Lets talk about The Consolidation =)

[twinflower]

 

If the main resentment is the communication issue, then it really isn't about not having the boards...why not resolve your real problems and then move forward to making this work out?

 

and honestly..all the complaints about the move...even if it had been known..most of the complaining would still have taken place.

 

As to the orgs putting it to a vote..*sighs*  some members will vote no.  Does that mean they will be banned from that Org when it splits or still get to participate with them in thier unaffiliated place?

[JenniferL]

Have you guys seriously had trouble with admins interfering with your boards here? I know we never have...

except for being relegated to a child board, our post count turned off, and being told that were a useless waste of space, that basically and quite litterally doesnt count and threatened with the whole board being deleted - just because we were airing our views ..if thats what you call none interference yeah

 

I missed this before. I'm not sure why you feel offended by those things, except for the board deletion, which I apologized for. I was cranky from wrestling with an unfamiliar admin panel that day. Post counts don't grant you special privileges at DM. In fact, we discourage posting for the sake of posting on most boards. Many boards have been made child boards of other boards. None of the regular visitors to Debates and Discussions are complaining about being a child board.  If you're still unhappy a month from now, we can revisit it, but I advise you to be open minded.

[F Horn of Valere]

barmy.. though 6 months is misleading. It will probably be august before we can even begin to think about getting something to work, and it will take a lot longer to actually make it happen. Jan 1st is all fine and dandy, but I hope when orgs haven't been able to transfer yet due to technical issues, that an extension will be made.

[JenniferL]

barmy.. though 6 months is misleading. It will probably be august before we can even begin to think about getting something to work, and it will take a lot longer to actually make it happen. Jan 1st is all fine and dandy, but I hope when orgs haven't been able to transfer yet due to technical issues, that an extension will be made.

 

If that happens, then yes, there will be an extension. But we chose that date because we were hoping to have all the issues solved by then.

[Muirenn]

I just wanted to note that I am keeping up with this thread, so any RPers (or potential RPers! ;)) that have questions/concerns, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.  I'm sure that Owen will also be along shortly to answer any questions. :)

 

In response to how the RP feels about this, the response is mixed.  Four Divisions are either ready, or nearly ready to transfer everything back on site.  Several others only have nominal offsite boards that aren't often used and will likely close them down well before the deadline.  And there are two in particular who have voiced strong objections.

 

It's also interesting to note that at least in the RP, it seems that those who have been at DM for about 5 years or more are *much* more excited about the move and see it as a positive.  For many of us in that group, we were around when DM was one huge site with no off boards and the RP and Community were one unit.  So for a lot of the RPers, this is a homecoming of sorts.  So naturally, we are quite excited about the possibilities.  The RP also had a recent shakeup when all of our RP boards were put back onto DM proper.  So we've had much more recent exposure to this sort of major shakeup than the Orgs have.  The other major difference in the group that have been around for at least five years is that they've been through at least one major DM Breaking, likely more than one, so they know that this happens at DM every few years.  It's been a while since the last major DM shakeup like this, so I can totally understand that some of the (comparatively) newer members are upset.  Trust me, eventually you'll accept that Jason is like unto a force of nature and as Jhae so perfectly put it, the rest of us are just along for the ride. :)

 

-Muirenn

FL Group Leader, DRPSW

[Mendorah]

 

And Mendorah, Corki is more upset about how the org leaders weren't involved. They knew it was coming, just it was a total shock when it suddenly happened.

 

That's the part I don't get, I guess.  If it was known to come down the pike, then it's not really a surprise.  The timing might be a surprise, but the idea isn't a surprise.  And since Jason is God of DM, then he pretty much decides the when and how and like Cleo already said.  We're just along for the ride.

 

I understand a little resistance to change.  That's normal.  But I have to say I'm a bit surprised at the level of offence taken over this change.  We're simply consolidating.  We're not getting rid of Orgs or changing the entire purpose of the site.

 

 

[Barmacral]

FHorn- Then consider it advance notice. Which is what it is. And 5 months is a lot of time to transfer offsite boards, especially considering that they managed to transfer most of DM in something like a week. This process would just be far smoother than the last one.

[Segurant]

Allow me to give you a recap on the History of DM and its Breakings....

