How did the show hold up for you?

[DojoToad]

Just now, Masha said:

Most likely. I heard that Rafe originally plotted 2 hr pilot and 10 more episodes, Amazon paid for 8. So a lot got cut.

10 more episodes, so 18 total?  Plus cutting the pilot in half.

 

No wonder this show is so choppy.  If Rafe couldn't get it done as he wanted, he should have walked - because what he put together is not good and may hurt him for future opportunities.

[Masha]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

10 more episodes, so 18 total?  Plus cutting the pilot in half.

 

No wonder this show is so choppy.  If Rafe couldn't get it done as he wanted, he should have walked - because what he put together is not good and may hurt him for future opportunities.

Sorry, I mean 2 hour pilot + 10 episodes, so 12 hrs total, like regular Netflix season length.

[Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Wait, so Elayne is a redhead?

 

Like, we just heard loial tell rand he must be aiel because of his hair, but now Elayne is is a redhead?

 

Its nit a huge deal, but be consistent.

 

Like the books

[SinisterDeath]

7 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I don't pay attention to casting announcements at all. Im a partner in a law firm, keeping up with Judkins isn't a priority.

 

And again, we should have met her already.

It's really not hard to follow any of this, or even to check out the IMDB page from time to time.
 

3 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Wait, so Elayne is a redhead?

 

Like, we just heard loial tell rand he must be aiel because of his hair, but now Elayne is is a redhead?

 

Its nit a huge deal, but be consistent.

So, you don't have time to check out an IMDB page, but have enough time to nit pick about an actors hair color that mostly matches the character description?
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Elayne_Trakand

 

You're still not convincing me you're not trollin.

 

[Apoc81]

Just now, SinisterDeath said:

It's really not hard to follow any of this, or even to check out the IMDB page from time to time.
 

So, you don't have time to check out an IMDB page, but have enough time to nit pick about an actors hair color that mostly matches the character description?
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Elayne_Trakand

 

You're still not convincing me you're not trollin.

 

So don't reply to me then. 

Reddish golden is strawberry blonde. It means theres a reddish tint to her golden hair, not that she's a ginger. 

[Spiritweaver1]

21 hours ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

 

 

Things I am mostly positive are not going to happen: 

 

1. Mat saving Nynaeve and Egwene in Tear. Never going to happen. 

2. Rand/Taim commanding the Aes Sedai to kneel. Not allowed. 

3. Mat getting his foxhead medallion and becoming a constant source of frustration for Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne. 

4. Rand entering Rhuidean with just Mat. Egwene is definitely going to be there for some reason. 

5. Berelain being portrayed as a seductress like in the books. Very problematic. Reinforces a negative stereotype. 

6. Lanfear being evil because she was jealous that Lews Therin chose another woman over her. Also reinforces a negative stereotype. 

7. Egwene running off to chase Black Ajah. Show Egwene will not be allowed to make such an egregious mistake. She'll be kidnapped or something. 

8. I will be surprised (not shocked) if Nynaeve has a block in this version of the story. This one might actually happen. 

9. Mat as a loveable womanizer. NEVER going to happen. Book Mat is a literal rapist by today's standards. 

 

It should go without saying that I can't prove any of this, but I will take great pleasure in referencing this list if it turns out that I'm right. 

So I love it when one of us gets brave and shares a foretelling.  The problem is that it will get lost in the individual threads.  I tried to create a thread for capturing foretelling but it never took off.  I don't agree with many of yours but in Rafeland anything is possible.  Just a point Lanfear is evil because she lusts for power.  Thats why LTT left her.  That particular weakness has undone many a soul.  Do you think Egwene is going to be foolish enough to question Padain Fain in the dungeon at Fal Dara or is that not going to happen either?  

[Ralph]

50 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

Like the books

Eotw ch36

 

“Yes, that’s the way of your kind, isn’t it?” The Ogier’s voice changed, as if he were quoting something. “Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day.” Loial cocked his shaggy head expectantly, but Rand had no idea what it was he expected.

