Why not follow the books more closely?

[Shawlee]

12 hours ago, Samt said:

When someone panders to you well, it’s harder to see the pandering.

I love it, thanks!

[Shawlee]

 

20 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

pandering to a demographic and anyone who disagrees with you is part of that demographic and hence unreliable. 

 

Your position is factually incorrect. And the way you treat people who disagree with you is unpleasant.

@HeavyHalfMoonBlade agree with you, as always. ❤️

 

Being brown, female, muslim, and gay _ i would say they are pendering to my demographic. But do i like it? Nope, i find it ridiculous to uplift one demographic by tearing down others. This is not growth, this is stupidity and it is bound to fall on it's faces. You can quote me on that. 

 

This is my 2 cents. No one needs to agree with me. don't quote me. I don't need to be told how the world is like.

 

We are talking fantasy people. It doesn't need the real world pushed in, or made into the world we live in. Especially when you are in the business of escapism.

 

RJ made a world where color of your skin doesn’t matter. Everyone is the same from Saldaea to Mayene(you see what I did there? 😉🤭) Nor does it matter who you sleep with or love. He made men and women equal but different, and each with unique and different characteristics. which is normal!!!!! 

 

I like the show,i do, i would watch anything that brings these characters I have loved for so long to life. I just don't like their agenda, and disregard for the literary world RJ created. Flaw and all it's His story, not yours. Be respectful 🙏 that's all I ask.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Shawlee
I had more to say, i suppose 🙄

[books of Robert Jordan]

What will happen when the AI (ok, LLM) gets a novel instead of a very short promt?

 

https://openai.com/sora#capabilities

 

 

[king of nowhere]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:41 AM, books of Robert Jordan said:

What will happen when the AI (ok, LLM) gets a novel instead of a very short promt?

 

https://openai.com/sora#capabilities

 

 

probably, human artists will become obsolete.

no offence. i am a teacher, and i expect AI to become capable of doing my job better than me in my lifetime.

maybe we'll finally be able to relax?

[Jaccsen]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:30 AM, DojoToad said:

Unfortunately, the show was not made for the book-reading fanbase.  They are going on the premise that the show, as produced, will bring in a larger audience.  If the book audience is drawn in as well, that is just icing.

 

Unfortunately, the ratings info suggests they underperformed on audience size. The show would have had higher numbers if they chased the book audience.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Jaccsen said:

 

Unfortunately, the ratings info suggests they underperformed on audience size. The show would have had higher numbers if they chased the book audience.

I’m not sure this tracks. The ratings information we have available shows WoT as comparable to other fantasy shows. You can certainly make the case that it’s not had the ROI Amazon wants, given the expense (a question that will be answered by the decision whether to green light Season 4), but the idea that it’s been some sort of ratings disaster is vastly overstated. 
 

It also bears repeating that the ratings information available to us does not reflect the international market, about which Amazon cares a great deal. 

[Mailman]

On 3/29/2024 at 2:00 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I’m not sure this tracks. The ratings information we have available shows WoT as comparable to other fantasy shows. You can certainly make the case that it’s not had the ROI Amazon wants, given the expense (a question that will be answered by the decision whether to green light Season 4), but the idea that it’s been some sort of ratings disaster is vastly overstated. 
 

It also bears repeating that the ratings information available to us does not reflect the international market, about which Amazon cares a great deal. 

There will be a season 4. They will at the least run a conclusion to the story even if it is a rush job. I can't see it running beyond season 5 at the very most though.

[Samt]

17 hours ago, Mailman said:

There will be a season 4. They will at the least run a conclusion to the story even if it is a rush job. I can't see it running beyond season 5 at the very most though.

I really feel that all other factors aside, they needed to plan on making the series within a 10 year span at tops.  If they want 8 seasons, they need a season a year.  Anything less and it just drags on way too long in real time.  Right now it looks like they are only hitting a season every other year and I find it hard to see how you get to 8 at that rate without the project falling apart.

[Elder_Haman]

16 minutes ago, Samt said:

I really feel that all other factors aside, they needed to plan on making the series within a 10 year span at tops.  If they want 8 seasons, they need a season a year.  Anything less and it just drags on way too long in real time.  Right now it looks like they are only hitting a season every other year and I find it hard to see how you get to 8 at that rate without the project falling apart.

To be fair, COVID skewed the production schedule for the first 2 seasons. I think they’re going to try for a season every 18 months or so. 

[Figs and Mice]

Having already expressed my somewhat mixed feelings about the TV show , I have to say that I am also a little uneasy about the prospects for running the thing to a satisfactory conclusion - as the posts immediately above reference.

The point has been well made by several posters that a lot of alterations to the story were necessary in order to have any hope of fitting 14 books into 8 TV seasons. So book fans have had to "suck up" some simplifications already.

