tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[TheMountain]

1 minute ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

They did very little in this episode.  Egwene's channeling was barely a trickle.  And, Nyneave is still presumably blocked.

 

 

Ah yes, because powering nukes, independently channeling while linked and bringing the dead back to life are very little things...

[Scarloc99]

13 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

The good thing for me I think is i now get to feel all the surprise and wonder I got during reading  the books. Not knowing what comes next. 

 

I am always gonna take the positive path. Keeps me sane ?

I think this is a sensible approach. Venting and getting angry just makes you feel bad all day long, and it's christmas eve ?. I will admit I had hoped for a better end, I hoped rafe was heading towards something, now, I am going to stop trying to predict anything about the show based off the books. My predictions will be made with the assumption there is no book to base them on and simply taken from the things I know from the series itself. 

[Mirefox]

3 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Didn't get it "yet"

 

It doesn't take too much thought to come up with ways they can still give him those moments in the future especially when you have 3 endings to books that are all similar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You kind of lose me here.  The "spectacular visual fashion" ends with the death of 60% of the women involved.  (80% if you add in whatever happened with Nyn).   As well as the majority of male warriors.  At best it is a pyrrchic victory.

 

If anything the show decided to go with ending season 1 on a loss or at best a draw.  From a story structure standpoint that make a lot of sense because it gives the mains room to grow for the next 2 or 3 seasons.   And, Rand thinks he defeated the dark one at the beginning of book 2 anyway .... so that isn't a change.

 

Pretty sure from the context, most of the big stuff that drive the action of books 2 and 3 are still in place for the coming seasons.

 

 

 

 

 

You’re right that he didn’t get it “yet” but this was the season finale!  I’m sure it is coming but structurally, the season needed to hit the right points for the SEASON climax and this as a massively missed story point in terms of a season arc.

[Finfolfin]

29 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

So one of the things that didn’t work for me was the reveal of the Horn. I don’t mind that they changed the hiding place. It’s a logical consequence of changing the nature of the Eye. But I don’t like that it’s just sitting there under Agelmar’s throne and everyone seems to know about it. In three thousand years, they never had a “oh no, we’re all going to die” moment? What about when Malkier fell? No one thought they should use it then? It would have been better if it had been hidden in the keep, but no one knew about it and some combination of the EF5 discovered it while wandering around. Or maybe Loial happens to know it’s there and asks someone why they aren’t pulling it out? ??‍♀️

And to non book readers...what is the horn of valere? there was some exposition, but just like everything in this show it falls flat. Such a massive reveal (for us book fans) but for my wife, it was like.... what?

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Mirefox said:

What was the point in showing Valda and Perrin Goldeneyes in the recap?  Because of that I was expecting to see Perrin hulking out or something, but instead, the only emotion he showed was a bit of anger about the futility of the Way of the Leaf (and I don’t think the Tinkers were shown in the recap, but I’m not 100% on that).

 

Honestly I think they're just trying to find some kind of scraps to give him to buy time until Elyas shows up and Perrin's development really gets under way.

 

6 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Agreed.

 

I still think you deserve kudos for starting to get things settled down.

 

As a show-only fan, I'm intrigued by what they've set up and the pretty massive character and plot implications thereof, and can't wait to see what ramifications we get from the episode's two biggest Pattern-Level Events (credit Matt Hatch): Egwene reviving Nynaeve and the One Power being just out of Moiraine's reach.

 

I don't think Nyneave actually did die. She doesn't look quite like in the same shape as the other 3, just on the brink of death. I hope so at least, because allowing channellers to cure death seems pretty insane to me.

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

The point is this...it's on the same level as Cowboy Bebop and the witcher is mogging it. The first week of witcher is mogging any week of wot

I mean if you want a readership base angry at changes to a book, the Witcher has ridden all over the book ideas. I don't want to spoil but one relationship in the books which is maternal is turned completely on its head. what they have done would be equivalent to Morraine turning out to be the leader of the black ajah in the TV series. 

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

And to non book readers...what is the horn of valere? there was some exposition, but just like everything in this show it falls flat. Such a massive reveal (for us book fans) but for my wife, it was like.... what?

 

Agreed some mention of it, in some manner really would have been nice, no matter how small.

[Sabio]

26 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Yeah...everything was cool until that meddling man in his arrogance went and screwed things up.  The world wasn't in a crisis and desperate or anything.

 

If they aren't intending this message...they need to remember Speech 101 from college.  The most important message isn't the one intended it's the one receive.  This is the message a lot of people (even female viewers) are receiving.

