Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[mogi68]

40 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I did notice when at the entrance to the Ways when Moiriane was asked if she still didn't know who the Dragon was that she never answered the question.  I found this interesting and thought maybe she does suspect who it could be.

I think she knows it's Rand

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

I think she knows it's Rand

But that can't be 'cause gingers have no soul!

[Agitel]

I feel like if she knew it was Rand she would have told Siuan, or at least not have been so clearly frustrated and confused during their conversation on it.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Agitel

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, TheMountain said:

Data can be meaningless without context. It's not just a straight word count that matters, but the focus of the story, events that happen, characters they interact with, things they say, etc. I think it's pretty obvious to most people that Rand has been sidelined so far.

 

Butter....saves marriages.

The things I learned today.

[Yojimbo]

2 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

I think she knows it's Rand

I always got the feeling that Moraine thought it was Rand almost from the very beginning in the book.   One of my major gripes is how they have diminished her.  She seems so less decisive and in control in the show.    

[Flamen]

Moiraine " Lews and 100 male Aes Sedai thought they could contain darkness itself ...... The arrogance". Also Moiraine - Let's go directly to the Dark Ones prison and yeet 5 villagers at him. All I have to say about the quality of the writhing on that show.

[JenniferL]

It’s quality writhing. 

[DreadParrot]

I don’t think Moiraine is playing coy and actually knows. If that is the case she continued to play coy while at her secret lovers hidden love nest. You can’t have her deceive the legit one of two people she trusts completely. She suspects nynaeve is not because of the age otherwise I don’t think she is operating any clearer than the viewer. 
 

Im very aggravated by the exclusions of materials needed as a viewer. Im fine with deviating from the books and remixing elements of the story. But when your juggling requires knowledge of the books to hasp every the screen story make sense it’s infuriating to not include those details. Example…watched the first episode with a non reader friend. Some of his comments

 

Who is the Ring Wraith looking guy? Villian? (No explanation of fade or their ability)

 

so Moiraine is the college graduate wizard and these forty women who just chucked the girl in the river are home schooled? How many girls do they kill each year in the river? He thought the whole women’s circle were channelers…cause no context given.

 

how do the Trollocs know who to take? Cause if it’s teenagers they just killed that dude who fits the age description at the dance? Why did they drag off the Wisdom instead of killing her, cause they don’t seem that smart…

 

these were all easily fixed problems that were created by diverting from the story. Because rand and tam don’t “see” the fade we don’t get any whispers of what they might do. We don’t get Moiraine explaining the spark and ability to sense a woman knowing if another woman can channel. This is done to allow the nynaeve mass heal and shock the viewer with a surprise. because Moiraine doesn’t get further into the origins and ask about the manner of the EF 5 births we don’t have the foreshadowing of rand being adopted and now we have The Who is the Dragon nonsense. 
 

you can deviate but you need to still the information to us in some other fashion…

 

 

 

 

 

 

[orbops]

2 hours ago, TheMountain said:

Data can be meaningless without context. It's not just a straight word count that matters, but the focus of the story, events that happen, characters they interact with, things they say, etc. I think it's pretty obvious to most people that Rand has been sidelined so far.

 

 

Remember that Amazon said early on that the initial focus of season 1 would be from Moiraine's POV. 

[ForsakenPotato]

I also think Moiraine has suspicions of who the dragon is, but doesn't feel certain enough to bring only that person through the ways. She should be wary of Rand from the very beginning because of his appearance and his sword, and notably she has mentioned neither on screen. I think she does not want any of them to know her suspicions, because she has more power over them keeping them in the dark and knows they are more likely to trust each other as a group than her alone.

 

That said, I agree it's weird she didn't discuss it with Siuan in ep 6, which either means she mentioned that info offscreen to avoid giving anything away to viewers or (as the show seems to want us to believe), hasn't noticed anything odd about Rand and doesn't really believe any of the prophecies. Maybe we'll be able to tell which later, based on her reaction to his first channeling.

[TheMountain]

1 minute ago, orbops said:

Remember that Amazon said early on that the initial focus of season 1 would be from Moiraine's POV. 

It's more than that though. As I said earlier, Nynaeve and Egwene have gotten 6 episodes of character building, while Bland al'Thor is barely a character in his own story.

