full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Taishar Hawaii]

A couple of thing's have started to get me thinking:

- Liandrin says to the male channeler:  'You men make it dirty.' (or some variation of)

- Moiraine emphasizing to Egwene it's all ONE power.

 

Has the show eliminated Saidin?  Or am I just reading too much into it?

[AusLeviathan]

7 minutes ago, Taishar Hawaii said:

Has the show eliminated Saidin?

The line about men touching it making it dirty matches what we've seen from promo images of Logain channeling, where the One Power initially appears white before quickly turning black. So it's possible they're going to try and downplay the two halves of the One Power aspect, though I don't know how that would  work with the story.

 

We'll find out soon enough I guess since the next episode seems to deal with Logain.

Edited November 21, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[DaddyFinn]

Saidin and saidar are mentioned in interviews and the bonus content/explore-section.

[Taishar Hawaii]

7 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Saidin and saidar are mentioned in interviews and the bonus content/explore-section.

Good to know

[AusLeviathan]

15 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Saidin and saidar are mentioned in interviews and the bonus content/explore-section.

I would put the disclaimer on this that Bela was also mentioned quite a bit in the interviews (Rafe said it was important they get her right for the fans) and explore section.

 

So far we've had like one brief mention of her name in the show and pretty much all focus that related to her including a plot relevant moment has been removed. Plus it's not clear what happened to her after Shadar Logoth, she sort of just disappeared.

 

So take it all with a grain of salt.

Edited November 21, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[DaddyFinn]

6 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

I would put the disclaimer on this that Bela was also mentioned quite a bit in the interviews (Rafe said it was important they get her right for the fans) and explore section.

 

So far we've had like one brief mention of her name in the show and pretty much all focus that related to her including a plot relevant moment has been removed. Plus it's not clear what happened to her after Shadar Logoth, she sort of just disappeared.

 

So take it all with a grain of salt.

Don't plant seeds of doubt into my mind. ?

[TheMountain]

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

Don't plant seeds of doubt into my mind. ?

Tell me about it lol. The more I read these things, the more I go "oh yeahhh... I didn't even think about that until now!" and start to doubt my initial positive take lol. Episode 4 can't come soon enough.

[AusLeviathan]

6 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Don't plant seeds of doubt into my mind.

I know, but the way I see it, if I prepare for the worst then I won't be shocked if we get that change, plus it means if we don't get that change then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

Seriously though, that better not have been the end of Bela, at least give her a better ending if they don't want to keep her in the show past the first season.

Edited November 21, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Chwooly]

On 11/21/2021 at 2:19 PM, AusLeviathan said:

I would put the disclaimer on this that Bela was also mentioned quite a bit in the interviews (Rafe said it was important they get her right for the fans) and explore section.

 

Delete

Edited November 23, 2021 by Chwooly

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, SonOfBattles82 said:

A fan could have written a better screen adaptation.

Anyone can write anything. Good luck bringing that to screen.

[Harad the White]

1 hour ago, TheMountain said:

 

Ok I bite. "I told him...", and then nearby "mistborn" is BS on reddit. Who's telling who?

[Harad the White]

3 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

You think Nynaeve killing a Trolloc is an enhancement over Nynaeve writing off Tam as a dead man who nothing can be done for only to watch Moiraine heal what Nyaneve considered to be a definitely fatal wound which begins Nynaeve's arc of never wanting to be unable to heal someone again?

 

One is a generic scene which tells us nothing of her character, the other is a scene that defined her character.

 

This is why critics said they have no idea who these characters are, because for some reason they removed a lot of their early defining character moments in favor of generic TV show tropes.

Yes, I do. She later heals Moraine so that gives her the huge healer cred as in the book. Meanwhile, she is not just a healer, as some stereotypical roles might have it, but a literal warrior, as in the book, but made evident early in the series.

[AusLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Harad the White said:

Meanwhile, she is not just a healer, as some stereotypical roles might have it, but a literal warrior, as in the book, but made evident early in the series.

She chooses the Ajah dedicated to healing, it's who she is. What in the books makes you think she's a warrior? She has a short temper certainly, she's brave, she'll punch a person or throw something if the situation requires it and she's a very capable person, but a warrior?

 

It's a massive disservice to her character to call her that. In fact in TDR she shows disdain for the idea of carrying weapons like the Maidens do and suggests doing so is a foolish male thing.

 

Granted so far all women in the show seem to be warriors in their own way so it seems to be an across the board change.

 

Anyone who thinks that the first three episodes are a good representation of Nynaeve needs to reread the books, it's a very different interpretation.

Edited November 21, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, Harad the White said:

The only meaningful deviation between the book and series in 1-3 is the suggestion that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman. This one is puzzling. It throws on its head the idea that in that world there is a dichotomy between women who "normally" channel, mainly the Aes Sedai, and men who are forbidden to channel, mainly by the Aes Sedai. Why would Sanderson apparently endorse this change. It's hard to believe this is due to modern day ideas of gender equality.