Sadly the viewer needs to watch the Origin to get more info on the war of power, and why LTT did his plan.  They kept too much out. There was no sense in the episode how desperate things were or anything.  The arrogance was fine, even from the books it sounded like LTT was a pretty arrogant person.  But the show failed in attempting to explain why he felt this plan had to be done.  The worst thing was the had no idea of DO's counterstroke in the books, but in the series it was known it would happen?  I mean seriously if she knew that would happen why didn't she try harder to stop him.  Well you will taint the male half and cause men to destroy the world, good luck.  We will try to fix everything when you're done.  The scene lacked urgency and desperation.

[Wassup]

I understand some people thinking the circle of women channeling was too much.  However, Moiraine did some similar channeling on her own when they were being corralled to Shadar Logoth in the book. She took out hundreds of trollocs with rolling waves of earth. She was using an angreal, but the power levels may be comparable or Ny and Eg could be more. I am not certain about that. 

[DigificWriter]

 

5 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I think this is a sensible approach. Venting and getting angry just makes you feel bad all day long, and it's christmas eve ?. I will admit I had hoped for a better end, I hoped rafe was heading towards something, now, I am going to stop trying to predict anything about the show based off the books. My predictions will be made with the assumption there is no book to base them on and simply taken from the things I know from the series itself. 

 

Rafe and his team are relying on the novels; they're just not depicting the minute story details of each novel individually or consecutively.

Edited December 24, 2021 by DigificWriter

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

Sadly the viewer needs to watch the Origin to get more info on the war of power, and why LTT did his plan.  They kept too much out. There was no sense in the episode how desperate things were or anything.  The arrogance was fine, even from the books it sounded like LTT was a pretty arrogant person.  But the show failed in attempting to explain why he felt this plan had to be done.  The worst thing was the had no idea of DO's counterstroke in the books, but in the series it was known it would happen?  I mean seriously if she knew that would happen why didn't she try harder to stop him.  Well you will taint the male half and cause men to destroy the world, good luck.  We will try to fix everything when you're done.  The scene lacked urgency and desperation.

 

Yeah I'm fine with LTT having a bit of arrogance to him, that's probably fair. But even he acknowledged that his plan was super risky and that most if not eveyone involved could very well just die. This scene kinda made him look young and gun ho. 

[JenniferL]

So something I liked was Fain. He seemed really menacing and dangerous. 

[Hudson]

2 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Sadly the viewer needs to watch the Origin to get more info on the war of power

As a viewer said on another board...if you need additional materials to explain your show...your show is broken.  

 

Also, side note everyone saying it's not Rafe's fault...he wanted more episodes.  If Jackson could do 3 books of LOTR in 10-12 hours.  Rafe should be able to do 1 book in 8.  I understand it's not apples to apples and people were made about changes to LOTR.  But I don't think anyone can suggest LOTR was not done well.  Not saying I could do it...far from it...but we need someone who could.  Sadly at this point I don't see anything that suggests Rafe can.  Nothing against the guy.

[TheDreadReader]

18 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

It didn’t look they were including the War of Power. So that means no Lanfear accidentally releasing the Dark One either. 

 

I saw comments like this on twitter too.   Mostly, they centered around how peaceful the AoL city seemed.  But, even in Rand's wayback machine visions, life seemed to continue on as normal for a lot of people in the visions.

 

Personally, I think that we may see a lot more AoL stuff in season two.  I don't have a lot to base it on but it might make sense to make LTT a character that does more then just yell and scream in Rand's head.  So, maybe they do a whole AoL story arc for him. 

 

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I understand some people thinking the circle of women channeling was too much.  However, Moiraine did some similar channeling on her own when they were being corralled to Shadar Logoth in the book. She took out hundreds of trollocs with rolling waves of earth. She was using an angreal, but the power levels may be comparable or Ny and Eg could be more. I am not certain about that. 

 

There were apparently 5 to 10 thousand trollocs there... Even assuming the Shienarans took out plenty, that's a bit much. That said I wouldn't mind, I'm just worried about the impossible standard they might be setting for the future. But hey if they can handle it and go nuclear when it comes to the One Power battles, then cool.

[ArrylT]

32 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

So there’s many individual moments from this episode that I enjoyed. But it never felt like it came together cohesively and most of the not Rand stuff just didn’t land for me. 

 

Yes that is sort of what I feel after my first viewing and why I could not give it a 10/10.   I think there were a lot of great ingredients, and the recipe for the Eye had the potential to be even better than the original recipe (Brandon mentioned this in the DW chat), but it was not cooked to perfection.

 

I still found it tasty & filling, but lacking a little something.   And I think that is the cohesion.   And I think part of that comes from the unexpected loss of Mat.   

 

creation time on my part:

 

Assume Mat is in Fal Dara, he could have been the one to help Uno and the others - especially since he's the one with the thing for treasure and the natural tie in for the Horn of Valere.

