WoT Season 2 Episode 1: A Taste of Solitude

[SinisterDeath]

4 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Have not watched it.

 

4 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Have not watched it.

 

4 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

lol

 

I have not watched it yet. I gave up on Picard mid-way through season one... But people seem to like S3.

Honestly, skip seasons 1 & 2, watch season 3. You'll see bad ass Worf fight. He's pretty fun. 

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Not to everyone.

 

Because the writers have very clearly approached Moiraine's Season 2 story as if she's been Stilled, the visuals used don't really matter right now.

 

If we later learn that the writers treating Moiraine's situation as a Stilling was an intentional misdirection, then we can go back and analyze the visuals, but until/unless that happens, comparing the visual depiction of Liandrin shielding Nynaeve to what the "Dark One" did to Moiraine Kind of misses the point of the narrative being presented.

Lol, the writers presented that any of the 5 could be the dragon. 

We all knew that was Rand, and that Rand was Male who would channel Saidin.

 

The writers job IS to misdirecte the audience.

 

Do you... Not remember the Marvel trailer incident? 

[Guire]

59 minutes ago, forte12 said:

Counterpoint to that is- have you ever actually spent time with soldiers? We don’t actually spend that much time with warders

in the books. They get a general wash of “manly” or “masculine” which is what we give soldiers in real life, but if you take them individually? They are all vastly different. Some stoic, some quiet, emotional, funny, loud, angry, sensitive. They are people after all. What one outwardly portrays in a formal setting would be quite different among friends- which is what this scene is. Also, all soldiers that I know can admit that they’ve fallen in love with someone. That’s not a particularly nuanced emotional statement.

 

Knowing and growing up in the military ( never having served myself, but being an air force brat) I always found Jordan’s blanket wash of these characters to be uninteresting, even if he did serve. Considering he never went into much detail about their indivual personality, there’s nothing to say that one can’t be sensitive or caring. The only important part the character that must be captured  is that they can protect their aes sedei. It would be uninteresting to have 6 characters basically having the same personality on a TV series. Characters who aren’t connected or at least aware of their emotions don’t make for good TV. 

it actually feels more like you are inserting your political beliefs and ideas of what men should be into this rather than the other way around.

 

A lion stuffed in a stall might look like a joke, but a lion on the high plains was something very different.  Rafe so far is giving us warderdoodles.  You are 100 percent correct that soldiers come in all shapes, sizes, personalities, sexualities, etc. And soldiers amongst themselves can behave very informally.  But soldiers that have seen direct combat do tend to have a switch, an edge.  I was not a very good soldier.  I was a medic.  But my dad did multiple tours of vietnam.  Many of his friends when I grew up in 70s were combat vets.  My family, my wife, my wife"s family large number of combat vets.  This show is not capturing a soldiers voice from my experience.  Borderlanders and warders have both been off.  It is just not a priority for Rafe while making correctives to misogyny is.  

[SinisterDeath]

12 minutes ago, Guire said:

A lion stuffed in a stall might look like a joke, but a lion on the high plains was something very different.  Rafe so far is giving us warderdoodles.  You are 100 percent correct that soldiers come in all shapes, sizes, personalities, sexualities, etc. And soldiers amongst themselves can behave very informally.  But soldiers that have seen direct combat do tend to have a switch, an edge.  I was not a very good soldier.  I was a medic.  But my dad did multiple tours of vietnam.  Many of his friends when I grew up in 70s were combat vets.  My family, my wife, my wife"s family large number of combat vets.  This show is not capturing a soldiers voice from my experience.  Borderlanders and warders have both been off.  It is just not a priority for Rafe while making correctives to misogyny is.  

The last "War" was ~20 years ago.

 

Tam, was a vet of that, and it shows.

Erol, Rand's ward (show character) Is one, and it definitely shows.

 

Alanna's warders? They're younglings in the show. ~30s (No idea on book age)

 

Book Lan was 25 during the Aiel wars, dunno if he participated, but he's definitely seen skirmishes. I dunno how old they've made show Lan, I'd put him closer to 40 then 45.