 

But : two seasons down ; and we are only at the end of book two. So essentially nothing saved yet. I know there should be scope for cutting a fair bit from books 7-11 but even so it might be a bit of a battle to fit everything in without some fairly savage cuts - some of which are going to upset a lot of people. Suppose everyone will have personal lists of what must stay in ; though I imagine a number of events are non-negotiable ? ( Perrin's defence of his old home town ; Dumai's Wells ; the taking of The Stone ; Rhuidean ...  just for the next four books -- add in your own as inclined)

 

My fear is for what will be jettisoned in order to trim things down.  I do reckon the Finn are already gone , and presumably therefore Moiraine won't be missing seasons (along with Lanfear)  - as she seems to be the main character rather than Rand in this particular "turning" I suppose that makes sense. But it will distort the story further (how will Lan and Nyneave fare ?)  Presume we will still see the wisdom facing off with Moggy but maybe the whole travelling circus will be surplus to requirements...

 

Truth is I have no idea what will be cut/changed ; but I do think as we progress the show is going to diverge even more dramatically from the books , to the point where it may become nearly unrecognizable.  And I suppose that will have the merit of enabling us book fans to be surprised at times 🙂   But I am not altogether confident that the overall result will be all we might hope - and may not be the hit with non-book viewers that the show runners are targeting. (I say this not just because of the variations , but based on the rather clumsy handling of a couple of key moments during these first two seasons)

 

Hey I may just be in a pessimistic mood ; maybe the scriptwriters will get better as we go and they produce a still riveting (though obviously vastly simplified) version of the whole saga )  I should just wait and see ; but those are my current concerns.

[henrywho]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:00 PM, WhiteVeils said:

 IE: People complaining that Mat is a thief when he was selling Fain a bracelet we don't know the specific provenance of

 

Sorry WHAT ! You need to watch the episode as it's clear you did not the first time. Mat STOLE the bracelet. There is no WATCHING of the episode that any other conclusion can be draw! It's there out in the open. It's clear for everyone to see Mat stole it from the girl in the tavern. Wow! don't know the provenance..... I would suggest while watching TV you open your eye's, it has a tendency to help!

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, henrywho said:

Mat STOLE the bracelet. There is no WATCHING of the episode that any other conclusion can be draw!

It’s certainly intimated that Mat stole the bracelet. But he could have gambled for it or seduced the young lady into giving it to him. 

[henrywho]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

It’s certainly intimated that Mat stole the bracelet. But he could have gambled for it or seduced the young lady into giving it to him. 

I have figured someone might suggest that. If that were a possibility it should have been done better. It's my opinion he was made steal it so as to intimate that Mat would do anything for his sisters. Yet another deviation from the books in the very first episode. The fact that this theft and sale is never touched on again also reinforces it as a theft and a poor plot tool.

[henrywho]

My 2 bobs worth.

I could be in quite a unique position here. I watched season one before listening to the audio books. That's the 1st edition of the audio books narrated by Kate Reading, Michael Kramer. Not the new release narrated by Rosamund Pike. I quite enjoyed the 1st season. Then I listened to the audio books. WOW the books are excellent, engaging and captivating and to my annoyance the series deviates from the books from the very first episode and NOT in a good way. Why the script writers even felt a need to alter some of the main characters character is beyond me !

   Mat is unrecognisable in the series, in the books he is one of my favourite characters, Perrin is single until something like book 4. In the series he is married from the get go to some invented character. It goes on and on.

   As a producer it is easy to see how Rosamund Pike got one of the major roles, that and the fact that she is a excellent actress, BUT like several of the other characters she is physically incorrect. In the books Moiraine is a tiny woman, short for good reason. It is her personality her force of will that commands the respect and obedience she receives from many others throughout the books.

   Lan is supposed to be a big man and I mean Alan Ritchson type big (Reacher TV series). Daniel Henney plays the part quite well but again is not physically correct and not the character from the books.

   Hammed Animashaun plays Loial an Oger (pronounced O'gear) a true giant of a being around 2.5 metres tall. The actor does a very good job and Loial, so far, appears to be one of VERY few characters that have remained truer to the books. Why he is not afforded even the simpler effects given to Robbie Coltrane in Harry Potter is again a clear indication that the producers are only paying lip service to the books.

   So several characters are physically incorrect, these are not the only ones, don't get me started on "ageless faces" either, that's not the only issue with the series.

   Piss pore casting! Is probably the biggest issue, not just mismatched physical characteristics, but horrible performances as well. Strangely the casting of the side characters appears to quite good sadly the main characters are way off. 2 excellent performances are Zoe robins and Rosamund Pike, if only Rosamund was 160cm or less, tall. Zoe plays Nynaeve al'Meara and puts in a stellar performance as the village Wisdom out to save her friends from the evil of the White Tower and it's occupants.

