tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[JimGalaxy]

It will be, a long while before we learn
How the Wheel, electronically, must now turn
Our hope, is that rulers in the Towers know -
If there's to *be* a season three, THEY MUST RE-LEARN 

[Ararana24]

Rafe has read the books right?…

1 minute ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

4) Lan is completely useless. Rand has done nothing but mope over Egwene. Perrin has done nothing & his lines are bad. Matt is MIA (good move by Barney). Sooo basically nobody cares or sees the significance of 4 of our main characters. This is the Nyn & Eggy show.

And those of us who voiced concern about this prior were chastised. Social politics wins again in Hollywood…

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Just now, Ararana24 said:

And those of us who voiced concern about this prior were chastised. Social politics wins again in Hollywood…

That we were. 

Rafe's brand of feminism (I'm feeling a hurl coming on) is ruining WoT. 

 

I'm married to a strong woman who is awesome. She can do anything. She's 100% better than me. And you know what's really awesome about strong women - they don't have to make Men suck to be awesome. 

 

There is no other explanation that can be given imo for taking Tarwin's Gap away from the Borderlanders and Rand & giving it to Amalise, Nyn, and Eggy. 

 

And then - having it look reeeally bad on top that. Like really bad CGI.

[ArrylT]

I was all set to give this episode the highest grade of the season.   But I personally think I will need to re-watch before I can consider doing that.   Either way, for most of the episode I was like damn this is an improvement in some ways on the ending of EOTW, even though this is an adaptation of the whole series rather than an adaptation book by book (but I all for another adaptation that is).  

 

I will say this - Episode 8 answered pretty much every concern I had with the Season and questions I had about the direction / worries about characters/story/how Season 2 would make sense.  My faith that the show is in good hands and will ensure that the masses will love The Wheel of Time is growing. 

 

Considering the task at hand, this was a great start.  No need to recap all the challenges they had to face.

 

So for Ep8  Pacing was great.    Editing was so much better.   CGI was a little wonky for me but on the whole not a bother.  Acting was again - phenomenal.   Loved how Ishamael put on his mask and totally believes he is the Dark One.  

 

Now for some more specific thoughts

 

1 - Nynaeve admits she did not track Lan.

 

All season people were bothered by the fact that Lan was tracked by Nynaeve.  Except well she did not.  So the one minor issue bothering me about Lan is gone.   Since in the books she tracked Egwene.  This time she tracked Moiraine.  How?   WAFO I suppose.   Everything I needed to WAFO about got answered so far, so I can do it all over again.  Sure more questions have been posed, but that is exactly what the books did for me as well.   Just another way the show is perfectly paralleling the books.  Answering questions, and posing more.   I am happy with the answers provided.

 

Lan Mandragoran, your honor, which should never have been in doubt, has been redeemed and the show has kept you (imho) as amazing as I came to realize you are from the books.  So yeah I love that reveal.

 

2 - Horn of Valere

 

I think one of my fears was no Horn of Valere.   But Yes! And even better, they put it in a more logical spot than it was originally.    I mean the Horn of Valere in a magical forest that constantly roved the Blight?   And, hopefully, it is not like the whole world knew it was in Fal Dara (imo) just a select few of the House of Jagad.   My guess is that if Moiraine had known the Horn was there she'd have demanded it.  

 

3 -  Padan Fain 

 

Yes!  Way to take a good character and make him even more dangerous and worthy as an opponent.  I think I would have preferred some Darkfriends rather than 2 Fades, but since the DO wants all the ta'veren alive, I have no qualms.   Pretty sure a Fade snuck in Book 2 thanks to Ingtar.  Maybe Ingtar (who shows up in S2) gave PF the password - and that was where he was headed when Perrin saw him in Ep7.   

 

Since we should be seeing a lot of Padan Fain (and he changed names and personalities throughout the books) this might be a better way to keep him as a villain throughout the series.  

 

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Padan_Fain

 

4 - The Seanchan

 

I was wondering if we were going to get an appearance and how we would make them dangerous but not oversold.  So Yes!   I was hoping to see Falme attacked, but I knew that was a long shot.   Could have been done better - but definitely gives that sense of (for me) looming danger.  Gosh I hope we get the battle on Toman Head as either a mid-season fight or S2 finale.  

 

5 - Prologue

 

I had a hunch they were going to show a different part of the past.   It was kewl to see a portrayal of the Fateful Concord. Personally I did not find LTT arrogant at all.   I thought him the perfect combination of confident in his decision & knowing he was stuck between a rock and the hard spot.   I agree that I would have liked to see a little desperation - however remember that the world was never completely over run by the Forsaken and that the Aes Sedai always held around 40-60% of the land.  And Paaran Disen was never conquered by the Shadow, and in fact LTT had already defeated Ishamael at the Gates earlier in the War.   So it would make no sense to show that city being under attack or about to be destroyed, assuming that was the city shown.  And since that was the Capital it makes sense to me it was.  Plus your leaders are not supposed to be running around like a chicken with its head cut off.  Perhaps a little more showing he was aware of the risks, but they used Latra Posae Decume to do that.

