help-Moiraine TGH

[Blue]

In TGH Moiraine vanishes for a time and lan explains it to Rand as saying moiraine needs to be alone sometimes, does anyone know where she went/goes and why? Im firmly in the moiraine is not black ajah camp but her disappearence in TGH coincides with Ingtars and they return at roughly the same time. coincidence? Please help as i would really like an answer to where she goes and why she has to be alone.

 

Im sorry if this has been discussed before but everytime i do a re-read it gets my attention and i keep meaning to post it here. If there is a link to where this has been discussed before i'd be grateful or if not all theories welcome.

 

P.S. sorry about the spelling it never was my strong point.

[Gentled Ben]

Im firmly in the moiraine is not black ajah camp but her disappearence in TGH coincides with Ingtars and they return at roughly the same time. coincidence?

I think you can remain safely in that camp, and yeah, I think it was probably coincidence. Consider too, that she shows up in the dungeon at Fal Dara at the same time that Leandrin is hurting Rand, yet that seems to be coincidence, rather than an indication that Moiraine, like Liandrin, is Black Ajah.

 

I have no idea where she went, but the Aes Sedai take off and do their own thing from time to time. Most, if not all, of them do it, so it seems to be normal behavior for them. It's unlikely to be cleared up in the final book, so your best bet is to make up your own adventure for her if you can't get it to stop nagging at you.  :)

[GrandpaG]

I'm the only poster on DM who even considers the possibility that Moraine might have been at the meeting with the man called Bors.  She is painted to be some kind of do-good saint with only Rand's best interest in mind day and night.  Hog wash.  She was raised in nobility which makes her only semi-human to begin with (nothing personal if you happen to be royally born, poor soul)...in Carhein, the randland capitol of the Game of Houses.  For having this background, she comes across in New Spring as being slightly less than confident to me.  I expected her to act extremely arogant.  Maybe it's the novice/accepted thing that took her down a peg or three.  How do her contacts know where to find her when they're hiding in the mountains?  Why do trollocs seem to show up where she is at?  Would she kill a trolloc to keep from blowing her cover (they are expendable, right)?  If the lady with the cats can hide her black ajahness from the general public, why can't Moraine?  I'm not saying she's a darkfriend.  I'm saying it won't totally shock me to learn that the disappearing act with Lanfear was just that...an act.  Am I off subject?  Probably.  Doesn't matter.  It's just a story.  ::)

[Luckers]

Marillin Gemalphin never disguises her darkfriendedness in her own POV's however, whilst Moiraine quite clearly thinks about herself as a alligned with the Light. No, Moiraine is no darkfriend.

 

Her disapearences in tGH were a contrivence. She was attempting to convince Rand that she had no further interest in him. She explains it all to Suine when they meet in tGH.

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

I trust Moirane, *with caution*, but she's definitely one of the good guys

[oosquaiaddict]

A couple of thoughts on where Moirraine could have been.

 

1. She finds out about Tams history between the end of TEOTW and the start of TGH. She could have been off investigating this.

 

2. She was in Tar Valon. She passes on Land bond to Myrelle in Tar Valon. From her later POV's I getthe impression the reason she decided to pass the bond is to make sure Lan and Nynaeve can be together eventually. She also specifically says when she last left Tar Valon she passed her bond.

 

I dont think these are necessarily mutually exclusive, she could have been in Tar Valon finding abuot Tam and Kari.

 

 

[The Lost One]

I'm the only poster on DM who even considers the possibility that Moraine might have been at the meeting with the man called Bors. 

 

She was only at that meeting, pretending to be black ajah, to find out what the Shadow was up to. 

[Despair]

Honestly, Moiraine better be one of the good guys.  Otherwise, Rand is screwed.  Turn a page, find a new darkriend. If you want to concentrate on who might be a darklord, look at Verin.

[nashdude]

2. She was in Tar Valon. She passes on Land bond to Myrelle in Tar Valon. From her later POV's I getthe impression the reason she decided to pass the bond is to make sure Lan and Nynaeve can be together eventually. She also specifically says when she last left Tar Valon she passed her bond.

 

Don't think it was this, because she probably didn't even know that she was going to "die" until she went through the rings at Rhuidean. I believe the transfer happened shortly after returning to the "wetlands".

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I'm the only poster on DM who even considers the possibility that Moraine might have been at the meeting with the man called Bors. 

 

She was only at that meeting, pretending to be black ajah, to find out what the Shadow was up to. 

 

This was the first thing that came to my mind when I read tGH, and Im glad somone else thinks it is a possibility. :)

[Guest cwestervelt]

I'm the only poster on DM who even considers the possibility that Moraine might have been at the meeting with the man called Bors. 

 

She was only at that meeting, pretending to be black ajah, to find out what the Shadow was up to. 

