How different is too different?

[CaddySedai]

Also if someone is a Sanderson fan - they should read the books because he helped to complete them - the tv show should not weigh in on that. 

 

That is a weird hill to die on: “This adaptation I don’t like will put me off to reading a series that is almost legendary in the genre - written by an author some considered to be the spiritual successor to J.R.R. and finished by one of the greatest fantasy authors of our day who I am a big fan of.”

 

Methinks one may not be as big a Sanderson fan as they doth proclaim. lol

[Dagon Thyne]

There aren't actually that many scenes in great hunt that have to be told in their entire time.  For example a lot of the early book is just the party traveling across land.

 

A lot of the things that they do can be merged into a couple of scenes.

 

The only things that need to be clearly shown are them finding the fade that Fain killed, And maybe the visions that rand had when they went into That one village.  And all of those scenes could happen in a single village that they've come acrinstead of multiple villages.  

 

I'm still unsure whether or not they will use the portal stones are not.  They aren't central to the overall plot and are just there to add lore.  So they can be actually cut away without changing the plot.  

I could easily see them having rand get separated from the group after a trolloc attack or something like that, And meet up with serene, And travel with her Without actually Traveling through one of the portalstones.

 

 

[WhiteVeils]

16 hours ago, Cipher said:

IIRC here are some important points:

-Elayne intro (Gawyn and Galad?) Omitted from first season.

-Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne have to get some pot cleaning and spankings done in the WT...er training.

-Mat removed from Falme? If he is at TV--I guess he can hitch a ride with the wonder girls when duped by Liandrin.  His journey post TV in TDR is good Mat character building, Is that gone, but that is where Bayle Domon(1st appearance for show) and Thom come back into the picture.

-Horn Chase

-Lord Rand and Sheinaran story line.

-Perrin trained by Elyas.

-Lanfear?

-Rand needs to be in Falme to best Turak and have his sky moment.

-Girls in Falme to have quality time with the Seanchan.

-Loial healed.

-Moiraine's shield removed.

-Intro if Avienda.

-Faile? Gaul and his girls?

-Omit Cairhien and Alludra. Omit Rand's reunion with Thom? Portal stones or back into the Ways?

 

That only touches a smidgen of book 3.

Seems like a tall order

I've said it before, but I did a version that combines them here: A Version of Tomorrow - WhiteVeils - The Wheel of Time (TV), Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan [Archive of Our Own]

But things are much easier than you think.

We are introduced to Elayne when she meets Egwene as a roomate in the White Tower. We know this...the clip was shown at a convention.  We can meet Galad and Gawyn also through Egwene.  Later, well, Rand can fall off a wall anywhere to meet Elayne himself.  
We know Mat will be at Falme. We don't know how he gets there...he can go with the girls, or he can follow after them to rescue them.  Thom won't be in S2, but Bayle Domon will be.  Note: That could be because the actor was not available.
Horn Chase: Horn chase is happening, focused around Perrin.  We have screenshots of Perrin and the Sheinarans.
Lord Rand: From the shots we've seen, Rand will get a glowup, but it won't be exactly the same.  We don't know how yet but there's lots of ways this is done. In my version, Selene takes him to Barthanes and Barthanes dresses him up. Rand's role with the Sheinarans will be taken by Perrin...Perrin needs the focus.
Hurin will be being replaced by Elyas, which eliminates an extra set of powers and combines a role. If Perrin could follow Fain, Elyas could. That gives Perrin the chance to train 'on the job' and combines the stories.  We know this is happening...again, screenshots.

Rand already starts the season separated from the others, so there's plenty of opportunity to meet Lanfear before he meets up with them.

Rand is /likely/ in Falme.  We don't know why he goes there yet...in my version it is to save Mat and the girls just like the books.  Fain is luring them to Falme which is how he finds it.  That said, do not be surprised if they split up Rand's hero moments. Rather than fighting Turak AND Ishamael in the sky, there's a good chance ends up fighting just Ishamael.  If Perrin fights Lord Turok, that gives him a real hero moment, which he didn't get S1. Mat gets blowing the Horn, which is a real hero moment for him too.
We've seen screenshots of Egwene in a Seanchen collar so we know that is happening.

Loial healing: We don't know how badly he's hurt. This could happen before the season starts or it could happen later when they reach a stedding. Or it could require a dagger.

