost One]

I am not defending Elaida and I don't like her and never really did, but....

 

Something I caught in my reread.  She was in the presence of Padin Fain while he held the dagger from Shadow L.  Fain thinks about how that will have an effect on her - basically it will make her a little crazier and more paranoid than she already was/is.

 

I can't remember where it was in the books, but being in the presence of Fain and the dagger has had an effect on her attitude and her actions. 

 

Again, I still don't like her and did not vote for her, but she is probably worse than she would have been without the effect of Fain and the dagger. 

[Tyrell]

~I accidentally forgot to open a new tab before searching so this isn't going to be exactly as I meant it but that's my own fault now isn't it?~

 

The better Amyrlin for whom?

 

For the White Tower?

Egwene al'Vere - she has it in her to become a very strong Amyrlin indeed; her determination and dedication to the white tower and what it stands for are great qualities if we are looking at this question from that PoV. She has quickly slipped into what I call the standard Aes Sedai mindset - the arrogence, the holier-than-thou attitude which is all too common in "modern day" Aes Sedai, the self-righteousness, the general air of superiority, the manipulative mindset, and so on and so fourth. Now don't get me wrong, I *LIKE* Egwene as a character, but I don't like what she has chosen to become - her dedication (which is so laudable) has lead her to trying to become the epitome of a third age Aes Sedai and I have nothing but contempt for most of them.

 

For Rand?

Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan (oh yeah thats one mumma of a name, but don't get me started on names in fantasy books in general) - Yes you heard me correctly, I'll say it again "I think that the better Amyrlin (from the choices provided) for Rand is Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan!" Why? Simple! She (well Alvarian using her atleast to begin with) has managed, extremely successfully to keep rand away from the forsaken (namely Mesaana, Semirhage and Demandred), given that he was rescued from one pradicament anyways... Turning Rand so completely against the white tower (and Aes Sedai in general) has been only in his best interests, leaving him to only accept those Aes Sedai he feels he should, protecting him quite effectively from the Black atleast. If the worst comes to the worst and by TG he still hasn't got anything more than the Aes Sedai who have sworn to him (and the bonded ones?) they should be enough to create some fair sized circles for him and by that time with Shai'tan stomping around shooting balefire from his eyes ;) the other Aes Sedai will have better things to do than try and "bring him into line".

 

Also keeping him away from the white tower has kept him from the nastiest mess of politics, plots and general schemeing in the entire world : don't forget who invented daes'dae'mar. If he had managed to forge some kind of alliance with the tower that he could live with he'd become so bogged down in it all that by the time he'd dug himself out of the mass of egos there (assuming he'd managed to avoid Mesaana) the Forsaken would control a goodly portion of the world, depending on when he did it either Sammel would still be sitting pretty in Illian with the Seanchan (Semi) controling most of the rest, or the Seanchan would have it too, plus a load more; Logain and his followers would have been toasted by Taim and his chums; the Aiel would have all deserted; Saidin would still be tainted; and... point in fact it'd be bad in my oppinion :P

 

For the world?

Suian Sanche probably - that woman has a level head on her shoulders although she is set in the Aes Sedai ways. If it were an option, however, I'd vote for "disband the white tower and have all Aes Sedai serve as wise one apprentices under Sorilea". In fairness if that were to happen all the windfinders should recieve the same treatment, though personally I'd just Balefire the entire Atha'an Miere race so far out of the pattern that they don't appear in the next third age.

 

Having them serve as wise one apprentices isn't an ideal solution since the wise ones are almost as bad as the Aes Sedai, but I find myself liking them more and more, even as I like the Aes Sedai collectively less and less. Anyways, ideal world? Aes Sedai get beaten over the head with their own name till the words "servants of all" flash before their eyes and they get a clue and do something useful for a change.

 

-Tyrell

[Wayhey]

You are a woolheaded fool for naming the Dark One.

[elmis]

Siuan, hands down.

 

I still think it's kinda wierd that they selected Egwene (barely 20, not even full Aes Sedai) as their Amyrlin, when they're probably in their most perilous time ever. Even with the "puppet for the hall" stuff.. they know they're facing the end of the world. Personally, I'd put my bickering aside and go with someone experienced.

 

Remember Davram Basheres thoughts in the CoT prologue?

"Tyrants could be endured, and the Blight soon killed the stupid and the greedy, but even this peculiar sort of civil war would allow the Blight to kill Saldaea."

 

That's good advice for anyone, and with the history, and knowledge of the Aes Sedai at hand, you should think they would reason that out as well. ;)

[dmanmiller34]

A thought just occured to me. The only reason that Egwene is Amyriln at at is becasue of Siuan and she was trained by siuan so in around about way she could be considered partly an extension OF siuan as amryln.

[DemandredFO]

Elmis, there's one simple reason that they didn't chose an experienced Amirlyn, they are Aes Sedai.  They wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them on the nose

[Vambram]

They chose Egwene because they incorrectly thought she would be relatively easy to manipulate. I am glad that Egwene has proven herself to the Salidar aes sedai and to the Tar Valon aes sedai just how wrong they were in their assumptions about their ability to manipulate Egwene.

[DemandredFO]

Yes, but I think what he was saying was that he understood WHY they chose Egwene, he just thought it was a stupid reason because Tarmon Gai'don is coming.  You should want strength, not a puppet.  Or at least that's how I interpreted his words

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Egewne would have been roadkill without Siuan as mentor.

[saidinwielder]

Hi all. my first post.

 

I voted elida cuz shes the only one who dosn't try and hide who she is. for the most part, all her pawns know that they are being used. its really easy to see her motivation: greater personal power. with the other two, your never really sure, even though you have read from there pov several times. elida is very predictable; rands kidnapping is the kind of thing only she has the balls to do. the other two just do whatever they think is best, even if it contadicts other things they have done, or puts others in danger.

 

thats my piece

[Samuraiflip05]

Much like true politics, the Aes Sedai and the White Tower are so full of S**T that they can't accomplish much of anything useful.  While Siuan handled this extremely well she has many of the same blinders as the rest of the women of Tar Valon.  Egwene has proven the ability to manipulate those who intended to manipulate her.  She also has the youthful, untainted view of the world around her.  I think that she is past most of her naivette.  I think that circumstances are more of a factor than the position.  Had Egwene risen through the ranks in the normal manner I would say Siuan without a doubt, but as it is Egwene may do more for the world than Siuan possibly could.  Of course she could still much worse as well.  That waits to be seen.