S3E8 - He Who Comes With The Dawn

[Vambram]

https://www.wotseries.com/2025/04/17/full-spoiler-review-for-season-3-episode-8-of-the-wheel-of-time/

[Pandemonium]

I still need to rewatch this, but how did Moiraine know that Suian died?  They weren’t bonded were they?

 

another thing I noticed was the show didn’t use the full intro sequence in episode 8 unlike season 2 episode 8.  

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 4/17/2025 at 6:42 PM, Pandemonium said:

I still need to rewatch this, but how did Moiraine know that Suian died?  They weren’t bonded were they?

 

another thing I noticed was the show didn’t use the full intro sequence in episode 8 unlike season 2 episode 8.  

Expand  

My guess - the personal oath at Moraine's banishment created a woven connection between the two women; I'd have to go back and check

 

[Skipp]

  On 4/17/2025 at 6:42 PM, Pandemonium said:

I still need to rewatch this, but how did Moiraine know that Suian died?  They weren’t bonded were they?

 

another thing I noticed was the show didn’t use the full intro sequence in episode 8 unlike season 2 episode 8.  

Expand  

Moiraine's oath to Suian, made on the Oathrod, disolved on her death is what I presume the showrunners wanted us to take from the scene.

[Jaysen Gore]

I watched it; thought it was a good conclusion to the season, and covered the stuff I was expecting to be covered. It was too rushed - as always their season finales are crammed, but that ship has sailed

 

The good

Pretty much Rand's entire time with the Aiel. Rushed, and not as impactful as we'd like, but well done.

For the most part, Mat / Min with the Red Arch

Nynaeve breaking her wall, anmd a really good special effect on the parting of the Red sea

Tom / Elayne - forget the menagerie and straight to the civil war

Melindhra's death. I'm not sure what moment in the book this is setting up, but it was a cool thing.

Sammael's outcome; good tactical outcome, and I did enjoy Rahvin's metajoke about leaving him recognizable.

Siuan's outcome - the scene was great, it sets up Elaida as a nasty piece of work (and I'm okay with the Finn being the foretelling source instead of her own gift as it was in the book) it cuts out a major plotline, and it reinforces what I said yesterday - I' almost positive that we're losing Salidar root and branch. And given the Camelyn civil war and the closeness to TV, I expect they''ll base the rebellion in the 2R.

 

The bad

Nynaeve not needing saving  by anyone. Of course

Min saving Mat - - again, Women > men, but whatever, Rand's busy

Moiraine / Lanfear's duel in the desert; bad tactics, and bad power impact of the Sarkanen. And of course Moraine gets impaled with minimal impact.  PEople really need to learn to gloat over corpses, and not dying people

 

The speculation - assuming the money people fix this

No Salidar - Egwene's revolt is right against the tower directly (season 7)

Not sure Thom's dead - if not, I can see him taking Jain's place with the Finn on the rescue. Which will happen in Tear, with the fire door, but with the audience knowing there's another way in.

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/17/2025 at 6:53 PM, Skipp said:

Moiraine's oath to Suian, made on the Oathrod, disolved on her death is what I presume the showrunners wanted us to take from the scene.

Expand  

The fact that they showed the oath rod scene probably means you are correct, even though it doesn’t make a ton of sense.  It’s a trope you see in shows and movies where a loved one just somehow “knows.”

[Mirefox]

I really wish they had given Rand vs. Couladin more time and had gotten into the visions.  They certainly played it up as if they were going to, and Rhuarc especially acted like Rand was going to go too far, and then they essentially just went right to the rain.  One-upping Couladin was a great moment in the books and it also showed how Rand fulfills the prophecy of “breaking” the Aiel.  Yelling “oathbreakers” didn’t have that same impact.

[Jaysen Gore]

oh yeah, and I agree with someone who said that the likelihood is that Moraine = Cadsuane

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/17/2025 at 7:02 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

Melindhra's death. I'm not sure what moment in the book this is setting up, but it was a cool thing.

Expand  

This is likely merging several characters and tossing them in front of Lan.

One which is that DF character from New Spring, and Intgar's redemption arc that we didn't get in season 2 all rolled up in to Melindhra as an exposition vehicle to tell the audience more about Lan's background and culture to potentially drive the scene we better get that involves Nynaeve dropping Lan off in the middle of nowhere...

 

  On 4/17/2025 at 7:02 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

For the most part, Mat / Min with the Red Arch

Expand  

People be shipping Mat and Min because of this, but dudes... that wasn't a kiss, and Mat just be horny.

