Verin's scar and her serious mistake

[dalic]

Does Verin's forearm scar have anything to do with her last serious mistake 70ish years ago? And does this have anything to do with her schemes over that time period? Did she learn something through her use of the dream terangreal that must be done before TG?

[Guest Majsju]

I doubt she sees that incident as a serious mistake. A serious mistake is something that comes with serious consequences, a little scar might be an annoyance if you're a very vain person, but Verin doesn't seem like that type...

[Jedimuppet]

I doubt she sees that incident as a serious mistake. A serious mistake is something that comes with serious consequences' date=' a little scar might be an annoyance if you're a very vain person, but Verin doesn't seem like that type...[/quote']

 

Well, the scar could be the only physical evidence remaining of a serious mistake. For instance if a seargent leads his platoon into fire and gets them all killed, escaping with only a scar, I think he'd be justified in feeling as if he'd made a serious mistake.

 

Without knowing the circumstances, we really can't say.

J

[Guest cwestervelt]

When Verin shows Egwene the scar she received in Tel'aran'rhiod Verin tells Egwene that, "Anaiya's Healing didn't work as well as it should have." It sounds like it was a major, maybe even life threatening injury. If the wound was that bad, the acts leading up to Verin having received it could definitely be classified as a "serious mistake."

 

It would be interesting to have some more accurate information concerning when Verin received her scar. She is rather vague as to when the injury occurred and knowing that Aniaya did the Healing doesn't help us any. From New Spring: The Novel Anaiya already had the ageless look when Moiraine was tested, so Anaiya was already an Aes Sedai for a considerable time before then.

 

I'm not really certain if it is ever stated, but I think Anaiya has a Talent concerning Healing, at least as far as serious wounds. It is Anaiya, rather than the Yellow who was present that offers to Heal Moiraine after her testing. It is Anaiya, and not a Yellow that Healed Verin after the Tel'aran'rhiod injury. And, we are told of an instance where Moiraine was seriously wounded, and it was to Anaiya, and not a Yellow that Lan took her to be Healed. If Anaiya does indeed have such a Talent, the fact that Verin maintained a scar increases the likelyhood of a potentially life threatening wound.

[Graendals favourite]

Could it be that the Healing would have actually taken place in T'a'r? That could make things more complex. Anaiya also has the connection of being the one who became interested of Egwene as a potential Dreamer.

[SinisterDeath]

As far as we the reader know, any injury in the dream world is not easilly healed. A tiny scratch could leave a cut.. So most likely it's plausable, she, got caught in one of those nightmare things, and got a rather nasty cut. Not life threatening but a nasty cut non the less.. I'm betting if you were to get a light cut on your palm, and get healed by an aes sedia, it wouldn't heal properly because, in a way, it isn't real. It's along the same lines of, your mind creating wounds that don't exist.

[The Guardian]

Yeah I was always wondering about Verin's "Big Mistake" but I think it might be something to do with the BA. I think she might be BA, cause she seems like she can lie, and if you remember when she was referring to her big mistake she said she hoped to make it better by staying by Rand and possibly redeeming herself?? The one instance I think about is when one Amrylin died and Alvarin said it was the head of the BA before her that gave the order to kill her and got in trouble by Moridin or something, so maybe Verin killed her in Tel'an'driod and got the scar in the attempt...??? Or I could be totally wrong and be just rambling some crazy end. :P

[Jedimuppet]

Yeah I was always wondering about Verin's "Big Mistake" but I think it might be something to do with the BA. I think she might be BA' date=' cause she seems like she can lie, and if you remember when she was referring to her big mistake she said she hoped to make it better by staying by Rand and possibly redeeming herself?? The one instance I think about is when one Amrylin died and Alvarin said it was the head of the BA before her that gave the order to kill her and got in trouble by Moridin or something, so maybe Verin killed her in [i']Tel'an'driod[/i] and got the scar in the attempt...??? Or I could be totally wrong and be just rambling some crazy end. :P

 

I think it has something to do with that 'vileness' twenty years ago..

J

[SinisterDeath]

An Aes Sedia being attacked by an Aielman? Foolishness! Though... maybe she found rand and tam, when they were wee lil fellars, but rand bit her. :P

[Jedimuppet]

An Aes Sedia being attacked by an Aielman? Foolishness! Though... maybe she found rand and tam' date=' when they were wee lil fellars, but rand bit her. :P[/quote']

 

I thought the 'vileness' had to do with red ajah setting up false dragons, not the aiel war..

