How did the show hold up for non-fans watching with you?

[Skipp]

25 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Netflix has the added factor of how many shows they'll killed off quickly though.  It can be hard to become too attached to a netflix show at this point if you know that they'll likely to kill it off after the slightest stumble.

 

 

Isn't this the truth.  I am a big fan of the original Cowboy Bebop and I was mildly interesting in watching the live action series.  But it came out at a bad time for me the Christmas season, Just purchased a condo and moving into it, lots of good shows all dropping at once.  But now that I am able to catch up on some shows I find it has already been canceled which certainly dampers my enthusiasm to watch it.  Same thing happened with Jupiters Legacy.

[Gypsum]

Non-book reading OH was baffled by the opening scene with Lews Therin and even more baffled by Ishamael. "Is he the Dark One? What?? Really??" Expecting the Dark One to be a little scarier than a dude with a beard, vaguely dressed like a rabbi.

 

I gave him the short-and-sweet cliffnotes on the War of Power, Lews Therin, and the Forsaken, adding, "So he's not the Dark One. He's just a guy. One of the most powerful channelers ever, who's over 3000 years old and causes a lot of hassle, but still, just a guy."

 

The impression I get from OH is that if you didn't know what was going on, you wouldn't know what was going on, and the show isn't properly investing viewers in the stakes or the characters, or explaining clearly why various aspects of their world -- i.e. the bifurcation of the One Power, Lews Therin himself, the seals, a bunch of other stuff -- really matter.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Gypsum

[notpropaganda73]

My partner has been on board and enjoying the series, invested in a way I didn’t expect, enjoying aspects of the show I didn’t etc… the show completely lost her in eps 7 & 8. It started with the Blood Snow, on to the reveal of Rand and then pretty much the entirety of episode 8. 
 

she’s gone from really loving the show to complete indifference, sadly, 

[Guest Cranglevoid]

I only have a couple of friends watching, but both feel the show is pretty "meh" and have commented on the obsession with having female characters upstage male characters.

 

They are also very lost regarding how the magic is supposed to work. "So they just gather energy and then it does whatever they want to?"

[Skipp]

So far all of my friends and their spouses have enjoyed the show.  One of them thought episode 8 was the best of the bunch but by his own word he is basing that solely on the performance of Fares Fares.

[DaddyFinn]

One got mad at the ending cliffhanger because she has to wait for a year or so to see what happens ?

[Scarloc99]

My wife loves it, she has picked up on all the main themes that have been presented so far, told me not to spoil a single thing about it, worked out rand was the dragon early on but loved the reveal. 
 

The only thing that threw her was Matt not going into the ways but understood and was forgiving of that once I explained. She got proper invested in the last episode telling Rand he better not dare stay in the new reality, getting angry at the overpulling of the source and really worried about Nyn. 
 

My step son and daughter in law also love it, she loves fantasy but refuses to read the book while the tv show is in because as she states, the books are always different and I don’t want to find myself judging one off the other. So she will wait until season 8 is complete and then said she will borrow

my books to read. 
 

Other friends who have never read the book run from its a fun light fantasy view, to really loved it. None of them hate it, all of them want season 2. 
 

That to me suggests Rafe has at least done what he was hired to do.

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

One got mad at the ending cliffhanger because she has to wait for a year or so to see what happens ?

The one of my best friends who has never read the books feels the same way.  She has a very inquisitive mind and she has already started to theory craft the DO's general structure.  She has yet to pick up that the MAN isn't the DO yet but she'll get to it before to long.

 

She is also thinking of picking up the audio books so that is very exciting for me.

[ArrylT]

On 12/26/2021 at 1:36 PM, Skipp said:

 

Isn't this the truth.  I am a big fan of the original Cowboy Bebop and I was mildly interesting in watching the live action series.  But it came out at a bad time for me the Christmas season, Just purchased a condo and moving into it, lots of good shows all dropping at once.  But now that I am able to catch up on some shows I find it has already been canceled which certainly dampers my enthusiasm to watch it.  Same thing happened with Jupiters Legacy.

 

Yeah I know the feeling.   I have a tendency to wait until a show, that I am likely to be strongly invested in, is a couple of seasons old, or has already completed, before I watch it.    It felt like any time a show I was interested in from the get-go ended up like Cowboy Bebop (which I doubt I will watch now that it is only 1 S long).  

 

Wheel of Time is the first show in years I have watched from the start.  And probably the one I am least concerned with it getting axed on short notice - since it seems quite likely that we'll be getting a min of 3-4, if not the intended 8 seasons, baring unforeseen & unpredictable events (like say a new pandemic that is even more deadly).   