 

Atm LTT looks more capable and successful, and willing to do what he felt best to protect his families future - oh I have a hunch we're going to see more of the past and his "reward".    Reminds me of the concept behind Sheathing the Sword.  So I feel LTT decided that he rather risk Sheathing the Sword, without the help of the female Aes Sedai, than do nothing, or take the risk of attacking territory controlled by the Shadow to regain the sa'angreal needed for her plan. 

 

7 - Rand & Moiraine going it alone

 

Honestly apart from Egwene being the cause of Rand channeling at the Eye, was there ever a real need for the rest of them there?   Did anything Egwene, Perrin, Mat & Loial do that would have made a difference?  Having just finished a few days ago - I honestly do not think so.   They were, imho, closer to glorified extras at the end of Book 1, and in the show they all got purpose.

 

So I am ok with that.  Since I knew the show was more of an ensemble from the get go it makes good sense to give them each a cliffhanger - and I do not feel it makes Rand weak.   However yes a more visual display of his victory would have been nice - but at the same time I think it would have been counter-productive, since we already know, and everyone else does too, that it is not the Last Battle.   An epic display of power by Rand simply creates that movie dilemna that the next display has to be even bigger & better. Eventually it just becomes simply too much of a weight for the show to carry.   And now the show has shown the power when combined by people in a circle can be epic - which is good for later in the series.

 

I do not think they nailed the landing perfectly on first viewing.   This is more like, to me, when a gymnast attempts a very complex manoeuvre and stumbles slightly on the end, so does not get perfect marks - but enough to win the event.      

 

About the differences to me re: following the same plot steps, this is very similar to me to Frodo about to arrive at Rivendell.   No need to rehash the part about Arwen at the ford vs. Glorfindel.  And if we expect 8 seasons, then that is basically where we would be in the LOTR film trilogy, about 1/3rd to 1/2 through the first of the 3 movies.   Either way Frodo got to Rivendell and Rand defeated who he thought was the Dark One.    

 

I've made peace with the fact that we're seeing a different turning.   I hope that the show will continue to improve.    Very curious to see how S2 opening will begin.    Since it will very likely involve the chase for the H of V,  I am pretty confident that Rand will be involved, and the ending was just the shows way of showcasing Rand at the beginning of TGH - when he kept making excuses to leave.   Rand thinks he wants to leave everyone behind, just like he did there - but I suspect that being ta'veren means the pattern will force him, just like he was forced in the books.

 

The speculations & discussion and longing during the hiatus is going to epic and really help build anticipation for those still going forward.   Not everyone can make it to the Last Battle.   No shame in knowing ones limitations and stepping aside to focus on other enjoyments.   Tai'shar to all who watched all of Season 1.

Edited December 24, 2021 by ArrylT
extra thought

[Mirefox]

2 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Does anyone know yet why Latra called Lews the Dragon Reborn?

 

It's my only question I have, and an honest one at that.

 Because it is complete amateur hour over at Amazon.  They couldn’t be bothered to get small details like that right.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 minute ago, Dead Warder said:

Does anyone know yet why Latra referred Lews as the Dragon Reborn?

 

Well. From what I understand - in part this Episode 8 script was a Trainwreck because Brandon Sanderson usually consults on the scripts but couldn't on this one because of Covid. 

Maybe it was the same with Sarah.

 

Or maybe (I don't know! I can't fathom someone who actually loves WoT reading this script & giving a thumbs up that it's remotely close to WoT books)

 

So writer A) who's never read the books wrote this and screwed up? 

 

Rafe has lost control/all credibility.

 

 

 

[flinn]

People were upset that Nynaeve snuck up and put a knife to his throat. Not that she tracked him. How hard could it be to track them? They had an entire trolloc fist chasing them. Follow the carnage left behind by the trollocs and you are 9/10ths of the way there.

[flinn]

1 minute ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Well. From what I understand - in part this Episode 8 script was a Trainwreck because Brandon Sanderson usually consults on the scripts but couldn't on this one because of Covid. 

Maybe it was the same with Sarah.

 

Or maybe (I don't know! I can't fathom someone who actually loves WoT reading this script & giving a thumbs up that it's remotely close to WoT books)

 

So writer A) who's never read the books wrote this and screwed up? 

 

Rafe has lost control/all credibility.

 

 

 

 Sanderson just said on the DW that he wasnt allowed to consult on ep 8 because there were so many changes.

[Blackbyrd]

2 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Does anyone know yet why Latra referred Lews as the Dragon Reborn?