Could it be that this was seen as an improvement by Sanderson. The book, from the beginning points to Rand, with a little ambiguity with Matt and Perrin. Yet Egwene and Nynaeve are crucial main characters as well. Here's how it could make sense. The idea is based upon the Forsaken, divided between men and women who were both prodigious channelers. If they and the original Dragon were part of the same "species" then obviously gender was not a distinguishing feature-the only ranking was by strength. The ambiguity among 3 or among 5 doesn't seem important, but the idea is consistent with the rules of the world. It remains to be seen how this aids the narrative, although it does nicely point viewers to five main characters, as they were in the book.

 

• Perrin married then he kills his blacksmith wife.
• Mat is now a thief.
• Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk.
• Egwene and Rand having sex. On the same day the Womans circle deems her a adult.
• Moiraine and Lan bathing together.
• Tam a blademaster can not kill 1 trolloc with aid of Rand. Why was only 1 trolloc sent to the al'thor farm
• Nynaeve able to kill a trolloc 1vs1 with no channeling or even having a weapon before stealing one from the trolloc
• Nynaeve able to sneak up on Lan. Track him maybe but too get close enough to kill him without him knowing, garbage.
• Moiraine announcing to the whole village she is aes sedai then spending most of the rest of the episodes as a wounded passenger.
• Emonds Field looks like a collection of squalid hovels.
• Shadar Logoth apparently a city with no gate. WTF
• Mordeth not encountered in Shadar Logoth
• Thom a thief
• Whitecloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing.

And you think theres no meaningful changes and this is far from exhaustive

[Mailman]

47 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Yes, I do. She later heals Moraine so that gives her the huge healer cred as in the book. Meanwhile, she is not just a healer, as some stereotypical roles might have it, but a literal warrior, as in the book, but made evident early in the series.

She is never a warrior in a swords and hand to hand manner at any point in the books. The most physical violence she inflicts in the entire series is when she kicks Matt in the backside in Salidar then spends the rest of the time hiding from him as Saidar could not effect him.

 

She fights people with the saidar once she learns to control it.

 

From what i have seen she has not healed Moraine in the series she has only pressed some herbs she found into the wound and Lan has found Aes Sedai to heal her. To the best of my knowledge she never heals Moirane in the books only gives her some herbs to help her sleep and remain alert.

 

[Maximillion]

Making Nynaeve a ‘warrior’ is a complete departure from the books.

Just really bad and lazy writing on her character in the first 3 episodes, very formulaic and designed to appeal at the superficial level.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Maximillion

[Maximillion]

12 hours ago, Beidomon said:

To be honest, while it’s clear they’re trying to build up the female characters - Wonder Woman Nynaeve - it didn’t really dawn on me that there conversely shitting all over the male characters. Yeah, I guess I can see that. But I could forgive that if the show was at least good. After three episodes I’d say it’s mediocre at best. The trouble is that the stuff I’m bothered is more production-related stuff. It looks YA/CW, the “music”sucks, the dialogue is too often cheesy, etc.  

 

To be honest I hadn’t spotted it much (although it is totally obvious with the way they have portrayed Nynaeve . Wonder Woman is right. It’s stupid.) but apart from that it can’t be that bad as I was looking out for it. You’re right though. Rafe is doing exactly that with the characters.

 Like you say, the it needs to be really good to make up for it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Maximillion

[Rand the Plumber]

14 hours ago, Akragard said:

I think being able to see the Weaves will be increasingly important. Particularly when you get to splitting weaves and healing later in the series. It was something I really liked. I thought the representation of the One Power was a good idea.

 

The more I think of it, the more I would have preferred to see some subtle shading of the weaves, to indicate which power were being woven.  Red for fire, blue for water, etc.  But I do like the concept.

[deathgate]

I didn't take Nynaeve to be a warrior. They changed when she met up with Moiraine and Lan but other than threatening him which I took to be because she's protective I don't see that much difference. Now if they keep showing her fight with weapons I will change my mind. So far overall I'm mixed. I know Rafe said to think of this as another telling of the wheel, that some characters need to be moved around to attract better actors, and because of time restraints many things will have to be changed and rushed. So right now I'm feeling the rushed part and not understanding the reasoning for some of the changes. However I'm hoping a lot of them will make more sense as this goes along. My main gripe is just how sullen the two rivers kids are but I think that's mostly because we didn't get to see them for any length of time pre-invasion and post invasion in the books they weren't that cheerful either at first. Sure hoping some of their general humor and playfulness together shows top as they learn and accept their new reality - actually Thom was the only one showing that. 

[rowdie]

On 11/19/2021 at 12:03 PM, flinn said:

Very disappointed in the first 3 episodes. There are things I absolutely HATE and there are things that I like. Unfortunately, there is nothing that I "love", so the hate sticks out much much more than what I like..

