How did the show hold up for non-fans watching with you?

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Do they? Yeah they watched season 1 but how many are going to drop before season 2? Season 1 ended with an absolute clunker and the audience scores don't scream absolutely amazing either.

Amazon seems happy and it has sat pretty consistently in top 4 week to week during the release run and who knows how many have come to it since it was released. 

You think season 1 ended with a clunker, the 20-30 people I know loved it, I as a book lover enjoyed it and understood the changes, the only thing at the end that didn't sit well with me was Egwene healing Nyn but, I can live with that and see where the show takes it. 

 

At the end of the last episode Morraine understands she actually knows nothing about the prophesy, the person she had convinced herself was the dragon wasn't, the last battle wasn't the last battle, and she has no idea what has been done to her. Yes this is a difference to Morraine in the books, but it is a change I like. Everything else that was different I get and I liked. Rand at the end of season 1 is not in the same place he is in the books, season 2 will be him building his powers and then unleashing them fully, him not doing that in this episode doesn't break that arc. 

[Deviations]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Erasing the existence of the Mayor and the Village Council doesn't.

I couldn't disagree more.  Jordan constantly set up the ying and yang with men and women.  What happens when they work in isolation, what happens when they work together.  Village council vs women's circle.  

[Cauthonfan4]

13 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Amazon actually has fewer Prime members that watch TV then you realise, that is one of the reason they are pushing original series to try and get more people watching the TV side of Prime. 

But the point is you get more for yout money with a prime membership than you do with other services.

14 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

In terms of Changes that are required for TV, the only one that confuses me is the change to Mats Dad, taking the list above

Really? So you're gonna tell me that every single other change that occurred was absolutely necessary in order to convert from book to TV series? It was necessary to have stepins arc as an example?

 

17 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Adding them adds nothing either, and just because they are not on screen doesn't mean they don't exist

By rhat logic why did we need to add the women's council or the initiation?

18 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I liked this, it was something new from the books and, for Non book readers it defines that she has come of age, it presents the idea that she was really excited about this event and that then feeds into later in her story arc

Funny how we get that for her but we get nothing for the guys. But no surprise, the guys spent season 1 just getting shafted anyway.

18 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Book readers are not, and should not be the target audience here. There are not enough in the world to warrant making a TV show with this budget.

Yeah just alienate the crowd that spread the word about the show. Makes total sense. Game of thrones kept the book fans included and that ended with a 9.2 even factoring in how awful later seasons are.

21 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Amazon also wants to draw in people who never usually watch fantasy TV shows. That feeds very much into the tone of the show as well and many of the creative decisions of what to cut and keep

Yeah because Sci fi and fantasy is so much a pariah in today's society.

We dont have stuff like star wars, got, or marvel putting fantasy in the mainstream. 

 

[Cauthonfan4]

22 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Amazon seems happy and it has sat pretty consistently in top 4 week to week during the release run and who knows how many have come to it since it was released.

For season 1 maybe. How many are going to walk away after the awful end of season 1? How many are going ro be pushed away because book fans are out there saying how bad it is compared to the source?

22 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Yes this is a difference to Morraine in the books, but it is a change I like

That doesn't surprise me. You seem to like almost everything. This series doesn't even understand the source material and based on what you say I don't think you do either. Balance doesnt matter in the show. Which is a shame because that's the entire message of the source material. You don't care about the lack of the men's council/mayor, despite that reducing balance. But what a surprise you defend that.

 

Or better yet. The show should be renamed. It doesn't care about the source material at all.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Love of the books? Why? Clearly rhe showrunner has no love of the books so why should my love of the books behold me to watch this show?

I said many, not all.  You could end up in the hate-watch category but I don't know your habits.

 

2 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Book readers are not, and should not be the target audience here. There are not enough in the world to warrant making a TV show with this budget. The target audience has to be people who have never read the books, and, Amazon also wants to draw in people who never usually watch fantasy TV shows. That feeds very much into the tone of the show as well and many of the creative decisions of what to cut and keep. 

Agreed, I was just responding CauthonFan4.  I was just referring to group of watchers who had previously read the books and how they respond to season 2 coming out.