Moiraine's shield lifts when Ishamael dies, if nothing else.
Aviendha, Gaul, Bain, and Chiad can all be in the same group of Aiel.  We likely meet them along Perrin's journey travelling just like he met Urien, though adding a cage encounter on the road isn't a big lift.

Faile finding out they're searching for the horn will send her on their heels, and she doesn't need to be fully integrated to be introduced this season.

The Portal Stones will likely be combined with the Waygates, which explains why their configuration is different than in the books.  Cahrien is in...we've seen it. Rand goes their after their time alone and meets up with Moiraine and Lan.

It's all possible.  As long as you are flexible to understand it won't be just like the books.  

 

 

 

[Cipher]

5 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

I've said it before, but I did a version that combines them here: A Version of Tomorrow - WhiteVeils - The Wheel of Time (TV), Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan [Archive of Our Own]

But things are much easier than you think.

We are introduced to Elayne when she meets Egwene as a roomate in the White Tower. We know this...the clip was shown at a convention.  We can meet Galad and Gawyn also through Egwene.  Later, well, Rand can fall off a wall anywhere to meet Elayne himself.  
We know Mat will be at Falme. We don't know how he gets there...he can go with the girls, or he can follow after them to rescue them.  Thom won't be in S2, but Bayle Domon will be.  Note: That could be because the actor was not available.
Horn Chase: Horn chase is happening, focused around Perrin.  We have screenshots of Perrin and the Sheinarans.
Lord Rand: From the shots we've seen, Rand will get a glowup, but it won't be exactly the same.  We don't know how yet but there's lots of ways this is done. In my version, Selene takes him to Barthanes and Barthanes dresses him up. Rand's role with the Sheinarans will be taken by Perrin...Perrin needs the focus.
Hurin will be being replaced by Elyas, which eliminates an extra set of powers and combines a role. If Perrin could follow Fain, Elyas could. That gives Perrin the chance to train 'on the job' and combines the stories.  We know this is happening...again, screenshots.

Rand already starts the season separated from the others, so there's plenty of opportunity to meet Lanfear before he meets up with them.

Rand is /likely/ in Falme.  We don't know why he goes there yet...in my version it is to save Mat and the girls just like the books.  Fain is luring them to Falme which is how he finds it.  That said, do not be surprised if they split up Rand's hero moments. Rather than fighting Turak AND Ishamael in the sky, there's a good chance ends up fighting just Ishamael.  If Perrin fights Lord Turok, that gives him a real hero moment, which he didn't get S1. Mat gets blowing the Horn, which is a real hero moment for him too.
We've seen screenshots of Egwene in a Seanchen collar so we know that is happening.

Loial healing: We don't know how badly he's hurt. This could happen before the season starts or it could happen later when they reach a stedding. Or it could require a dagger.

Moiraine's shield lifts when Ishamael dies, if nothing else.
Aviendha, Gaul, Bain, and Chiad can all be in the same group of Aiel.  We likely meet them along Perrin's journey travelling just like he met Urien, though adding a cage encounter on the road isn't a big lift.

Faile finding out they're searching for the horn will send her on their heels, and she doesn't need to be fully integrated to be introduced this season.

The Portal Stones will likely be combined with the Waygates, which explains why their configuration is different than in the books.  Cahrien is in...we've seen it. Rand goes their after their time alone and meets up with Moiraine and Lan.

It's all possible.  As long as you are flexible to understand it won't be just like the books.  

 

 

 

Decent predictions, with a good focus on making it true to the spirit of the source.  I absolutely hate the injections of Rafe and crew, I know your opinion is more accepting of those changes. 

-If Mat is "cured" of his darkness and they incorporate some of his character building from TDR I will be pleased. 

-I want Liandrin's duping of the girls too.  That creates great tension, but I don't want it to be telegraphed for the non-readers.  I want it to be a devastating twist that drives home the peril of the Seanchan.

-I found the Lord Rand and Ingtar relationship from the book as a great storyline that really paid off in the end.  If that is not included I think the writers are as clueless as I found them in S1.

-No place for Bayle in your synopsis. Will be interesting to see where he comes in.

[WhiteVeils]

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

Decent predictions, with a good focus on making it true to the spirit of the source.  I absolutely hate the injections of Rafe and crew, I know your opinion is more accepting of those changes. 

-If Mat is "cured" of his darkness and they incorporate some of his character building from TDR I will be pleased. 

-I want Liandrin's duping of the girls too.  That creates great tension, but I don't want it to be telegraphed for the non-readers.  I want it to be a devastating twist that drives home the peril of the Seanchan.

