WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[Guire]

38 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

you get the point. she used the power as a weapon, despite it not being the last extreme to defend her life - she could have used it against the soldiers, but not the boats that hadn't even noticed her.

I am assuming power rules will be fast and loose at this point.  So scope and distance of channeling will probably be a looks good on TV thing.  I would have prefered Mo cut weaves.  Damane target Mo and tower.  Egwene and Mo blast ships.  Ishy target Rand and Egwene. Angry babysitter Nyn momentarily block Ishy. Wolf Perrin try to physically attack distracted Ishy with Captain America shield Uno gave him. Nyn shield fail almost immediately. Elayne and Egwene throw everything they have at Ishy while Rand steps through and guts Ishy while channeling massive screen encompassing, burn out my eyeballs level of one power.  Nyn heals barely conscious Rand while Elayne cradles him in her arms.

[EmreY]

4 minutes ago, Guire said:

I am assuming power rules will be fast and loose at this point.  So scope and distance of channeling will probably be a looks good on TV thing.  I would have prefered Mo cut weaves.  Damane target Mo and tower.  Egwene and Mo blast ships.  Ishy target Rand and Egwene. Angry babysitter Nyn momentarily block Ishy. Wolf Perrin try to physically attack distracted Ishy with Captain America shield Uno gave him. Nyn shield fail almost immediately. Elayne and Egwene throw everything they have at Ishy while Rand steps through and guts Ishy while channeling massive screen encompassing, burn out my eyeballs level of one power.  Nyn heals barely conscious Rand while Elayne cradles him in her arms.

 

I would have preferred that, TBH.

[Mirefox]

I honestly can’t think of a show where the in-show lore is so inconsistent and so often misused as a plot device.  Episode 8 just confirmed so much of what is wrong with this show.

[Guire]

18 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I honestly can’t think of a show where the in-show lore is so inconsistent and so often misused as a plot device.  Episode 8 just confirmed so much of what is wrong with this show.

They are playing by TV rules.  Can we make it entertaining and emotionally engaging enough to not care about rules and consistancy.  Its "Whose Line is it Anyway" where the pounts dont matter.  And oddly enough a recent US presidential election.

[fra85uk]

4 hours ago, Mirefox said:

Season 1 was a 3/10, this season is a 5/10.  Better trash is still trash.  The effects, sets, acting, etc. were generally better this season.  The writing is still mediocre to borderline incompetent.

I would rise by a point on both seasons.

Again, as bookreader I feel that I am missing the opportunity to see in live-action some of the most iconic moments of the books and I am quite sure there will be no other adaptation in the near-future.

Detaching myself from the books, I am trying to see it as a different version but honestly, as a show itself, I don't see it being great either, it has way too many issues. However, the technical part has been improved. 

 

 

[MarcusM]

So I asked my spouse (non book reader) what she thought of the series so far and here is what she thought.

 

Better than Witcher. Worse than GOT (9/10). And maybe on par with the Shadow and Bone. So a 7/10.

 

VFX is ok.

 

The pattern is not really needed. The age of legends doesn’t really add any value. What is missing is character building. It’s difficult to believe some parts of the story.

She really likes Natasha and Fares.

 

Among our heroes her favorites are Perrin and Nynaeve. They are likeable and feels authentic.

 

She held a long speech about Egwene. She didn’t like at all that she killed Renna. Seemed out of character. The relationship building between Renna and Eg was not sufficiently explored. Renna wasn’t all evil and didn’t deserve to die. Maybe she somehow even could’ve helped Eg out of the collar? Anyhow, it wasn’t authentic character building that Eg. Killed Renna.

 

Also, on Rand. How on earth was he able to use his magic so easily and kill all these men (Turok and Co). He was just moments before having huge troubles doing something. Seemed out of character and not properly explained.

 

She liked the old Mat actor way more than the new.

 

Liandrin was “great”. Moiraine she felt was too much stuck in the middle. Could she not be either even more of principles or even more likable and trustworthy?

