Comparing Wheel of Time to other fantasy adaptations

[AdamA]

2 minutes ago, danweasel said:

 

• Tarwin's Gap
• Falme
• Dumai's Wells

"Last minute charge when nearly all is lost" to me screams whatever the Emond's Field neighbor is called that shows up right when the trollocs are about to overwhelm them when Perrin and Faile go back to rescue their comrades that had been kidnapped by Whitecloaks after they got infiltrated by Padan Fain pretending to be Ordeith the Questioner.

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, AdamA said:

Best-ever book/film combo to me is 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Agreed. The wrinkle to this pair is that Clarke wrote "The Sentinel" in 1948 that was a precursor to both. As you said, the 1968 creations were contemporaneous so something different from an adaptation. Kubrick/Clarke were always unique in their work, so that makes sense. 

[Theseus78]

On 11/28/2021 at 1:06 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

I do love that readers seem to have forgotten that the WOT has the potential to include lots of gratuitous sex as well,
...

If any of the above is censored then I am sorry that will be far far worse, because it all plays an important part of the story that Robert Jordan told 

RJ always did the 'pan to the wall' when writing sex scenes.  I'm perfectly fine with this show setting up the sex, and not going down the soft-core porn route. 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, Theseus78 said:

RJ always did the 'pan to the wall' when writing sex scenes.  I'm perfectly fine with this show setting up the sex, and not going down the soft-core porn route. 

I mean more if they remove all aspects of it rather then go the GOT route.

[Kalessin]

18 hours ago, Tim said:

One series I would compare aspects of WOT to, and which I could imagine being a successful TV adaptation, is the Empire series by Janny Wurts and Raymond Feist - kind of an offshoot of his Riftwar novels but (I think) better written and more appropriate for adaptation. Basically if WOT was only the game of houses and with magic playing a much lesser role.

The Empire trilogy - Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire, Mistress of the Empire - would be much, much better than that cringeworthy book "The King's Buccaneers". I don't know how it got past the editor/s. Though Pug in the first trilogy was definitely a worthwhile character. I have conflicting views about his friend who wound up an elemental-in-"Elvish"-form.

[Gothic Flame]

7 hours ago, Kalessin said:

 I have conflicting views about his friend who wound up an elemental-in-"Elvish"-form.

"Tomas?"

I'd say he's closer to a demigod than an elemental. 

I would take Feist to task for confusing the overarching narrative later on.

[Harad the White]

On 11/29/2021 at 12:57 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

One series I have not seen mentioned is Carnival Row, no idea what the budget was for that but compare the direction, editing and VFX to WOT and it feels like Amazon have taken a step backwards 

Disagree. WoT is already far-better world-building, cinematography, and direction than Carnival Row, which I liked as a modest effort.

[Harad the White]

Just saw on TBS, Dame Helen Mirren hosts Harry Potter: Battle of the Houses. 20 years from now,  Zoë Robins hosts WoT: Battle of the Channelers.

 

Also considering the fascination with Bela or Bella here, horses have a big role in fantasy adapations. Shadowfax and Bill in LoTR. In Thomas Covenant spiritual horses are a major force for good.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Harad the White

[Daenelia]

I will leave you this, with regards to horses and fantasy novels:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/891586.The_Heavenly_Horse_from_the_Outermost_West

 

I have that book. I love that book. I wish there were more. Maybe I should write some fanfic based on it.

[Harad the White]

On 11/28/2021 at 11:30 AM, Guire said:

.  That's when I first watched The Outpost.

IMDB "surprisingly" suggested "The Outpost" recently so I started watching the first-episode origin story and the second episode. I had never seen these before. Two other things I noticed besides the common actor with WoT.