 

This was the first thing that came to my mind when I read tGH, and Im glad somone else thinks it is a possibility. :)

 

Rand, Mat and Perrin would have survived to that point if Moiraine was Black.  They never would have made it out of the Two Rivers.  The Aies Sedai was most likely Liandrin getting her orders for the disposal of Egwene and Nynaeve.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I'm the only poster on DM who even considers the possibility that Moraine might have been at the meeting with the man called Bors. 

 

She was only at that meeting, pretending to be black ajah, to find out what the Shadow was up to. 

 

This was the first thing that came to my mind when I read tGH, and Im glad somone else thinks it is a possibility. :)

 

Rand, Mat and Perrin would have survived to that point if Moiraine was Black.  They never would have made it out of the Two Rivers.  The Aies Sedai was most likely Liandrin getting her orders for the disposal of Egwene and Nynaeve.

 

Would have, or wouldn't have?

 

Anyways, we aren't saying she is black, we're saying she could have been pretending to be black. Also, if I remember correctly, there were a few Aes Sedai there, and they can't all be Liandrin...

[bcxanth]

2. She was in Tar Valon. She passes on Land bond to Myrelle in Tar Valon. From her later POV's I getthe impression the reason she decided to pass the bond is to make sure Lan and Nynaeve can be together eventually. She also specifically says when she last left Tar Valon she passed her bond.

 

Don't think it was this, because she probably didn't even know that she was going to "die" until she went through the rings at Rhuidean. I believe the transfer happened shortly after returning to the "wetlands".

 

Moir tells Lan about how the Bond will pass to Myreele in tGH, long before she ever goes through the rings. She didn't set it up that way because she knew she was going to die. She did it because she knew her mission made the chances of it happening higher then normal and that she didn't want Lan to go to waste.

[RobertAlexWillis]

First of all, I don't see any possible way Moiraine could have found out about, much less gotten to, the meeting that Jaichim Carridin and Ingtar attended in the prologue of TGH.  The people attending that meeting had to have been brought in by gateway, by specific summons.  Moiraine would only get such an invitation if she were Black Ajah, and she could only be Black Ajah if she had sworn their Oaths on the Oath Rod.  Also, given the nature of the mental intrusion that Ba'alzamon subjected his people to at that meeting, I doubt that she would have been able to maintain her facade as a spy, even assuming the she managed the very unlikely accomplishment of finding out about the meeting, and getting to it.

 

Second, Moiraine did not go to Tar Valon in TGH.  She had already arranged for Lan's bond to pass to Myrelle upon her death (or stilling, although that was not her plan), probably before they ever went to Emond's Field in TEoTW.  She told Lan about it in the TGH ch 22, while she is in Arafel with Adeleas and Vandene.

 

I think, however, that the original question was referring to her short disappearance while they were all still in Fal Dara, before the Rand and Ingtar left to hunt the Horn.  In that case, she didn't really go anywhere, she was just ignoring Rand so that he would think she was no longer interested in him, just as Luckers said.

[reyler]

I sometimes wonder if Moiraine didn't have some sort of prior awareness of the future before the Rings or the Aelfinn. And I don't mean Min; her viewings are too frequently so vague as to mean nothing before the point comes. Something that, for story purposes, we don't know about yet.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I sometimes wonder if Moiraine didn't have some sort of prior awareness of the future before the Rings or the Aelfinn. And I don't mean Min; her viewings are too frequently so vague as to mean nothing before the point comes. Something that, for story purposes, we don't know about yet.

 

Let's not forget, when a novice becomes accepted they go through 3 rings of a ter'angreal, and though it is not real, it may have some reflections of the future. For instance, that is how Nynaeve knew she would marry Lan.

[algspkr]

2. She was in Tar Valon. She passes on Land bond to Myrelle in Tar Valon. From her later POV's I getthe impression the reason she decided to pass the bond is to make sure Lan and Nynaeve can be together eventually. She also specifically says when she last left Tar Valon she passed her bond.

 

Don't think it was this, because she probably didn't even know that she was going to "die" until she went through the rings at Rhuidean. I believe the transfer happened shortly after returning to the "wetlands".

The passing happened in/before TGH as she tells Lan about it when visiting Vandene and Adeleas, right before she was attacked by the Drakhar. 

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Why couldn't Moiraine pass the bond directly to Nyn?

[dmanmiller34]

mORIANE is definalty a good guy. Remember Min's veiwing that she doesn't want to tell Rand becasue she says that its impossible. It's something about sucsess at TG and a person who is dead that has to be there. THis strongly implies Morianne since everyone thinks she is dead but she is goingto be saved by Mat out of the tower just in the Nick of time to be preasent at TG. I think that she will allow Rand to burst with relief from the guilt he feels about her death. She was #1 on his list if i remeber right. ANd he'll cry i bet.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Why couldn't Moiraine pass the bond directly to Nyn?

 

The last time Moiraine was with Nynaeve, Nynaeve was only an Accepted (in the Stone, beginning of TSR).  Tower Law doesn't permit Accepted to have Warders.  So, Moiraine could not pass Lan to Nynaeve. 