[Cauthonfan4]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

Agreed, I was just responding CauthonFan4

Yes alienating thr group who is going to spread the word of yout show the most is a capital idea. Look at how much it worked out for Shannara. Meanwhile game of thrones kept them in the happy category and you have one or the most talked about shows in history... based on yhe current ratings I doubt wot will make it to conclusion. And they better not blame book fans fof it when it does fail.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Yes alienating thr group who is going to spread the word of yout show the most is a capital idea. Look at how much it worked out for Shannara. Meanwhile game of thrones kept them in the happy category and you have one or the most talked about shows in history...

This board represents a minority of the WoT fandom.  There are plently of WoT book loving Content creators that also enjoyed the show.  They are still spreading the word while hoping aspects of the show will improve.

 

And don't act like there aren't GoT purists who dislike the show.

[Cauthonfan4]

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

This board represents a minority of the WoT fandom.  There are plently of WoT book loving Content creators that also enjoyed the show

There are also plenty who find it mediocre of worse.

3 minutes ago, Skipp said:

They are still spreading the word while hoping aspects of the show will improve

And how many are out there outright dropping it or laughing at how bad it is because of all the changes they made. Even most the ones who say they enjoy it put qualifiers on it that they have to view it as another timeline entirely. 

 

4 minutes ago, Skipp said:

And don't act like there aren't GoT purists who dislike the show

There are. But the mass majority have shown they like it. Also got has a 9.2 on imdb. WoT has a 7.2.

 

Wheel of time SUFFERED because of the changes they made, alienating large portions of potential audiences. And yet every time this has happened in yhe past, the portion that was specifically alienated on purpose is the part that gets blamed.

[Skipp]

12 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

There are also plenty who find it mediocre of worse.

 

Your point being?  In my wildest dreams I would never have expected everyone to love this show.  Hell from the moment the cast was announced I knew that there would be a subset of people would hate the show no matter how the season played out.

 

13 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

And how many are out there outright dropping it or laughing at how bad it is because of all the changes they made. Even most the ones who say they enjoy it put qualifiers on it that they have to view it as another timeline entirely.

I don't know,  all I can say is that the WoT content creators I have been watching for the past 2 years all enjoyed the show to varying degrees.  All of them make mention that there are parts that didn't work for them personally.  All of them have mentioned that I hope the show will improve as season 2 moves along.  While who I watch only represents me so maybe I have been fortunate.  The WoT content creators I watch the most are Daniel Greene, Lezbi Nerdy, Nae'blis and WoTup.

 

And deciding to view the show as a different turning of the wheel is neither a good nor a bad thing.  It is the simple fact that adaptations will be different when changing mediums.  There is nothing wrong with you not enjoying the show.  But the other side of the coin is that there is nothing wrong with enjoying the show.  And neither position makes one more or less of a fan, or that they "understand" the source material better or worse.

 

20 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

There are. But the mass majority have shown they like it. Also got has a 9.2 on imdb. WoT has a 7.2.

 

Wheel of time SUFFERED because of the changes they made, alienating large portions of potential audiences. And yet every time this has happened in yhe past, the portion that was specifically alienated on purpose is the part that gets blamed.

 

Ratings for WoT were actually quite good at around episode 6 but really took a dive after episode 7 and 8.  We know that covid hit the production extremely hard along with losing a primary cast member.  I am personally willing to give them a little leeway for the mess that was episode 8.  And while i believe episode 8 was the weakest episode of the season it still had one of my favourite plots of the of the season.  Everything with Rand/Moraine/Ishamael was fantastic in my opinion.

 

But ultimately if you aren't enjoying the show I feel for you.  I have seen media that did nothing for me(looking at you The Last Airbender.)  And it sucks that you can't enjoy the show or hope that it improves to a point that you would be happy with.

[Cauthonfan4]

25 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Your point being?  In my wildest dreams I would never have expected everyone to love this show

Meanwhile game of thrones.

You know. What wheel of time was billed as?

25 minutes ago, Skipp said:

It is the simple fact that adaptations will be different when changing mediums

There is different and there is UNNECESSARILY DIFFERENT. many changes fit the latter.

 

25 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Ratings for WoT were actually quite good at around episode 6 but really took a dive after episode 7 and 8.

Patently false. Metacritic has even episodes 5 and 6 sub 5.0 score, dropping 1.5 points to 4.6 for episode 5 (and reaching 2.0 for thr last episode). 

26 minutes ago, Skipp said:

And it sucks that you can't enjoy the show or hope that it improves to a point that you would be happy with.

Yeah well you can blame rafe and company for putting out mediocre (at best) content. Personally I won't be back. 

