WoT Season 2 Episode 6: Eyes Without Pity

[A Memory Of Why]

3 hours ago, Windigo said:

Actually the fight with Matt vs Galad and Gawwyn was in the middle of book 3 The Dragon Reborn, Chapter 24 (of 56) , so there was a chance we could have gotten it in season 2, but also could be season 3 and still align with the books

 

What's the chances Matt notices Rand and Lans "confrontation", joins in and puts Alannas Warders in their place?

[Finnssss22]

3 minutes ago, A Memory Of Why said:

 

What's the chances Matt notices Rand and Lans "confrontation", joins in and puts Alannas Warders in their place?

 

I think Mat is going to follow them and then be the one that sneaks in and helps Rand escape to go help his friends in Falme.

Should be interesting regardless. 

[Ralph]

21 minutes ago, A Memory Of Why said:

 

What's the chances Matt notices Rand and Lans "confrontation", joins in and puts Alannas Warders in their place?

someone said it is in s3 in caemlyn, in which case may well be against gawyn and galad

Edited September 26, 2023 by Ralph

[DreadLord31]

I think the “hero” or “power” or even just “endearing” moments that stick out in my memory, so far (both seasons), are:

 

1) Moiraine kills the Trollocs on Winternight and gets injured doing it. 

2) Nynaeve escapes and single-handedly kills a Trolloc and then tracks the group down to rescue them 

 

3) Nynaeve Power explodes and heals everybody before they die

 

4) Nynaeve Power explodes and protects everybody in the Ways

 

5) Egwene & Nynaeve almost die in a circle that uses their immense power to level the whole Trolloc horde in the Gap. 
 

6) oh, one I forgot, but would count - Thom “sacrifices” himself against a Fade so that Matt & Rand could get away 

 

7) Nynaeve testing in the arches 

8.) Egwene fighting back vs. Seanchan to protect her friends 

9) Avi kicking WC butt 

 

 

 

[DreadLord31]

7 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I need you to define your terms. What do you mean by "heroic"? And do you differentiate it from nobility (not the economic kind, the moral kind)?  

i like your thinking; however, YOU define heroic or noble, I’d just like to hear (and maybe even be reminded) of what you think the show has done to get the audience to say “heck yeah” about any of the male characters (besides #TvThom who is my favorite character in the show thus far). 

[Elder_Haman]

16 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

i like your thinking; however, YOU define heroic or noble, I’d just like to hear (and maybe even be reminded) of what you think the show has done to get the audience to say “heck yeah” about any of the male characters (besides #TvThom who is my favorite character in the show thus far). 

Rand melted a fade. He also stood up to Ishy and made the correct and noble choice to reject the vision promised him at the Eye. 
 

Perrin intended to sacrifice himself for Egwene, which was a noble choice. He had some pretty good shots at Trollocs in Emonds field before killing his wife. 
 

Lan’s fight against the Fades was impressive (albeit undercut a bit by Moiraine dispatching the first one so easily). 
 

Masema was a whirling dervish!! I literally oohed and ahhhed during that fight. Uno and Ingtar also fought very well. 

[DreadLord31]

49 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Lan’s fight against the Fades was impressive (albeit undercut a bit by Moiraine dispatching the first one so easily). 
 

Masema was a whirling dervish!! I literally oohed and ahhhed during that fight. Uno and Ingtar also fought very well. 

I think if they hadn’t edited Lan’s fight weird and if I could figure out how to get the lighting in night shots better —that was definitely suppose to be Lan’s moment. I know from the interviews & bonus content that Henney put in a ton of work & it was a longer scene than what they gave us. So that’s too bad. Because I agree that that was suppose to be LAN’s big moment. And I think it would have been much better as a directing/writing choice to just have him win & not get cut up and need saving from Verin/Tomas. Then we would be going — dang, Lan is hard-core. 
 