 

1. The medieval bar looks a lot like the bar in Hanging Aiel Town.

2. The heroine Talon uses the Lan Mandragoran "move" in the Last Battle to kill her first major villain.

 

[Harad the White]

The "Wizard of Oz" was a book first published in 1900. In 1939 they made a movie based on it called "Wizard of Oz." The movie took liberties including that it was a musical, there was no dream, no Professor Marvel, and no ruby slippers. Try to imagine, if there was an internet in 1939, the cries of anguish over the "gutting" of the plot and the characters. Of course now, the 1939 movie is considered a classic, and deviations from it were and will be loudly detested. Ofc, WoT is no WoO.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Harad the White

[ArrylT]

28 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

The "Wizard of Oz" was a book first published in 1900. In 1939 they made a movie based on it called "Wizard of Oz." The movie took liberties including that it was a musical, there was no dream, no Professor Marvel, and no ruby slippers. Try to imagine, if there was an internet in 1939, the cries of anguish over the "gutting" of the plot and the characters. Of course now, the 1939 movie is considered a classic, and deviations from it were and will be loudly detested. Ofc, WoT is no WoO.

 

Hmmm now I have to wonder if Dorothy was whisked away into a portal stone realm or a new turning of the wheel - ie the Land of Oz was in her future or an alternate earth - rather than the dream it is suggested to be.  

[AdamA]

Changing Dorothy's shoes from silver to ruby totally killed the bimetallism allegory that was the entire point of the story.  L. Frank Baum is rolling in his grave over that atrocity. It's not even recognizable as Wizard of Oz. So many small details pointlessly changed. Why was the Good Witch of the North Glinda instead of Locasta?! Glinda is supposed to be the Good Witch of the South. I can't believe how much Victor Fleming just crapped on a classic story he clearly hated.

[notpropaganda73]

On 11/30/2021 at 2:55 PM, Frenata said:

I think people overestimate how much an author would have demanded source-fidelity to the details of their work. Or hone in on weird details that "must be adapted" rather than the heart of the story. IMO "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is a useful counter-lesson since Adams was directly involved in many many adaptations of it in various mediums. Lots of details and events get re-ordered, and whole new elements get added or removed as appropriate for the particular medium. But through it all the heart of the story, of the accidental destruction of Earth and the crazy wanderings of Arthur Dent who tries to make sense of it, remain.

 

Another example of a story with seriously altered details/sequencing is "The Princess Bride", again with heavy authorial involvement. The point of the story doesn't change even if the path along the way does.

 

We can only imagine what Tolkien would have thought of Jackson's work, but I'm extremely skeptical he would have cared about some of the details altered along the way, even things precious to fans: the barrowwights, who rescues Frodo at the ford, Faramir's story. Where I personally part ways with Jackson was the removal of the scouring of the shire: because the story is primarily about the hobbits, removing the point of the story where they show how much they've changed cuts at the heart of the story. But this gets at disagreements about what the true core of the LOTR even *is*.

 

Yet another example in SF: "Ender's Game". The film adaptation focuses on Ender's tactical brilliance and the "trick" of it all, but misses entirely on the biggest takeaway of the novel to me: Ender's internal conflict between his sensitivity and his violence, as illustrated in the books via the computer simulation and in the Peter/Valentine story.

 

While I might get annoyed along the way (as I was with the removal of Tom Bombadil), alterations of details from the books (such as the removal of Caemlyn from S1 or tinkering with the details of the OP) won't shift my fundamental understanding of WoTPrime so long as the heart of the story (as I understand it!) continues.

 

 

 

This is such an insightful and brilliant post. Bravo. 

 

 

[Sabio]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:16 PM, ArrylT said:

Excluding superhero & low/urban fantasy I think the only high/epic fantasy shows I've seen are

 

Game of Thrones

Earthsea

Discworld

 

But I may edit this when I think of others

 

And well WOT beats all of them when comparing Year 1 to their Year 1.   As a whole GOT show beats WOT show - but not Year 1 to Year 1.

 

The interesting thing for me is that I think a lot of earlier high / epic fantasy might now fall under the YA umbrella, if it had started recently, for example

 

Xanth

Belgariad / Mallorean / Elenium / Tamuli

Riftwar

Dragonlance

 

At my local library Hobbit & LOTR is not filed under Adult but either Teen / Juvenile

 

So basically staying true to the books may no matter what give off that YA vibe.

