tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[VooDooNut]

3 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Egwene/Nyneave I don't know what in the world that is. I assume Nyneave was near death but not dead because there's no way they're allowing death to actually be healed.

In the books, isn't the strongest woman in a circle able to take control of the circle from another, or am I misremembering? It kind of looks like Nynaeve took control of the circle at the last moment, and two things happened immediately after that: Nynaeve booted Egwene out of the circle, and since the maximum power of the weave became Nynaeve's limit, Amalisa immediately burned out with Nynaeve almost burning out before shutting the weave down.

 

This was easily the most epic moment of the whole season for me. Kinda terrifying how real the consequences of overchanneling are in this show, but it definitely makes the danger real. I feel this sequence sets the stage for the kinds of magic battles we'll see going forward, though hopefully with less eyeball melting.

[Kelin]

2 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

They're not.  Sorry.  Every complaint I've seen about "weak men" has been nonsense.  Having someone else do something doesn't make the original character weak.  Having someone not do something doesn't make them weak.

Lan was a consumate badass through the entire series, just not an emotionless rock.  He repeatedly does amazing things but because it doesn't come with some big flashy move.

I mean seriously, other than Abell Cauthon can we have an example of this supposed weakness?  Because as a man, I don't feel the male characters are weak, I don't feel like the female characters are dominating any more than I'd expect out of the world.

What are the amazing things Lan has done in the show? I can name several amazing things right off that various women have done. Men... actually nothing comes to mind, except the fight in the very first episode.

 

Yes, women are definitely dominating this show. Which is all right in itself, but it isn't the Wheel of Time.

[EmreY]

1 minute ago, Kelin said:

Yes, women are definitely dominating this show. Which is all right in itself, but it isn't the Wheel of Time.

 

Not sure I agree with you there, at this point in the books.

[DigificWriter]

30 minutes ago, flinn said:

 Sanderson just said on the DW that he wasnt allowed to consult on ep 8 because there were so many changes.

 

That's not what he said.

 

What he said is that he didn't have an opportunity to read the scripts for Episodes 7 and 8 because of the Covid shutdown and all of the turmoil that was going on behind-the-scenes at the time regarding Barney's departure.

[Hudson]

I'm going to go back and re-read everyones comments.  I just finished episode 8....

 

Season 1....3 of 10 Stars

 

Rafe does not understand the source material.

Rafe does not appreciate the source material.

Rafe is not skilled enough to do the source material justice.

#ReplaceRafe

[ForsakenPotato]

Oh boy, it was different than the end of the book and ways that I think are ok and some that are less ok. I'll try not to repeat too much of what others already said.

 

Good (for me) stuff:

- pacing and suspense very good this episode I thought, I was definitely on the edge of my seat!

- I get that people are pissed Rand didn't save them at Tarwin's Gap but personally it made more sense to me this way because the teleporting was confusing as hell in the book, especially on first read. For all the people saying they made the women channeling cooler, I didn't feel that way at all. Rand's first big channel was awesome! I really don't think five women linking for some lighting (and most of them dying in the process) is more impressive than killing a Forsaken. And what Rand did was clearly nothing even close to what he can do -- he just walked outta there after looking totally fine. Compare that to Moiraine's face after she channels in any of the earlier episodes, she looks completely wiped. That's the tip of the iceburg for his power compared to what we saw from Egwene and Nyneave who were at their maximum to the point of almost being killed. There's no comparison in my opinion.

- SEANCHAN! They look dope. The gags are much scarier to me than the collars (and more practical, anyone with a dog knows that leash is gonna be constantly tangled and caught on everything. You have magic, make something better).

- I didn't actually end up hating the change of the Eye to the Bore. I wonder if they will bring back the concept of the eye (source of untainted saidin) at some point later -- I think it could have more impact shown later once Rand has more experience with the corruption. Also didn't hate the seal being an actual big thing on the floor...in the books I always imagined them carrying around little plates or hockey pucks which never had the gravitas I wanted.

 

Not good (for me) stuff:

- Nyneave saying she'll go to the White Tower because if she's not a wisdom she could marry??? I love Lan and Nyneave as much as anyone else, but my girl Nyn is not basing her career choices on marriage. Does not fit with her character at all. The rest of their farewell was very sweet but I was put out of the moment by that bit.

- Would have loved to see Perrin and Padan fight for bit before he runs off with the horn, or Perrin fight the fades. I think there would have been time for something short, which would have been nice since as far as I can tell he was gonna help Uno and co but he got distracted and wandered down a hall instead?? Why buddy?? Also, Uno?? How is Nyneave gonna get back to the building fast enough to heal all these peeps...

- Opener had it's moments (seeing the age of legends out the window was very cool, I liked the actor for LTT) but I'm not sure this episode was the right moment for that scene...it sorta felt like they put it there just so we know who Lews Therin was for when Ishamael calls Rand that. Interspersing flashbacks and dreams earlier in the season would have been preferable imho.

- Would have rather had Lan stay back and fight trollocs, and then have Moiraine emerge at the end alone from the blight and meet him. Basically same outcome, but then we could have seen Lan fight!

