Why not follow the books more closely?

[Rsmithboeing]

I think that there are people who confuse "adaptation" and, "mutilation."

Amazon has allowed it to be completely ruined and, I don't see that changing in season 2. Especially when the person in charge doesn't care about staying remotely true to Robert Jordan and, Sanderson's work. It seems listening to the interviews that the mutilation will continue since, one of the main points that can be taken is who's in a relationship with whom.

 

There is no way he was ever a fan of the books. Anyone can buy a stack of books and, take a picture of them. And, the one that he claims was so well worn it needed replacing. That book was "neglected" not worn out.

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, Rsmithboeing said:

I think that there are people who confuse "adaptation" and, "mutilation."

I think there are people who confuse “opinion” with “fact”. You appear to be one of those. 

[DigificWriter]

2 hours ago, Rsmithboeing said:

I think that there are people who confuse "adaptation" and, "mutilation."

Amazon has allowed it to be completely ruined and, I don't see that changing in season 2. Especially when the person in charge doesn't care about staying remotely true to Robert Jordan and, Sanderson's work. It seems listening to the interviews that the mutilation will continue since, one of the main points that can be taken is who's in a relationship with whom.

 

There is no way he was ever a fan of the books. Anyone can buy a stack of books and, take a picture of them. And, the one that he claims was so well worn it needed replacing. That book was "neglected" not worn out.

 

Get over yourself.

 

You're free to dislike the show, but you don't get to set yourself up as some "holy arbiter" of whether or not Rafe and his team are actually fans of the WoT novels simply because you don't like the choices they're making in adapting said novels to television.

Edited August 12, 2023 by DigificWriter

[SinisterDeath]

3 hours ago, Rsmithboeing said:

I think that there are people who confuse "adaptation" and, "mutilation."

 

 

 

Does a person who has been "mutilated" (lost a limb) not adapt to those changes? Hell, I knew a kid with one arm that could catch and throw a baseball better then most able bodied people could... But what do I know, the English language is complicated.

 

[Rsmithboeing]

Well there always people who think adding ball gaggs to the Domani isn't a unreasonable or twisted change.

 

And, there are those defensive of the people who are offended by the complete change of an already good story.

 

Don't expect me to get drawn into being like those individuals who can't handle the "fact" the changes weren't necessary to save budget. Those who put down views not their own. I won't change your mind don't think you'll change mine. But, at least I have no need to put down those individuals views.

And, I can read a whole definition before posting it as a win. I'm certain that the parts removed and, irreparably damaged.... disfigured the whole.

 

I say stop calling it the Wheel of Time because, it isn't anymore it's a completely different story. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Rsmithboeing

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:00 AM, king of nowhere said:

the way I interpret it, "i didn't like it" means it's my opinion; "it sucks" has a harder edge, it implies a level of objective badness that at least a majority of viewers would agree with. "the execs should have canceled it" implies it to be objectively bad by agreement of almost everyone, and economically losing too.

 

 

we have no hard data on viewership, but season 3 was greenlit after season 1 was aired, so the execs judge the data to be at least good enough to keep spending money on making new episodes. as for how to quantify revenue, I have no idea how they do it, but I am pretty sure they do have ways to at least make estimates. people do not throw around hundreds of millions without some cost/benefit analysis.

I wasn't happy with the cauthons, but it makes a lot of sense.

certainly the characterization of the two river people (with every bad one as coplin or congar) made me raise a few eyebrows.

Don’t forget cenn buie! 😂

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:00 AM, Samt said:

Historically, isolated backwaters are not hellholes.  They generally have a strong sense of community values and solidarity.  And in the book, the people of the two rivers are mostly prosperous enough to not worry about feeding their children, etc.  

 

Primitive lifestyles do not lead to unhappy people as long as those people don’t know any different.  But the key word here is isolated. The main reason that small communities have problems in the modern world is the comparison.  Prospective young people leave the communities for better opportunities elsewhere and the growth and productivity stagnates.  Those that are stuck behind become more desperate and despondent. And the situation deteriorates.  
 

This is actually very much the point that is frequently made in literature and is likely why RJ made the TR the way it is.  The hero comes from a simple way of life because it gives him

the clarity to understand what really matters.  And as much as every DND player thinks he is edgy by making a character with a tragic backstory, rising above a tragic backstory is not the most realistic way to success. As unfair as it may seem, most successful people have successful and stable parents, and clear examples of good values to follow.

 

It also just makes sense that the pattern would place the Taveren to save the world in the most favorable upbringing situation. Even if you think that the TR is unrealistic, that is kind of the point of the blood of Manetheren. The traditions and heritage of a noble people from the past continue to live on.  

Forgive me for throwing this off kinda topic thought at you, but your point about isolation and young people potentially leaving the world they know and “seeing the world” reminded me of a minor show change that I enjoyed. When Aram says that the custom in their culture is for young people at a certain age to leave the society and make sure they genuinely want to live by the way of the leaf. Or something to that effect. I thought that was cool. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 8/11/2023 at 4:48 AM, SinisterDeath said:

I mainly brought them back up as contrast to the changes to Abel's character.