 

Lan feels like he's between Tam and Alanna's warders. He's seens thing's, but he hasn't quite been through the trauma of actual war yet. That's coming. 

 

People like to forget how relatively peaceful regional wars are in this world.

Full scale wars? Those are rare and a thing of the past. They've had skirmishes, bandits... But the last big war was with the Aiel... 

[Scarloc99]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:34 AM, Seaine's eyebrows said:

Verin 🤎🤎🤎

And calling back the Aes Sedai sisters one of which dies on the journey with the Kinswomen, my prediction is that Verins sister dies at the hands of a “darkfriend”. 

[Scarloc99]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:57 AM, Pandemonium said:

The quality of the show has majorly improved.  Yes it was a little slow, but that is a very good thing.  This show finally slowed down to develop the characters and the actors are finally allowed to let their talents shine.  I don't like seeing Lan take such a beating in a fight, and I felt like the lighting of that scene was too dark.  I would have also loved to have seen the dragkhar.  Otherwise very solid episode.  

 

I think the IGN review misses the mark

 

But this is Lan without the Bond, so he would be weaker and in many ways it makes it more impressive. “Mortal” Lan took on 2 Fades. 

[DigificWriter]

44 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

the writers presented that any of the 5 could be the dragon

 

And they genuinely could have been.

 

The fact that Rand did end up being the Dragon Reborn doesn't invalidate or negate the choice that was made to genuinely create a scenario in which he potentially wasn't.

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

genuinely create a scenario in which he potentially wasn't.

This is Schroedinger's lore change. He is. He was always intended to be. And it's unclear whether the mechanics of the universe permit "the Dragon" to be a man, but we know that there were in fact women who were essentially the same as the Dragon, but not the "same soul". So are there female Dragons in which case, Moiraine is correct? Or is only one male soul "the Dragon" in which case she is wrong? Depends on which side of the coin you look.

 

Moreover, we don't know whether what Moiraine said was true, or based on her faulty understanding of the truth. She has demonstrated the capacity to be incredibly, horribly, undeniably wrong in her assessments. It's not a point worth fixating on anymore -- in my opinion.

[Scarloc99]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:18 PM, Mirefox said:

How so?  I’ve seen no hints she’s just shielded.  I think they’ve given her the worst fate possible outside death so that later they can have Nynaeve heal her.  That will resonate with viewers more that with a character like Siuan that viewers don’t know all that well.

She isn’t stilled, she is shielded and the shield is tied off. Lan has stated that it takes 8 Aes Sedai to still a channeler, Morraine not knowing the difference between being stilled and being cut off makes sense because she has never been stilled, what you are seeing is a Morraine who realises everything she thought she knew, was sure she knew is wrong. She is over estimating the power of the forsaken, much as the characters do in the books before they realise that they are fallible and not as strong as they make out. 
 

I imagine either Lanfer or Rand will break the shield, Lanfer to “show Morraine” how little she knows, or Rand will just look at her, see the weave of the block and remove it. 

[Scarloc99]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:50 PM, Mirefox said:

You dive deep into the books to give corollary and reasons why she might not be stilled.  The entire show began with Liandrin saying that every time a male channels he taints the One Power and then proceeded to play fast and loose with the rules governing it’s nature and it’s use.  Until the writers surprise me and prove me wrong, I’m going to go with Occam’s Razor and assume she’s stilled and further assume it was done to set up Nynaeve’s abilities.

Liandrin, a darkfriend red who is meant to be sowing disinformation. 

[Skipp]

28 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

But this is Lan without the Bond, so he would be weaker and in many ways it makes it more impressive. “Mortal” Lan took on 2 Fades. 

 

This is something that is not addressed in the books and might be a change for the show.  Masking the bond is never stated to remove the other bonuses warders receive but what if it does?

 

In season 1 ep 6 Moiraine masks the bond to go visit Suian.  Lan approaches her and says " I can't protect you if I can't feel you".  This could be hinting to losing the other bonuses or could just be him having comfort knowing that she feels that she is safe.