That’s true, and my favorite moment of this season was the Shinarans fighting. Though that too was undercut by having the fight follow Perrin. But that is Perrin’s best moment entirely IMO. Because I did forget that he quasi rescues Loial & goes a bit beast mode in that fight. Good moment. Thanks for the reminder on that one! 

[DreadLord31]

58 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Rand melted a fade. He also stood up to Ishy and made the correct and noble choice to reject the vision promised him at the Eye. 
 

Perrin intended to sacrifice himself for Egwene, which was a noble choice. He had some pretty good shots at Trollocs in Emonds field before killing his wife. 

Rand got his butt kicked trying to sword fight a Fade … and are we sure that Lanfear didn’t melt that Fade?

 Regardless, I wasn’t especially impressed with that. 
 

I think that choice - Perrin fridging his DF wife - was, not good. Not good at all. Opposite of “heroic” — but, I suppose it did show that he’s a brutal fighter if he lets loose. 
 

I do miss TvThom - I liked him. Anybody heard confirmations we get him back in S3?? 

[Elder_Haman]

37 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

are we sure that Lanfear didn’t melt that Fade?

100%. 
That was the moment she pretended to be afraid of him. 

 

38 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

I think that choice - Perrin fridging his DF wife - was, not good. Not good at all. Opposite of “heroic” — but, I suppose it did show that he’s a brutal fighter if he lets loose.

I didn’t love the choice either. But I understand it. And it accomplished what it was meant to. 

[DigificWriter]

Laila was not a Darkfriend. That theory was unequivocally debunked by both Rafe and the actress who played her - of their own volition - shortly after Leavetaking aired.

 

Elyas trying to get Perrin to fully embrace being a Wolfbrother doesn't suddenly give said debunked theory any more validity than it had two years ago when it was debunked.

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

 

I do miss TvThom - I liked him. Anybody heard confirmations we get him back in S3?? 

yes

[DaddyFinn]

8 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

1) Moiraine kills the Trollocs on Winternight and gets injured doing it. 

Perrin kills a bunch, Rand kills one, Tam tried to protect Rand, Mat went outside to get her sisters to safety, other men were seen in the background fighting alongside women, Lan kicks ass. Those are in S1E1 but sure, there's no heroic moments for men in the show.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

There is also that Nynaeve in the show needed a bit of attention. Certainly not saying I would not have done it differently, but book Nynaeve shows the morning of Beltine that she is as hard as nails - flying about while exhausted, being a veritable Florence Nightingale of hygiene and effectiveness, looking at Tam and kindly telling Rand he is as good as dead, take him away now, and off again to the next patient. 

 

Moiraine in some scenes reaches this kind of zen effectiveness and ruthless emotional control, but she is not as emotional as Nynaeve to start with, very few other Aes Sedai, some Borderlanders? In the books I think this allows Nynaeve to show petulance as we know when the mess hits the fan she has it under control. Though, imo, RJ kind of looses control of that a bit and leaves Nynaeve a bit of a joke through most of the books, but I guess we can put that down to exaggeration for comic effect.

[Luckers]

Its not going to happen but the blonde damane they've had pointing dramatically at marath'damane being Alivia and an early insert show v books who maybe gets scooped up in whatever freedom is going to happen would be a fun way to continue deepening the book topic v the show.

 

Its a new turning you never know...

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

6 minutes ago, Luckers said:

Its not going to happen but the blonde damane they've had pointing dramatically at marath'damane being Alivia and an early insert show v books who maybe gets scooped up in whatever freedom is going to happen would be a fun way to continue deepening the book topic v the show.

 

Its a new turning you never know...

As someone pointed out in another thread the damane is named in the credits (or whatever that Xray thing is) and her name is Miri.

[Luckers]

5 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

As someone pointed out in another thread the damane is named in the credits (or whatever that Xray thing is) and her name is Miri.

Ah true. Yeah, I'm casually reontroducing myself to the information available. Poop tho, woulda been fun.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Luckers

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

1 minute ago, Luckers said:

Ah true. Yeah, I'm casually reontroducing myself to the information available. Poop tho, woulda been fun.

