What would you have started the show with?

[Blackbyrd]

This actually does hold some interest for me since I am with many people in thinking that the show did not really dig in from the get go.

 

I like the prologue- but I also like the idea of starting with the foretelling. I'll throw one more in for good measure. 

 

1- the prologue

The prologue of eye of the world is great stuff if somewhat confusing. Embracing the horror and unreal elements of it could have done quite a lot concerning the madness the taint. Just trim it down- keep some of the powerful moments- Ishamael healing Lews and Lews suddenly seeing everything he's wrought and the way Ishamael was nervous to do it for fear of what would happen. Lews Therin gateways out and screams his image fading out into - either the fade watching Rand, or into a one time Game of throne montage where Dragonmount mount spikes up and then map keeps changing and changing until- Two rivers. Where it starts as in the novel

 

2- the foretelling

Young Moraine and Siuan are walking together and gossiping about the Aiel war which they don't believe will reach them and also mention rumors that Gitara has been 'foretelling' a lot of stuff, some of it very meh. They get there and get schooled about how easily the aiel are moving through the nations and boom we get the foretelling and Gitara keeling over... Intro probably Rand and Tam

 

3- TV riff

They begin with the reds gentling Owen. And they definitely say his name... Fade into Thom getting off a horse and walking into the Winespring. He's grouchy so when one of the only patrons asks for a story he tells the story of the breaking of the world and all its menace... and then then you could actuality start from Edmond's field pretty well after the credit scene. 

 

If you have one that you like and can see the way it would go throw it in here

Edited June 12 by Blackbyrd

[Samt]

I think the foretelling was the way to go.  I would have included a lot of NS content in episode 1 as I think it would have been good television, given an opportunity for a more epic start, and also been more satisfying to book purists.

[WoTwasThat]

The foretelling is far too literal. That would have been a good flashback for some point later in the series.

 

The prologue is amazing for so many reasons because it shows the end of the Age of Legends and sets up the entire premise of the series: that Lews Therin, the Dragon, tried to imprison the Dark One, that he tainted his magic source in the process, that this drives every man who can channel insane, and, oh, by the way, the Dragon will be Reborn, doomed to the same madness, and will be both savior and destroyer. 
 

EFFING AWESOME. And if anyone is confused by that, guess what? It is all explained in the VERY FIRST EPISODE (had it been more faithful to the book) through the narratives of Moiraine and the crowd scene around Fain. And it will be explained AGAIN in the next episode from Ishy’s perspective in Rand’s first TAR dream sequence (had it been more faithful to the book).

 

If you don’t believe me, reread the first 100 pages of EOTW!! This was a LAYUP and they WHIFFED. 
 

Oh, and yes, you would do it exactly the way OP described, feeding the new Dragonmount into a way better title sequence with way better music. 

Edited June 12 by WoTwasThat

[Sabio]

I like the prologue but I just don't think it would've worked for the series.  Had they stayed closer to the book an opening scene of Tam and Rand heading to town and Rand seeing the Fade would've been a creepy way to start things.

 

The foretelling would've been a nice flashback for when Moiraine explains to him what he is or when SIuan was giving her speech before she died.

[king of nowhere]

the foretelling, by itself, wouldn't work. not when the people have no idea who this dragon is supposed to be. but i would have included it.

 

after prolonged discussion, i was convinced that a version of the book prologue could be used - provided that ishamael really cuts down on the flowery speech and lews terin cuts down on the madness answers. 

make it clear. you want to convey that there was the dark one, and the dragon sort of defeated the dark one, but caused the taint on saidin and went mad. oh, and some people were woring for the dark one. 

lay it out as straight as possible.

 

second scene, the foretelling. show gitara moroso with the foretelling. use conversation with moiraine and siuan to better hammer the whole reborn thing.

 

this couple scenes, in less than 10 minutes, should set up the foundation, and do it clearly.

now you can either make a montage sequence of moiraine traveling around the world looking for the dragon, or you can cut to the two rivers directly. but i'm imagining the montage sequence, and i'm liking it a lot. moiraine arrives in a village. talks with people, just a couple sentences shown. says to lan "he's born two weeks too late". strikes the name. jumps on the horse. repeat a couple times, then show increasingly shorter jumps of moiraine arriving in new villages and striking names. Until in the final cut, she arrives at emond field.