 

I wonder if some of the Netflix decisions has to do with conceding some of the fantasy market to Amazon, since the WoT success, and countdown to LOTR, is giving them a strong in.  Obviously they'll still have shows like Stranger Things and The Witcher - just that maybe instead of using those shows to build a large ensemble of fantasy shows to showcase, they'll simply continue to release one here & there while allowing Amazon (and Disney with MCU) to become to go-to place(s) for Fantasy.    

Edited December 28, 2021 by ArrylT

[ArrylT]

So far every non-book reader, that I know, that has watched the show enjoys it, and has planned to keep watching it.  I have not had a chance to talk to many about the season finale yet - but it was after the finale that my SO said she wanted to read the EOTW.  

 

One thing that needs to be remembered is that a lot of people simply want to enjoy entertainment,   They simply want to "turn off their brains" and enjoy the show.   They do not need to poke at any potential loose knots or wonder what the long term implications of this choice will be.  As long as the story makes sense and the show entertains, that is what counts.

 

Basically, as we should already know, they wont be too bothered if the show isnt perfectly faithful to the lore & magic rules, more that what they are seeing on the screen makes coherent sense at the time.

 

Ex:  Since they saw Nynaeve heal Lan with a neck wound that was about to kill him, most of those types of fans will have little issue with Egwene healing Nynaeve  - because the show has already shown this kind of healing is possible.

 

So the simplification of some of the lore & rules only makes it more beneficial for that portion of people - much like it did with GOT, LOTR and so forth.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by ArrylT

[Skipp]

31 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

So far every non-book reader, that I know, that has watched the show enjoys it, and has planned to keep watching it.  I have not had a chance to talk to many about the season finale yet - but it was after the finale that my SO said she wanted to read the EOTW.  

 

One thing that needs to be remembered is that a lot of people simply want to enjoy entertainment,   They simply want to "turn off their brains" and enjoy the show.   They do not need to poke at any potential loose knots or wonder what the long term implications of this choice will be.  As long as the story makes sense and the show entertains, that is what counts.

 

Basically, as we should already know, they wont be too bothered if the show isnt perfectly faithful to the lore & magic rules, more that what they are seeing on the screen makes coherent sense at the time.

 

Ex:  Since they saw Nynaeve heal Lan with a neck wound that was about to kill him, most of those types of fans will have little issue with Egwene healing Nynaeve  - because the show has already shown this kind of healing is possible.

 

So the simplification of some of the lore & rules only makes it more beneficial for that portion of people - much like it did with GOT, LOTR and so forth.  

Ain't this the truth.  We are on these forums bickering back and forth about nitpicks when ultimately the general audience just does not care.

[Sabio]

After the last Episode my wife (has never read the books) gave the series a 6, I have read the book and lean towards it being a 5 at the most.  Her big issues were many of the details left her sort of confused (alot from episode 8).  like Perin's eyes then never a mention of it again until Min viewing.  Seemed tossed in then ignored.  With episode 8 many of our thoughts were pretty similar.  She didn't understand why LTT was doing his plan since there seemed to be no urgency.  It seemed too much of a casual conversation (so I had to explain why he was doing his plan).  The Nyn/Egwene linking scene at the end left her confused and shaking her head, and she wonders why Perin is even in the show.  She has enjoyed it more than I have, but surprisingly we agree on many issues such as too little time on the main characters.  I guess since she hasn't read the book, many of the issues we agree on simply don't bother her as much and it's easier for her to get past them.

 

One area I liked that she didn't get was the Rand/DO fight.  She didn't understand why Rand was just kneeling there, how the DO was having a conversation with Rand and Moiraine at the same time, and how was Moiraine suppose to know what the **** was going on to know if Rand was going good or bad.  Was she just going to take the DO's word for it?  The scene wasn't perfect like it never seemed to occur to Moiraine that the DO could simply wrap her in air to stop her from killing Rand.  I enjoyed the mental fight where my wife didn't fully understand what was going on.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sabio

[Tamal]

My girlfriend has not read the books. She loved Game of Thrones, and thinks the Witcher is okay. She thinks this show is childish, boring and looks (and sounds) like a show made only for teenagers. She loved the scene with Rand's mom being a badass (as did I). After the scene we both got our hopes up again. 

Well.

I actually at times felt embarassed watching the show after hyping it up for her ("on your knees", the whole "Stepin" detour).  I looked forward to watching this with her, but this show's structure is just so unconvincing that I can't even compare it favourably to the most ridiculous of book adaptions on screen. 