 

  On 4/17/2025 at 7:02 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

Siuan's outcome - the scene was great, it sets up Elaida as a nasty piece of work (and I'm okay with the Finn being the foretelling source instead of her own gift as it was in the book) it cuts out a major plotline, and it reinforces what I said yesterday - I' almost positive that we're losing Salidar root and branch. And given the Camelyn civil war and the closeness to TV, I expect they''ll base the rebellion in the 2R.

Expand  

I don't think we're losing Salidar. Or rather, Salidar may become the Fish Hut.

Note: We see the Mirror in the Amyrlin's room get moved, and we know that links to said fish hut.

I think what we're going to lose, is Egwene getting captured on the boat turning the chains to Cuendillar.

I think instead, she's going to get captured inside the tower, after going through the mirror. She might be trying to turn the chains from inside the tower, I don't know. Or some other purpose, but this could be a Season 5 thing.

I honestly would have liked it better if they decapitated Moiraine. Not a big fan of losing Valda, Loial and Siuan all in one season.

 

  On 4/17/2025 at 7:02 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

Not sure Thom's dead - if not, I can see him taking Jain's place with the Finn on the rescue. Which will happen in Tear, with the fire door, but with the audience knowing there's another way in.

Expand  

There's lots of people going on about how Rand being in a relationship with Elayne, Aviendha, and Min is all kinds of "icky and wrong", but it's "fine" if he's in a relationship with Elayne and Aviendha, and that's totally not a Haram either, but it is if Min is there.  So now they're shipping Mat and Min.

 

So here's an idea.

 

Min = Jain Farstrider.

Way back in Season 1, when Egwene was talking about her favorite book, she referred to Jain Farstrider as a she.

Min is apparently already far travelled. She's been to Tanchico already apparently.

 

Given that, why can't she be Jain Farstrider? And why can't Jain Farstrider be a Pen Name? And why can't it be a Pen Name that can be passed down from one Jain Farstrider to the next?

Look at Jain Farstrider's "arc" in the books, and compare it to Min and her connection to Ishamael and Liandrin? There's a case here to be made that she can replace Jain Farstrider... and now you have your 3 for if Mat and Thom ever go into the Tower.

 

Now we just have to push Moiraine and Lanfear into the doorway in tear next season...

[Yamezt]

Overall I enjoyed the episode.

 

I liked Siuan being killed and being defiant to the end - Interesting that they declared her a dark friend - Elaida did something similar in the books with Egwene and then punished her to the extent of drawing blood - there were questions about Elaida's oath.

 

I would love to know what goes in Moiraine's head - A pity TV isn't a great medium for that - "I saw myself die a thousand times after a thousand times in this gorgeously splendid dress in the middle of the dessert. If I die, I shall look as splendid as I did in my visions." Priorities ❤️ I wonder what Moiraine was doing channeling in the dessert. This is the second(?) time she has done this now - training to master Sakarnen?

 

Moiraine vs Lanfear - it briefly reminded me of a video of someone who animated Scarlet Witch vs Phoenix (for those who don't know, 2 overpowered characters in marvel). And someone commented something like "they are so over-powered they resort to slapping and fists when all else fails". I did like Lanfear trying to strange Moiraine - it feels in character for a jealous vindictive forsaken.

 

Yay, Nynaeve block is gone - though a pity we didn't see the Mog show-down

 

Love Sevanna and her outfits.

 

Oh - the only outfit I didn't like was Elaida's headgear - but suits Elaida's poor tastes and penchant for gaudiness.

 

Enjoyed Min/Mat and Elayne/Thom interactions

 

  On 4/17/2025 at 2:28 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Then, Moiraine with help from the magic rock was able to build a strong shield on him.

Expand  

Sammael's shielding - I have no issues with Moiraine shielding him with a Sa'angreal - but am I the only one who assumed Lanfear shielded him? 😅She did plan this with Moiraine and to have Sam a teacher. In the books she did do the shield on Asmo.

 

Was hoping to catch sight of the Bowl of the Winds - even if they don't intend to go with the storyline - but it is quite a hard bowl to create as a set. Pretty sure I didn't see it - if anyone did, please do tell!

 

Guesses for the future assuming renewal (hopefully!)

-Moiraine - I guess she would play Cadsuane's role moving forward? Makes sense why Shohreh Aghdashloo was cast as Elaida when she is a fan favourite for Cadsuane. I do like her a Elaida.