 

I thought her reflections quite interesting. Somewhat aligned, yet very different to my own as a book reader.

 

14 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

I would have preferred that, TBH.

Please please, please! Can we have you replace Rafe?

 

On 10/5/2023 at 12:38 PM, Ralph said:

 

assumed skipping and possibly the aiel will capture the castle in Falme instead

Nah. We will see Tear at some point. Rand needs Callandor. But no, the prophesies of Tear falling to aiel will be skipped for sure. We will never see Be'lal. He was pretty useless after all.

[Joe B]

Am I wrong in hoping for less Moiraine going forward? If so, why?

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

Rand needs Callandor

I'm telling you. Callandor = Bowl of the Winds. No Tear.

[fra85uk]

Not wrong, her subplot was the worst part of S2 and honestly Rosamund Pike acting was way below her standards.

But she is producer of the show...so she will stay central.

[bojesphob]

Afternoon, all. Just finished the last episode of the show for this season, and figured it had been a long time since I was on here, I'd stop in and drop some thoughts into the thread. I'm an old school fan of the series, and was on here a bit back in 2012 when Memory of Light was released. Can't remember if I was on much before that, but I do still have a few posts from back then LOL

 

Anyhow, a little background: I started with reading about the time book 4 came out. I have read the first 4 books 11 times through, and each book after that one less time (I reread the entire series each time a new book was released, and reread the entire series again after finishing Memory of Light). I played the PC game when it came out several times. I have a signed copy of Knife of Dreams from Robert, and a signed version of Memory of Light from Brandon. My hope, though, is that when I say what I say, I'm not mentioning any of that to say that I have some sort of ownership of the series, or that my opinion is the only one allowed, I know there are strong feelings both ways about this, just like any other adaptation that's ever come out.  I'm going to "spoiler" my longer piece here so you don't have to read all of it if you don't but you're free to if you'd like.

 

Spoiler

With that out of the way, I was concerned when they said they were going to do Wheel of Time as a series, much as I was about the Rings of Power series, and much as I have been about a myriad of other book adaptations. I wanted the Golden Compass to be good. It was not (at least nowhere near the source material). The same with Eregon. Or even the Shinara (sp?) TV series. They took a vague premise from the source material and just made everything else up as a way to make money while spending as little as possible, and the end results were all lackluster and forgettable. When the Lord of the Rings movies came out, I decided that I was going to go into those movies with the goal of letting the filmmakers tell the story the way that they were going to tell it, and enjoy the story how they envisioned it. I came out of those movies excited, because I knew that they did what even the cartoon wasn't really able to do, which was to care about the characters and really get people involved in the story, even those who would have never read the books. I found that the things that were changed or omitted didn't bother me, because I let them decide how to tell the story in that form, and my expectations didn't go unfulfilled as I had none to begin with. While I did wish some things were included (that in LotR's case the extended versions fixed a lot of), and they changed some things, I loved every minute of them because I didn't just have to rely on my imagination to see the story being told, I could actually see it being told. His Dark Shadows was now the same way, not a scene for scene, word for word remake of the books, but exceptionally enjoyable and completely blew away Golden Compass. Eragon.... I wish they'd redo that one... I did luck out, however, because I didn't even start reading Game of Thrones until well after the second season was out, so I had nothing to compare against. I enjoyed it, for the most part, until the second half of the last season, but, well, you could tell Martin had no idea what he wanted for the ending, and what the producers came up with was... well let's just say a severe letdown from the rest of the show. But, having gone back and read a lot of the books since, the TV series, while close to the books, was more of a loose translation like Lord of the Rings and His Dark Shadows.

 

That's a long introduction for me to just say....