 

It all depends on the period on which the books / show comes out.   I wouldnt be surprised if books that come out now could be perceived to be for a completely different audience 30-40 years from now.

 

At some point I may give Witcher, Seekers and/or Shannara shows a try.  I'm fine with guilty pleasures.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

By Grapthar's hammer, you shall be avenged!

 

Ahh the original dragonlance books would be amazing to see as a series.  They made a bad cartoon of Dragonlance once.

[notpropaganda73]

Has anyone been watching the His Dark Materials series on BBC? I adore the books and hated the Daniel Craig-led movie, but the BBC's effort feels much more true to the books. Even though it's not perfect and lots of things were cut, the overall thrust feels really good and the casting of Mrs Coulter in particular has been outstanding. Really solid in my opinion and looking forward to season 3 to finish it off. 

 

I enjoyed Shadow & Bone as someone who has never read the books there, although I felt it tailed off a little towards the end of the series. The worldbuilding was interesting and I thought there was a lot of cool dynamics at play, but the big reveal of The Darkling felt very "meh" to me in the show, I'm not sure why. 

 

On a personal level I'd love to see Malazan some day, but truly I think that could only really be done justice as a long running animated series. Trying to make it live-action... it would need a ridiculous budget. 

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, notpropaganda73 said:

Has anyone been watching the His Dark Materials series on BBC?

I tried a couple of times, but it just didn't hold my attention. Even my kids were out after a couple of episodes.

[ArrylT]

4 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Ahh the original dragonlance books would be amazing to see as a series.  They made a bad cartoon of Dragonlance once.

 

They did?!? ?

[notpropaganda73]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

I tried a couple of times, but it just didn't hold my attention. Even my kids were out after a couple of episodes.

That's a pity, my friend who also loved the books isn't a fan either unfortunately. I felt they did a poor job at times in S1 of really showing the daemons and how important they were, which I put down to budgetary constraints. But it was the driving force of the whole season so it was frustrating - but the S1 finale and then S2 I felt was definitely better. 

[Sabio]

2 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

 

They did?!? ?

Sadly they did.  

 

Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight

This is the animated feature film version of the first book in the Chronicles series. Starring Kiefer Sutherland, Lucy Lawless, and Michael Rosenbaum.

[ArrylT]

18 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

That's a pity, my friend who also loved the books isn't a fan either unfortunately. I felt they did a poor job at times in S1 of really showing the daemons and how important they were, which I put down to budgetary constraints. But it was the driving force of the whole season so it was frustrating - but the S1 finale and then S2 I felt was definitely better. 

 

It is on my "to watch" list at some point, but probably only in the top 20.  ?

[Pandemonium]

speaking of horses, what is that fantasy book where the hero has to mate with a changeling horse?  I read that book years ago and that scene is still unfortunately etched in my head.  

Edited December 9, 2021 by Pandemonium

[Harad the White]

58 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

Has anyone been watching the His Dark Materials series on BBC? I adore the books and hated the Daniel Craig-led movie

Like the series (on HBO), liked the movie. The casts are different, but equally fine imho. Ian McKellen as Iorek Byrnison is worth the price of admission. No doubt that the series is more faithful to an important theme: namely the identification of the Magisterium with the Church. Nevertheless, the movie was fine filmmaking, just for whatever reason, did not catch on with the public. Fantasy overload by then?  

Edited December 9, 2021 by Harad the White

[Harad the White]

Other SF that might be great in film is the Doc E.E. Smith "Lensman" and "Skylark" series. They are both pulp fiction, but with quite interesting ideas, especially the Lensman's run through Earth history. I may be hallucinating by I thought I watched a Japanese Anime version of one Lensman story on laserdisk (!) with "Kimball Kinnison," but I have not been able to find any trace of it on the interwebs.

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Sadly they did.  

 

Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight

This is the animated feature film version of the first book in the Chronicles series. Starring Kiefer Sutherland, Lucy Lawless, and Michael Rosenbaum.

I was told Keifer was spot on as Raistlin.