- Not sure about letting everyone believe Rand is dead? I get that he wants that but I dunno why Moiraine would agree to it...although maybe she just let him believe she would and is about to spill the beans to Siuan and Verin.

 

???!!!!! Stuff:

- LOIAL????!!! NO! I'm sure he'll be fine but still. My heart. I don't think he'll replace Mat with the dagger for Season 2 -- Mat still ain't looking healthy to me. I do think Loial will get healed though. I hope. Right?? Right. Gotta believe.

- Moiraine stilled?????? Damn. She nailed the performance tho, I really felt her loss of the power very viscerally. I personally think she is stilled and not just shielded. Why would Ishamael just shield her if he could still her? A lot of her important stuff from now on isn't really about channeling anyway, and I think it's a good way to show what is at stake going up against the Forsaken.

- I'm torn on the Nyneave and Egwene thing after Amalisa is burnt out. I loved the demonstration of the lengths Nyneave will go to protect her people so emotionally I was there, but the mechanics of it all were iffy and confusing.

 

Little nuggets of goodness or weirdness:

- when Ishamael pulls the disguise into himself with Rand's arrow (and thank the light we finally see a real actor instead of Ol' Orange Eyes) it kinda sucked into him like the face of the little statue of him we saw in Tar Valon. That was a neat touch!

- they know what adrenaline is? glad they have Biology 101 in the white tower lol

- was the baby Rand saw the baby Min saw? Or is that still a future baby?

 

Overall though I'm feeling decent! This show is keeping me on my toes, and this had the appropriate amount of action for a finale and nods to what is coming next season.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by ForsakenPotato
add an actual conclusion

[KakitaOCU]

4 minutes ago, Kelin said:

What are the amazing things Lan has done in the show? I can name several amazing things right off that various women have done. Men... actually nothing comes to mind, except the fight in the very first episode.

 

Yes, women are definitely dominating this show. Which is all right in itself, but it isn't the Wheel of Time.

Lan in particular?

Saves Moraine repeatedly during episode 1
Leaves the group alone repeatedly to keep trollocs away and comes back with only minor cuts and scrapes in episode 2.
Saved the group with Shadar Logoth no matter what Moraine said and got her out of there in episode 3.
Went alone into the Blight and arrived at the eye completely untouched in episode 8.

Men in general:
Tam as a 20 year old rusty unpracticed swordsman scores multiple significant hits on a creature that towers over him in speed and strength.
Rand keeps cool in hsi first ever fight and puts arrows and a spear in the Trolloc.
Perrin full on battle rages and smashes down Trollocs despite no training
Mat braves the fight alone and unarmed to save his sisters.
That's episode 1...  I could continue.

[EmreY]

2 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

- was the baby Rand saw the baby Min saw? Or is that still a future baby?

 

 

That was a categorical Seeing by Min; it still exists in the Pattern.

[JaimAybara]

I don’t have anything good to say about the finale, so what I will say instead is this; May you all find water and shade, sleep well and wake. 

[ArrylT]

4 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Lan in particular?

 

 

Speaking of Lan - in that DW Show (around 22m) Brandon also says that how the show portrays Lan is how he always read Lan.

[Kelin]

3 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Lan in particular?

Saves Moraine repeatedly during episode 1
Leaves the group alone repeatedly to keep trollocs away and comes back with only minor cuts and scrapes in episode 2.
Saved the group with Shadar Logoth no matter what Moraine said and got her out of there in episode 3.
Went alone into the Blight and arrived at the eye completely untouched in episode 8.

Men in general:
Tam as a 20 year old rusty unpracticed swordsman scores multiple significant hits on a creature that towers over him in speed and strength.
Rand keeps cool in hsi first ever fight and puts arrows and a spear in the Trolloc.
Perrin full on battle rages and smashes down Trollocs despite no training
Mat braves the fight alone and unarmed to save his sisters.
That's episode 1...  I could continue.

Yeah, and all this is pretty small fish compared to what the women do in the show. Anything really heroic, it's women who do it. 

 

Of course you have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine. And my opinion is that men are deliberately shown weaker than women in this show.

[DigificWriter]

8 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Rafe does not understand the source material.

Rafe does not appreciate the source material.

Rafe is not skilled enough to do the source material justice.

 

All of this is categorically false.

[TheTuna450]

Overall, a solid ending to the season, I think. Moiraine being stilled/tied-off shielded (the latter, I hope!) is a good hook for Season 2, all of the characters are in interesting places, and Ishamael was great.

 

While I'm enjoying the show quite a bit overall, I'd say that my main concern with the show right now is that I don't think that the show has fully established what it means that Rand is the Dragon. As some others have noted, he hasn't done very much that's immediately impressive to the show-only viewer, and the show hasn't gone into why the Dragon is supposed to be such a fearsome thing (which was partially undercut already by the choice to put Egwene and Nynaeve into the running).

 

This is something that S2 can pretty easily rectify, but it's important to emphasize why the Dragon is such a singular entity not just through characters talking about it, but having Rand do stuff that it's immediately obvious that no other character can do.

