New Clip Released On Prime Video: Moiraine's Quest

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I think killer fog is one of the harder things to conceptualize without becoming too cheesy. The Mist tried it, and did alright. But it was more of monsters in it, not the mist itself. There are a lot of shows though that try using fog in any capacity they just miss the mark. So I think they did this to avoid an even larger complaint if they tried to do a faithful rendering, and it was garbage. Especially when you want it to look different from the One Power. There are a lot of tendrils already floating about.
 

I’m curious as to whether or not we will witness a trolloc get snagged by it in the show? I think my adjustment would make the shadows grab them and when they do almost have it become more tangible? Like an acidic tar like texture that is akin to the Blob, with lots of melting and crunching practical effects. Then as it consumes them graphically, it would dissipate back into shadow and lose its tangibility back into shadow, leaving a pile of bones and such. It would be visually fascinating and look more realistic. Could go much more horror film with it. Again, all speculation and spitballing, but I’d love your thoughts on it. Would you go for the 100% faithful adaptation or experiment?

So, Mashadar is supposed to be a "silvery mist", which yea, could be difficult to render. (Rendering black on black shadows is even tougher!)

Machin Shin is described as "semi-sentient darkness that flows like air".

Unfortunately it's almost looks like the graphics department rendered Mashadar in Shadar Logoth as Machin  Shin... and if we get the Ways, maybe they rendering Machin Shin as silver mist Mashadar?

My guess is... rendering "silver mist" in a black void, with floors and long bridges into nothingness is going to look better, then trying to render black shadows in blackness.... and rendering darkening shadows spreading across a city scape is going to look a lot better, then trying to render realistic Mist that grabs people... or they merged the two and are removing the waygate platforms entirely... 

[JaimAybara]

The silver mist so often just looks like fog machines on the ground. At least that is what immediately comes to mind. I need to try and think of other examples. I think in Arrival there is some like fog/cloud wide angles that were pretty cool. It will be interesting to see more footage though. 

What if they used visuals that were something like this below but made it silver would that have been more interesting to you? I find the movements eerie and ethereal. Hopefully we get some truly horrifying interactions on screen to with it too. 
 

 

And yeah I was curious too as to how much of skimming, Waygates, and portal stones would be joined as well. Whether they thought it was too many to discuss or even bother with. I just hope they really think that through too, because it could become problematic for one of Mat’s arcs. 

[Skipp]

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

So, Mashadar is supposed to be a "silvery mist", which yea, could be difficult to render. (Rendering black on black shadows is even tougher!)

Machin Shin is described as "semi-sentient darkness that flows like air".

Unfortunately it's almost looks like the graphics department rendered Mashadar in Shadar Logoth as Machin  Shin... and if we get the Ways, maybe they rendering Machin Shin as silver mist Mashadar?

My guess is... rendering "silver mist" in a black void, with floors and long bridges into nothingness is going to look better, then trying to render black shadows in blackness.... and rendering darkening shadows spreading across a city scape is going to look a lot better, then trying to render realistic Mist that grabs people... or they merged the two and are removing the waygate platforms entirely... 

 

That is an interesting thought.  I was assuming they wanted to avoid doing a silvery mist since they are making the One power look like floating white threads/tendrils.  But now I prefer your theory.

[JaimAybara]

17 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

The silver mist so often just looks like fog machines on the ground. At least that is what immediately comes to mind. I need to try and think of other examples. I think in Arrival there is some like fog/cloud wide angles that were pretty cool.

* Here is that image from Arrival that has a good visual from afar. 
 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Wassup]

39 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

...I’m curious as to whether or not we will witness a trolloc get snagged by it in the show? ...

 

I think the 1:00 mark shows a horse in Shadar Logoth that has been caught by Mashadar.  You can see its hooves crumbling away and the overall texture of the horse seems to be deteriorating.

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, Wassup said:

 

I think the 1:00 mark shows a horse in Shadar Logoth that has been caught by Mashadar.  You can see its hooves crumbling away and the overall texture of the horse seems to be deteriorating.

ooh! Good catch!
 

That better not be Bela.

[Skipp]

I will say that the Dialogue/script is a little clunky when Rosamund is talking about "The Last Dragon".  I think they could have worded those lines better.

[DaddyFinn]

5 hours ago, Skipp said:

I will say that the Dialogue/script is a little clunky when Rosamund is talking about "The Last Dragon".  I think they could have worded those lines better.

Totally agree, but it's fine as long as they don't use it as an official title. "The Last Dragon Reborn" ?