[Agitel]

If I had to rank the attention the boys have gotten, I'd say Mat > Rand > Perrin. I do think we've gotten enough to characterize Rand. Loyal, wanted a simple life, stubborn, a bit hot headed at times, caring, dutiful. He's not a blank slate, but I wish he and all the EF5 got a little more focus. I feel like Perrin's suffered the most. They have him kill his wife and then basically shuffle about for six episodes feeling like a fifth wheel. Season isn't done yet, but still. He hasn't really done much to define himself as a character beyond accidental wife killing and being wolf boy. I do like what little we get with him talking about the accident with Egwene, but it just doesn't feel like enough. I hope that changes before the end of the season.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Agitel

[Sabio]

That is Perrin in the first few books, he's the one who quietly goes along.  As Rand argues with Moiraine, Perrin is more of the silently sit there waiting to find out what to do.  I don't think it's until book 4, when he goes back to the Two Rivers is when starts having a personality.  Mostly you get thoughts from Perrin and lot of smelling.

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

That is Perrin in the first few books, he's the one who quietly goes along.  As Rand argues with Moiraine, Perrin is more of the silently sit there waiting to find out what to do.  I don't think it's until book 4, when he goes back to the Two Rivers is when starts having a personality.  Mostly you get thoughts from Perrin and lot of smelling.

He does start to argue and question Moiraine in the third book when they are chasing Rand down.  But honestly none of the boys get much character development in the first book. Rand starts his development at the very end of EotW and continues into tGH.  But for the first 95% of the book, he really gets nothing.  Mat gets a little bit of development in tGH but doesn't become his own character until he is healed in the Tower.

[ArrylT]

I have been giving this a lot of thought, and as I re-read EOTW while watching WOTTV I've decided that I prefer the way Rand Al'Thor is being portrayed in the show more than in the 1st book.  IE for me it is an improvement.

 

 

The reason for this is in part the medium and the perspective.   As we know, the 1st book is mostly told from Rands POV, whereas in the show we're seeing more of Rand through the eyes of the other characters AND our own eyes. 

 

It certainly helps that I feel Josha Stradowski is pretty much perfect in his portrayal of Rand. 

 

I really liked Barney Harris interpretation of Mat on screen, and while I will be sad to see him go, I am still excited and intrigued to see how Donal Finn.  Having the news made before the season aired was the best of a bad situation, for me.  

 

I'm not sure how I'd feel if something happened and a new Rand was needed *knock on wood*

 

Now that they are almost all back together, quite looking forward to seeing the group in the Ways and especially more Rand scenes (I certainly liked ep5/6 but more Rand yay).  It is a funny dichotmy to be enjoying.   Having another of my favorite characters (Moiraine) become more of a focal point, while still wanting more Rand.    IE more Rand, but not less Moiraine. ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LordyLord]

So I saw leaks for episode 7 and 8 on reddit....

 

Wow looks like we see  where the Budget went to......

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, Flamen said:

Moiraine " Lews and 100 male Aes Sedai thought they could contain darkness itself ...... The arrogance". Also Moiraine - Let's go directly to the Dark Ones prison and yeet 5 villagers at him. All I have to say about the quality of the writhing on that show.

Why is this bad writing? Seems pretty solid to me - blind to her own (and the Tower's) arrogance, Moiraine is about to walk into a trap. Irony. Juxtaposition. I love it.

[ArrylT]

I am slowly but surely becoming less bothered by it not being a literal adaptation of the EOTW plot.  The fact that the world comes so much to life, especially now that I've seen Tar Valon, is more than enough evidence for me to see this as a very good adaption of the spirit & spine & heart of WOT. 

 

Re-reading the book at the same time has allowed me to enjoy WOT to the fullest because I am now

 

(a) able to enjoy the EOTW plot & therefore not feel too disappointed if something is not in the show - because it is right there on the pages for me.

(b) enjoy the surprises by the timeline of the show, while immersed in the WOT

(c) enjoy the interaction of the WOT fandom, especially all the newer fans.

 

Sort of like 3 perspectives to enjoy for the price of 1.  

 

Basically I feel as though I am getting both the familiarity of the books that you feel after the first couple of reads and the suspense/surprise from the show while in the world I love.  After a while with GOT I sort of got that - I think I know where this is going but do I?   Like I said on the EP6 thread, even though in my head I knew this was the logical jumping off point for Barney Harris, having that ending was still a shock (sort of on par with the Dana being a Darkfriend reveal)

 

Agreed yes theoretically it should be conceivable that they can re-open the waygate - but that still didnt impact the WOW did that just happen moment.  