 

I can understand why having Rand obliterate the army at the Gap would be hard to do in the show because you don't want to introduce gateways this early to get him from the Eye to the Gap, and because you can't go into weird lore about the Eye the way it was in the books to explain why Rand is able to haul off and blow up an entire army with no training, but it would have gone a long way as a demonstration of the Dragon's raw power for show-only viewers. They'll need to do something like this in S2 to set him apart from the rest of the pack, even other very strong channelers like Nynaeve.

[flinn]

11 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

That's not what he said.

 

What he said is that he didn't have an opportunity to read the scripts for Episodes 7 and 8 because of the Covid shutdown and all of the turmoil that was going on behind-the-scenes at the time regarding Barney's departure.

 I just watched it. He said exactly what I said he said.

[DigificWriter]

2 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I just watched it. He said exactly what I said he said.

 

I rewatched his comments before posting what I posted, and he did not say the words "I was not allowed to consult on Episodes 7 and 8" at any point during his explanation of what his level of involvement with regards to those two particular episodes was.

Edited December 24, 2021 by DigificWriter

[jh557]

23 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Even 5 linked women shouldn't be able to take out 10000 trollocs.  Why not send them to the fortress and problem would have been solved.  Also Lan was pointless, he did nothing that episode.  Whoa he went to the Eye alone and accomplished nothing for the entire episode.

I don't understand the need for Amalisa. She never needed to be able to channel. She definitely did not need to be leading the circle. If you want Nynaeve and Egwene to have a moment then let them show off their power themselves instead of in a circle. Have Egwene push herself too far (foreshadowing). Nynaeve is helping her fight the trollocs and then using the last of her strength to heal Egwene as healing is Nynaeve's thing and not Egwene's. This makes way more sense to me than having Amalisa who was too weak to become Aes Sedai and 2 other women who presumably were also too weak to become Aes Sedai (or unable to handle the rigors of training to be Aes Sedai) being there at all. Like what Moiraine told Rand about channeling even without training need and fear would have pushed the girls to channel to protect themselves. Thus no need for the circle. 

 

And the blight was not shown to be that dangerous in the show. 1 dead body and a bunch of twisted trees that did not attack anybody. Was it creepy? Yes. But what danger from it did we see in the show?

[EmreY]

As an aside, how many seasons is this show supposed to go on for? 

[TheTuna450]

5 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I just watched it. He said exactly what I said he said.

I just watched it as well. He didn't say that he wasn't allowed to consult on episodes 7 and 8. He said that they weren't able to bring him in to consult until shooting had finished because Barney Harris's departure from the show was a huge crisis & they didn't have time for in-depth input while doing massive rewrites, which I think is understandable. He DID still consult on the episodes, just during editing.

Edited December 24, 2021 by TheTuna450

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, TheTuna450 said:

I just watched it as well. He didn't say that he wasn't allowed to consult on episodes 7 and 8. He said that they weren't able to bring him in to consult until shooting had finished because Barney Harris's departure from the show was a huge crisis & they didn't have time for in-depth input while doing massive rewrites, which I think is understandable.

 

Thank you for corroborating my rebuttal.

[Blackbyrd]

6 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Perhaps that scene was just (for now) a simple nod for the book readers to enjoy. For me it was perfect for what it was, save for one tiny little word that made my hand clench... (Reborn). 99.27% spot on.

I'm glad you enjoyed it that thoroughly. For instance the whole thing happens with one Lews' infant children in the room is pretty great symbolism that I loved but the direct dialogue like 'to think it all happened in a nursery' is one a few instances -another being the Dragon Reborn thing- that just made me generally feel the scene did not work that well

[WheelofJuke]

10 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I don’t have anything good to say about the finale, so what I will say instead is this; May you all find water and shade, sleep well and wake. 

I see you JaimAybara. 

 

Anyone who claimed that old age had brought them patience was either lying or senile.

 

May you always find shade and water.

[TheTuna450]

7 minutes ago, EmreY said:

As an aside, how many seasons is this show supposed to go on for? 

Rafe's ideal scenario appears to be 8 seasons. We'll see what they actually get, but if the show is a big success it's at least somewhat possible.

[Indil]

23 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Rafe does not understand the source material.

Rafe does not appreciate the source material.

Rafe is not skilled enough to do the source material justice.

#ReplaceRafe

All very true.

[Kelin]

14 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

I really wish the 'disappointed darkfriends' who are trashing this episode and the series in general would go watch tonight's episode of The Dusty Wheel so that they could hear Brandon Sanderson's incredibly insightful commentary, but I suspect they'd just end up going after him for not validating their complaints and outrage.

Frankly, I was a fan of the show before the finale, despite its faults. The last episode turned me to the Shadow. Why should I care that others liked the finale? I didn't and I can't make myself like it by force. And my opinion is no less valid than yours.

[Blackbyrd]

Just now, Dead Warder said:

Well, maybe I'm just happy that they even added that scene in, given that so much was removed in total. I'm probably just inflating my joy on this one part... which ironically is the only part of this episode I liked.

 

I'll shut my trap about it now and walk on. ✌️

Lol so basically you're my opposite in this ?

 

I also did think it was also pretty nicely trolly of them to do the 3000 years ago thing and then not do Prologue. Nicely done