[DojoToad]

Liking the scenes.  Agree that Rosamund is a bit clunky.  Don't know if it is her or the lines she's reciting.  She just doesn't seem smooth.  Assuming will all be better in the show...

[DaddyFinn]

12 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Liking the scenes.  Agree that Rosamund is a bit clunky.  Don't know if it is her or the lines she's reciting.  She just doesn't seem smooth.  Assuming will all be better in the show...

She smiles too much when talking ?

[king of nowhere]

anyone wants to comment on the scenery? even if there were no actors, just all those landscapes would be worth watching the show. regardless of how they render mashadar - i'd have preferred its original description as mist - the shot of aridhol is magnificent. so are those of tar valon we see in other clips, and even the ones of emond field.

 

by the way someone should compile a list of symbolism, because there's a lot of it. i didn't notice that the slaughtered sheep are in the shape of the dragon's fang until some other poster pointed it out, and then i noticed in the next scene the cavern is seen through a hole the shape of the flame of tar valon. i'm sure there's a lot more

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

I like the way most of it looks ... Really dislike "The Last Dragon Reborn" ... she doesn't know that (and the prophecy doesn't say that). MAJOR SPOILER

Spoiler

That Rand ends up being the Last Dragon is the major payoff and point of the ENTIRE SERIES

 

And ... I really, really dislike that Rafe has said now a couple times that the story is about Eastern beliefs and more about "balance" then light vs dark or good vs. evil. 

 

That worries me more than anything else by far because it tells me that he misunderstood the point of the ENTIRE SERIES!! 

 

Because you see - the oppressiveness of the cyclical worldview: that nomatter what you do everything is going to repeat. The Wheel will keep turning. Evil gets another shot to win... You see, the Wheel of Time itself ends up being the ultimate antagonist. 

Remember how it felt as a reader the first time you realized that the Forsaken would just come back Everytime? (That hopelessness is the major problem with the cyclical worldview).

 

How does evil ever ultimately get defeated if it's always just back again? That's the BIGGY question for that worldview. 

 

But Thank God. The Jewish people came along - and gave us a linear worldview. Time had a beginning. One God created everything. There will be a final judgement. Evil will one day (The Day of the Lord) be finally defeated and judged. 

 

The Wheel of Time is a brilliantly written series ... Every great piece of literature/art has to wrestle with the "big questions". And if Rafe has missed that the Big Question of the whole WoT series is: How do ever actually defeat evil in the cyclical/eastern worldview? 

 

Then I don't love what could happen with the other major, major decisions either. 

 

Are we gonna have an Egwene as a  possible Dragon misdirection? (That in itself would show that the writers/showrunner don't understand the Dragon/Savior dynamic) 

 

Are we going to have Moiraine be the "main character"? (That would show that they don't understand that Moiraine is the WoT's Gandalf/Guide character). 

 

Catch my drift?

 

But perhaps ... perhaps as we go along they'll grow as a team. And in the end, we'll get a good product. 

 

We'll see.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Borderlander]

19 hours ago, Skipp said:

I will say that the Dialogue/script is a little clunky when Rosamund is talking about "The Last Dragon".  I think they could have worded those lines better.

 

Warning: this is very nitpicky!

 

I also felt like there was a lot of clunkiness in the dialogue in the initial teaser. These three lines jumped out at me:

 

"The only thing that matters is what you do." (I think this was Siuan speaking, but I could be wrong.)

 

"No matter what happens, all the pain we face..." (Tam)

 

"Whatever happens now, there's no turning back." (Moiraine)

 

 

(I'll say at the outset, I am not sure which (if any) of those lines are direct quotes from the books. I don;t have e-versions that I can cross-reference.)

 

That said, to my ear, the repeated use of the same simple words and similar phrasing is like being hit in the side of the head with a blunt piece of wood. Many writers spend a lot of time trying to make sure they don't repeat the same words over and over in close proximity... That, of course, is personal preference, but when you read bad writing, the overuse of the same word jumps off the page like they were written in red ink. In cases like this (meaning the above 3 examples) there is a temptation to argue that 'that's what a character would really say! They would all use the same words as one another, and the same types of phrases, so we're just representing the most realistic, natural modes of speaking.' That is not necessarily untrue, but part of a writer's job is (imo) to represent something that feels natural and realistic without slavishly adhering to that approach at the cost of your finished product sounding dull and repetitive. (This applies to many forms of art; I am only applying it to dialogue in this case.) 