J

[Guest cwestervelt]

As far as we the reader know' date=' any injury in the dream world is not easilly healed. A tiny scratch could leave a cut.. So most likely it's plausable, she, got caught in one of those nightmare things, and got a rather nasty cut. Not life threatening but a nasty cut non the less.. I'm betting if you were to get a light cut on your palm, and get healed by an aes sedia, it wouldn't heal properly because, in a way, it isn't real. It's along the same lines of, your mind creating wounds that don't exist.[/quote']

 

Not true. It is stated repeatedly that what happens to you there is real. We also have evidence that if you take a wound there, your physical body receives a corresponding wound, bleeding and all. There is also evidence that wounds taken there react normally to Healing. When the Salidar Aes Sedai got caught in the nightmare they got beaten up pretty bad. After being healed in the waking world, about the only visible reminder was the one Aes Sedai had a new hairdo. The physical injuries incurred appeared to be completely Healed away. Verin's wound must have been more than the run of the mill Tel'aran'rhiod wound.

 

That doesn't mean it had anything to do with her mistake though.

[Guest cwestervelt]

An Aes Sedia being attacked by an Aielman? Foolishness! Though... maybe she found rand and tam' date=' when they were wee lil fellars, but rand bit her. :P[/quote']

 

I thought the 'vileness' had to do with red ajah setting up false dragons, not the aiel war..

J

 

The "vileness" was the gentling of men immediately upon capture. That was a serious violation of Tower law. The setting up of false dragons is actually a lie concocted by Suian. Her stilling removed her from the Three Oaths and she convinced Logain to go along with the plan.

[SinisterDeath]

Umm, they only had minor wounds, and before they left, they basically had to accept that what happened there wasnt real, making the nightmare disapear...

 

The main point is, when it comes to the "dream world" or other such things. Almost "matrix style". The wounds arent real, but they are. You weren't stabbed in the real world. The wound was escentially created by your mind. That is why they are generally harder to heal. It could also be said, that the more you think that wound Is real, the harder is to heal..

The real question is... The aymaar believe the world is just an illusion, of the real world, a dream... So wouldnt it be.. odd if they went to the dream world? *we know that if you are a hero of the horn, and go to the tower/tel'dreamworld, that when you die in the "real world" you go back to the tower/dream, however if you die in the dream, you are "almost" dead forever.

[rd2000]

I kind of assumed the "vileness" had to do with the previous Amyrlyn's death. The 20 years was just too right to be anything else in my mind. Cadsuane was fishing because she believed one, two, or all three of the Aes Sedai she was talking to might have been involved. It appeared from the way she changed the subject quickly, she got some info from the reactions to the questions. And, it seems that Annaura could lie....from her answer.

[Bob T Dwarf]

No. The "vileness" was the summary gentling of any man who could channel.

 

Verin's "last serious mistake" happened 50 years prior to that.

[rd2000]

No. The "vileness" was the summary gentling of any man who could channel.

 

Verin's "last serious mistake" happened 50 years prior to that.

 

Where does it say that? I don't doubt you, I would just like to be able to verify.Also, Everyone in Rand-land ASSUMES that any man that can channel will be gentled, I assumed it was de-facto Aes Sedai policy to gentle men who could channel. So why would it become "vile" to anyone?

[Anajon]

I have read all kind of theories about Verin - that she can time travel, that she is from the AOL, that she is Mat's daughter come back from the future etc ...

 

BUT could it be that she was ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod - like Brigitte?

 

Healing did not work on her as it should - Verin knows an awful lot about all kind of stuff - maybe she remembers past lives, she seems to be able to get around the three oaths, but I don't think she is black.

 

Brigitte was only saved by bonding, don't think Verin is bonded to anyone in that way but she has secrets of her own.

[Bob T Dwarf]

There were certain forms that must be followed.

 

Logain points that out. He was taken to Tar Valon and "benefited" from whatever passed for justice in such a case, before he was gentled.

 

Immediately after the Aiel War, the Reds went on a bit of a spree, gentling any man who could channel that they found, on the spot. When the Tower learned of it, those Reds who were proven to be involved were disciplined and exiled.

 

Verin's mistake happened 70 years ago, not 20 years ago.

[UrsulaLV]

Another Verin question-

 

The Great Hunt, pg. 195, Verin says,

"Moiraine Sedai sent me"

 

Does anyone remember if Moiraine ever confirmed sending Verin after the expedition with Ingtar and the boys to retrieve the Horn and the dagger?

 

That is not getting around the Three Oaths, that would be a LIE.