 

I can say there are several things I haven't liked about the WoT series. The burning out thing at the end of Season 1 bothered me at Tarwin's Gap, although I do understand why they had the Aes Sedai doing it instead of Rand. Loial being stabbed by the dagger and being ok (of course, since having been acknowledged as being a mistake because of the COVID stuff going on, which now doesn't bother me as much). At first I also had an issue Moiranne not being able to channel after the end of S1, but S2 rectified that for me. What I have found is that even though there are some things I would have done differently, I am enjoying the series. I knew there were going to be massive changes. I also knew there were going to be things added that I might not like. I also knew there would be things omitted that I didn't like not being there. And when I accepted that and decided to let the show runners tell the story and leave my expectations out of it, I realized that I am getting to see a version of the story that I spent hundreds of hours pouring over in the books. Not exactly the same, and to be honest, I'm rather glad it's not the same (I couldn't imagine how boring books 9-10.5 would be on television o.O). The major beats of the story are there, but in a different order and some in different forms. I actually teared up a little bit at the end of this last episode because, while it was different than what I had envisioned from reading, it brought the story to the same point in the books at Falme.

 

Again this is all my own personal journey with it. It's easy to bring in expectations that are either unachievable or just wouldn't work in a real sense in the medium of television, and a few times I had to smack around the voice in my head that wanted to bring my expectations into the fray when all it would do was reduce my enjoyment of what the show is.

 

Whether you enjoy it or not is completely up to you. Whether the show meets your expectations, also, is up to you. Rafe and team are making the story that they know how to make, and are trying to do so with the limitations placed on them, and from what I can tell are trying to do so with as much reverence to the source material as they can muster and still work within the constraints that they have. Many other properties can't say the same. I mean, we could have a Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider level bad for this, or Shinara, or Golden Compass. But, we have far better than that.

 

I will admit, though, it's not perfect, and as they get better at their story telling, it will also improve. I mean, I already feel Season 2 is FAR better than Season 1, and I enjoyed Season 1. I love the casting, and boy was Moghedien creepy at the end of this last episode! Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine, but even with GoT's and how well it was done, this is the only attempt we'll probably ever get to see this in live action, for good or bad. My thought is, why not enjoy it for what it is, then to not enjoy it for what it isn't? Anyhow, I may join in on some of the more in depth discussions at some point when I have time, as I do miss having plot discussions on here!

[Vartija]

It's weird, I think season 2 was a big improvement overall from season 1, but on a personal level I'm more annoyed and kind of demoralized with the series now than I was after S1. That's mainly because of Rand's arc. I'm just disappointed with his lack of development. The meeting with Siuan really pulled the rug from under him - I hated that scene so much it's making me not want to rewatch the season. Then he again did less than I hoped in the finale. I was hoping S2 would be his breakthrough but instead it feels like two seasons worth of making him a lesser character than his book version. I miss the growing arc I'm not seeing in show-Rand.

[Mirefox]

20 minutes ago, Vartija said:

It's weird, I think season 2 was a big improvement overall from season 1, but on a personal level I'm more annoyed and kind of demoralized with the series now than I was after S1. That's mainly because of Rand's arc. I'm just disappointed with his lack of development. The meeting with Siuan really pulled the rug from under him - I hated that scene so much it's making me not want to rewatch the season. Then he again did less than I hoped in the finale. I was hoping S2 would be his breakthrough but instead it feels like two seasons worth of making him a lesser character than his book version. I miss the growing arc I'm not seeing in show-Rand.

Rand has no development.  He drifts from scenario to scenario seemingly befuddled as to why he’s there.  He severs all attachments after season 1 so that he doesn’t hurt them and is apparently in love to start season 2.  He’s constantly on his back or on his knees and has to be saved by Moiraine, Lanfear, Verin, and Egwene.  He’s taught nothing yet we’re supposed to understand that he know how to use the sword (though he doesn’t really demonstrate it) and he goes from having no abilities to wielding the power both like a scalpel and with massive, deadly effect.  