 

Besides, Moiraine had made these arrangements with Myrelle before Lan and Nynaeve ever met, and Moiraine didn't see Myrelle at any time during the course of the story.  So, even if she had been willing to flout Tower Law (which I doubt she was), she probably couldn't have made the switch without being in Myrelle's presence.  Everything to do with bonding (except snapping it) requires all concerned parties to be in one another's physical proximity.

 

As for Moiraine's motivations, she explained them to Lan.

 

"I see my death in every day, as you do.  How could I not, with the task we have followed these years?  Now, with everything coming to a head, I must see it as even more possible."

 

(TGH ch 22)

 

This was not a case of forseeing exactly what would happen.  This was Moiraine's insurance policy, so that if she did die (or get burned out, as it turned out), Lan would not waste himself in a useless act of vengeance.

[oosquaiaddict]

Isnt there something right after that about a newly raised Aes Sedai needing a warder, and how Myrelle was only holding the bond temporarily, so she can pass it on to someone who would be more suitable? I understood this to mean Nynaeve. Also consider that in Salidar, Myrelle is looking to toughen Nynaeve up so that she can handle Lan as a warder. I dont think she has had much communication from Moiraine after, considering Siuan hadnt gotten any news from Moiraine, from the time Moiraine left her in Fal Dara to the time she was deposed, except for the news the Rand had taken Callandor.

 

I know none of this is definitive and I could be wrong, but I got the idea from that chapter in TGH, that Moiraine had done the passing of the bond, so Lan and Nynaeve can eventually be together.

[BrainFireBob]

In TGH Moiraine vanishes for a time and lan explains it to Rand as saying moiraine needs to be alone sometimes, does anyone know where she went/goes and why? Im firmly in the moiraine is not black ajah camp but her disappearence in TGH coincides with Ingtars and they return at roughly the same time. coincidence? Please help as i would really like an answer to where she goes and why she has to be alone.

 

Im sorry if this has been discussed before but everytime i do a re-read it gets my attention and i keep meaning to post it here. If there is a link to where this has been discussed before i'd be grateful or if not all theories welcome.

 

P.S. sorry about the spelling it never was my strong point.

 

Wait- are you talking about time immediately prior to the Amyrlin's arrival? If that's the case, Moiraine herself explains that she's been avoiding and ignoring Rand to keep him off balance and try to lull him, when she speaks to Verin and Siuan.

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Isnt there something right after that about a newly raised Aes Sedai needing a warder, and how Myrelle was only holding the bond temporarily, so she can pass it on to someone who would be more suitable? I understood this to mean Nynaeve. Also consider that in Salidar, Myrelle is looking to toughen Nynaeve up so that she can handle Lan as a warder. I dont think she has had much communication from Moiraine after, considering Siuan hadnt gotten any news from Moiraine, from the time Moiraine left her in Fal Dara to the time she was deposed, except for the news the Rand had taken Callandor.

 

I know none of this is definitive and I could be wrong, but I got the idea from that chapter in TGH, that Moiraine had done the passing of the bond, so Lan and Nynaeve can eventually be together.

 

That intimation is there, but is not becuase Moiraine knew what was going to happen.

 

When she originally made the arrangement with Myrelle, it was simply an insurance measure to make sure that Lan didn't waste his life if Moiraine got killed.  However, once they went to the Two Rivers and Lan met Nynaeve, Moiraine saw what happened, and used it to test Lan.  She asked him if his bond chafed, now.  Of course, we know how he responded.

 

However, I am sure that, when the Amyrlin left Fal Dara, among the messages Moiraine sent back to Tar Valon was one to Myrelle, which said, in essence, "If I die, there's someone specific to give Lan to now."  That person being Nynaeve, of course.  So when the bond was snapped, (after Moiraine tackled Lanfear through the arch) Myrelle knew to get Lan ready for Nynaeve.

 

So, a basic timeline:

 

Before TEoTW: Moiraine makes arrangements with Myrelle to have the bond pass to her, if Moiraine dies (or is stilled).

 

TEoTW: Lan meets and falls in love with Nynaeve.

 

Early TGH: Moiraine sends message to Myrelle letting her know that Lan is to be prepared for Nynaeve, should the bond pass to Myrelle.

 

Mid-TGH: Moiraine's conversation with Lan.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

RAW, isn't it possible that Moiraine expected Lan to fall in love with Nynaeve after Moiraine went through the 3-ringed ter'angreal in the Tower, and that this was simply confirmed when Moiraine met Nynaeve in real life? Remember, Moiraine has also said "I know who I will marry better than you." or something like that. It just makes me wonder if what she saw in the ter'angreal led her to the suspicion. Of course, she would need confirmation, because she couldn't be sure that what she saw would actually happen.

 

 

[Guest cwestervelt]

I believe Thom is generally accepted as the person Moiraine was referring to when she made the statement concerning the face of the person she would marry.  And that was most likely courtesy of Min when they passed through Baerlon in The Eye of the World.  That type of information is something that Min is very good at detecting.