 

-Alanna/Maksim - So I previously thought Moiraine would die and Lan would transfer to Alanna. If Moiraine is playing Cadsuane, perhaps beside being a composite of Myrelle/Alanna, she might also be Merise. Wouldn't surprise me if Maksim become an Asha'man (composite with Narishma).

 

-We're not sure if Leanne was stilled. I assume she would play the role of mentor for Egwene. Or maybe forgotten. Would love to see the actress some more.

 

-I wonder if Liandrin would end up playing Elza's role in wearing the Domination band. Would Mog play Semi's role in that too?

Edited April 17 by Yamezt

[Ralph]

  On 4/17/2025 at 2:20 PM, Mirefox said:

Moiraine shielding Sammael is 100% what is wrong with the garbage-tier writing on this show.  In Season 1, we had something like 8 Aes Sedai keeping a constant shield on Logain, Moiraine included.  Skip two seasons forward and Moiraine just casually drops that, by the way, she can now tie off shields and subdue a Forsaken.  Not earned, not explained, just written that way because that’s how the writers want it.  

Expand  

I assumed Lanfear did it and were just pretending was M 

 

Edit: Sorry Yamezt hadn't yet read until the end. 

Edited April 17 by Ralph

[Mirefox]

  On 4/17/2025 at 9:13 PM, Ralph said:

I assumed Lanfear did it and were just pretending was M 

 

Edit: Sorry Yamezt hadn't yet read until the end. 

Expand  

A show shouldn’t ask you to make up your own wild assumptions like this, though.  

[Ralph]

  On 4/17/2025 at 9:41 PM, Mirefox said:

A show shouldn’t ask you to make up your own wild assumptions like this, though.  

Expand  

Only a book should? 

[A Memory Of Why]

Enjoyed the episode more than I would have expected considering it appears to have the most changes this season, still..

 

Finland baby! Was put off in the first scene, i don't know if it was the costume, angles or movement but the fin reminded me of the monster from IT and I could help but think of it as a clown. Was over it by the next scene, that was fantastic 👏 

 

Balefire 😲, now that was super cool but.. didn't like how it kinda crumbled the roof, it's supposed to be like a hot knife through butter, also didn't like how Elayne held it on her before the effects happened. The visual of the rewriting the past was cool.

 

Nyn breaking her block, quite enjoyed that. Shame it wasn't closer to the books though.

 

Rand channellers the rain.. firstly, didn't like his dance, that was silly. Much cooler when he was standing in the middle of his channelling looking ominous. Interesting parralel with Mo and lanfears channeling and how much more impressive his was, is it just me or does there look like there was more taint in his weaves?

 

Mo vs Lanfear.. could have been cooler, it didn't feel like Moraine was using a world shattering item. Lanfear was obviously using the true power (it was purr black for gods sake), which makes sense with her standing up to Moraine, heck I still feel like Lanfear could have easily won here.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the books Rand comments the true power is as strong as the Choedan Kal.

 

Moggy is just amazingly creepy, right at the top of my list of favourite forsaken. Her taking out Sammael was interesting, loved the visuals, like she was weaving blood. I wonder if he'll come back as a certain dagger, i could see them having fun with him as Dashiva, forbidden revenge and forced to help Rand and his conquering and wars could be fun.

 

Overall a far better ending to the season, I was hoping for a fun AoL cold opening and a cool, surprising end scene but I'm happy with ominous Rand.

Edited April 17 by A Memory Of Why

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/17/2025 at 10:45 PM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

Balefire 😲, now that was super cool but.. didn't like how it kinda crumbled the roof, it's supposed to be like a hot knife through butter, also didn't like how Elayne held it on her before the effects happened. The visual of the rewriting the past was cool.

 

Nyn breaking her block, quite enjoyed that. Shame it wasn't closer to the books though.

 

Moggy is just amazingly creepy, right at the top of my list of favourite forsaken. Her taking out Sammael was interesting, loved the visuals, like she was weaving blood. I wonder if he'll come back as a certain dagger, i could see them having fun with him as Dashiva, forbidden revenge and forced to help Rand and his conquering and wars could be fun.

 

Overall a far better ending to the season, I was hoping for a fun AoL cold opening and a cool, surprising end scene but I'm happy with ominous Rand.

Expand  

I thought the delay was just the pattern processing removing a life from the pattern and then figuring out how far back it had to erase. I see what your saying about the ceiling. I'll have to watch again. I was thinking it might be that the stone work around what vanished crumbled due to lack of support. The way it went back together was really cool though. 

 

Nyn breaking her block was great. Moggy is wickedly creepy.

Slightly unhinged Rand was better than the potential new forsaken reveal. 