  A minute went by with Loial waiting, then another, and his long eyebrows began to draw down in puzzlement. But he still waited, the silence growing uncomfortable for Rand.

  “The Great Trees,” Rand said finally, just for something to break that silence. “Are they like Avendesora?”

  Loial sat up sharply; his chair squealed and cracked so loudly Rand thought it was going to come apart. “You know better than that. You, of all people.”

  “Me? How would I know?”

  “Are you playing a joke on me? Sometimes you Aielmen think the oddest things are funny.”

  “What? I’m not an Aielman! I’m from the Two Rivers. I never even saw an Aielman!”

  Loial shook his head, and the tufts on his ears drooped outward. “You see? Everything is changed, and half of what I know is useless. I hope I did not offend you. I’m sure your Two Rivers is a very fine place, wherever it is.”

  “Somebody told me,” Rand said, “that it was once called Manetheren. I’d never heard it, but maybe you. . . .”

 

Ch50

 

  “Strange clothes you wear, Child of the Dragon. Has the Wheel turned so far? Do the People of the Dragon return to the first Covenant? But you wear a sword. That is neither now nor then.”

  Rand had to work moisture in his mouth before he could speak. “I don’t know what you’re talking about. What do you mean?”

 

Ch40

Elaida had put down her knitting, Rand realized, and was studying him. She rose from her stool and slowly came down from the dais to stand before him. “From the Two Rivers?” she said. She reached a hand toward his head; he pulled away from her touch, and she let her hand drop. “With that red in his hair, and gray eyes? Two Rivers people are dark of hair and eye, and they seldom have such height.” Her hand darted out to push back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often. “Or such skin.”

  It was an effort not to clench his fists. “I was born in Emond’s Field,” he said stiffly. “My mother was an outlander; that’s where my eyes come from. My father is Tam al’Thor, a shepherd and farmer, as I am.”

  Elaida nodded slowly, never taking her eyes from his face. He met her gaze with a levelness that belied the sour feeling in his stomach. He saw her note the steadiness of his look. Still meeting him eye to eye, she moved her hand slowly toward him again. He resolved not to flinch this time.

  It was his sword she touched, not him, her hand closing around the hilt at the very top. Her fingers tightened and her eyes opened wide with surprise. “A shepherd from the Two Rivers,” she said softly, a whisper meant to be heard by all, “with a heron-mark sword.”

... 

“My Lord, when I told you I was from the Two Rivers you were surprised. And everybody else, your mother, Lord Gareth, Elaida Sedai”—a shiver ran down his back—“none of them. . . .” He could not finish it; he was not even sure why he started. I am Tam al’Thor’s son, even if I was not born in the Two Rivers.
 

Gawyn nodded as if it was for this he had been waiting. Still he hesitated. Rand opened his mouth to take back the unspoken question, and Gawyn said, “Wrap a shoufa around your head, Rand, and you would be the image of an Aielman. Odd, since Mother seems to think you sound like a Two Rivers man, at least. I wish we could have come to know one another, Rand al’Thor. Fare you well.”

  An Aielman.

 

But it is also stated that he looks like the Andoran royal family, especially his red hair. 

 

Eg in TGH
 

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

So don't reply to me then. 

Reddish golden is strawberry blonde. It means theres a reddish tint to her golden hair, not that she's a ginger. 

And Rosamund Pikes hair isn't naturally Black/Dark Brown.

Elayne isn't a "strawberry Blonde" Her hair has individual strands of Red & Gold.
If she was a Strawberry Blonde, RJ would have just said she was a Strawberry Blonde... For all Intents and purposes, she's a Ginger with blonde highlights.

[ArrylT]

There is a poll going on WoTShow reddit - I have included the current results if you're not on reddit - so far over 3000 votes (poll will be active for 3 days)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/rg2lvu/do_you_like_the_show_book_reader_vs_non_book/?signup_survey=true

 

 

1.8k

60.9%

Book reader - I like the show!