[Sabio]

Season 2 is better than season 1, but suffers from the same flaws.  The pacing is horrible with minor things taking up a lot of time and key events being just rushed past.  The last few episodes of season 2 IMO were the weakest.  Too many changes that weren't needed like Siuan going from the dragon must be free to he needs to be held captive until the last battle.  Or the sense that anytime something happens they need Ishy or Lanfear there.  Ishy taking an interest in Min?  Rand just looking weak and needing a rescue anytime he faces a challenge.  Ingtars death meant nothing.  It just felt really disjointed, with it seeming like they would toss in a line from the book here and there which seemed forced.  Just like with season 1, there was nothing about season 2 that makes me feel like I need to go back and watch the season again.  So far the series has left me feeling like ok I've seen it, time to move on.  I will watch season 3 but I don't really care when it comes out.

[CaddySedai]

[Irvyne]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:15 AM, fra85uk said:

Again, as bookreader I feel that I am missing the opportunity to see in live-action some of the most iconic moments of the books and I am quite sure there will be no other adaptation in the near-future.

Detaching myself from the books, I am trying to see it as a different version but honestly, as a show itself, I don't see it being great either, it has way too many issues. However, the technical part has been improved.

Yep, totally agree with this. There are (in my mind) ICONIC scenes in the first two (or three?) books that I was so excited to see realised on screen. And they've just been removed. Ignored. They're never going to be there. What's been put in their place is boring, inconsequential soap-opera stuff that has no bearing on the actual plot. I had kind of come to terms with this after season 1. Okay, I thought, it's just the team getting to grips with how to tell the story. They will have learnt their lesson. But then they went and did it all over again in season 2! >_<

 

There are elements of the show that I feel like have so much potential if they were handled properly. For the most part, I think the cast is great. Egwene, the new Mat, Nynaeve, Verin, Lanfear, all really great. I would love to have seen them given better material to work with. (Though Maddy really shone with those damane scenes!)

 

The characters have barely been given any real space to develop. Take the last episode, for example. Each "party" of characters would be on screen for a few seconds. Maybe say a line or two if they're lucky. Then the action would switch to someone completely different. Then switch again. This is the kind of technique that can work really well at a climax (think of Lord of the Rings) IF the characters are well-known and developed by this point, and the audience knows what their stories are. But Aviendha, Elayne, even Mat, have barely had anything at all to do this season! They audience hardly even knows who they are and what they're trying to do!

 

I'm sure I'll watch season 3. This show drives me crazy, but it's Wheel of Time, of course I'm going to watch. I just wish someone at Amazon could recognize that having a room of writers who don't actually know anything about the characters or world that they're writing about is sure to cause problems down the line. Maybe time for some fresh faces in the writers' room...?

[trw1972]

Another long term reader here who registered just to discuss the show with other readers - i may have had a membership years ago, i used to spend a lot of time on wotmania and theoryland back in the day.

 

Overall i think i enjoyed season 2 more than most people here- yes they have greatly simplified the magic system and plot points. But i had expected that.  I would like to see more rand coming into his own in S3 however as we have had lots of limelight on egwene and nynaeve.

 

The lan plot did annoy me during the season - especially as the show is so short of time. But i liked the way they demonstrated a difference between unbonded and bonded Lan. 

 

I would have liked to have seen rand do more in the falme battle as well.

 

On the other hand i have absolutely LOVED the show version of Lanfear, i love this series of books but sometimes the bad guys did not feel fully fleshed out.  Show lanfear has come across clearly as someone who wants both rand and power to me. She has successfully portrayed jealousy, arrogance, obsession and an underlying instability. She has been a highpoint of the entire show for me.

[Scarloc99]

On 10/6/2023 at 8:50 PM, fra85uk said:

Not wrong, her subplot was the worst part of S2 and honestly Rosamund Pike acting was way below her standards.

But she is producer of the show...so she will stay central.

No 2 major events in season 2 moved Moiraine to the role of regular and not central, the first was giving Rand the choice to enter the dream world with Lanfer, telling him "this is your choice" the second is having her miles away from the massive fight on the tower and giving the EF5 plus Elayne there avengers assemble moment. 