E.g. because you had to cut so much content due to time and $$, you can't "add" content due to "time". I think that's nonsense. 

 

I talked about how if you ctrl-f all references to those locations and events within the shows dialogue, and delete, you would have continuity issues. That you would need to fill in those blanks somewhere.

 

I've mentioned Abel's changes now are most likely their for his character to have a redemption arc in Season 3 when Perrin returns. Giving the character some on-screen growth beyond "Oh look, there's mr. baddass Abel Cauthon shooting Trollocs in the eye from 600 yards again", what a scamp!

I hope your idea of a redemption arc for Abel comes to pass! I love a good redemption arc 

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I hope your idea of a redemption arc for Abel comes to pass! I love a good redemption arc 

It's not even my idea. It's something that's been talked about on these boards by others quite a bit.

[Skipp]

10 hours ago, Rsmithboeing said:

Well there always people who think adding ball gaggs to the Domani isn't a unreasonable or twisted change.

 

And, there are those defensive of the people who are offended by the complete change of an already good story.

 

Don't expect me to get drawn into being like those individuals who can't handle the "fact" the changes weren't necessary to save budget. Those who put down views not their own. I won't change your mind don't think you'll change mine. But, at least I have no need to put down those individuals views.

And, I can read a whole definition before posting it as a win. I'm certain that the parts removed and, irreparably damaged.... disfigured the whole.

 

I say stop calling it the Wheel of Time because, it isn't anymore it's a completely different story. 

Why would removing one dehumanizing prop, the leash, for another, the gag, be such an unreasonable and twisted change?

 

Considering that using a leash on set would be impractical for blocking and potentially dangerous when using horses or stairs.  Not to mention that I don't believe it was ever stated the length of the leash itself.  Can you imagine the Sul'Dam having to carry around coils and coils of length with them on set.  What if they dropped it in battle?  That would take a while to pick back up!

 

It is a solid change for an adaptation and I don't see how changing the visual of a prop from one dehumanizing metaphor or another makes the show "A completely different story".

 

But as you said it is unlikely that we will change another's mind about the show.

[Elder_Haman]

10 hours ago, Rsmithboeing said:

Well there always people who think adding ball gaggs to the Domani isn't a unreasonable or twisted change.

Explain why changing the leash and collar to a gag and collar is "unreasonable" or "twisted". Especially in light of the facts that: (a) it is incredibly impractical to tether two actors together with a leash and collar and expect them to perform repeated takes on camera; and (b) it is incredibly expensive and laborious to add CGI leashes to every scene where there are one or more sul'dam and damane pairs on the screen.

[Rsmithboeing]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:10 PM, Samt said:

"Could WoT season 2 be better?" and "Will WoT season 2 be better?" are two different questions.  Absolutely it could be better.  But we have to consider that the people who greenlit the release of season 1 are still running the show.  They thought it was good until the public told them otherwise.  Why would we trust their judgment?  

 

13 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Why would removing one dehumanizing prop, the leash, for another, the gag, be such an unreasonable and twisted change?

 

Considering that using a leash on set would be impractical for blocking and potentially dangerous when using horses or stairs.  Not to mention that I don't believe it was ever stated the length of the leash itself.  Can you imagine the Sul'Dam having to carry around coils and coils of length with them on set.  What if they dropped it in battle?  That would take a while to pick back up!

 

It is a solid change for an adaptation and I don't see how changing the visual of a prop from one dehumanizing metaphor or another makes the show "A completely different story".

 

But as you said it is unlikely that we will change another's mind about the show.

It's a necklace connected to leash and bracelet and, they never rode horses.

[DigificWriter]

36 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Explain why changing the leash and collar to a gag and collar is "unreasonable" or "twisted"..

 

You're asking for a rational justification for an objectively irrational argument.

[Skipp]

35 minutes ago, Rsmithboeing said:

 

It's a necklace connected to leash and bracelet and, they never rode horses.

Yes, they removed the leash, added the gag, kept the bracelet and adjusted the necklace.

 

I could be wrong as I don't have the books in front of me but I am fairly certain that Egwene was on a horse as a Damane.  The moment I am remembering is when they take her out to detect minerals.  But either way, horse or no horse, that doesn't make the other concerns less problematic.

 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

Yes, they removed the leash, added the gag, kept the bracelet and adjusted the necklace.

 

I could be wrong as I don't have the books in front of me but I am fairly certain that Egwene was on a horse as a Damane.  The moment I am remembering is when they take her out to detect minerals.  But either way, horse or no horse, that doesn't make the other concerns less problematic.

 

We also learn later on, that the leash component isn't even necessary. (See Elayne recreating them)

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, Rsmithboeing said:

 

It's a necklace connected to leash and bracelet and, they never rode horses.