Edited June 12 by king of nowhere

[zacz1987]

I think they should have started with a brief telling of the history of the breaking via voiceover and some random scenes. Explain the drilling of the bore, the war of power, The 100 companions sealing the bore and the backlash of the taint then Lews madness and the breaking caused by the men. It doesn't need to be long or detailed but it would give enough background to aid the audience in understand what is happening. 

[Mailman]

Prologue 100%

 

Sets everything up wonderfully. The Dragon, Ishy, Shai'tan, the taint and the madness, the idea of rebirth, epic timeline.

 

[Sabio]

  On 6/12/2025 at 10:06 PM, king of nowhere said:

the foretelling, by itself, wouldn't work. not when the people have no idea who this dragon is supposed to be. but i would have included it.

 

after prolonged discussion, i was convinced that a version of the book prologue could be used - provided that ishamael really cuts down on the flowery speech and lews terin cuts down on the madness answers. 

make it clear. you want to convey that there was the dark one, and the dragon sort of defeated the dark one, but caused the taint on saidin and went mad. oh, and some people were woring for the dark one. 

lay it out as straight as possible.

 

second scene, the foretelling. show gitara moroso with the foretelling. use conversation with moiraine and siuan to better hammer the whole reborn thing.

 

this couple scenes, in less than 10 minutes, should set up the foundation, and do it clearly.

now you can either make a montage sequence of moiraine traveling around the world looking for the dragon, or you can cut to the two rivers directly. but i'm imagining the montage sequence, and i'm liking it a lot. moiraine arrives in a village. talks with people, just a couple sentences shown. says to lan "he's born two weeks too late". strikes the name. jumps on the horse. repeat a couple times, then show increasingly shorter jumps of moiraine arriving in new villages and striking names. Until in the final cut, she arrives at emond field.

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That is the big problem, 10 minutes of a 1-hour show setting up just what's going on?

[Mailman]

  On 6/13/2025 at 5:36 AM, Sabio said:

That is the big problem, 10 minutes of a 1-hour show setting up just what's going on?

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I am not saying time limitations are not a major issue but 10 minutes for set up is hardly excessive. It must also be remembered that the release was 3 episodes in one go so that is close to 3 hours, hiding a bit of extra groundwork in that timeframe is not as noticeable as the standalone releases.

[WoTwasThat]

  On 6/13/2025 at 5:36 AM, Sabio said:

That is the big problem, 10 minutes of a 1-hour show setting up just what's going on?

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Prologue would have taken 5mins tops. Perfectly appropriate for a cold open to the title sequence. 

[Sabio]

  On 6/13/2025 at 8:12 AM, Mailman said:

I am not saying time limitations are not a major issue but 10 minutes for set up is hardly excessive. It must also be remembered that the release was 3 episodes in one go so that is close to 3 hours, hiding a bit of extra groundwork in that timeframe is not as noticeable as the standalone releases.

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Time limitations and wasted time are some of the shows biggest issues, if they had to cut 10 minutes then they might not have been able to spend an entire episode to a warder who was going to die at the end.  Or toss Egwene into a river.

[king of nowhere]

  On 6/13/2025 at 10:54 AM, Sabio said:

Time limitations and wasted time are some of the shows biggest issues, if they had to cut 10 minutes then they might not have been able to spend an entire episode to a warder who was going to die at the end.  Or toss Egwene into a river.

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the warder that was going to die in the end was a good story, and it served a purpose to build up tension for when lan will be without bond. people who didn't read the books liked that arc.

 

tossing egwene in the river, on the other hand, was eminently pointless and should have been cut even if there was nothing else to put in its place.

[Bodewhin]

I didn't have a major issue with how the series started - the opening wasn't a pet peeve on mine. 