[Skipp]

25 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Patently false. Metacritic has even episodes 5 and 6 sub 5.0 score, dropping 1.5 points to 4.6 for episode 5 (and reaching 2.0 for thr last episode).

I specifically said around the time those episodes were out.  The Show was sitting around 8.5 in imdb at that time.  Here on dragonmount we had a group of people saying Amazon had bots boosting the show around late November/early December.  I recall that the imdb ratings started to drop heavily after episode 8.  Now whether that was due to the quality of episode 8 or people waiting until the show was finished before watching/rating or some other reason, I just don't know.

 

But feel free to keep screaming into the void if that helps you through the day.  We'll have to agree to disagree about the show.  I am anxiously awaiting season two and hope the show improves on what it did in season 1.  So far they haven't had a covid shutdown so I am hopeful.

[Scarloc99]

7 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

For season 1 maybe. How many are going to walk away after the awful end of season 1? How many are going ro be pushed away because book fans are out there saying how bad it is compared to the source?

That doesn't surprise me. You seem to like almost everything. This series doesn't even understand the source material and based on what you say I don't think you do either. Balance doesnt matter in the show. Which is a shame because that's the entire message of the source material. You don't care about the lack of the men's council/mayor, despite that reducing balance. But what a surprise you defend that.

 

Or better yet. The show should be renamed. It doesn't care about the source material at all.

Not that it should matter, read the first 6 books just after it was released in the UK since then have re read the series every year that a new book got released. 

 

I don’t mind changes I didn’t want a word for word copy, that is boring and dull seeing as I know it all. As for this argument “it doesn’t care for the source material” the beating heart of the story is still there for many of us. A minority are being vocally negative, but that is the way of the bottom half of the internet. I am enjoying it and am interested in where it is going because of the changes. As for the steppin storyline, I and everyone I know loved it, because it let us get a peek at something the books he never shown us, while playing a big role in explaining something that is key. Rands bonding is one of the most important actions in the books because it leads to a moment where he can potentially destroy the wheel. That should not be explained in a throw away line, or exposition, it should not be left until similar events that take place towards the end. It was right to pull it out in the first season. 

[Cauthonfan4]

14 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

It was right to pull it out in the first season

At the expense of character development of our core cast? No thanks.

 

The show suffered because of such decisions.

[king of nowhere]

7 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

For season 1 maybe. How many are going to walk away after the awful end of season 1? How many are going ro be pushed away because book fans are out there saying how bad it is compared to the source?

 

on the other hand, there's a few reviews of people who preferred the show to the books. people who couldn't get into the books, but liked the show. I recall a few "my wife didn't like the books, but she liked the show" in this very thread.

and frankly, there's plenty of flaws in the books that people can dislike. I don't think a closer adaptation would have been better received

"this looks like a lotr ripoff"

"everyone is behaving like a caricature when it comes to opposite gender"

"the romances are not believable"

"mat does nothing"

"the main characters take too many dumb decisions for me to care about them"

 

the show does fix a lot of those problems, while introducing other problems of its own. The overall effect on non-book-fans? I wouldn't be too certain about it.

[Andra]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Amazon actually has fewer Prime members that watch TV then you realise, that is one of the reason they are pushing original series to try and get more people watching the TV side of Prime. 

Everyone with an Amazon Prime membership automatically has a subscription to Prime Video.

The comparison you're responding to wasn't about "all TV watchers," it was specifically about Amazon Prime Video vs. Disney +.  And Amazon wins that battle by about 2:1.  If an Amazon property (which existing members don't have to pay anything extra to watch) is getting fewer streaming minutes than a Disney + property (for which "paying extra" was the point of what you replied to), then Amazon is losing big.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

In terms of Changes that are required for TV, the only one that confuses me is the change to Mats Dad, taking the list above. 

The changes to Mat and his parents don't. - I like the change to Matt but not to his mum and dad. 

I don't like either of them, and I don't remotely find that it makes better TV than the alternative.  Also, the change to Mat was directly the result of the changes made to his parents.  You can't have one without the other.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Changing the location of their village doesn't. - Location isn't changed, yes they refer to the 2 rivers rather than Emonds Field but that doesn't mean the villiage itself has changed. 

The location is absolutely changed.