[Scarloc99]

23 hours ago, Irvyne said:

Yep, totally agree with this. There are (in my mind) ICONIC scenes in the first two (or three?) books that I was so excited to see realised on screen. And they've just been removed. Ignored. They're never going to be there. What's been put in their place is boring, inconsequential soap-opera stuff that has no bearing on the actual plot. I had kind of come to terms with this after season 1. Okay, I thought, it's just the team getting to grips with how to tell the story. They will have learnt their lesson. But then they went and did it all over again in season 2! >_<

 

There are elements of the show that I feel like have so much potential if they were handled properly. For the most part, I think the cast is great. Egwene, the new Mat, Nynaeve, Verin, Lanfear, all really great. I would love to have seen them given better material to work with. (Though Maddy really shone with those damane scenes!)

 

The characters have barely been given any real space to develop. Take the last episode, for example. Each "party" of characters would be on screen for a few seconds. Maybe say a line or two if they're lucky. Then the action would switch to someone completely different. Then switch again. This is the kind of technique that can work really well at a climax (think of Lord of the Rings) IF the characters are well-known and developed by this point, and the audience knows what their stories are. But Aviendha, Elayne, even Mat, have barely had anything at all to do this season! They audience hardly even knows who they are and what they're trying to do!

 

I'm sure I'll watch season 3. This show drives me crazy, but it's Wheel of Time, of course I'm going to watch. I just wish someone at Amazon could recognize that having a room of writers who don't actually know anything about the characters or world that they're writing about is sure to cause problems down the line. Maybe time for some fresh faces in the writers' room...?

Because in the grand scheme of things books 1-3 are repetitive, in terms of TV will be boring, and the "iconic moments" don't really tell the key story of seasons 1 and 2, how do the EF5 get to the emotional point of the end of book 3. How does Rand go from farmboy to library scouring ruler to be, How do Egwene and Nynaeve go from wisdom and apprentice to Black Ajah hunters, How does Matt change from Gollum wannabe into the Master of Battles, How does Perrin become angry wolf talking emo boy. 

Yes it would have been great to see some of those moments, but, given that there where only about 16 hours of TV, and there is so much information that needs to be included for the TV viewer to understand, and so many side characters we need to give an arc to to make the TV viewer care about them. It was always obvious that those moments where not coming back. Books 1-3 are the prologue anyway, they are not the story that RJ ended up wanting to write, the tone, the themes, the very essence of some of the characters are changed and retconned, he tries things and then decides to never revisit them (portal stones) because he doesn't like how they fit in his world. Book 4 is where WOT proper begins in terms of the actual story that RJ wanted to write, and given we are getting all of book 4 in season 3 I am absolutely ok with moments being cut early on. Books 1-3 are really, in essence, the story of the hobbits getting to Rivendell and forming the fellowship, and just as Peter Jackson cut out vast swathes of that part of the story to get to the actual story of the lord of the rings, so the writers realised that all the early stuff, as cool as some of it is, needed to be cut out because it would either be to expensive to shoot, or require effort and time better spent on actually telling the linear story of how the EF5 get to the last battle, which is the ONLY story that matters here. 

[bojesphob]

5 hours ago, trw1972 said:

Another long term reader here who registered just to discuss the show with other readers - i may have had a membership years ago, i used to spend a lot of time on wotmania and theoryland back in the day.

 

Overall i think i enjoyed season 2 more than most people here- yes they have greatly simplified the magic system and plot points. But i had expected that.  I would like to see more rand coming into his own in S3 however as we have had lots of limelight on egwene and nynaeve.

 

The lan plot did annoy me during the season - especially as the show is so short of time. But i liked the way they demonstrated a difference between unbonded and bonded Lan. 

 

I would have liked to have seen rand do more in the falme battle as well.

 

On the other hand i have absolutely LOVED the show version of Lanfear, i love this series of books but sometimes the bad guys did not feel fully fleshed out.  Show lanfear has come across clearly as someone who wants both rand and power to me. She has successfully portrayed jealousy, arrogance, obsession and an underlying instability. She has been a highpoint of the entire show for me.