 

 I HATE

 

 Thom Merrilin is freaking awful. I can literally go out into a crowd, throw a rock up into the air and whomever it hits would be a better singer than the crap performance we saw from Thom. He is supposed to be a MASTER GLEEMAN and former COURT BARD and his voice is AWFUL. Like he spent the past 2 months snorting all the cocaine in the world and then trying to sing. Now I am supposed to believe that scratch voice is filling up inns to hear that? I guarantee every village/town has much much more talented musicians over our Thom.

 

 Lan crying like a little baby that the water was TOO COLD for his sensitive little skin. Lan allowing Nynaeve not to just track him down, but SNEAK UP BEHIND HIM AND PUT A KNIFE TO HIS THROAT!!!!! Are you freaking kidding me? This guy survived the Aiel War but lets a villager sneak up and put a knife to his throat? Completely unbelievable. Now, anything cool he does will be unbelievable because we know he is crap at his job, he cant even handle a little bit of NOT HOT water.

 

Perrin killing his wife?!? I was 100% all for his wife being killed in the raid. That would have really given some insight to his completely obsessed, overprotective, ridiculous arc with Faile. Killing his wife completely changes that for me. Now I only see him as the person who killed his own wife. No sympathy for his struggles from now on. Whatever he does, doesn't matter, he killed his wife. Then he didnt even bury her. He left his wife laying on the ground and rode out of town. Now, maybe he simply didnt care about her, ok... thats fine, but then dont try to get sympathy for it.

 

 Then we have the Tinkers?!?! The most drab, grey, gloomy, threatening group of the show.

 

 Did Rafe even read the books?

I agree.  The tinkers are the worst, they look like DAPL protesters.

[rowdie]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

• Perrin married then he kills his blacksmith wife.
• Mat is now a thief.
• Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk.
• Egwene and Rand having sex. On the same day the Womans circle deems her a adult.
• Moiraine and Lan bathing together.
• Tam a blademaster can not kill 1 trolloc with aid of Rand. Why was only 1 trolloc sent to the al'thor farm
• Nynaeve able to kill a trolloc 1vs1 with no channeling or even having a weapon before stealing one from the trolloc
• Nynaeve able to sneak up on Lan. Track him maybe but too get close enough to kill him without him knowing, garbage.
• Moiraine announcing to the whole village she is aes sedai then spending most of the rest of the episodes as a wounded passenger.
• Emonds Field looks like a collection of squalid hovels.
• Shadar Logoth apparently a city with no gate. WTF
• Mordeth not encountered in Shadar Logoth
• Thom a thief
• Whitecloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing.

And you think theres no meaningful changes and this is far from exhaustive

And where's Mat's bow?  Rand has one right away?  

 

 

[rowdie]

Someone EXPLAIN how white cloaks can just burn an Aes Sedi without her using the power to crush them?

[Dreamwalker]

I've been a member of these forums since before the series finished. Reading these threads last night, I was getting pretty frustrated with a bunch of comments making it seem like folks think anyone who actually *liked* the first few episodes must not have really been a true book fan or understand the series, lots of saying they don't believe the showrunner (an avowed fan) read the series at all. So as someone who has read the series several times but like the show so far I am feeling a bit marginalized here. We are a diverse group of fans so we will all have different opinions, don't assume someone disagreeing hasn't read the books or "doesn't get them".

 

I've also been a bit frustrated with some of the vocal fandom complaining of the show being too "feminist" (along with some of the racist complaints mentioned elsewhere). Made it feel a bit hostile here to me. WoT takes place in a world that has some very matriarchal aspects so why shouldn't the show be showing the Women's Council running things etc - it helps quickly convey some key aspects of this world for a new viewer! Nynaeve tracking Lan happens in the books too, she startles him when Moiraine notices her first! And then I saw people complaining that the show is performing best with women in their 20s as if that's proof it's not performing well with book readers.

 

So some of the complaints really just start to make me feel like there is a set of fans out there that really want to draw a line around who is really a fan of this series and are excluding a whole bunch of folks, including myself. I don't think that people intend this (I hope), but it is the way some of the discourse here reads.

 

You can not like the show, and I have some of my own complaints about it, but having a thought before you write up your opinion about how you say it, matters. Basically speak your mind about your own opinion, but don't make assumptions about who has read the books and "understood them" or is a fan. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here on this forum, and people have different interpretations of literature and art - that's what makes a forum fun or else there is no discussion just an echo chamber.

[Akragard]

26 minutes ago, rowdie said:

Someone EXPLAIN how white cloaks can just burn an Aes Sedi without her using the power to crush them?

The power was focused based. There were many examples in the books of women unable to reach the One Power because of pain or some other form of overpowering distraction.  This really isn't unbelievable.

 

There is also a chance that they were in a Stedding at that point, as the original encounter between Perrin, Egwene and the Whitecloaks (in the books) happened in one, I believe.

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Akragard

[rowdie]

I remember the test for becoming Aes Sedi was being able to channel under extreme stress.  This just doesn't seem right with respect to the books.  Now if he has an object like a the fox head medalian, then ok.