In the books, Emond's Field is surrounded by rolling farmland, with the Westwood AND the foothills between it and the mountains.  Mountains no one goes into, because there is a superstition that they are "haunted."  In the show, "this town" is up in the mountains proper.  It is not the same location by any stretch of the imagination.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Erasing the existence of the Mayor and the Village Council doesn't. - Adding them adds nothing either, and just because they are not on screen doesn't mean they don't exist. Spending time introducing characters who then play no part in the main narrative for many seasons wastes screen time, but also requires the Actors to agree to return in several years time when no one knows what they might be doing. The fewer "Emonds Field" Cast that are defined, the easier it is to ensure they don't have schedule clashes when they are required again. 

Then why include even more Women's Circle members than ever existed in the books?  Why "waste screen time" on them?  Why introduce numerous characters that won't be seen again for three more seasons?

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Making Bel Tine happen when the weather's already warm doesn't. This I imagine is a budget and location issue, filming on location was largely done in Croatia, relocating the whole cast and set to a wintery country at the time of filming just to show that time of year was probably not feasable. Sometimes you have to deal with what the location gives you in terms of weather. Additionally, filming in a location with bad weather causes it's own filming issues as you contend with rain and poor light cancelling filiming days.

You don't have to experience winter weather to make it look like there's still patches of snow, like the book says.  No one has ever said that relocating the entire film sets would have been necessary to agree with the books.  I don't have any idea why you would think they might.  Especially since we already know they moved the set into the mountains unnecessarily.

The book says winter was strangely late leaving.  The show never mentions the late winter, and makes it look like it's already summer.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Inventing Egwene's "initiation" doesn't. - I liked this, it was something new from the books and, for Non book readers it defines that she has come of age, it presents the idea that she was really excited about this event and that then feeds into later in her story arc. 

Braiding her hair achieved that in the book.  Literally not a single thing about it has fed into her story arc so far.  And if you're saying they couldn't afford the time to tell the story in the source material, why include this ridiculous waste?

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Rand and Egwene having premarital sex doesn't. - This defines so much so quickly. It makes it clear in one scene what the relationship is between them, meaning you don't have to lose screen time explaining it, or building it. The important thing to the Story of them is, they are in a relationship and then in several seasons time will almost come to blows. It also defines to the audience that this is a TV show that will deal with sex, important given that in later seasons there are some very adult themes coming up (poly relationships, multiple rapes, compulsion being used to create hareems). 

We don't need to be told they're having premarital sex (in violation of the norms of the Two Rivers in the books) to know they're in a relationship.  No additional screen time would have been needed to "explain" anything without it.  The adult themes that we will see later don't change that.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Having Marin al'Vere recognize Moiraine as Aes Sedai on sight doesn't - It again explains to the audience straight away quickly who she is, it allows us to get that sense that she is respected and also feared. If you go the route of the books then episode 1,2 and 3 will be spent in Emonds field, that is just wasted TV time on something that really is of little importance compared to the entirety of the series. 

The audience already knew who Moraine is.  The story is being told with her as the main protagonist.

And I don't know where you get the idea that not doing this would have required three episodes to get away.  Literally nothing anyone has said supports that claim.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Nynaeve's story about her predecessor having been turned away from the Tower because she was poor doesn't. - This is key, in the books you don't really learn about those who are turned away until far later, but for a non book reader this is important information for things that will come later in the series. It also defines really easily a reason for Nyn to dislike the Aes Sedai without having to spend 3 episodes "scene setting"

Again with the "3 episodes" thing.  Nothing would have required that.

 

Nynaeve's story is a complete invention that directly contradicts what we know from the books about how the White Tower deals with potential Novices.  Hell, it directly contradicts what Suian's cold open tells us.  If anything, Siuan even poorer than Nynaeve's predecessor would have been.  And she became Amyrlin.  At the very least, Moiraine should have told her that.

Nynaeve had plenty of reasons to dislike Aes Sedai without this ridiculous fantasy.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Moiraine and Lan knowing the Fade was already there and trollocs were coming ahead of time - and doing nothing about it - doesn't. - confused by this that is not the read I got from the show, but also, in the books It is described that Morraine and Lan warned the villiage just as the Trollocs where attacking. 

In the show, Lan has already discovered evidence that a Fade is nearby, and that trollocs are likely with it, before the lantern ceremony.  When he tells Moiraine what he found, he tells her they need to leave.  NOT that they need to do something to protect the village.  Hell, in the show a Fade rides his horse into the middle of the village the night before, and neither of them notices a thing.