 

DM has changed several times since its inception back in 1998.  After each change which we will now refer to as Breakings, people came and people went.  Sometime the changes weren't executed properly, or the changes, which were for the better, were not welcomed becausre people were stuck in their own ways.  An exodus occurred and people were predicting the end of DM.  DM still managed to thrive.  I've know people to go out and create their own site, mirroring everything DM does and they fail.  Some come back to DM others not.  Whatever the situation, DM is still here.  DM still managed to thrive.

 

For one, the current staff is lucky that I am no longer the Community Admin.  Kathana is working with you, not against you.  I wouldn't have given it a thought to say "Hey we are consolidating the boards."  If you ask to talk about it, my reply would have "Sure, we are consolidating the boards. End of discussion."

 

Remember DM is here for fans of the Wheel of Time to enjoy discussions about the books with people that share the same interests.  No one is forcing people to come here and post.  If you choose to be a staff member for DM, you are working for the community of DM.  If you feel that you are being treated unfair, let's talk about it.  If you still feel that this move is not for you, move on.  If you move on, then you are saying that I don't want to follow the rules of DM, then guess what, you'll be removed.  Being a Staff Member is not a right, it is a privilege you get, you earn.  I wish I never gave it up but RL needs my attention from time to time. Again, Kathana is being more patient with you then I would have.

 

Jason has worked hard in putting DM together by getting ads for revenue, becoming a contact for Robert Jordan, and by providing us a server and ISP to have a place we call home.  DM is the reason a lot of are here.  I for one applaud Jason for making the decision to consolidate DM's boards to one location.  It will  make navigating easier for those who are members of multiple orgs.  The decision was a bit sudden and Kathana notified everyone the minute she found out.  So why are people blaming a lack of communications?

 

For those who don't want to move, it has been a pleasure knowing you.  I do hope you come a visit from time to time and see how your former Org is thriving in this new change. :)

 

 

[JenniferL]

 

And Mendorah, Corki is more upset about how the org leaders weren't involved. They knew it was coming, just it was a total shock when it suddenly happened.

 

That's the part I don't get, I guess.  If it was known to come down the pike, then it's not really a surprise.  The timing might be a surprise, but the idea isn't a surprise.  And since Jason is God of DM, then he pretty much decides the when and how and like Cleo already said.  We're just along for the ride.

 

I understand a little resistance to change.  That's normal.  But I have to say I'm a bit surprised at the level of offence taken over this change.  We're simply consolidating.  We're not getting rid of Orgs or changing the entire purpose of the site.

 

 

 

It happened with the Org/RP split too. Jason said for years "Run your Org like RP is going to disappear tomorrow." I was the only one who listened back then, which meant the WT survived the split much better than the other Orgs.

[JenniferL]

 

For one, the current staff is lucky that I am no longer the Community Admin.  Kathana is working with you, not against you.  I wouldn't have given it a thought to say "Hey we are consolidating the boards."  If you ask to talk about it, my reply would have "Sure, we are consolidating the boards. End of discussion."

 

Not only am I nicer than you, I'm much prettier and I'm better cook.

[Corki]

 

And Mendorah, Corki is more upset about how the org leaders weren't involved. They knew it was coming, just it was a total shock when it suddenly happened.

 

That's the part I don't get, I guess.  If it was known to come down the pike, then it's not really a surprise.  The timing might be a surprise, but the idea isn't a surprise. 

 

Technically, no-one bar the Staff were to know of the move. We were even specifically told not to tell anyone. At the middle of June, the status of the move was "planning stage". And if any member wants to disagree with that state of fact, I am more than happy to show you otherwise.

[Segurant]

It happened with the Org/RP split too. Jason said for years "Run your Org like RP is going to disappear tomorrow." I was the only one who listened back then, which meant the WT survived the split much better than the other Orgs.

 

Oy! you weren't kidding either.

[JenniferL]

 

And Mendorah, Corki is more upset about how the org leaders weren't involved. They knew it was coming, just it was a total shock when it suddenly happened.

 

That's the part I don't get, I guess.  If it was known to come down the pike, then it's not really a surprise.  The timing might be a surprise, but the idea isn't a surprise. 

 

Technically, no-one bar the Staff were to know of the move. We were even specifically told not to tell anyone. At the middle of June, the status of the move was "planning stage". And if any member wants to disagree with that state of fact, I am more than happy to show you otherwise.

 

Is this the post, Corki?

 

As I've hinted, we're getting new forums this summer.  We've looked at several options and we've finally agreed that we'll be upgrading to Simple Machines. This will give us new features that are missing in phpBB2.X, our current set up.