 

A counter argument might be that the repetition in this trailer is intentional in order to hammer home a theme. That theme, I suppose, would be something about how stuff happens, and how the consequences of that stuff matters. Which, sure. But we couldn't workshop the language for another half-hour and come up with some slightly more interesting phraseology. Not saying we need Shakespearean verse every other line, but some of these sentences sound like they were written in one pass. (See similar threads/posts about young(ish) TV writers attempting to adapt the style of a Bestselling author who spent years penning his prose.) Ultimately, these lines just sound so... basic. Uninspired. Sterile. Spiritless. Unimaginative. Again, we don't need Tam speaking in iambic pentameter or every character to sound like they are regurgitating a medieval thesaurus, but a little linguistic creativity would go a long way.

 

This is, obviously, entirely subjective. Some will say simple, straight-to-the-point sentences and two-syllable words are preferable to overly-wrought, pretentious dialogue, but I think there can be a sweet spot in between—it just takes time and effort to find it... and I'm not sure we've seen any examples yet. (Acknowledging, of course, that we have a very small sample size to draw from.) 

 

(I will write another post on the things I do like soon! ? )

 

[Elder_Haman]

41 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I like the way most of it looks ... Really dislike "The Last Dragon Reborn" ... she doesn't know that (and the prophecy doesn't say that).

 

She’s simply ordering the Dragon in time. The “last” meaning “the one that was before this one”. Synonymous with “prior” or “previous” as opposed to “final”. 

[Maximillion]

59 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

 

Are we gonna have an Egwene as a  possible Dragon misdirection? (That in itself would show that the writers/showrunner don't understand the Dragon/Savior dynamic) 

 

 

 

Lol, if they did that then the entire thing will be destroyed.

I would not however discount it, sadly.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Maximillion

[Skipp]

4 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Lol, if they did that then the entire thing will be destroyed.

I would not however discount it, sadly.

 

A Misdirection for an audience whom haven't read the books should be fine.  Mystery for the first season can only help. 

 

Egwene could end up having Baalzamon dream by accidently entering her companions dreams.  Moiraine might not know how to take the fact that Egwene is having these dreams.  And it could all lead into the Egwene is a Dreamer storyline.

 

I highly doubt the story runners would make Egwene the actual Dragon Reborn that so many people are fretting about.

[Elder_Haman]

13 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

Admittedly I also found that diaglogue awkward but I have a feeling it was recorded specifically for that teaser and won't actually be in the show.

It most definitely was. It’s all voiceover, not dialogue. 

 

5 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

I would not however discount it, sadly

You should. There’s literally no reason to believe that “the writers don’t understand the … dynamic.”

 

Viewers may not immediately understand the mythology. The characters will. If there is misdirection including Egwene as a possible Dragon, it will not be explicit. 

[SinisterDeath]

*Cough*
I moved the off-topic discussion over to the Wheel of Time Books forum.

[TheDreadReader]

22 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

 

Egwene could end up having Baalzamon dream by accidently entering her companions dreams.  Moiraine might not know how to take the fact that Egwene is having these dreams.  And it could all lead into the Egwene is a Dreamer storyline.

 

 

Which book does Eqwene start manifesting dreamer talents? I forget.

 

 The first few times I watched the clip, I didn't really like that they had Egwene waking up with an audible gasp but then it really started to grew on me.   I really do like the idea of her displaying dreamer talents earlier in the story and maybe sharing a little of the dreams that the boys have.  The writers could use that to develop some empathy/sympathy traits for her character which could help build a real emotional center for her character moving forward.  It would also establish a good foundation for going to the Waste later on from a pure plot perspective.

 

 

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Which book does Eqwene start manifesting dreamer talents? I forget.

 

 The first few times I watched the clip, I didn't really like that they had Egwene waking up with an audible gasp but then it really started to grew on me.   I really do like the idea of her displaying dreamer talents earlier in the story and maybe sharing a little of the dreams that the boys have.  The writers could use that to develop some empathy/sympathy traits for her character which could help build a real emotional center for her character moving forward.  It would also establish a good foundation for going to the Waste later on from a pure plot perspective.

 

 

 

I believe it is first mentioned in tGH.  Egwene is boarding the boat with the rest of the Aes Sedai when she tells a Blue Ajah(whose name I cannot remember, but I think they are killed off later around the time Salidar starts marching towards the tower). about a dream she had about Rand.  The blue Ajah tells her it was likely a bad dream but MAYBE she is a dreamer and she'll look into testing her at a later date.

[Beidomon]

Well I’m generally pretty critical of what I’ve seen so far, but I thought this was the best yet.