 

655

21.7%

Book reader - I like the show just enough.

 

298

9.9%

Book reader - I don't like the show.

 

166

5.5%

Non book reader - I like the show!

 

39

1.3%

Non book reader - I like the show just enough

.

21

0.7%

Non book reader - I don't like the show.

[Vambram]

@ArrylT

 

That is a very encouraging poll. Thank you for sharing it. 

[SinisterDeath]

17 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

1.8k

60.9%

Book reader - I like the show!

 

655

21.7%

Book reader - I like the show just enough.

 

298

9.9%

Book reader - I don't like the show.

From this limited set of data, we have 
2753 Book readers.

65.2%  liked it.
24% liked it enough

10.8% don't like it.

 

17 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

166

5.5%

Non book reader - I like the show!

 

39

1.3%

Non book reader - I like the show just enough

.

21

0.7%

Non book reader - I don't like the show.

From this limited set of data, we have 
226 Non-Book readers.

73.4% liked it

17.3% liked it enough

9.3% didn't like it.

 

As to the quality of that data... If we are to believe people who hate the show, they have made claims that Reddit mods ban show haters for offering any criticism. Whether true or not, any data sample is gunna have flaws. ? 

[Ralph]

9 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

From this limited set of data, we have 
2753 Book readers.

65.2%  liked it.
24% liked it enough

10.8% don't like it.

 

From this limited set of data, we have 
226 Non-Book readers.

73.4% liked it

17.3% liked it enough

9.3% didn't like it.

 

As to the quality of that data... If we are to believe people who hate the show, they have made claims that Reddit mods ban show haters for offering any criticism. Whether true or not, any data sample is gunna have flaws. ? 

 

Non book readers are less likely to be involved, especially the ones who don't like it and aren't interested in participating in chat about it. 

But the book reader sample is a good enough size

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

Non book readers are less likely to be involved, especially the ones who don't like it and aren't interested in participating in chat about it. 

But the book reader sample is a good enough size

Non-Book readers are less likely to join Subreddit about a new TV Series based on a book series*

Either way, the point of my post was to break down that data set into Readers and Non Readers to get a more accurate representation of like to dislike between them.
The data set seems to support the anecdotal evidence that non-readers are more likely to enjoy it then book readers.

 

[ArrylT]

44 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

From this limited set of data, we have 
2753 Book readers.

65.2%  liked it.
24% liked it enough

10.8% don't like it.

 

From this limited set of data, we have 
226 Non-Book readers.

73.4% liked it

17.3% liked it enough

9.3% didn't like it.

 

As to the quality of that data... If we are to believe people who hate the show, they have made claims that Reddit mods ban show haters for offering any criticism. Whether true or not, any data sample is gunna have flaws. ? 

 

Absolutely - not saying this poll is the end all / be all of anything,  Just another data point.  In the end it is up to each person to interpret it as they see fit.   ?

 

I am not active on reddit but I see that that poll was cross posted to another WOT forum and I have seen several critical threads posted on the WoTshow forum (including a thread that compiled criticisms across episodes into 1 thread).     So I wouldnt be surprised if the Mods there simply removed stuff that was breaking their 3 primary rules which seems to be

 

1. Be Kind and respectful. No harassment.

2. No book-only or unrelated content

3. No politics or NSFW content

 

Either way I appreciate you taking the time to do a more thorough breakdown.   Guess we'll see what the end results will be in a couple of days.   Interestingly enough the poll closes about 6-8h after Ep 7 drops.

[Kudzu]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

And Rosamund Pikes hair isn't naturally Black/Dark Brown.

Elayne isn't a "strawberry Blonde" Her hair has individual strands of Red & Gold.
If she was a Strawberry Blonde, RJ would have just said she was a Strawberry Blonde... For all Intents and purposes, she's a Ginger with blonde highlights.