I definitely agree, the actress for Lanfear is knocking it out the park, although I would say they had her in just a smidge too much later in the season. I get the reasoning for it, so I won't complain. I do like that they're focusing on the others at the moment. Egwene needs her time to become Amyrlin, and having her go through the Seachan "training"/torture/beatdown, and then come out of it stronger for it ("I will never be collared again!" and everything) was necessary for her later story arcs. Even in the books Rand really didn't have that much development until he went to Tear or even Rhuidian. I mean, he did start learning the sword stuff, but he really was just basically going with the flow and letting things happen for the most part until he decided to go to Tear, at least what I remember of it (it's been about well over 6 years since my last read through, so I might be misremembering).

Another thing I really like about the last episode is that Moirraine realized that the Dragon prophesies weren't just about things happening with only fate at the helm, which is what she thought up until that point (ie, that she didn't have to consciously do anything for them to happen, that they just would happen), but that she had to be an active participant in the process and intentionally make some things happen like the fire in the sky to announce the Dragon. 

[Mirefox]

7 hours ago, trw1972 said:

Another long term reader here who registered just to discuss the show with other readers - i may have had a membership years ago, i used to spend a lot of time on wotmania and theoryland back in the day.

 

Overall i think i enjoyed season 2 more than most people here- yes they have greatly simplified the magic system and plot points. But i had expected that.  I would like to see more rand coming into his own in S3 however as we have had lots of limelight on egwene and nynaeve.

 

The lan plot did annoy me during the season - especially as the show is so short of time. But i liked the way they demonstrated a difference between unbonded and bonded Lan. 

 

I would have liked to have seen rand do more in the falme battle as well.

 

On the other hand i have absolutely LOVED the show version of Lanfear, i love this series of books but sometimes the bad guys did not feel fully fleshed out.  Show lanfear has come across clearly as someone who wants both rand and power to me. She has successfully portrayed jealousy, arrogance, obsession and an underlying instability. She has been a highpoint of the entire show for me.

Yup.  I think amongst all the arguments, Lanfear is for the most part agreed upon as a great character.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have her introduced as the damsel in distress Selene who maybe rolls her eyes behind Rand’s back when he refuses to fall for her suggestions, but post-Moiraine stabbing, she’s great.

[trw1972]

**not sure if book spoilers need tagging but spoilers to be safe**

 

 

 

Yes i completely agree the reason they gave egwene the scene against ishy was to demonstrate that her time as a damane has bought on her abilities at an accelerated rate.

 

I dont always agree with the decisions by the show runner but dont buy the idea he hates the source etc.

 

Do you think we will miss all the sword training now? or perhaps get the later sword fight with Be'lal?

[Guire]

8 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Because in the grand scheme of things books 1-3 are repetitive, in terms of TV will be boring, and the "iconic moments" don't really tell the key story of seasons 1 and 2, how do the EF5 get to the emotional point of the end of book 3. How does Rand go from farmboy to library scouring ruler to be, How do Egwene and Nynaeve go from wisdom and apprentice to Black Ajah hunters, How does Matt change from Gollum wannabe into the Master of Battles, How does Perrin become angry wolf talking emo boy. 

Yes it would have been great to see some of those moments, but, given that there where only about 16 hours of TV, and there is so much information that needs to be included for the TV viewer to understand, and so many side characters we need to give an arc to to make the TV viewer care about them. It was always obvious that those moments where not coming back. Books 1-3 are the prologue anyway, they are not the story that RJ ended up wanting to write, the tone, the themes, the very essence of some of the characters are changed and retconned, he tries things and then decides to never revisit them (portal stones) because he doesn't like how they fit in his world. Book 4 is where WOT proper begins in terms of the actual story that RJ wanted to write, and given we are getting all of book 4 in season 3 I am absolutely ok with moments being cut early on. Books 1-3 are really, in essence, the story of the hobbits getting to Rivendell and forming the fellowship, and just as Peter Jackson cut out vast swathes of that part of the story to get to the actual story of the lord of the rings, so the writers realised that all the early stuff, as cool as some of it is, needed to be cut out because it would either be to expensive to shoot, or require effort and time better spent on actually telling the linear story of how the EF5 get to the last battle, which is the ONLY story that matters here. 