 

Masking the bond for long periods at a time and its effects are just never addressed. 

 

On another hand this might just be more evidence that Moiraine is actually severed.  Lan does say that he "should have felt the fades" so it does seem he has lost his warder sense.

[Agitel]

I'm almost assuming that the show-Forsaken know more complex weaves that go beyond a "basic" shielding, mask the spiritual bond, etc... That this shield goes beyond anything Moiraine's ever experienced or heard about. Or maybe it's as simple as the bond being disrupted in the show system when shielded.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Agitel

[Samt]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Book Lan was 25 during the Aiel wars, dunno if he participated

Did you not read the books?  Book Lan literally commands troops in the Aiel War on page.

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is Schroedinger's lore change. He is. He was always intended to be. And it's unclear whether the mechanics of the universe permit "the Dragon" to be a man, but we know that there were in fact women who were essentially the same as the Dragon, but not the "same soul". So are there female Dragons in which case, Moiraine is correct? Or is only one male soul "the Dragon" in which case she is wrong? Depends on which side of the coin you look.

 

Moreover, we don't know whether what Moiraine said was true, or based on her faulty understanding of the truth. She has demonstrated the capacity to be incredibly, horribly, undeniably wrong in her assessments. It's not a point worth fixating on anymore -- in my opinion.

This is one of my biggest issues with those who argue the Dragon can’t be male. 
 

LTT was the dragon for this turning, and the Dark Lord tells Rand that he has fought this battle an infinite amount of times. But, this does not tell us that there has always been “A Dragon”. Rand is not the Dragon of the next turning of the wheel, he is a continuation of the story started by LTT during this turning. This Turning ends when everything is reset, all memory of a dark lord, of the true power maybe even the one power all together is lost. Ogiers have left and all memory of snakes and foxes and Ter Angrel etc are gone. Humanity is reset, in some way and then starts on a journey that will eventually allow someone/some people to release the dark one from the prison and so restart the tale. It is why I always hoped that Rand would eventually kill the dark one only to have to lock up the being that used to be Fain to protect the world from the new darklord, knowing that in hundreds of thousands of years time that basing would seep out into the world with new evil. 
 

People really don’t seem to understand the very essence of the story and then get all angry at things that are not written down because they are completely unknown to all in universe. 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

I'm almost assuming that the show-Forsaken know more complex weaves that go beyond a "basic" shielding, mask the spiritual bond, etc... That this shield goes beyond anything Moiraine's ever experienced or heard about. Or maybe it's as simple as the bond being disrupted in the show system when shielded.

I mean the book forsaken knowledge of weaves changed as RJ fleshed out the rules more and more. Compulsion for instance would have come in really useful in the eye of the world. This is the one thing with book vs series. During much of the early books RJ was figuring it all out as he wrote it, creating situations and then coming up with t he magic rules to allow it. He did not flesh out everything before he wrote EOTW, in fact I would guess when he wrote book 1 he knew very very little of what was to come. Now with the TV show the writers have all of the bag of tricks, plus all that other stuff the forsaken do that we never see “on screen” or is just hinted at. So Forsaken can do remarkable things, but, if a single forsaken could genuinely still any other channeler that easily then it changes all the rules of the game in a way that makes no sense. Suddenly every other forsaken is at risk if they are caught out sleeping. 

[Guire]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

The last "War" was ~20 years ago.

 

Tam, was a vet of that, and it shows.

Erol, Rand's ward (show character) Is one, and it definitely shows.

 

Alanna's warders? They're younglings in the show. ~30s (No idea on book age)

 

Book Lan was 25 during the Aiel wars, dunno if he participated, but he's definitely seen skirmishes. I dunno how old they've made show Lan, I'd put him closer to 40 then 45.

 

Lan feels like he's between Tam and Alanna's warders. He's seens thing's, but he hasn't quite been through the trauma of actual war yet. That's coming. 

 

People like to forget how relatively peaceful regional wars are in this world.