Totally agree 🙂

[Luckers]

Just now, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Totally agree 🙂

Lets agree that her sul'dam has to be Seta. *nods firmly* haha

[DaddyFinn]

Or Miri is her damane name and Alivia true name

[ilovezam]

13 hours ago, A Memory Of Why said:

What's the chances Matt notices Rand and Lans "confrontation", joins in and puts Alannas Warders in their place?

That would hardly have the desired impact though, we have never seen Alanna's Warders being shown as capable fighters of any sort

[DreadLord31]

4 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Perrin kills a bunch, Rand kills one, Tam tried to protect Rand, Mat went outside to get her sisters to safety, other men were seen in the background fighting alongside women, Lan kicks ass. Those are in S1E1 but sure, there's no heroic moments for men in the show.

A hero is defined as: “a person who demonstrates exceptional courage, nobility, or strength in the face of adversity.” According to AI, anyways. 

Word I key in on there is exceptional. So unless it stands out as above and beyond what others are doing (in courage, power, and nobility) it’s not a “hero moment”. 

 

So the Matt one would be the only one that would somewhat qualify there since it’s specifically contrasted with his garbage parents just saving themselves. 
 

In all of the others, there isn’t “exceptional-ness” since they’re equaling the courage of their women and girls. And with the Tam, a lot of people (myself included)—when episode 2 came out, in particular, we’re a bit ticked that Nynaeve contrasted with Tam — Tam, a blademaster, can’t take 1 Trolloc with a heron marked sword. And Nynaeve, with a knife - can. 
So NOW the show has given us nothing to believe that blademasters are exceptional swordsmen. The blademasters we’ve seen A) are incompetent compared to Nynaeve with a knife & B) are in a mental institution & afraid of loud noises
 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by DreadLord31

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

14 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

That would hardly have the desired impact though, we have never seen Alanna's Warders being shown as capable fighters of any sort

They are gaidin, Morgase's whelps were just students. And also in the books the whole point was not their ability but the fact that the women were ogling them. Putting Mat against two warders to help out Rand would be making it much more difficult (Gawyn is taken out before he realises that Mat is any kind of a threat) and more heroic. 

[Luckers]

14 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

They are gaidin, Morgase's whelps were just students. And also in the books the whole point was not their ability but the fact that the women were ogling them. Putting Mat against two warders to help out Rand would be making it much more difficult (Gawyn is taken out before he realises that Mat is any kind of a threat) and more heroic. 

I mean... yes theres a bit of this. But theres also a bit of that and a bit of the other thing...

 

In the books Mat winning was mostly about RJs understanding that popular expectations regarding a fight is unreliable. Yes everyone expects the prince with the sword to win, but whos the best gaidan and how was he defeated? Jearom, and by a farmboy.

 

As for ogling... the worst Galad had to expect was waking up bonded to a green... and that was sorta a joke maybe

[Elendir]

17 hours ago, Finnssss22 said:

 

The problem with the boys is for the first 3 books is Mat isn't even supposed to be that likeable and not really even a full character until after his healing in tDR, Perrin is a dear in the headlights and Rand is basically a lost puppy for 1&2 and then a runaway puppy in book 3.

Book 4 is when the 3 of them start to branch out and really step into their own shoes.

 

It is very superficial assessment.

Rand character was built during first 2 books. RJ needed to show who he was, before he became dragon and became mad.

Friends, he made then supported this "shepherd" not dragon.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Elendir

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, ilovezam said:

That would hardly have the desired impact though, we have never seen Alanna's Warders being shown as capable fighters of any sort

 

depends if the point is for Mat to be shown as being a better fighter than two capable fighters, which is quite unrealistic, or whether the point of the episode is not to underestimate people. 

 

but anyway any two professional soldiers/bodyguards should be assumed more than capable of defeating a farmboy