I agree with you on lots of your assessment.  However, there was many places where show team made poor choices that led to lots of less entertaing TV that so far hasnt paid off in advancing story.  You can argue books made mistakes.  Show made more.

[Scarloc99]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:51 PM, bojesphob said:

Afternoon, all. Just finished the last episode of the show for this season, and figured it had been a long time since I was on here, I'd stop in and drop some thoughts into the thread. I'm an old school fan of the series, and was on here a bit back in 2012 when Memory of Light was released. Can't remember if I was on much before that, but I do still have a few posts from back then LOL

 

Anyhow, a little background: I started with reading about the time book 4 came out. I have read the first 4 books 11 times through, and each book after that one less time (I reread the entire series each time a new book was released, and reread the entire series again after finishing Memory of Light). I played the PC game when it came out several times. I have a signed copy of Knife of Dreams from Robert, and a signed version of Memory of Light from Brandon. My hope, though, is that when I say what I say, I'm not mentioning any of that to say that I have some sort of ownership of the series, or that my opinion is the only one allowed, I know there are strong feelings both ways about this, just like any other adaptation that's ever come out.  I'm going to "spoiler" my longer piece here so you don't have to read all of it if you don't but you're free to if you'd like.

 

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With that out of the way, I was concerned when they said they were going to do Wheel of Time as a series, much as I was about the Rings of Power series, and much as I have been about a myriad of other book adaptations. I wanted the Golden Compass to be good. It was not (at least nowhere near the source material). The same with Eregon. Or even the Shinara (sp?) TV series. They took a vague premise from the source material and just made everything else up as a way to make money while spending as little as possible, and the end results were all lackluster and forgettable. When the Lord of the Rings movies came out, I decided that I was going to go into those movies with the goal of letting the filmmakers tell the story the way that they were going to tell it, and enjoy the story how they envisioned it. I came out of those movies excited, because I knew that they did what even the cartoon wasn't really able to do, which was to care about the characters and really get people involved in the story, even those who would have never read the books. I found that the things that were changed or omitted didn't bother me, because I let them decide how to tell the story in that form, and my expectations didn't go unfulfilled as I had none to begin with. While I did wish some things were included (that in LotR's case the extended versions fixed a lot of), and they changed some things, I loved every minute of them because I didn't just have to rely on my imagination to see the story being told, I could actually see it being told. His Dark Shadows was now the same way, not a scene for scene, word for word remake of the books, but exceptionally enjoyable and completely blew away Golden Compass. Eragon.... I wish they'd redo that one... I did luck out, however, because I didn't even start reading Game of Thrones until well after the second season was out, so I had nothing to compare against. I enjoyed it, for the most part, until the second half of the last season, but, well, you could tell Martin had no idea what he wanted for the ending, and what the producers came up with was... well let's just say a severe letdown from the rest of the show. But, having gone back and read a lot of the books since, the TV series, while close to the books, was more of a loose translation like Lord of the Rings and His Dark Shadows.

 

That's a long introduction for me to just say....