Full scale wars? Those are rare and a thing of the past. They've had skirmishes, bandits... But the last big war was with the Aiel... 

Tam was in multiple regional wars prior to Aiel War.  Lan was a company commander possibly battalion commander in Aiel War.  All Borderlander soldiers including Lan would have fought intermitent skirmishes against trollocs and Aiel in Eastern marches.  All Borderlanders over 38 probably fought in some capacity in Aiel War.  All Warders also in service at time had some war experience.  So all the soldiers in Borderland service, Tower Guard, Warders, and White Cloaks were trained by officers and ncos with combat experience.  Lan in books spent his entire life before Moraine at the heel of crusty old veterans or leading men in combat.  He should be a master at compartmentalizing his emotion, taking orders from his superior(Moraine), fighting the fight even when emotionally compromised.  

Also Uno would have eaten Perrin alive for that crap him and Loiol were pulling.  Maybe that kind of joking at a new Lt.  A senior NCO with heavy combat experiemce sees all, knows all, and doesnt play games.  Uno would never have forced the Seanchans hand either.  You fight to win or defend not for foolish pride.  

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

Did you not read the books?  Book Lan literally commands troops in the Aiel War on page.

Yes i read them. I just can't recall anything specific about what lan did during that time frame.

New Spring I remember Lan throwing Moiraine in a pond... 

[Samt]

6 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Yes i read them. I just can't recall anything specific about what lan did during that time frame.

New Spring I remember Lan throwing Moiraine in a pond... 

The whole first chapter of New Spring is Lan fighting in the Aiel War.  It's why he meets Moiraine.  

[Mailman]

11 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Why would Moiraine and Lan know about the consequences of severing? Moiraine has been on the hunt for the Dragon, how much experience has she had with women who have been severed? Would Lan have any idea?

 

I didn't find those scenes to be bad at all. I think that Moiraine is going to be going on Siuan's journey in place of being held by the Finn. That's actually a pretty smart choice. It keeps your A-list actress around, gives her a really good, emotional arc to play with while at the same time eliminating a fun, but ultimately unnecessary plotline.

Because they are Aes Sedai and warders they know about what happens when they are cut off from the source.

[SinisterDeath]

43 minutes ago, Samt said:

The whole first chapter of New Spring is Lan fighting in the Aiel War.  It's why he meets Moiraine.  

It's been *checks notes* 19 years since I've read the first chapter of new spring. Sue me. 

[DaddyFinn]

8 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Not to everyone.

 

Because the writers have very clearly approached Moiraine's Season 2 story as if she's been Stilled, the visuals used don't really matter right now.

 

If we later learn that the writers treating Moiraine's situation as a Stilling was an intentional misdirection, then we can go back and analyze the visuals, but until/unless that happens, comparing the visual depiction of Liandrin shielding Nynaeve to what the "Dark One" did to Moiraine Kind of misses the point of the narrative being presented.

Visuals are everything in a show like this. It would be cheap and weird to have two exactly same weaves do completely different things

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

Because they are Aes Sedai and warders they know about what happens when they are cut off from the source.

Source, please.

[Jaysen Gore]

And we're back...hello everyone, and welcome to Season 2 of my comments on Amazon Prime's Wheel of Time.  Good to see many of the same faces here.

 

I did not find Episode 1 to be that good; entirely too much to cover, reset, and our cast spread out in 5 different places meant we didn't have much time for setting them in place, showing what everyone was doing, and then moving on the next major character. 

 

I am giving them a major pass on the 6 month hand wave they did - there was so much crap the final episode that they just couldn't fix if they'd picked it up and dwelt on it, that they simply went "it's 6 months later, almost everyone got better. Move on, we'll try to do better"

[Mailman]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Source, please.

So are you telling me that the white tower the source of knowledge for almost all things power related in the current universe which has stood for thousands of years has no idea what happens when someone is cut off from the source.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mailman

[Ralph]

Do you not think Moiraine was starting to manage to channel a tiny bit just before Verin turned up? either the shield wearing off or starting to get through it somehow