 

What's the source for the individual strands of red and gold? It's always described as red-gold as far as I can recall, not red and gold. Just curious as I never pictured it that way.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Kudzu said:

 

What's the source for the individual strands of red and gold? It's always described as red-gold as far as I can recall, not red and gold. Just curious as I never pictured it that way.

I'm not finding anything that confirms she had both red & gold hair.

EoTW Chapter 40, Page 552 Rand describes her as having Red-Gold Curls.
TGH Chapter 24, Page 356 Egwene describes her as having "Reddish Gold" 
 

What each of these descriptions have in common is that they both start with Red, and end with Gold. 

For me, this says the predominant color is Red with Blonde highlights/ a slightly lighter shade of the Fiery Red hair Rand is supposed to have.

Effectively, I read Elayne's "Reddish Gold" as this.

 

And Strawberry Blonde as this.

 

And like always....

 

Hair dye exists... and a Natural Red Head won't have non-matching Eyebrows. *Cough* Daenerys *Cough*

[Kudzu]

Funny, cause I always pictured Elayne as closer to blonde and Avhienda as a deeper red. Head cannons be head cannons I guess.

 

I don't really care who has what hair colour in the show though. Even less important is the natural hair colour of the actor.

 

 

[elteryon]

***Stumbles into this post from the Winespring Inn after some of that brandy...Where am I and why are we talking about bald guys? I'm out... Stumbles off***

[Harldin]

As a stand alone TV Series 8/10

As an adaptation of the books 6/10 for me

It has its flaws and needs some improvement in the writing and there are a few things that have been changed that i'm not a fan of especially the Ways so far. Don't like the Waygate design or Channeling to open it. Will be interesting this week to see if there are any changes due to the break in filming and the fact that Rafe would have watched the virtually finished first 6 episodes before filming 7&8

[TheMountain]

6 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

From this limited set of data, we have 
2753 Book readers.

65.2%  liked it.
24% liked it enough

10.8% don't like it.

 

From this limited set of data, we have 
226 Non-Book readers.

73.4% liked it

17.3% liked it enough

9.3% didn't like it.

 

As to the quality of that data... If we are to believe people who hate the show, they have made claims that Reddit mods ban show haters for offering any criticism. Whether true or not, any data sample is gunna have flaws. ? 

 

I can personally vouch for this. My posts get removed automatically from r/WoT, but my comments are allowed to stay. There's kind of an evil genius to the methods of the mods there. The automod doesn't tell you that your post has been removed, it just looks like nobody is reading or upvoting it. Only if you try to find it separately will you see that it doesn't show up in "new posts." You can also use one of the "has my comment been removed?" bots to confirm. r/WoT used to have much more activity, but it has died down a lot recently. I'm pretty sure that this is why. There was a post a couple months ago from the mods saying that most criticism of the show would be removed as "low effort." 

 

r/wheeloftime allows criticism and is pretty hands-off though, and it's starting to grow bigger. I've had some really great discussions there.

 

r/WoTShow is the most ridiculously positive sub there is, they would eat up absolutely anything Amazon served them. Ironically though, I'm actually allowed to post there and haven't been banned or shadowbanned yet, I just get a lot of downvotes lol. I hear a lot of people complain about it though... I guess it just hasn't happened to me. One thing to be careful of... if you want to stay on the sub, do not comment, join, or post on r/WhiteCloaks (haters of the show), because r/WoTShow will automatically ban you.

Edited December 15, 2021 by TheMountain

[ArrylT]

48 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

 

I can personally vouch for this. My posts get removed automatically from r/WoT, but my comments are allowed to stay. There's kind of an evil genius to the methods of the mods there. The automod doesn't tell you that your post has been removed, it just looks like nobody is reading or upvoting it. Only if you try to find it separately will you see that it doesn't show up in "new posts." You can also use one of the "has my comment been removed?" bots to confirm. r/WoT used to have much more activity, but it has died down a lot recently. I'm pretty sure that this is why. There was a post a couple months ago from the mods saying that most criticism of the show would be removed as "low effort." 