[Guest oos]

Another Verin question-

 

The Great Hunt' date=' pg. 195, Verin says,

"Moiraine Sedai sent me"

 

...

 

That is not getting around the Three Oaths, that would be a LIE.[/quote']

 

 

Nope, it could be working around the Three Oaths - Verin never states where Moiraine sent her.

[KellySedai]

Moiraine also states later that she DID NOT send Verin to Rand and becomes very suspicious of her after that. I personally think that Verin has figured out that the Oath Rod can remove the oaths and has done so for her own reasons. I cannot believe that she's Black. I think the next book is going to have some fantastic revelations about my favorite Aes Sedai. ;)

[Guest cwestervelt]

Based on the scene where she is "Compelling" Beldeine, she is not Black and is bound by the 3 Oaths. The scene is full of mental song and dance about how she isn't lying.

 

Verin's being sent could have been nothing more than her "interpretation" of a comment by Moiraine saying how someone should accompany them on the search for the horn.

[dalic]

Maybe Verin did remove the Oaths with the Rod. She's no dummy so she only tells a bonified lie under extreme circumstances. Or maybe she didn't remove the Oaths and it's kind of like a lie detector test. She's figured out how to make herself believe beyond any doubt that her lie is true.

 

Whatever the state of her Oaths, Verin has committed life, body, and soul to her 70 year project. She is willing to debase herself by bowing and scraping to Wise Ones with no thought than that she wished her knees didn't hurt for curtsying so much. No shame whatsoever. Again Verin is no dummy so this is further proof that whatever her project is, it is extremely important.

[Deadsy]

Umm' date=' they only had minor wounds, and before they left, they basically had to accept that what happened there wasnt real, making the nightmare disapear...

 

The main point is, when it comes to the "dream world" or other such things. Almost "matrix style". The wounds arent real, but they are. You weren't stabbed in the real world. The wound was escentially created by your mind. That is why they are generally harder to heal. It could also be said, that the more you think that wound Is real, the harder is to heal[/quote']

 

I don't know about this. Moghedien, who's one of the strongest Forsaken in T'A'R, was shot with an arrow and when she woke up she was bleeding all over and Chesmal (I think it was) healed her. There was no mention of any trouble healing it.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Umm' date=' they only had minor wounds, and before they left, they basically had to accept that what happened there wasnt real, making the nightmare disapear...

 

The main point is, when it comes to the "dream world" or other such things. Almost "matrix style". The wounds arent real, but they are. You weren't stabbed in the real world. The wound was escentially created by your mind. That is why they are generally harder to heal. It could also be said, that the more you think that wound Is real, the harder is to heal[/quote']

 

I don't know about this. Moghedien, who's one of the strongest Forsaken in T'A'R, was shot with an arrow and when she woke up she was bleeding all over and Chesmal (I think it was) healed her. There was no mention of any trouble healing it.

 

Moghedien was not one of the strongest Forsaken in Tel'aran'rhiod, she was the strongest. According to the BWB she had more ability there than Lanfear and Lanfear claimed Tel'aran'rhiod as her own domain.

 

It was Chesmal and it was a very serious wound. By the description it was clean through from back to front and punctured a lung too. Moghedien was bleeding out internally and externally. Not to mention in danger of drowning on her own blood. The healing was portrayed as routine.

 

The Fires of Heaven Chapter 34 "A Silver Arrow"

 

"But you are goin gto bring her to me like a pet-" Moghedien screamed as a silver arrow suddenly stuck its head out from below her right breast.

 

Then from a couple paragraphs later:

Liandrin leaped to her feet as the door to Moghedien's bedchamber crashed open and the Chosen staggered into the sitting room, blood soaking her silk shift. Chesmal and Temaile rushed to her side, each taking an arm to keep the woman on her feet, but Liandrin remained by her chair. The others were out; perhaps out of Amador, for all Liandrin knew. Moghedien told only what she wanted the hearer to know, and punished questions she did not like.

 

"What happened?" Temaile gasped.

 

Moghedien's brief look should have fried her where she stood. "You have some small ability with Healing," the Chosen told Chesmal thickly. Blood stained her libs, trickled from the corner of her mouth in an increasing stream. "Do it. Now, fool!"

 

Then the healing:

In moments it was done. The glow around Chesmal disappeared, and Moghedien's heels settled to the blue-and-green patterned carpet. Without Temaile's support, she might have fallen. Only a part of the strength for Healing came from the Power; the rest from the person being Healed. Whatever wound had caused all that bleeding would be gone, but Moghedien was surely as week as if she had lain in bed an invalid for weeks.