 

Since this is a wish fulfillment type of topic - pretending I was adapting WOT I might have started with something similar to Jackson's Fellowship of The Ring opening - a voiceover that briefly covers the Dark One being bound, and the creation of Dragonmount and the prophecy - then jumped to Rand and Tam on the road, Rand seeing the Fade and on to Emond's Field for Bel Tine.  It's not original, it's a standard fantasy intro, but would have allowed a quick setup.

[Kaleb]

  On 6/13/2025 at 3:16 PM, Bodewhin said:

I didn't have a major issue with how the series started - the opening wasn't a pet peeve on mine. 

 

Since this is a wish fulfillment type of topic - pretending I was adapting WOT I might have started with something similar to Jackson's Fellowship of The Ring opening - a voiceover that briefly covers the Dark One being bound, and the creation of Dragonmount and the prophecy - then jumped to Rand and Tam on the road, Rand seeing the Fade and on to Emond's Field for Bel Tine.  It's not original, it's a standard fantasy intro, but would have allowed a quick setup.

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I think they clearly wanted to avoid the comparison to LOTR (and the map intro of GOT for similar reasons), but I think it would have been a great choice. These things have become tropes because they work, audiences expect something like that and it helps them settle into a show, to help it feel real. I was in no way turned off by the way the show started (Moiraine's voiceover, Liandrin gentling a man, Egwene's Women's Circle ceremony), but I do think epic background exposition would have been better for those first 5-10 minutes.

Edited June 13 by Kaleb

[Jaysen Gore]

i hadn't really thought about it, but since this thread is about how I would have started it - and I wouldn't have had Rafe's agenda - I would open it with the Blood Snow with Tam, then cut to the Foretelling intro'ing Moiraine / Siuan, then roll the opening credits. No mystery for the audience, a dead seer showing why the Dragon being reborn is so terrifying, and then cut to black.

 

Out of the credits, have a moving camera track over the terrain in a breezy sort of fashion until it comes across Rand and Tam heading to the Two Rivers and seeing the Fade. If you wanted to play a mystery up, have the wind stop when the boys are sitting at a table outside the Winespring, instead of the walk in, and have them each talk about seeing a stranger in a cloak - it avoids the Nazgul in the Shire visual.

 

I then would probably move Liandrin's gentling intro to episode 3 after Egwene / Moiraine / Rand talk about who Aes Sedai are going into Shadar Logoth, and saves the first major One Power display for Moraine on Winter's Night. it also needs to happen before Logain gets intro'ed

TV isn't like books and movies; audience's need linear because of the time gap between the first and last episode isn't measured in hours, it's measured in months. 

 

This isn't about "fixing" what I don't agree with Rafe on - fixing Mat, Perrin, and Maxsim - just moving stuff around to create a more linear story to hook the audience in the characters first, and deal with the world building later

[Turin Turambar]

I think the problem with epic historical montage is that it would be expensive for the screen time. Multiple scenes, some with significant CGI might have been cost prohibitive for the first season. I mean you would have to depict the bore, some battles where cities were destroyed, the sealing, some of the breaking, and the actual creation of dragonmount. That is a lot of things for 5 minutes of screen time. 

 

I mean if they tried to go cheap it would turn off a lot of people. I just think it would have been too expensive. 

[Bodewhin]

  On 6/13/2025 at 11:10 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I think the problem with epic historical montage is that it would be expensive for the screen time. Multiple scenes, some with significant CGI might have been cost prohibitive for the first season. I mean you would have to depict the bore, some battles where cities were destroyed, the sealing, some of the breaking, and the actual creation of dragonmount. That is a lot of things for 5 minutes of screen time. 

 

I mean if they tried to go cheap it would turn off a lot of people. I just think it would have been too expensive. 

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I think you could easily achieve something within a budget, with a voiceover, even something a tad animated and abstract like the art seen in the Amazon series S1 theme song would have worked imo. I honestly don't see that type of opening requiring 5 mins even, probably closer to 3 mins. Look at the opening of the animated  Avatar: The Last Airbender - that was simple, quick and informative. 

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

They would have gotten destroyed if there was a animated start to the "live action" Wheel of Time. The only chance they MIGHT have gotten away with it would be to comtrive someone reading a history and going Harry Potter 3 brothers story stylee.