 

Then we can still do Perrins discussion with Loial but instead he decides to follow Amalisa and Nynaeve/Egwene.  Sure he's still standing around for a while, but not like he wasnt doing that anyways.

 

But when it comes down to watching Nynaeve/Egwene burnout/die - maybe he hits Amalisa with a hammer or a rock.  Not in time to save her (unless we want her saved) but in time to keep it from looking like Nynaeve died when it was near-death (could have been better shown since not everyone understood)

 

And since we had the Perrin/Rand/Egwene argument from Ep7 this would pay off in the future after Rand learns that Perrin saved Egwene and feels jealousy.

 

So benefits

 

1 - Mat tied better to Horn

 

2 - Perrin does something which pleases fans 

 

I still liked his arc, and thought this was expressed well by Mat Hatch that Perrin has now learned the consequence of inaction after the consequence of unthinking action.

 

3 - Egwene does not appear to bring Nynaeve back from death

 

But honestly this has been discussed a lot on the book side - that Egwene some how find a way to succeed at anything she tries - so why not some healing.

 

4 - Rand / Perrin misunderstanding arc can continue

 

Unfortunately none of this came to pass.   Maybe it would have been better to recast Mat immediately but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

I also concur with those that feel that a couple of minutes of Lan fighting in the Blight would have been great.   I do not think this episode takes anything away from Lan - in fact his choosing Duty over Love was done amazingly well for me - but always going to be happy with extra scenes of Lan doing badass action stuff rather than badass person stuff.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I saw comments like this on twitter too.   Mostly, they centered around how peaceful the AoL city seemed.  But, even in Rand's wayback machine visions, life seemed to continue on as normal for a lot of people in the visions.

 

Personally, I think that we may see a lot more AoL stuff in season two.  I don't have a lot to base it on but it might make sense to make LTT a character that does more then just yell and scream in Rand's head.  So, maybe they do a whole AoL story arc for him. 

 

 

I don't mind the peaceful city at all. It's the way LTT and LPD are acting that annoys me.

[TheDreadReader]

12 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

And to non book readers...what is the horn of valere? there was some exposition, but just like everything in this show it falls flat. Such a massive reveal (for us book fans) but for my wife, it was like.... what?

 

Perhaps, that is the reaction they were going for.   There's the whole time between seasons for the people to wonder about that.

 

 

[Arthellion]

4 hours ago, Ralph said:

Late to the party as usual - 

 

A question

 

Sorry I can't keep track of all our esteemed contributors and who holds what

 

How many people who liked the show until now, and were OK with the changes (not just tolerating and waiting until they stop, but trying to understand why) , were now put off and felt it is no good? 

 

Poll material? 

 

Basically me.

[TheDreadReader]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I don't mind the peaceful city at all. It's the way LTT and LPD are acting that annoys me.

 

I didn't quite like it either.   There was no sense of desperation or even need.  It was a cordial chat.

 

 

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

The showrunners were lucky that they had some good looking footage and a lot of good will leading to the early greenlighting of season 2.  If Amazon waited until that finale, and the fan reaction from it, they would have had to strongly consider cancelling the show.  

[Finfolfin]

14 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean if you want a readership base angry at changes to a book, the Witcher has ridden all over the book ideas. I don't want to spoil but one relationship in the books which is maternal is turned completely on its head. what they have done would be equivalent to Morraine turning out to be the leader of the black ajah in the TV series. 

But even with the changes its better than the wheel of time. The production seems better, the acting. The world seems larger.

[Finfolfin]

10 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

So something I liked was Fain. He seemed really menacing and dangerous. 

Genuinely great casting choice. Wish he would have got more screen time this season. We really needed Baerlon .

[TheDreadReader]

24 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

It could somewhat work for me if only the Lord of Fal Dara knows of it, and it is strictly believe that only the DR can use it. Which seems to be what Uno said (or maybe it was the other guy not sure). Still a bit meh.

 

I definitely think that this was going to be Mat's scene in the finale but given his absence they had to cut and move things around a bit.

 

I am really curious how they are going to fit Mat, Fain, and the dagger back in.  We obviously saw Mat going back to Tar Valon so we at least know where he is supposed to be.  But, where do they move him next?

 

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I definitely think that this was going to be Mat's scene in the finale but given his absence they had to cut and move things around a bit.

 

I am really curious how they are going to fit Mat, Fain, and the dagger back in.  We obviously saw Mat going back to Tar Valon so we at least know where he is supposed to be.  But, where do they move him next?

 

 

Well, one obvious way for him to end up in Falme (if that is where the horn will sounded) is for him to follow the girls through the Ways. Otherwise give some reason for him and Thom to travel to Cairhien to meet up with whoever is hunting for the horn? I'm not convinced Mat is gonna have anything else to do with the dagger. I'm guessing he should have been stabbed rather than Loial.