[KingCheops]

My wife enjoyed the show to the point where she's debating reading the books.  She did feel that having me there to explain stuff helped (although honestly X-Ray would have probably been enough).

[Wassup]

My wife (hasn’t read the books) watched the first episode. She did not like the gory parts. However, she said she would like to see the next episode because she wants to know where the kids go. 
 

my teen daughter (hasn’t read the books) watched the first three episodes. She said Rand is the DR since episode 1. She has been calling him Rudolph because of the holidays.
She hates Eg, whom she calls eggnog. She does not like how she behaves and the way she treats Rand. 

The only thing she thinks of when she sees Perrin is that he killed his wife. 

[EmreY]

My mother, with whom I've fought a low-intensity war over the past fifty years regarding the worthiness of fantasy and science fiction, didn't have much to say that was positive.  (Admittedly, her view changed a bit after actually reading some stuff.  Not the WoT; my mother, had she attempted the books, would have read the first three and last chapters.)

 

However, she did say that if all the fuss about the Dragon Reborn was justified, she was glad that he was obviously better brought up than most other people on the show, even if he was a bit of an ass sometimes.

Edited December 30, 2021 by EmreY

[Scarloc99]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:01 PM, Tamal said:

My girlfriend has not read the books. She loved Game of Thrones, and thinks the Witcher is okay. She thinks this show is childish, boring and looks (and sounds) like a show made only for teenagers. She loved the scene with Rand's mom being a badass (as did I). After the scene we both got our hopes up again. 

Well.

I actually at times felt embarassed watching the show after hyping it up for her ("on your knees", the whole "Stepin" detour).  I looked forward to watching this with her, but this show's structure is just so unconvincing that I can't even compare it favourably to the most ridiculous of book adaptions on screen. 

See my wife loved the Stepin story and really got the bond and what it had done to him afterwards. She also loved the interaction between Moraine and Siuan, in fact as soon as they where together in the hall she told me, those 2 are in a relationship. The on your knees lines she loved. 

[Siraci]

On 12/24/2021 at 7:18 PM, Siraci said:

Long time WoT fan. 

My friends and I have been reading it since we were kids. 

 

And personally if there was a petition to cancel the show I'd pay to be on it. 

 

They've messed with way too much of the little important lore things and big time storyline concepts for me to sign off on this. There's been a few cool scenes but I just think it's a butchery of the story with none of the class or poetic/metephorical nature of Jordan. 

Just too many broken concepts that are big plot line pieces later. 

People catching on fire burning out?.. Sounds like they just read the term and added that in. 

Not to mention now 2 Main characters are burnt out first season and that healing isn't discovered till like book 11

Being forced to swear other things on the oath rod... Again.. 11th ish book and also illegal. 

 

All the extra channelling... Ways used by power

 

Tom and camlyn just poofed into smoke. 

 

I'm with all the people that say they should follow the book.  That's what people have been waiting for....the rest are just settling on a moneygrab. 

 

There are neither beginnings or endings

But this should end. 

Personally i wish everyone would sign this :

https://chng.it/95X54w5PxN

 

They've ruined too many plot points the only way to save the show is to backtrack and fix everything. 

 

Just my opinion but I see it's half the people think they've done major damage to the plotline.  Would have been so easy to copy and paste the script and plotlines in my opinion. 

[bombadillio]

Everyone I know who did not read the books would watch again. 

 

All had the same complaints:

1. Why such shoddy CGI 

2. Why so short

3. Is a survivor contestant with no clear track record the right man for the job? Why didn't they choose someone with experience like a Peter Jackson or Favreau?

[bryce0110]

8 hours ago, Siraci said:

Personally i wish everyone would sign this :

https://chng.it/95X54w5PxN

 

They've ruined too many plot points the only way to save the show is to backtrack and fix everything. 

 

Just my opinion but I see it's half the people think they've done major damage to the plotline.  Would have been so easy to copy and paste the script and plotlines in my opinion. 

I don't think this petition will go anywhere. Change petitions never really do anything, it's just an easy way to get people riled up.

[Jaysen Gore]

48 minutes ago, bombadillio said:

Everyone I know who did not read the books would watch again. 

 

All had the same complaints:

1. Why such shoddy CGI 

2. Why so short

3. Is a survivor contestant with no clear track record the right man for the job? Why didn't they choose someone with experience like a Peter Jackson or Favreau?

1 - lack of budget, lack of time, lack of in room reviews and editing due to Covid. D; all of the above

2 - Amazon wanted 8 episodes. Rafe wanted 10. So your answer is money.