[baalsmistress]

As much as I liked Siuan, there really is nothing left in the story that she is needed for. I liked that change - though I should admit that I found Elaida leaving her alive in the books frustrating. I generally find it frustrating where villains in stories overpower, capture, then leave alive to escape, their opponents.

 

When Moirraine was channelling in the desert, my thought was she was providing a shield against Lanfear travelling into the area. Forcing Lanfear to engage her, rather than directly striking at Rand. Lanfear also wanted to since Rand had, in her eyes, rejected Lanfear and chosen to remain with Moirraine. 

 

You're not the only one who assumed Lanfear did the shielding on Sammael. I assumed that too, just as Lanfear shielded Asmodean in the books.

 

We know that Semirag (sp?) is around in the background, probably with the Seanchan. It could be either one, but for sure Moghedian is dying along the way.

 

All in all, I *LOVED* this episode. The worst part of having watched it is not knowing yet if Season 4+ are happening. If anyone from the production team is reading this - consider this a plea for another 4 seasons.

 

  On 4/17/2025 at 8:19 PM, Yamezt said:

Overall I enjoyed the episode.

 

I liked Siuan being killed and being defiant to the end - Interesting that they declared her a dark friend - Elaida did something similar in the books with Egwene and then punished her to the extent of drawing blood - there were questions about Elaida's oath.

 

I would love to know what goes in Moiraine's head - A pity TV isn't a great medium for that - "I saw myself die a thousand times after a thousand times in this gorgeously splendid dress in the middle of the dessert. If I die, I shall look as splendid as I did in my visions." Priorities ❤️ I wonder what Moiraine was doing channeling in the dessert. This is the second(?) time she has done this now - training to master Sakarnen?

 

Moiraine vs Lanfear - it briefly reminded me of a video of someone who animated Scarlet Witch vs Phoenix (for those who don't know, 2 overpowered characters in marvel). And someone commented something like "they are so over-powered they resort to slapping and fists when all else fails". I did like Lanfear trying to strange Moiraine - it feels in character for a jealous vindictive forsaken.

 

Yay, Nynaeve block is gone - though a pity we didn't see the Mog show-down

 

Love Sevanna and her outfits.

 

Oh - the only outfit I didn't like was Elaida's headgear - but suits Elaida's poor tastes and penchant for gaudiness.

 

Enjoyed Min/Mat and Elayne/Thom interactions

 

Sammael's shielding - I have no issues with Moiraine shielding him with a Sa'angreal - but am I the only one who assumed Lanfear shielded him? 😅She did plan this with Moiraine and to have Sam a teacher. In the books she did do the shield on Asmo.

 

Was hoping to catch sight of the Bowl of the Winds - even if they don't intend to go with the storyline - but it is quite a hard bowl to create as a set. Pretty sure I didn't see it - if anyone did, please do tell!

 

Guesses for the future assuming renewal (hopefully!)

-Moiraine - I guess she would play Cadsuane's role moving forward? Makes sense why Shohreh Aghdashloo was cast as Elaida when she is a fan favourite for Cadsuane. I do like her a Elaida.

 

-Alanna/Maksim - So I previously thought Moiraine would die and Lan would transfer to Alanna. If Moiraine is playing Cadsuane, perhaps beside being a composite of Myrelle/Alanna, she might also be Merise. Wouldn't surprise me if Maksim become an Asha'man (composite with Narishma).

 

-We're not sure if Leanne was stilled. I assume she would play the role of mentor for Egwene. Or maybe forgotten. Would love to see the actress some more.

 

-I wonder if Liandrin would end up playing Elza's role in wearing the Domination band. Would Mog play Semi's role in that too?

Expand  

 

 

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 1:13 AM, baalsmistress said:

As much as I liked Siuan, there really is nothing left in the story that she is needed for. I liked that change - though I should admit that I found Elaida leaving her alive in the books frustrating. I generally find it frustrating where villains in stories overpower, capture, then leave alive to escape, their opponents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

Book Elaida was a villain, but not evil, per se.  She was harsh, and very misguided, but I was fine with her leaving Siuan alive.

[Sabio]

Not the worst episode but really nothing stood out to me as great.  I don't mind changes but they seem to be just going all over the place with things.  I didn't hate it, but I don't see a reason to watch is again.

[DreadLord31]

My thoughts in no particular order: 

 

1) “They be trying to do too much again, da pacing be weird” - Domon’s voice in my head.

 

But overall not bad - definitely the best season yet & the least bad season finale. 
 