[Bodewhin]

  On 6/14/2025 at 8:09 AM, Turin Turambar said:

They would have gotten destroyed if there was a animated start to the "live action" Wheel of Time. The only chance they MIGHT have gotten away with it would be to comtrive someone reading a history and going Harry Potter 3 brothers story stylee.

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Isn't the topic just a wish fulfillment subject? 'How would you have started the WOT?' not like, this wouldn't work because of this example etc. To my understanding, the topic isn't 'how should the showrunners have started the Amazon WOT?' - it's 'how would you - if you were making an adaption - start it'?

 

Like I said, the start of the show with Moiraine and Lan searching for the Dragon was not a major problem to me - I didn't mind it (next to my far bigger gripes) so I wasn't answering from that standpoint. However...

 

Personally, in this imaginary question context - I would have started WOT with some type of quick setup and a voiceover - that's just my wish fulfillment starter (I would use that any way that fit a budget for the imaginary adaption - be it stained-glass and tapestries in the White Tower, scenes or what have you).  The concept of a voiceover setting up the story appeals to me. I prefer a more classic approach that has worked in various media all over the board - because, it's at once easy to relate the story to a fantasy retelling which is ultimately what imo WOT should be.

Edited June 15 by Bodewhin
clarifying

[Turin Turambar]

You do you. That's fine. I'm just saying that I feel some of the things have seemed unrealistic or maybe impractical to actual create.

 

Thinking about this led to a question about the prologue of EotW. Now I understand that Ishy was only partly trapped and managed to get out occasionally but isn't it rather convenient he was able to so early to be able to mess with Lews Therin? 

[Bodewhin]

It's convenient - the way most plot devices in fiction are. xD

 

But there's some good explanations for how it happens in the books - if I'm putting together the facts correctly:

 

The bore is metaphysical place that touches the pattern itself. Unlike the other Forsaken, Ishamael was only partly bound which allowed him to touch the pattern and effect the physical world, I believe the indication is that he was only able to do this every 1000 years or something? Like, the only two instances we see this is the prologue and then later but that doesn't mean he wasn't doing it every however many hundred or thousand years. That's my understanding. 

 

He also had access to the True Power, so maybe that played a role as well. 

[Cipher]

I actually love the cold open with the reds chasing the mad channeler. It is good world building, sets up the audience with a lot of questions, and shows the madness.

 

But for the sake of the series the prologue would have been best.  I wish they could have used Logain as the distraction, “we are hunting Ta’veren and female channelers, because the Dragon (Logain) has been reborn and we need heroes.”  Don’t drop the Logain arc until the episode 6 or 7.

[Bodewhin]

  On 6/16/2025 at 7:18 PM, Cipher said:

But for the sake of the series the prologue would have been best.  I wish they could have used Logain as the distraction, “we are hunting Ta’veren and female channelers, because the Dragon (Logain) has been reborn and we need heroes.”  Don’t drop the Logain arc until the episode 6 or 7.

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I think this could be a really cool choice. Utilizing Logain more is definitely something I could get on-board with - especially because of his emerging arc in the books and how he becomes more important. I find Logain super interesting to invest time into. 

[Cipher]

  On 6/16/2025 at 7:22 PM, Bodewhin said:

I think this could be a really cool choice. Utilizing Logain more is definitely something I could get on-board with - especially because of his emerging arc in the books and how he becomes more important. I find Logain super interesting to invest time into. 

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Actually when I read EOTW I didn’t read critically and didn’t realize Rand was the DR—in my novice high fantasy reading.  I knew he was the protagonist, but figured he and the Dragon were different people.  I need to read it again and see how blind I was. I would like to listen to Rosamund Pike’s reading.

[WoTwasThat]

  On 6/16/2025 at 7:28 PM, Cipher said:

Actually when I read EOTW I didn’t read critically and didn’t realize Rand was the DR—in my novice high fantasy reading.  I knew he was the protagonist, but figured he and the Dragon were different people.  I need to read it again and see how blind I was. I would like to listen to Rosamund Pike’s reading.

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I wonder if Rosamund was like “WTF this is totally different than the show” when she was reading TEOTW? If I ever meet her I’ll ask LOL.