 

r/wheeloftime allows criticism and is pretty hands-off though, and it's starting to grow bigger. I've had some really great discussions there.

 

r/WoTShow is the most ridiculously positive sub there is, they would eat up absolutely anything Amazon served them. Ironically though, I'm actually allowed to post there and haven't been banned or shadowbanned yet, I just get a lot of downvotes lol. I hear a lot of people complain about it though... I guess it just hasn't happened to me. One thing to be careful of... if you want to stay on the sub, do not comment, join, or post on r/WhiteCloaks (haters of the show), because r/WoTShow will automatically ban you.

 

 

I am sorry that you've been banned on certain Reddit forums.   

 

As mentioned I am not really active on reddit - I simply go there to read some of the posts, but never interact.   I have seen plenty of critical posts & threads on most of the forums, but I do concur that most of those forums seem similar to DM in that the tone is generally positive & friendly.     I have a thought I wanted to share and will do so when I have more of a chance to articulate it.  

 

[Sabbaday]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:56 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's good.

 

it's all a problem of expectations. as sanderson said through hoid, "give me an audience waiting to be entertained but expecting nothing special, to them i will be a king"

our own expectations were hyperinflated, that's all that's stopping us from really appreciating this show

Expectations for this series was that it would respect the story that was written.   My expectation was a recreation of an amazing world, with the characters following the storyline as closely as possible.   (See, Outlander  and GOT, LOTR)  Obviously,  some changes have to be made when putting an epic saga on TV.  But,  you don't throw in ridiculous changes with no logical reason to do it.   You don't take Perrin, have him married when he's supposed to be a inexperienced teenager only to kill his wife!  I  mean, come on.  You don't add Egwene in as a possible candidate to be the Dragon Reborn.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  You don't turn Rand and Egwene's budding love into a sexually active relationship.  So many things that are so wrong.   Each episode makes it worse.   Tom's cloak is mentioned over and over again in the book.  It was part of who he was as a character.  Who decided to ignore it?  Why?    I  hate what they've done with Wheel of Time.  What could have been a truly amazing series is a poorly done embarrassment.

[king of nowhere]

11 hours ago, ArrylT said:

There is a poll going on WoTShow reddit - I have included the current results if you're not on reddit - so far over 3000 votes (poll will be active for 3 days)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/rg2lvu/do_you_like_the_show_book_reader_vs_non_book/?signup_survey=true

 

 

1.8k

60.9%

Book reader - I like the show!

 

655

21.7%

Book reader - I like the show just enough.

 

298

9.9%

Book reader - I don't like the show.

 

166

5.5%

Non book reader - I like the show!

 

39

1.3%

Non book reader - I like the show just enough

.

21

0.7%

Non book reader - I don't like the show.

All those polls are inaccurate, though, because they only get results from people who answer them.

Indeed, two wildly different polls on two different forums show that.

Getting actually relevant statistics data would be virtually impossibile

 

[fra85uk]

Considering that WoTshow has already banned lots of users who were criticising the show it is incredible to see that there are some dislikes in the poll.

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, Sabbaday said:

 Obviously,  some changes have to be made when putting an epic saga on TV.  But,  you don't throw in ridiculous changes with no logical reason to do it.   

Many expressed this opinion. 

What you fail to realize, though, is that you can't just "make some changes" and then expect everything else stay the same. So you remove a scene because of limited screen time - and remember, they had to cut a lot - and that scene provided motivation to a character, so you can't have the caracter progress as before. Or maybe it put a character somewhere, and now you have to move the character in some other way.

Wot is slow, but it doesn't have the kind of filler you can juSt cut.

You call the changes illogic, but there's a rationale behind each of them. You can disagree with how it worked, whether it achieved the intended effect, but if you deny that there is a logic, you lose authority; you just look like you're talking of things you don't understand.

 

Regarding the oft-made comparison with lotr and got, you seem to ignore that those shows also were harshly criticized by "hardcore book fans" for "making unnecessary, illogic changes". 

Same as here