Siuan and Moiraine’s Relationship

[JenniferL]

Let’s make a thread for this. 
 

Personally, I like that they are still a couple in 998 NE. You can see the beginnings of them drifting apart from a physical/ romantic relationship in New Spring, but I think it makes more sense that they still have this intense relationship with each other since they cannot confide in anyone else about the Dragon. 

[Jaysen Gore]

I also buried it in my review, but their relationship appears to be governed by the rules of the Athan Miere - the one who commands in public must obey in private. Which makes sense for someone from Tear. Not so much someone from Cairhien, but there you go.

 

I give this change:

 

??

[TheDreadReader]

Overall, I liked them adding to the relationship between them.  It fits with the show's overall approach of trying to build up some of the secondary main character backstories up a little.  Moiraine's journeys have a more personal cost to them.

 

I really didn't like the oath rod scene though.... it was a little too over the top for me and that time could have been used better elsewhere.

 

 

[Arie]

I just appreciate how tasteful it was. Over all, it left nothing to question but didn't push it out there like GoT. (it would seem like a waste of screen time). 

 

And Lan's "Give her my Love" was such a nice segway blessing on the matter.

[JenniferL]

Yeah, there’s an overall lack of male gaze in this show that I appreciate. And the sexy times are handled in much the same way Jordan did. Two people start canoodling and the lights go out. Later, they wake up in the sex igloo/ sex hut and chat and that’s it. I don’t mind more explicit sex scenes, but it seems like so many shows try to one up each other in graphic nudity that it’s honestly boring now. 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/10/2021 at 11:16 PM, JenniferL said:

there’s an overall lack of male gaze in this show that I appreciate.

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Alanna's dress tho...

[JenniferL]

She wears something with a little bosom to it. But there’s no emphasis on her chest or any other part of her body. We saw a partly naked bath attendant, but she was shown in a non sexual context. 

[Therese Sedai]

  On 12/10/2021 at 11:28 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Alanna's dress tho...

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Alanna knew they were about to be torn apart by the Amyrlin. Our girl understood the assignment. ?

[flinn]

 I like it, but I wonder how that is going to effect the Thom and Gareth side stories.

[JenniferL]

Yeah, I’m wondering that as well. At this point, Thom and Moiraine haven’t even met and I don’t think they spend much time together outside of the first book when they are traveling to Baerlon. So they might drop that one altogether. But there’s still potential for Siuan and Gareth. I have no issues with Siuan and/ or Moiraine being bi or pan. 

[mogi68]

I'm fine with Moiraine and Siuan having a thing but I dont really want to see any sexual content on the show tbh. It don't think it really belongs and it feels a little gratitutous. I felt the same about the Rand/Egwene scene in EP1

[ArrylT]

Like with a lot of scenes from WOT, I feel that the scenes involving their relationship can be viewed under several different lens - and that is part of what helps me appreciate how close in spirit this show is staying true to the books.

 

1 - 2 people loving one another

2 - Duty vs. love

3 - How our career/Position affects our love life

4 - Sacrifice

5 - Long distance

6 - Secretive

 

And that doesnt even get into the part where eventually we want society to be like this all the time.   2 women? Great go for it!  2 men? Great go for it!  1 of each? Great go for it!  And so forth.  Let people live the love/sex lives that fit them best - and no need to say anything other than that.    

 

The books always made me feel like there were several different concepts to consider at any given time, and I get that sense here too. 

[Therese Sedai]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:11 AM, flinn said:

 I like it, but I wonder how that is going to effect the Thom and Gareth side stories.

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They could still stay true to the books from here on. Minimise Siuan and Moiraine’s contact with one another and pair them with their respective warders. I wouldn’t begrudge them for choosing to go this route since the point about 20+ years of secrets and sacrifice has already been made. 

I hope they stay lovers though. Thom and Gareth could still be their warders. The overall story would remain the same. 

 

[DojoToad]

@JenniferL - my thread "On your knees!" was locked but referred to another thread.  Is this it?

 

My thread was more about the phrase uttered than the relationship between Siuan and Moiraine.  I guess some people had a problem with the phrase being used in the bedroom.  My question was it's relation to Rand at Dumai's Wells.

 

So is this the right place to ask that question or not?

 

Thank you.

[TheDreadReader]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:41 AM, Therese Sedai said:

They could still stay true to the books from here on. Minimise Siuan and Moiraine’s contact with one another and pair them with their respective warders. I wouldn’t begrudge them for choosing to go this route since the point about 20+ years of secrets and sacrifice has already been made. 

 

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I agree.   It highlights that their choices have a personal cost for them.   

 

 

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:41 AM, Therese Sedai said:

I hope they stay lovers though. Thom and Gareth could still be their warders. The overall story would remain the same. 

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I always find it fascinating how important minor little plotlines like Thom and Gareth are to some fans.   I'd cut Gareth out of the show on the first day. ?