 

And so far my theory about Odd vs Even episodes is holding true (for me)

 

1 / 3 /5 have had endings that are more about the connection / wonder what will happen next 

2 / 4 / 6 have had endings that are more Did that just happen or Yes it happened or WOW

 

In the end - sorry Tom Braden but 8 is not enough. ?

[swollymammoth]

23 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Why is this bad writing? Seems pretty solid to me - blind to her own (and the Tower's) arrogance, Moiraine is about to walk into a trap. Irony. Juxtaposition. I love it.

Pardon me if I don't think this was intentional. 

 

The writers of this show should be laying flowers on Roland Barthes' grave. If not for him introducing the Death of the Author as a concept (authorial intent means less than audience experience), they'd ben in reeeeaaal trouble. 

[swollymammoth]

Pushing Rand to the side is a worse idea every episode. The climax of EotW landed so hard precisely because we'd just spent the whole book in Rand's head. We knew him. We had an intimate familiarity with his wants, his desire for a simple, humble life. That's the stuff that made us actually care when it turned out that he was the Dragon Reborn. 

 

A stranger getting hit by a car is sad. A friend? Now that's a tragedy. 

 

In centering EotW around the mystery of "who is the DR," Rafe has turned those final moments from, "Oh my gosh, it's Rand. Noooooo...." to "Oh, so it was the ginger all along." 

 

Such a cheap payoff. 

[swollymammoth]

14 hours ago, DojoToad said:

For all the Amazon adaptation haters out there, think of it this way. If too many fans are ripping this adaptation apart, we won't even get to season 3

Amazon literally does not care about the fans. It's nothing personal. It's just business. 

[Elder_Haman]

47 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Pardon me if I don't think this was intentional.

Of course you don’t. Because the only interpretation you’re open to is your own. 

 

44 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Pushing Rand to the side is a worse idea every episode.

Only he hasn’t been pushed to the side. He’s had as much dialogue and screen time as anyone. 

 

45 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Such a cheap payoff.

In your opinion. 

[WheelofJuke]

I've focused on so many negative things about this series (rightfully so), I'd like to focus on the things that continue to stick out as positives for me from the whole series.

 

1. The title sequence, with the thread of ages, being woven, and vibrantly coming to life before being extinguished for the Serpent, which spirals in on itself before resolving into two points of light in an infinity sign. Perfectly matched music (in turns ambient, martial, and mysterious) properly sets the tone. HOT.  I *still* get the shivers from watching the title sequence. It's the best part of the show for me.

2. Music is very good. I'm a huge music nerd, and so far, except for the excruciating song that served as Thom's introduction, I haven't noticed the music except as a proper emotional "booster." It's usually subtle enough to accentuate and not detract. 

3. The sets, while at times a little "lean," and a perhaps a little "clean," overall show enough quality and attention to detail to frame the action, and despite some poor lighting, properly conveys a good WoT vibe. 

4. Costumes, so far, are above average. At times a little larp-ish, but no real obvious complaints. I'm super excited to see some sequined/embroidered dresses, as RJ spent so much time detailing them. ?

5. Some really fine individual acting performances. It seems to me that the more of the ensemble is present in any given scene, the worse the dynamic between them. And often times this is where poor writing/dialogue is exposed; however, parts such as Moiraine, Lan, Steppin, Logain, and Mat are/were capably portrayed by the actresses/actors. 

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

2 hours ago, Sabio said:

As Rand argues with Moiraine, Perrin is more of the silently sit there waiting to find out what to do.

"A good habit for you to get into, a habit you should never have lost" - we could do with more of these Lan comments in the series.  Start of book 3 - he is also admonished by Min immediately before for "taking over where Rand left off" in standing up to Moiraine.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

19 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

2. Music is very good. I'm a huge music nerd, and so far, except for the excruciating song that served as Thom's introduction, I haven't noticed the music except as a proper emotional "booster." It's usually subtle enough to accentuate and not detract. 

Do you think that crowd wanted a love song or "mara and the three foolish kings"?  Thom was playing the most miserable song (with deliberate off key singing to make it more mournful) he knew as a counter irritant to make their own miseries appear less.  And it worked (in the sense of getting tips and making the crowd keep drinking which are the measures of success for a gleeman).