 

In the book, they didn't know ahead of time that any shadowspawn were nearby (because they hadn't arrived yet), but warned the village as soon as they detected them.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Killing Master Hightower (without even giving him the courtesy of being named) doesn't. - It explains one of the 3 laws, but also he isn't an important character, his death doesn't change anything about the story. 

Yes, his death doesn't add anything to the story.  So why kill him?

The book managed to introduce the Three Oaths without it.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

I am surprised Perrin wasn't included, him killing his wife also makes sense in many ways.

I disagree on whether it makes sense, but I didn't include it because I already know all the arguments on both sides, and that Rafe explicitly did it to advance the show.  However poor I find that reason, I at least know he HAD a reason

 

My primary issue with introducing Laila just to fridge her is that it is done to create a conflict in Perrin that isn't what his *actual* conflict was in the books.  Having him kill someone in the first episode was irrelevant to that.

 

Violence vs. the Way of the Leaf was never his conflict.  In the book, he had actually spent his time with the Tinkers explaining why the Way was incompatible with the world as it actually existed.  He never considered taking it up himself.  Even his choice between the axe and the hammer wasn't about that.

Perrin's conflict was between his wolf nature and his humanity. 

The axe/hammer question was never about rejecting violence.  It was about choosing something that was ONLY for violence or something that had other uses.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Andra

[Juan Farstrider]

17 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

... many many many millions more who watched and enjoyed it seem to disagree. 

So, not just many millions but many many many millions?

17 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

See the 20-30 people I know who watched it enjoyed it and are looking forward to season 2. 

I saw this on Get Smart long ago. I wonder if we'll get the whole bit here. 

11 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Amazon actually has fewer Prime members that watch TV then you realise, that is one of the reason they are pushing original series to try and get more people watching the TV side of Prime. ...

 

Yes! I love Get Smart!  Here's the first time he did that bit:

11 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Book readers are not, and should not be the target audience here. There are not enough in the world to warrant making a TV show with this budget. The target audience has to be people who have never read the books, and, Amazon also wants to draw in people who never usually watch fantasy TV shows. That feeds very much into the tone of the show as well and many of the creative decisions of what to cut and keep. 

Wait, hold up. Amazon does not have that many subscribers, and "they are pushing original series to try and get more people watching the TV side of Prime", but book readers are not and should not be the target audience HERE? 

Why would anyone be enticed into watching the TV side of Prime for some fantasy book series they probably know nothing about? Why would they watch it if they "never usually watch fantasy TV shows"?  So, Amazon was creating shows intended for people are not even fans of the genre by your logic. But logic logic would instead have them adapt shows from books that had loyal audiences who would watch the show if it was good. Then word of mouth from zealous and happy Book Cloaks, may the light ever illume our pages, would bring people in. That's what GoT did. 

Maybe your logic is why Bezos lost money on Amazon for so long before turning a profit and now owning the world. If he had instead used logic logic, we'd all be working at Amazon fulfillment centers and running home to see our groceries on our stoop delivered amazon drones watching an actual wheel of time. By your logic he may as well given us Pat Sajak and Vanna White as Lan and Moraine and made the Wheel a Game show. Why not? It would bring people into the genre. Which genre? I forget.  

GoT grew to what it was because the book readers were pleased and wouldn't shut up about it. I wasn't going to watch it, but a woman I was attracted to watched it I was like "oh, I'll have something to talk to her about" (and that went about as well as one would expect. Yes we're friends). Otherwise I'd think the mother of dragons had the greatest ob/gyn in all westeros. (Yes I know she was still on Easteros Island or what ever). We'll see if Wheel of Time gets four seasons. I'd be surprised actually. They're in for two. If it bombs will they leave it hanging? They might finish it up just because they talked about it being their Game of Thrones. We'll see. 

[Andra]

So this is part of an actual conversation I had with a friend who was unfamiliar with the books (beyond knowing that they existed, and that I had read them) after he watched the first three-episode drop.  A friend who is notorious for his tendency to pick up the smallest detail from whatever he watches.

 

Me: "So what did you think about the way they made Emond's Field look?" (I asked in part because of how the show got rid of the famous thatched roofs, and the tiled roof of the Winespring Inn).

Him: "Emond's Field?  What's that?"

Me: "It's the name of the village our four/five protagonists come from."

Him: "No, that's called 'Two Rivers.'"

Me: "No, it's actually called 'Emond's Field' after the battlefield where King Aemon died."