-I found the Lord Rand and Ingtar relationship from the book as a great storyline that really paid off in the end.  If that is not included I think the writers are as clueless as I found them in S1.

-No place for Bayle in your synopsis. Will be interesting to see where he comes in.

Thank you.  I'm not sure where Bayle will fit in. He could fit in a couple of places I can think of and be very true to the books.
I think the Rand/Ingtar relationship may well be filled by a Perrin/Ingtar relationship, it's true.  But you can hit all of Ingtar's beats that way. And Perrin does need to learn leadership just as much as Rand does.   In the books he does take it when Rand is away from the group so it's not like it is never there.  Rand may have other opportunities for leadership that come up, whether with the Aiel, or other.

[Cipher]

20 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

Also if someone is a Sanderson fan - they should read the books because he helped to complete them - the tv show should not weigh in on that. 

 

That is a weird hill to die on: “This adaptation I don’t like will put me off to reading a series that is almost legendary in the genre - written by an author some considered to be the spiritual successor to J.R.R. and finished by one of the greatest fantasy authors of our day who I am a big fan of.”

 

Methinks one may not be as big a Sanderson fan as they doth proclaim. lol

I might show up one day with EOTW in tow trying to get him to read it.  I personally prefer Sandersons books in the WOT to 5 and half of his books I listened to on audio format.  But I think it is because of my investment in WOT, a more realized world, and better characterizations.  It makes me sad that the real Mat died with RJ.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Cipher

[Cipher]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:51 PM, WhiteVeils said:

Thank you.  I'm not sure where Bayle will fit in. He could fit in a couple of places I can think of and be very true to the books.
I think the Rand/Ingtar relationship may well be filled by a Perrin/Ingtar relationship, it's true.  But you can hit all of Ingtar's beats that way. And Perrin does need to learn leadership just as much as Rand does.   In the books he does take it when Rand is away from the group so it's not like it is never there.  Rand may have other opportunities for leadership that come up, whether with the Aiel, or other.

After thinking about this, I believe the Lord Rand story line is crucial to his development.  When Rand assumes leadership in Tear it was the Lord Rand character building that led to his readiness for it.  Without this well described progression Rand becoming a king like leader is completely implausible.

 

Perrin develops in the Battle of the 2Rs.  He had lots of help in Tam, Abel, Alanna and Verin to guide him and help him to accept the role as leader.

[WhiteVeils]

3 hours ago, Cipher said:

After thinking about this, I believe the Lord Rand story line is crucial to his development.  When Rand assumes leadership in Tear it was the Lord Rand character building that led to his readiness for it.  Without this well described progression Rand becoming a king like leader is completely implausible.

 

Perrin develops in the Battle of the 2Rs.  He had lots of help in Tam, Abel, Alanna and Verin to guide him and help him to accept the role as leader.

As I said, there is more than one way for Rand to learn this sort of leadership.  It doesn't have to happen the way it did in the books. 
There's a difference between 'I think the way the books did it was the best way and it would be hard to imitate' and 'completely implausible.'  We /have/ to be flexible and understand they will do things differently. They have to.  We can't say it is implausible or not until we see what they do.

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

As I said, there is more than one way for Rand to learn this sort of leadership.  It doesn't have to happen the way it did in the books. 
There's a difference between 'I think the way the books did it was the best way and it would be hard to imitate' and 'completely implausible.'  We /have/ to be flexible and understand they will do things differently. They have to.  We can't say it is implausible or not until we see what they do.

I think this is quite true.

 

I personally think we won't get the tear arc until after season 3 so his Lord story line could develop during his leadership with the Aiel.

 

It is also possible that they include it in his Cairhien story for season 2 as we don't have a firm grasp of what he will be doing before Moiraine shows up.

[Mommycara]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:01 AM, Cipher said:

It makes me sad that the real Mat died with RJ.

Yes!

[phanooglestixs]

Going to keep giving the show a shot into season 3.  The deal breaker for me will be the Stone of Tear.  If the show skips all of that and goes straight into journeying to the Aiel Waste then I will be done.  The fact that I did not get to see the chase from Fal Dara to Falme and the reflection worlds of the Stone Pillars ruined season 2 for me.  The characters ended up being where they needed to be by the end of the season, but the journey was so different that, once again I wonder why these film people try "adaptations" rather than just creating their own unique world.  Lazy story tellers.