 

[Skipp]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:43 AM, DojoToad said:

@JenniferL - my thread "On your knees!" was locked but referred to another thread.  Is this it?

 

My thread was more about the phrase uttered than the relationship between Siuan and Moiraine.  I guess some people had a problem with the phrase being used in the bedroom.  My question was it's relation to Rand at Dumai's Wells.

 

So is this the right place to ask that question or not?

 

Thank you.

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I don't see it as a reference to Dumai's Wells personally.  It was Moiraine calling back to the earlier scene where Suian made her prostrate herself in the Hall of the Amrylin.  Once they get their alone time Moiraine uses the same phrase to repsond to Suian's "You've been gone such a long time".  Just all part of their sexy times.

[Therese Sedai]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:47 AM, TheDreadReader said:

 

I agree.   It highlights that their choices have a personal cost for them.   

 

 

 

I always find it fascinating how important minor little plotlines like Thom and Gareth are to some fans.   I'd cut Gareth out of the show on the first day. ?

 

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I feel the same way about Gareth. But like you say some people really care about these minor characters.
 

They could really invest into the personal cost of this mission because ultimately

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They don’t get to grow old together and Moiraine has to bear that loss knowing that one of them made the ultimate sacrifice. 

 

Call me silly but that’s good storytelling and no one would say otherwise if it was a m/f pairing. 

[DojoToad]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:52 AM, Skipp said:

I don't see it as a reference to Dumai's Wells personally.  It was Moiraine calling back to the earlier scene where Suian made her prostrate herself in the Hall of the Amrylin.  Once they get their alone time Moiraine uses the same phrase to repsond to Suian's "You've been gone such a long time".  Just all part of their sexy times.

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I get Siuan and Moiraine throwing the same words at each other - and thought it was appropriate and fun for Moiraine to throw them back at Siuan.

 

But I thought they were the exact words Rand used with the captured Aes Sedai - eliciting a grin from Taim.

 

Skipp says 'no'.  Anyone else have thoughts?

[Skipp]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:58 AM, DojoToad said:

I get Siuan and Moiraine throwing the same words at each other - and thought it was appropriate and fun for Moiraine to throw them back at Siuan.

 

But I thought they were the exact words Rand used with the captured Aes Sedai - eliciting a grin from Taim.

 

Skipp says 'no'.  Anyone else have thoughts?

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It is similar but I believe Taim says  '"Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon," he said softly, "or you will be knelt."'

 

EDIT

 

My mistake, just before this Taim quote Rand says

“I forget nothing, Aes Sedai,” Rand said coldly. “I said six could come, but I count nine. I said you would be on an equal footing with the Tower emissaries, and for bringing nine, you will be. They are on their knees, Aes Sedai. Kneel!”

 

A different phrasing and I easily understand how book readers could see a reference between the scenes.  But I think readers would more likely draw comparisons to when Suian uses the phrase in the Hall rather than Moiraine using it in the bedroom.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Skipp
Added quote.

[JenniferL]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:43 AM, DojoToad said:

@JenniferL - my thread "On your knees!" was locked but referred to another thread.  Is this it?

 

My thread was more about the phrase uttered than the relationship between Siuan and Moiraine.  I guess some people had a problem with the phrase being used in the bedroom.  My question was it's relation to Rand at Dumai's Wells.

 

So is this the right place to ask that question or not?

 

Thank you.

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Your question got answered, so I don’t know why you’d ask it again. But I was definitely inspired by you to create a thread with a broader purpose. 

[JenniferL]

  On 12/11/2021 at 12:58 AM, DojoToad said:

I get Siuan and Moiraine throwing the same words at each other - and thought it was appropriate and fun for Moiraine to throw them back at Siuan.

 

But I thought they were the exact words Rand used with the captured Aes Sedai - eliciting a grin from Taim.

 

Skipp says 'no'.  Anyone else have thoughts?

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Why would they make a reference to an event that hasn’t happened yet? 

[king of nowhere]

regarding possible stories with thom, gareth, and even siuan's death in the last book, i wouldn't expect the show to follow the books necessarily. the adaptation has already shown to be loose on the secondary arcs.

 

i mean, they didn't change who the dragon is. nor did they change his love interest. but secondary characters? yes, they'd change that on a whim. they even gave perrin a wife, just to provide motivation for his "must keep berserk nature under tight control" arc.

my guess is that the moiraine-thom stuff never happens. as for siuan, her whole arc may turn out completely different.

[DojoToad]

  On 12/11/2021 at 1:16 AM, JenniferL said:

Why would they make a reference to an event that hasn’t happened yet? 

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They wouldn’t. I’m thinking this is another change in the show from the books. Either Rand will not now utter those words, or the meaning is less impactful because it has already been done. 

[mogi68]

It's coincidental

[JenniferL]

Yeah, I think you’re reaching there.