Notable performances by Sophie Okonedo, Michael McElhatton, Kate Fleetwood (who plays a VERY unlikable character) also these characters are supposed to play a much larger role further into the story. Who knows what the morons at the helm of the series will do next to destroy what is an awesome story if they would leave it alone and simply follow the books more closely. Unfortunately for Barney Harris and Marcus Rutherford the characters they play are so distorted, destroyed, so far off the characters from the books that it is impossible, for me at least, to give an honest account of their performances. I state categorically that the two worst casting choices are Madeleine Madden (Egwene) and Josha Stradowski (Rand). These two are so wrong for the parts it's indescribable. It's hard to tell from this series if these two young actors know their craft or not, as they are just not suitable for these roles.

   

   What on earth gave the writers/producers the, now proven, unfounded, moronic, cataclysmically arrogant idea they could write a better story than the author (the late Robert Jordan). The stupidity behind the concept of changing anything from the book to make the series is immeasurable.

The one clearly identifiable result of this the first season is that every single person responsible for casting and writing this show should be herded together and dropped in the middle of "The Blight", they are clearly under the dark ones control and out to destroy the world of "The Wheel of Time".

The producers, writers and casting agents are proof positive that public floggings should be returned.

 

   This series should have been the next biggest thing since Game of Thrones! Instead it's mediocrity will leave it as simply mediocre, not that it actually rates that high.

  

   The simple fact is before I knew how much the series was destroying a great story I quite enjoyed, despite some cringe worthy performances, and WAS looking forward to the second season. If you have not read the books yet then you will probably enjoy the series. If have read/listened to the books you will probably have to do what I am doing, watch the series calling it something else in your head. This series is simply NOT "The Wheel of Time". I highly recommend the Audio Books narrated by Kate Reading and Michael Kramer. I am currently listening to all 14 books for the second time having listened to them for the first time early last year. Currently half way through book 4.
  

Edited April 7 by henrywho
typo's

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, henrywho said:

The fact that this theft and sale is never touched on again…

More accurately, it hasn’t been touched on since. That doesn’t mean it won’t ever be. But there is no question that Mat wasn’t handled well in S1. 
 

There are multiple factors involved, including the fact that the actor quit mid season. 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, henrywho said:

I state categorically that the two worst casting choices are Madeleine Madden and Josha Stradowski. These two are so wrong for the parts it's indescribable.

I completely disagree. I find both actors to be perfect for their roles. Indeed, I find the acting to be outstanding across the board and is, in fact, the strength of the show. 

[henrywho]

13 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Mat wasn’t handled well in S1. 
 

There are multiple factors involved, including the fact that the actor quit mid season. 

Mat is one of my favourite characters from the books. "wasn’t handled well" is an understatement, he was destroyed and for that matter Perrin even more so. Who is this sullen, dull, completely unlikable boy that can commune with wolves. Certainly not the bloke by the same name from the books! and don't get me started on Min!

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, henrywho said:

Mat is one of my favourite characters from the books. "wasn’t handled well" is an understatement, he was destroyed and for that matter Perrin even more so. Who is this sullen, dull, completely unlikable boy that can commune with wolves. Certainly not the bloke by the same name from the books! and don't get me started on Min!

No one was “destroyed”. Characters have been altered, some more than others obviously. It remains to be seen whether the more controversial changes will be paid off. 
 

I can certainly understand why people would dislike some of the changes. But then again, simply not watching is an option if you find the changes too dramatic. 

[henrywho]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

No one was “destroyed”.

 

I have to disagree. Altered beyond recognition is the same as destroyed to me. Both Mat and Perrin have been. They are NOTHING like the book characters aside from some superficial similarities. Their personalities are unrecognisable.

Edited April 7 by henrywho

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, henrywho said:

I have to disagree. Both Mat and Perrin have been. They are NOTHING like the book characters aside from some superficial similarities. Their personalities are unrecognisable.

I find Perrin very true to his book personality. Mat is certainly further away from where he is in the books but, (a) he hasn’t had much screen time; and (b) Mat wasn’t very well formed by this point in the books either. 

[henrywho]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But then again, simply not watching is an option if you find the changes too dramatic. 

As I said the Series and the books share a name and little else. Approach the series as it is, not "The Wheel of Time". Call it "The adventures of Moiraine and others" or "The Two Rivers takes a stroll about". Anything except TWoT.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, henrywho said:

As I said the Series and the books share a name and little else.

As I said, I disagree entirely. It is still the Wheel of Time, adapted for television. 

[henrywho]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I find Perrin very true to his book personality.

I'm sorry it must be a while since you read the books. Perrin is forthright, staunch and determined in the books. Not a sorrowful, moping, lummox.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, henrywho said:

I'm sorry it must be a while since you read the books. Perrin is forthright, staunch and determined in the books. Not a sorrowful, moping, lummox.

He’s forthright, staunch and determined in the show. He also, somewhat famously, considers himself to be a clumsy lummox in the books. 

[henrywho]

1 minute ago, henrywho said:

I'm sorry it must be a while since you read the books. Perrin is forthright, staunch and determined in the books. Not a sorrowful, moping, lummox.

Remember in the books he didn't kill his non existent wife and turn into a blubbering mess. His only self concerns are his eye colour and the abilities that came with them.