3 -Peter Jackson would probably cost more than their entire per episode budget, and Favreau might be close to that. $10 million is nothing in Hollywood terms. Be thankful we got someone who has actually been a showrunner (AoS) before.

[notpropaganda73]

I know I gave some episode-by-episode thoughts from my partner, so now that the whole season has dropped I guess it's fair to summarise. I think I posted some initial thoughts in the ep8 thread, maybe, I can't remember! 

 

But essentially, the last two episodes really lost her. I think a lot of the complaints I had in terms of set up/pay off or just dropping things in that book readers will know without enough in-show exploration/explanation, really effected her. It started with the Blood Snow scene, she thought it was a cool scene and made her curious as to who the woman was, and specifically how she was so good at fighting, but she didn't understand any of the importance or what we were seeing other than "cool fight scene". I think this sort of scene would have worked a lot better if the audience understood that the Dragon was born on Dragonmount. As it was, we had no context for the scene in the show other than "cool". 

 

This continued in The Ways. Visually she found them interesting but she didn't understand why they were the way they were. She thought it was strange that they were a "day away from their Waygate" (per Moiraine) and then when the Black Wind comes after the channeling, they can run to the nearest Waygate much sooner. I think this is where the show suffers from small missteps and mistakes, because the overall product isn't good enough that people forget to notice those small things. It's the sort of thing that if the overall feeling of The Ways was good enough, if they had been set up and explained properly, I don't think little throwaway lines like that wouldn't register. But because there is some confusion going on, every line is listened to intently to try and see if that'll solve the confusion (if that makes sense!). 

 

She really liked Min as an introduction and she thought the reveal of Rand was well done but not earned. I think this was discussed in the ep7 thread at the time but she was annoyed because she hadn't been given all the clues to fully guess it might have been Rand. If the show doesn't give us all the hints that the character then puts together, it's cheating. She also was confused initially because she thought he only knew he was the Dragon because Machin Shin said so "and why would you believe an evil wind?"

 

Episode 8 is where she was really lost though. She didn't understand anything about the Eye or the Dark One, she liked the "potential future with Egwene" as a temptation but not much else. She was confused by the ending and why Rand just walked off, and why Moiraine allowed him to. Everything in Fal Dara itself she thought was terrible and she was so so confused by Padan Fain's appearance. 

 

Although unlike nearly all book readers, while she thought the battle itself was shoddy, she loved the display of One Power from the 5 women. She thought it was a cool visual and that it showed a danger of channeling for women that she had thought up to that point was only really dangerous for men (via the madness). It raised the stakes in watching women channeling for her. 

 

Overall she really loved the first 6 episodes, more than me to be honest, but the show went downhill for her fast in the final two. She's still interested in S2 but a lot less than she was before those two episodes. 

[flinn]

 The last two non book reader friends (married couple) finished the series. Liked it overall but they said they would most likely forget about it before season 2 came out. They would watch season 2, but they arent anticipating it or excited about it. All my other non book reader friends gave up on it at different points in season 1.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:16 AM, TheDreadReader said:

You can segment existing fans into two buckets.  The ones who will be reasonably getable and the ones who are not. 

Don't forget the third bucket: Fans who literally just do not care and would watch a flaming dumpster if it was branded as WoT. 

 

Rafe knew he had those in the bag (a not insignificant number, as things turned out), so he did the bare minimum to pick up some of the reasonably gentle people and threw everyone else to the curb in an attempt to draw in casual watchers. 

[ArrylT]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:19 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

1 - lack of budget, lack of time, lack of in room reviews and editing due to Covid. D; all of the above

2 - Amazon wanted 8 episodes. Rafe wanted 10. So your answer is money.

3 -Peter Jackson would probably cost more than their entire per episode budget, and Favreau might be close to that. $10 million is nothing in Hollywood terms. Be thankful we got someone who has actually been a showrunner (AoS) before.

 

Movies Peter Jackson directed before LOTR

 

Heavenly Creatures

Forgotten Silver

The Frighteners

 

I do not think we need to rehash the fact that a lot of LOTR fans were upset with the changes to the films other to say that the parallels are pretty similar

 

Person with some experience in the industry & a fan of the material that a fair minority of fans disagree with their adaptation.

 

Speaking of Favreau - his last movie The Lion King was somewhat critically panned and disliked by many (Elton John for example disowns it) while still being a financial success.  Oh and a lot of people like to "hate" on the Shannara Chronicles - which coincidentally enough Favreau was involved with. He also did Cowboys & Aliens.

 

Favreau however as a writer would have been pretty interesting - since I think that is his biggest strength - but like Jaysen Gore mentioned - likely out of the price range.