 

It's my only question I have, and an honest one at that.

Technically I guess Lews Therin is always the Dragon Reborn, but it was just one many details that helped drag down an otherwise intruiging scene/scenario not seen in the books

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

2 minutes ago, Blackbyrd said:

Technically I guess Lews Therin is always the Dragon Reborn, but it was just one many details that helped drag down an otherwise intruiging scene/scenario not seen in the books

 

As people have pointed out though - they've gotten "the spirit" of LTT wrong - and recast the whole scenario in a totally different light.

 

[KakitaOCU]

23 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

1) Borderlander men get massacred and totally suck in Tarwin's Gap - 5 untrained women OP wielders do the hokey pokey and waste the bad CGI monsters. Then burn-out. Buuut don't worry - Nyn while linked can still shield Eggy and Eggy can heart heal Nyn.

 

2) Matt is inherently evil and will turn to the Shadow - but Perrin will save the day by not going evil and sticking to the Way of the Leaf. 

 

3) Moiraine is stilled? No, just shielded...wait - we didn't explain that to those who didn't read the books and the people who did read the books - half of them have given up on the show. 

 

4) Lan is completely useless. Rand has done nothing but mope over Egwene. Perrin has done nothing & his lines are bad. Matt is MIA (good move by Barney). Sooo basically nobody cares or sees the significance of 4 of our main characters. This is the Nyn & Eggy show.

1: Like they did in the book until Rand saved them instead?  Yes, 5 linked women laid waste to an army, kind of like Rand does by himself in various points in the books.  Admit I'm not sure on the Nyn Egwene death thing, but that's hardly an argument to level the total value of the show on.

2: Not sure what point you're making here...

3: We absolutely explained shielding in episode 4.  We didn't explain tying off weaves yet but that's not an issue that makes a failure, it makes a "Wait, how did the villain do that?!" moment

4: Lan went into the Blight alone without any assistance and got to the Eye untouched.  Nothing useless there.  Rand had the same type of metaphysical battle he does in the end of aMoL.  Perrin is your opinion, Matt can't be blamed on the show runners.  And again someone jumps into this misandry nonsense.  Women being powerful does not make men weak.

 

[Sabio]

This episode to me sums up the series, it just basicly left me feeling blahh.  It starts out good and gives you hope then just crashes and leaves you disappointed.  I liked Fain, but the five women killing the entire army was just this is totally insane what were they thinking moment.  LTT wasn't the dragon reborn, he was the dragon.  How does that mistake happen?  

 

Lan has spent 20 years with Moiraine, covering their tracks and such when needed.  Lan never noticed in 20 years Moiraine had a tell that could be tracked?

 

Does Rand think the DO is dead?  Moiraine can't channel?  Tarwain's Gap was a huge disappointment.  The way I feel at the moment I really couldn't care less if a season 2 was made.  I know it is, but I honestly feel I wasted my time by watching this episode.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Sabio

[WheelofJuke]

I'm no Great General, but shouldn't there have been an orderly retreat from the Gap once it can no longer be held? Where are their cavalry? Aren't they supposed to have some of the best heavy cavalry in the world?

 

Even with the ropes cut you'd still want to fall back to the fortress....that's why...it's a fortress...:|

 

[Sabio]

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

1: Like they did in the book until Rand saved them instead?  Yes, 5 linked women laid waste to an army, kind of like Rand does by himself in various points in the books.  Admit I'm not sure on the Nyn Egwene death thing, but that's hardly an argument to level the total value of the show on.

2: Not sure what point you're making here...

3: We absolutely explained shielding in episode 4.  We didn't explain tying off weaves yet but that's not an issue that makes a failure, it makes a "Wait, how did the villain do that?!" moment

4: Lan went into the Blight alone without any assistance and got to the Eye untouched.  Nothing useless there.  Rand had the same type of metaphysical battle he does in the end of aMoL.  Perrin is your opinion, Matt can't be blamed on the show runners.  And again someone jumps into this misandry nonsense.  Women being powerful does not make men weak.

 

Even 5 linked women shouldn't be able to take out 10000 trollocs.  Why not send them to the fortress and problem would have been solved.  Also Lan was pointless, he did nothing that episode.  Whoa he went to the Eye alone and accomplished nothing for the entire episode.

[WY_Cowboy]

Wow, lots of changes to digest.

-what’s with the whole shielding or stilling Moiraine?  Don’t get that.

- why didn’t everyone go into the blight?  
- is Loial dead or wounded? I think we was wounded in the book during the raid on Fal Dara.

- what is a “tell” in tracking? I think the writers don’t know about tracking.

- the five channelers, that was weird

 

With all that said, I have to give a thumbs up and a well done to the production.  Nice job, people!

[Kelin]

4 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

And again someone jumps into this misandry nonsense.  Women being powerful does not make men weak.