 

I can say there are several things I haven't liked about the WoT series. The burning out thing at the end of Season 1 bothered me at Tarwin's Gap, although I do understand why they had the Aes Sedai doing it instead of Rand. Loial being stabbed by the dagger and being ok (of course, since having been acknowledged as being a mistake because of the COVID stuff going on, which now doesn't bother me as much). At first I also had an issue Moiranne not being able to channel after the end of S1, but S2 rectified that for me. What I have found is that even though there are some things I would have done differently, I am enjoying the series. I knew there were going to be massive changes. I also knew there were going to be things added that I might not like. I also knew there would be things omitted that I didn't like not being there. And when I accepted that and decided to let the show runners tell the story and leave my expectations out of it, I realized that I am getting to see a version of the story that I spent hundreds of hours pouring over in the books. Not exactly the same, and to be honest, I'm rather glad it's not the same (I couldn't imagine how boring books 9-10.5 would be on television o.O). The major beats of the story are there, but in a different order and some in different forms. I actually teared up a little bit at the end of this last episode because, while it was different than what I had envisioned from reading, it brought the story to the same point in the books at Falme.

 

Again this is all my own personal journey with it. It's easy to bring in expectations that are either unachievable or just wouldn't work in a real sense in the medium of television, and a few times I had to smack around the voice in my head that wanted to bring my expectations into the fray when all it would do was reduce my enjoyment of what the show is.

 

Whether you enjoy it or not is completely up to you. Whether the show meets your expectations, also, is up to you. Rafe and team are making the story that they know how to make, and are trying to do so with the limitations placed on them, and from what I can tell are trying to do so with as much reverence to the source material as they can muster and still work within the constraints that they have. Many other properties can't say the same. I mean, we could have a Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider level bad for this, or Shinara, or Golden Compass. But, we have far better than that.

 

I will admit, though, it's not perfect, and as they get better at their story telling, it will also improve. I mean, I already feel Season 2 is FAR better than Season 1, and I enjoyed Season 1. I love the casting, and boy was Moghedien creepy at the end of this last episode! Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine, but even with GoT's and how well it was done, this is the only attempt we'll probably ever get to see this in live action, for good or bad. My thought is, why not enjoy it for what it is, then to not enjoy it for what it isn't? Anyhow, I may join in on some of the more in depth discussions at some point when I have time, as I do miss having plot discussions on here!

Just as an aside did you see the BBC adaptation of his dark materials, I thought is was brilliantly done, so much better then the movie. 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Guire said:

I agree with you on lots of your assessment.  However, there was many places where show team made poor choices that led to lots of less entertaing TV that so far hasnt paid off in advancing story.  You can argue books made mistakes.  Show made more.

And this is something I am happy to debate, what was cut and what was included we can talk about, I happen to think that overall the right choices where made, season 1 just executed them poorly, season 2 showed that the fans can be far more forgiving if the overall quality is better. 

 

But my non book reading friends who have no point of comparison loved it, my neighbor and her family just rewatched episode 8 of season 1 to get set for binging season 2 now it has all dropped, she commented she had forgotten how amazing the episode was and it made her really excited for season 2. My wife got very emotional at scenes in the last 2 episodes because of the time spent in building things up over the previous 6, episode 8 of season 2 was probably the most vocal and physical I have seen her get at a tv show in a long time, grabbing my hand, shouting at the tv screen. 
 

That is all anecdotal but it shows that the choices the writers made did affect a set of viewers in the way they wanted. 

[Mirefox]

2 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

And this is something I am happy to debate, what was cut and what was included we can talk about, I happen to think that overall the right choices where made, season 1 just executed them poorly, season 2 showed that the fans can be far more forgiving if the overall quality is better. 

 

But my non book reading friends who have no point of comparison loved it, my neighbor and her family just rewatched episode 8 of season 1 to get set for binging season 2 now it has all dropped, she commented she had forgotten how amazing the episode was and it made her really excited for season 2. My wife got very emotional at scenes in the last 2 episodes because of the time spent in building things up over the previous 6, episode 8 of season 2 was probably the most vocal and physical I have seen her get at a tv show in a long time, grabbing my hand, shouting at the tv screen. 
 

That is all anecdotal but it shows that the choices the writers made did affect a set of viewers in the way they wanted. 

Oh, if only the discussion was what was cur and what was included.  Instead the discussion is what was changed and what was pulled out or Rafe’s butt.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Mirefox