 

Here is a listing of the new forum's features:

http://www.simplemachines.org/about/features.php

 

I'm not sure how much of this will be immediately available to us, but I do know that we'll be using the child boards feature pretty heavily. Those of you that are members of multiple Orgs and/or the RP are going to see a HUGE difference. The new forums will also be RSS enabled, which will mean that the DM news, OurCommunity and Jordan's blog postings will be MUCH easier for forum dwellers to access.

 

We're not sure when the move will happen yet.  First, we're finishing moving DMail from Everyone.net to Google.  This is almost done. Then we'll start getting ready.  Our goal is to have us moved onto the new forums completely by August 1st.  Once we have a more solid timeline, we'll make it known to the community at large.  This is just a general heads up so you know what's in the works.

 

You weren't barred from discussing it with your staff, just from making big announcements regarding it.  The time line ended up being shorter than I anticipated, but we still successfully installed the new boards and moved over the majority of the posts from the old database.

[Auld Manriva]

The only thing we aren't compromising on is whether or not this move is going to happen. It IS happening. We are trying to make it as easy on ya'll as possible. We  are doing our best to make you comfortable with it.  But if you are dead set against it, well, I'm sorry. We don't have much to talk about.

 

This is typical of the wrongheadedness in the way that this entire issue has been handled...

 

If civilized thinking individuals not enthralled with their own power had  had been in control,none of this would be happening.

 

You people are just amazing! Why in heaven could you not just start your bloody new boards and SHOWN us what they could do? If they prove to be all that and a new pair of Nike's, then the offsites would have most likely moved here on their own..

 

But no.. You are not capable of that sort of thought process. You know better than anyone else, and heaven help anyone who disagrees.. This is just incredibly juvenile. It is also Twin why I for one spend most of my time at The Bands Proboards site. Had there not been the Band and the people who took me in there and made me comfortable, which I found nowhere else on this site by the way, I would not still be with DM today.

 

Can this move work? most likely.... But it could have been done much more easily with a tiny, miniscule bit of thought

[Corki]

Kath - that is not the post. Let me just get what was said now.

 

Early on (i.e. June 11th), Matalina said this:

Once we have a more solid timeline, we'll make it known to the community at large. This is just a general heads up so you know what's in the works.

 

On 12th June, you said:

I wouldn't let anyone know about it yet. This is a planned move, not a site crash the way we normall handle upgrades. We've had complaints for quite awhile that we're using outdated boards and we're addressing them.

 

Once we have a timetable for the move that's firmer than "Before Kathana starts her new job", we'll pass the word along to everyone so we can get ready.

 

On 13th June, fader said:

Since Jenn has to go an ruin the surprise...

 

To re-iterate what Jenn said, there are plans now, but they're just as likely to change as to stay the same so discussing them isn't exactly fair.

 

So whoever mentioned this to anyone, shouldn't have done.

 

Then the move occured suddenly, with no timetable other than a few hours, if any.

[Segurant]

why doesn't everyone accept the move and work towards getting this done as smoothly as possible so we can move on?

 

We know this is going to happen whether people want to move or not so why fight it?  It is not like an exception is going to be made for anyone.  Also this bickering is counterproductive.

[Matalina]

And WHY is a change of boards necessary for people to discuss?  Did you consult your org about which boards to use when you moved offsite?

 

This is how it went.

 

There was an admin discussion about what boards to use.  When final decision was made the staff was made aware.  Jason decided he had time, so he installed said software.  Then proceeded to transfer the data over to the new boards.  Since doing so was relatively successful he felt it was a good enough time as any to move to the new boards. 

 

No warning was given to anyone at all other than this is what is probably going to take place.  It was handled rather poorly but as it was a successful move, no one lost any data, it's all nice and sitting pretty on the old boards, it just didn't move over.  If we weren't allowing access to the old boards you can say it was a failure but we are letting you and it is indefinate for the moment as to their length of tenur to stay on this server.

[JenniferL]

Corki, no matter how many old emails or posts we both dredge up, it's not changing the fact that the offsite boards at DM are closing. You cannot win this. It is not an argument. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by how suddenly things were announced, but this is not a constructive use of your time. 

[Segurant]

Kath - that is not the post. Let me just get what was said now.

 

Early on (i.e. June 11th), Matalina said this:

Once we have a more solid timeline, we'll make it known to the community at large. This is just a general heads up so you know what's in the works.