 

 

No, but they ARE shown as weak in the show. It's always the women who save the day. The men don't really do anything heroic. 

 

I'm a woman, and it actually bothers me.

[Chivalry]

1 minute ago, WheelofJuke said:

I'm no Great General, but shouldn't there have been an orderly retreat from the Gap once it can no longer be held? Where are their cavalry? Aren't they supposed to have some of the best heavy cavalry in the world?

 

Even with the ropes cut you'd still want to fall back to the fortress....that's why...it's a fortress...:|

 

 

There's a huge problem here. Agelmar's army was supposed to survive to fight another day. It's gone now. Are there no more Trollocs in the blight? Won't they press their advantage now? Who defends Fal Dara? Do we just ignore this gap in logic and pretend the Borderlands don't matter til the very end?

[Kelin]

2 minutes ago, WY_Cowboy said:

 

- why didn’t everyone go into the blight?  

That one's easy. Nyn and Egwene couldn't have killed the Trolloc army if they'd gone into the Blight.

[TheDreadReader]

5 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Even 5 linked women shouldn't be able to take out 10000 trollocs.  Why not send them to the fortress and problem would have been solved.  Also Lan was pointless, he did nothing that episode.  Whoa he went to the Eye alone and accomplished nothing for the entire episode.

 

Yet, just a few episodes ago a story was told about a woman who did the same basic thing while ending up just as burned out.

 

I found Tarwin's Gap to be meh overall and I was looking forward to it but they laid the foundation for the channeling of linked women in the story of manetheren.  

 

 

[Sabio]

4 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

 

There's a huge problem here. Agelmar's army was supposed to survive to fight another day. It's gone now. Are there no more Trollocs in the blight? Won't they press their advantage now? Who defends Fal Dara? Do we just ignore this gap in logic and pretend the Borderlands don't matter til the very end?

You don't need an army when you have 5 linked women.  Keep 5 women who can channel at Fal Dara at all times and there will be nothing to fear.

[KakitaOCU]

5 minutes ago, Kelin said:

 

No, but they ARE shown as weak in the show. It's always the women who save the day. The men don't really do anything heroic. 

 

I'm a woman, and it actually bothers me.

They're not.  Sorry.  Every complaint I've seen about "weak men" has been nonsense.  Having someone else do something doesn't make the original character weak.  Having someone not do something doesn't make them weak.

Lan was a consumate badass through the entire series, just not an emotionless rock.  He repeatedly does amazing things but because it doesn't come with some big flashy move.

I mean seriously, other than Abell Cauthon can we have an example of this supposed weakness?  Because as a man, I don't feel the male characters are weak, I don't feel like the female characters are dominating any more than I'd expect out of the world.

[Sabio]

Ummm also confused on why they dug up the horn, they said it was for the dragon but did they even know who the dragon was and how were they planning to get the horn to the dragon?  Seemed like they dug it up and sort of hoped the Dragon would show up some time to claim it.

[Blackbyrd]

27 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

As people have pointed out though - they've gotten "the spirit" of LTT wrong - and recast the whole scenario in a totally different light.

 

lt hits on some points that are made later in the books but I think it just speaks to the lack of dramatic tension in the scene that makes it seem worse. Another point of solid criticism would be that there isn't much groundwork for the viewer to understand the stakes or even the state of mind of the two participants

 

23 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

I thought that scene was great - I was really surprised that they actually created a visual of Latra and Lews together, discussing what to do about sealing the Bore. Pretty cool actually.

 

I've always remembered/read that Telamon was The Dragon and al'Thor was the Dragon Reborn.

Right, I loved the idea of the scene but for me it was too direct without any type of edge regarding an action that did end up breaking the world. Add in some small irks like 'Dragon Reborn' rather than Dragon or Lord of the Morning etc and i don't think it worked that well. I mean technically Lews Therin is always the Dragon and is always reborn so yes it's technically true but having it in the conversation is an eye roll

Edited December 24, 2021 by Blackbyrd

[Chivalry]

Just now, Sabio said:

Ummm also confused on why they dug up the horn, they said it was for the dragon but did they even know who the dragon was and how were they planning to get the horn to the dragon?  Seemed like they dug it up and sort of hoped the Dragon would show up some time to claim it.

 

I assumed they were digging it up to evacuate it from Fal Dara, which they expected to fall. This scene made sense to me.

[EmreY]

I'm a bit disappointed.  One or two changes I think are an improvement, a few I'm happy with, various others I can live with, but the whole thing feels a little bit of a letdown & slightly contrived.  (But at least now I understand the feelings of non-LoTR readers at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring. ?) 

 

Rather than the ending of the first series, it felt as if it were putting things into place for the second, with which I'm fine, but, still, you know, I'd have liked a little bit more here and now.

 

I guess we won't be seeing much of Rand for most of the second series?