2) The only reason you set up Sammael as a teacher and then immediately kill him is if … 

  Reveal hidden contents

Asmodean is the finale forsaken and you’ve now introduced the idea that Rand should have a Forsaken teach him 

3) The Chosen continue to steal the show (I hope they win in this turning!) 

 

4) I thought Semirhage was perhaps combined with Alviarian - now that can’t be the case. 
 

5) Matt and the Redstone doorframe, foxhead medallion, Min playing Rands part verbatim from the books. Eeek. 
 

6) Balefire was cool! Thom and Elayne are my favorite protagonists in this turning? Weird. Didn’t like either of them in the books. 
 

7) Off with Siuans head?! I’m ok with it. 

 

8.) Both Lanfear and Moiraine surviving?! I’m not ok with it. Seriously? I really think they average 2 fake-out deaths an episode! 
 

9) Rand/Couladin and the Aiel - pretty cool - wanted to see them fight though! 
 

10) Nynaeve’s “Moses moment” - thought it was kind of cheesy. Wanted to see her fight Moggy - so was disappointed there. 
 

Overall, they’ve improved each season. So hope we get a season 4!!! 

[Mirefox]

Going in to this, I’m sure many of us heard that it was going to be “controversial.”  Of the three season finales, this one was by far the least controversial and if that statement was about Siuan, good riddance.  She wasn’t all that likable; she wasn’t all that impressive a leader; she didn’t seem to have much use going forward. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:21 AM, DreadLord31 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

8.) Both Lanfear and Moiraine surviving?! I’m not ok with it. Seriously? I really think they average 2 fake-out deaths an episode! 
 

 

Expand  

 
This is seriously the second time in two seasons Lanfear has had her throat slit.  It really is unreal…

[DreadLord31]

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:23 AM, Mirefox said:

Going in to this, I’m sure many of us heard that it was going to be “controversial.”

Expand  

What I find “controversial” is NOT killing Lanfear & Moiraine. And I don’t like that part. We need to move on from them to develop Rands other relationships. 
Rosamund Pike isn’t that big of a deal that Moiraine can’t be killed. 

Edited April 18 by DreadLord31
Clarification

[Mirefox]

  On 4/18/2025 at 2:27 AM, DreadLord31 said:

What I find “controversial” is NOT killing Lanfear & Moiraine. And I don’t like that part. We need to move on from them to develop Rands other relationships. 
Rosamund Pike isn’t that big of a deal that she can’t be killed. 

Expand  

While I agree, that’s always something that can be done later.  It should have happened but ah well.

[Mirefox]

Did Lanfear heal herself this episode?  That’s a no-no.

[Mailman]

The whole episode was basically confusion on steroids. I'm not even sure of exactly what happened in big chunks so some of my queries are going to be all over the place.

 

Firstly Moiraine knows how to tie off shields now. The only tied off weave I am aware that she was in proximity too was a saidan one so it was no help to her. If the shield was a gift from Lanfear as soon as Rand broke with her the first thing i amagine she would do is take Sammael away from Rand.

 

Sammael left behind totally unguarded?  Why would you have not taken him with you? Is he dead? 

 

Elaidia accuses Siuan of being a DF is this a violation of the 3 oaths does she truly believe this. What was the purpose of the Elaidia being healed by Siuan scene with a grey man a couple of episodes ago now.

 

Lanfear wanting to physically kill Moiraine I can understand but the woman obsessed with power not taking possession of the most powerful Sa'angreal at the first opportunity is ridiculous.

 

Moiraine a strong channeler in possession of the strongest Sa'angreal in history is not stronger than Lanfear seems unlikely.

 

Did we ever get an in show reveal that Thom had told Elayne about his history?

 

The whole Gaebril reveal felt amazingly rushed.

 

Elayne has instant and perfect control of the unpredictable balefire rod?

 

Liandrin actually held the box with the collar in her hands and threw it away but is then able to track it to Nyn out the front of the building? Nyn not even bothering to hide a little bit just stands out in the open waiting despite knowing that the BA was present.

 

Nyn not even out of breath after exiting the water?

 

Lan willing to be stabbed my Melindrha staking his life on a DF not stabbing him seems incredibly risky. So DF's now insta die on changing sides.

 

While this is the most extras we have seen in the show it hardly looked huge. 

 

Rand unaided seems to have affected scenes across the world. 

 

Losing the clan chiefs one by one stepping forward to declare for Rand is almost a criminal choice.

 

I don't want to watch it again but honestly trying to follow what the hell happened is nigh impossible.

Edited April 18 by Mailman