 

The sul'dam are on horses in tfoh ch 32, with the damane walking 

[Rsmithboeing]

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

We also learn later on, that the leash component isn't even necessary. (See Elayne recreating them)

Oh I'm well aware of that. But, there's no point arguing with either of you guy/gals because, neither of you have a clue about the books. You let that slip arguing for ball gags.

 

Enjoy I thought this was an actual forum for people who knew the books.

 

Take care.

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, Rsmithboeing said:

You let that slip arguing for ball gags.

So you can’t explain why ball gags are a bad choice. We are just all expected to immediately agree with you? 
 

This forum is a place for thoughtful discussion. There are some great Reddit threads where I’m sure you’ll feel right at home. 

[Rsmithboeing]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

So you can’t explain why ball gags are a bad choice. We are just all expected to immediately agree with you? 
 

This forum is a place for thoughtful discussion. There are some great Reddit threads where I’m sure you’ll feel right at home. 

"Thoughtful" discussion? LOL

First ball gaggs were needed because actors would drop the leash. And was because, they needed to ride horses. Which "Domiani" didn't ride. But then it's argued Suldamn did.... with Domiani walking. 

And, it was later "although never removed except in the dreamworld," that the leash wasn't needed.

 

Yep Thoughtful.

 

Yep Thoughtful don't worry I won't be back. 

[Kaleb]

I'm really interested in how the show is going to portray the Seanchan hierarchy levels. The "ball gags" or mouth guards for the damane seem to have a visual parallel with the sul'dam facepaint styles where they have dark paint over their jaws except for around their lips. There's a shot of Lord Turak that shows him wearing ear coverings that symbolize that he doesn't hear those beneath him. Finally, Lady Suroth has that mask that of course displays that she doesn't see those below her. I think the Seanchan are really going to get people excited, they're such a unique "enemy" culture.

[Elder_Haman]

25 minutes ago, Rsmithboeing said:

"Thoughtful" discussion? LOL

First ball gaggs were needed because actors would drop the leash. And was because, they needed to ride horses. Which "Domiani" didn't ride. But then it's argued Suldamn did.... with Domiani walking. 

And, it was later "although never removed except in the dreamworld," that the leash wasn't needed.

 

Yep Thoughtful.

 

Yep Thoughtful don't worry I won't be back. 

Again, you fail to explain your objection to the ball gag. Perhaps you’d like to try to enlighten us as to why it’s such a horrible choice other than yelling about how it’s not in the book. We are all aware that the damane don’t have ball gags in the book. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

16 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

It's not even my idea. It's something that's been talked about on these boards by others quite a bit.

Ahhh. Well I haven’t been around here long, and I don’t read every thread, thanks for setting me straight. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

1 hour ago, Rsmithboeing said:

Yep Thoughtful don't worry I won't be back

Huh? What happened here?? Discussions about personal opinions and providing the reasoning behind the individual opinions is no reason to feel that your right to do the same thing should result in getting other people to agree with you or bail from the community entirely. Additionally, if you think that book readers who don’t see things your way don’t know anything about the books, you’re limiting your viewpoint significantly. I don’t normally engage in this type of comment because arguing differing opinions is futile but perhaps that’s the very point I am trying to make and the reason for my comment. 

[Rsmithboeing]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Again, you fail to explain your objection to the ball gag. Perhaps you’d like to try to enlighten us as to why it’s such a horrible choice other than yelling about how it’s not in the book. We are all aware that the damane don’t have ball gags in the book. 

Fair enough. 

 

It wasn't necessary, just like it wasn't necessary to create intimate situations between people who didn't have them. I've seen you or the other one argue that budget was required or, "how can you show someone under the control of another." Yet niether of you support your arguments instead you subtly put down any one that doesn't feel the way you do.

 

A lot of money could have been saved by not adding unnecessary material. For the idiotic ball gag thing. It would be simple, taking in consideration the special effects that already used, to show a surge from the bracelet to the collar. 

 

Simple easy and, follows the book.

Perrin killing a wife he didn't have.... really how much was the scene. 

 

You're happy to attempt to act like the one making logical arguments. But, you didn't and, that was just in my argument that a ball gag wasn't an acceptable change. 

 

I've been on this site for 2 days and, seen you and, the other one bully and, act insulting. To anyone who doesn't praise the show.

 

It isn't the Wheel of Time. If GoT could do it reasonably well what is the excuse here. 

 

And, when will you support your arguments?

 

You can't because, you don't know the books.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Rsmithboeing

[Skipp]

16 minutes ago, Rsmithboeing said:

Perrin killing a wife he didn't have.... really how much was the scene. 

 

 

This actually has a surprising basis in the books, despite the general controversy over the subject of fridging.

 

In tSR when Perrin returns to the TR he mentions he might have married Layla had he stayed.  Well considering in the show they stayed until they were 20 rather than 18ish things just took their natural course.

 

Of course just because it has a logical basis in the books does not mean it was handled the best nor mute the complaints of fridging.  But him having a wife and killing her does alot of work for a short amount of time.  And considering the amount they had to cut down on episode one I think it did its job.