 

On 12th June, you said:

I wouldn't let anyone know about it yet. This is a planned move, not a site crash the way we normall handle upgrades. We've had complaints for quite awhile that we're using outdated boards and we're addressing them.

 

Once we have a timetable for the move that's firmer than "Before Kathana starts her new job", we'll pass the word along to everyone so we can get ready.

 

On 13th June, fader said:

Since Jenn has to go an ruin the surprise...

 

To re-iterate what Jenn said, there are plans now, but they're just as likely to change as to stay the same so discussing them isn't exactly fair.

 

So whoever mentioned this to anyone, shouldn't have done.

 

Then the move occured suddenly, with no timetable other than a few hours, if any.

 

Which is all a moot point as Jason, you know the guy who owns this site, said back on July 1, 2007 that we are changing to the new boards.

 

Here is the link.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17560

[Swisstony]

Ok, there are 8 pages of this thread already, so I may be repeating something that somebody's already said - if I am, just ignore what I say.  :)

 

I spotted a comment on the first page of posts that said that a lot of people rarely visit DM any more anyway.  That may be true of members on the Comm side of DM - I don't know, I'm not involved with side, and I have to say (probably to my shame) that I've never totally understood it.  I guess it could be that because it is (or seems to me, at least) to be a lot about social networking, and being part of a community (which is a Good Thing), it's easy for Comm side stuff to take place on offsite boards and not at DM.

 

The RP side is, however (if I've got my understanding of the Comm side right), completely different.  We exist to write RPs, and we do this on the RP boards on DM.  We may do a lot of our planning and record-keeping and stuff offsite, fair enough, but every single active RP-side member visits DM on a regular basis, because this is where our RP boards are.  We don't do any RPing, which is what we exist for, on our offsite boards (at least, we don't at the WT), so as far as I can see, forcing RP Divisions to shut down their offsite forums and do everything on DM won't actually increase our visiting to DM at all, because we do it anyway.

[JenniferL]

Ok, there are 8 pages of this thread already, so I may be repeating something that somebody's already said - if I am, just ignore what I say.  :)

 

I spotted a comment on the first page of posts that said that a lot of people rarely visit DM any more anyway.  That may be true of members on the Comm side of DM - I don't know, I'm not involved with side, and I have to say (probably to my shame) that I've never totally understood it.  I guess it could be that because it is (or seems to me, at least) to be a lot about social networking, and being part of a community (which is a Good Thing), it's easy for Comm side stuff to take place on offsite boards and not at DM.

 

The RP side is, however (if I've got my understanding of the Comm side right), completely different.  We exist to write RPs, and we do this on the RP boards on DM.  We may do a lot of our planning and record-keeping and stuff offsite, fair enough, but every single active RP-side member visits DM on a regular basis, because this is where our RP boards are.  We don't do any RPing, which is what we exist for, on our offsite boards (at least, we don't at the WT), so as far as I can see, forcing RP Divisions to shut down their offsite forums and do everything on DM won't actually increase our visiting to DM at all, because we do it anyway.

 

You would be visiting it more often. Not just post RPs, but to plan them. It will raise our ad impressions and generate more revenue for the site, in addition to being more convenient for your members.

[Segurant]

Hey Swisstony,

 

wouldn't having it all on one site be easier than going back and forth?  Just asking  ;D

 

By the way,

 

I'm just in this thread for the debate, I have membership in Orgs that do not use offsite boards (except for the BT) so this really doesn't affect me, I just like a good arguement.

[twinflower]

no manny, if the activities of the Band, and the interaction of the people you enjoy being with at the Band, were all at DM, that is where you would have been.  Because it was at the offsite that's where you were.  That's why most of the Band is at the offsite..it's where all the activity is and everyone hangs out. They would have made you comfortable on DM Band boards if all that was at DM.  

 

 

[JenniferL]

You know, I do understand why this upsets people.  The offsite boards feel like home. You are comfortable there. It's familiar and all your friends are there.  I understand that we're asking you to give up something important to you. I think if our positions were reversed, I might be just as angry.

 

But so many people have said that they think this is a good thing. They are looking forward to the move. I've actually had to tell Orgs that I can't move them right this second.  You've got literally months before you HAVE to move. Why not wait a bit and see how it works before deciding that you hate it and it will never work?

[twinflower]

switching gears a tad bit, Kath I have a question...

 

the old DM boards are going to be closed down, will they still exist as an archive or be deleted?  What happens then to the info that didn't transfer?