Him: "No, it's 'Two Rivers' and it's where Queen Eldrene burned herself out.  Where are you getting this other stuff?"

Me: "Sigh."

Edited February 5, 2022 by Andra

[Andra]

10 hours ago, Skipp said:

And deciding to view the show as a different turning of the wheel is neither a good nor a bad thing. 

Actually, it's a horrendously bad thing - a pathetic copout that was invented to explain away a raft of indefensible changes.

 

A different turning of the wheel wouldn't have people and places with all the same names.  It would be, you know, different.  This isn't that.

 

The Wheel spins out souls over and over again.  Those souls don't have the same names every time.  We know they don't, just from what we see at Falme.  Nor do the places they live.

 

This is in fact the exact same turning of the wheel, just with so much changed for no apparent reason that  someone had to come up with a cute excuse for it.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Andra

[Cauthonfan4]

6 hours ago, Juan Farstrider said:

Why would anyone be enticed into watching the TV side of Prime for some fantasy book series they probably know nothing about? Why would they watch it if they "never usually watch fantasy TV shows"?  So, Amazon was creating shows intended for people are not even fans of the genre by your logic. But logic logic would instead have them adapt shows from books that had loyal audiences who would watch the show if it was good. Then word of mouth from zealous and happy Book Cloaks, may the light ever illume our pages, would bring people in. That's what GoT did. 

Furthermore, if you're not going to target fans of the books, why bother adapting wheel of time at all?

why not just create a new original property where you're not going to face backlash like this for changing so much of the source material? 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[EmreY]

41 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Furthermore, if you're not going to target fans of the books, why bother adapting wheel of time at all?

why not just create a new original property where you're not going to face backlash like this for changing so much of the source material? 

 

There are no new stories, only retellings of older ones. ? 

[Cauthonfan4]

2 minutes ago, EmreY said:

There are no new stories, only retellings of older ones.

Plenty of new stories to be seen out there. Either way, instead of wrecking a beloved property, why not make something your own?

[EmreY]

9 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Plenty of new stories to be seen out there. Either way, instead of wrecking a beloved property, why not make something your own?

 

Yes, let's leave aside the paucity or not of new stories.  What on earth do your comments have to do with whether non-fans people watching with you liked the series or not?  

[Cauthonfan4]

38 minutes ago, EmreY said:

What on earth do your comments have to do with whether non-fans people watching with you liked the series or not?  

if they are non fans it would not matter what the source of the series is, so why take a beloved property, ruin it for the fans, in order to present a story to non fans?

why not just make a new story? non fans nothing changes for them, and for the fans of the series? well it no longer applies because you're not adapting their series anymore. It makes zero sense to take an established series, and make widespread changes to appeal to something other then the target audience, you should have just made something new in general.

 

making changes to appeal to a new audience? fine. making so many changes you alienate the existing audience? that is problematic.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

if they are non fans it would not matter what the source of the series is, so why take a beloved property, ruin it for the fans, in order to present a story to non fans?

why not just make a new story? non fans nothing changes for them, and for the fans of the series? well it no longer applies because you're not adapting their series anymore. It makes zero sense to take an established series, and make widespread changes to appeal to something other then the target audience, you should have just made something new in general.

 

making changes to appeal to a new audience? fine. making so many changes you alienate the existing audience? that is problematic.

 

No answer, just a minestrone-like rehash of your previous points, which really have nothing to do with how non-fans reacted. 

 

I get it.  You're upset.  You don't like the show for a number of reasons.  Nor (as per previous posts) did most of the people you know who fit in the non-fan category.  Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum?

Edited February 5, 2022 by EmreY

[Raal Gurniss]

2 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

No answer, just a minestrone-like rehash of your previous points, which really have nothing to do with how non-fans reacted. 

 

I get it.  You're upset.  You don't like the show for a number of reasons.  Nor (as per previous posts) did most of the people you know who fit in the non-fan category.  Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum?

Isn’t that what any post is on the point in question is though?

Truth is despite all the rhetoric from both sides,  people we know will like it/dislike it/not really care one way or the other.

 

And that is pretty much the whole of it…

 

If people have a varied social circle all three views will be represented..You could post personal statistics such as out of a social circle of 100 people 90 won’t have watched the show, 1 liked it, 6 disliked it and 3 were neutral(in my circle).

 

But all thats based purely on an honour system…I mean odds are someone saying their entire social circle loved it or hated it is probably not being particularly genuine.