tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[Guire]

So I have watched Ep 6 three times now.  I think I am tapping out.  I will probably binge watch first 2 seasons at some point just to see what happens.  I set my expectations too high.  I really like actors and even some scenes in ep 6 were amazing.  I have lots of criticism of arc choices, editing, pacing, visual elements, and the interjection of worldview that I think detracted from coherence of the story.  I won't go into that because I know most posters here are really enjoying show.  Covid definitely hurt the making of season one. 

 

If the show executives were going to tell the story that seems to be unfolding on screen, they should have made season 1 be a retelling of New Spring.  Being able to focus on a young Siuan, Moraine, and Lan in flashback while doing world building through Lan and Moraines 20 year search would have been a better intro for EF5.  2nd season could then have been a better characterization of EF5 leading up to Eye of the World.  Lots of middle series plots could have been cut to still allow 8 seasons culminating in a smaller yet still amazing Last Battle.

 

Hope the show still delivers for people enjoying it.

 

Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared...

[DaddyFinn]

8 hours ago, Indil said:

 

 

Another random thing I'm thinking is Rafe's comment that people don't really trust the prophecies since they are so old. But then would anyone believe Rand is the true DR even after he pulled out callandor or start fulfilling other prophecies?

It's not like the whole world suddenly accepted Rand as the DR after he completed the first prophecies in the books.

 

This is not for you specifically, but some people should really take the mentality of WAFO and not walk blindly to every trap the show creates for viewers. Unreliable narrator is present through the whole book series.

Edited December 10, 2021 by DaddyFinn

[Maximillion]

14 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

It's not like the whole world suddenly accepted Rand as the DR after he completed the first prophecies in the books.

 

This is not for you specifically, but some people should really take the mentality of WAFO and not walk blindly to every trap the show creates for viewers. Unreliable narrator is present through the whole book series.

 

The problem now is that if the DR is Rand (which was a certainty at one point we thought, but I don't think that is true now), then it is going to be rather anti-climatic.  Rand is a bit part character on the show, completely underdeveloped and little more than an extra.

We're approaching the eye of the world - I dread to think what they are going to do with that.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Maximillion

[dwn]

Overall I liked most of the episode. Some thoughts:

 

As a couple people have mentioned, I took Siuan's dream as a sign of Ishy meddling with things. It more-or-less tracks with how the Eye is introduced in the books.

 

Too bad about Barney Harris; he did a pretty good job as Mat. I imagine the prescript against Mat touching the dagger again is a re-shoot to tie into where his arc picks up later.

 

Loved the fake-out with Logain trying to get them to execute him. I do think Siuan should have been more compassionate here.

 

The Aes Sedai interplay was probably the highlight of the episode; lots of parallels with the books, too. I'm sad that Leane didn't get to coo over Perrin, though.

 

I suspect Moiraine might be mistaken about Liandrin's male "friend".

 

I suspect Egwene is overly optimistic about Eamon Valda's demise.

 

Cool use of the gateway-ish ter'angreal and the Oath Rod. It's probably good to lay the groundwork for such concepts early.

 

Interesting change to the Waygate. I wonder if they plan to merge the Ways and portal stones to keep things simpler. And that's one way to reduce your horse budget.

 

Egwene and Nynaeve''s interaction with Siuan were very much in line with TGH. It also makes sense that we see young Siuan to show how she might relate to them.

 

I didn't really like the pacing of a couple scenes. Moiraine's exile in particular felt a bit too slow and melodramatic.

[Mailman]

Horrible garbage

 

Show jumps strangely from point to point explaining nothing of what is going on. 

 

Moiraine has access to some travelling or portal that is not explained

 

Moiraine and Siuan are now lovers.

 

Siuan apparently uses that gondola type pole to travel from Tear to the white tower as a child. Would it not make sense for her father to at least travel with her even if he could not stay.

 

And the worst moment of the series by far instead of telling Siuan that she had found the Dragon Reborn the thing the 2 of them had worked towards for 20 years the thing that means the salvation or ruination of the world they have sex first.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Mailman

[qlorin]

Okay this will maybe contrevarsial a bit.

Worst episode so far.

LOIAL. I thouht Thom's character treated badly. How about Loial? Is he a character? What is his character attributes?

Why all the aes sedai are idiots? These are average 60-100  years old highly educated woman. They are not farmgirls unsure in their everystep. Tower politics looks like highschool drama. Liandarin reveals Nynave like complanning to a teacher. Moraine threatens Liandarin with secret boyfriend. WOW.

Diverting expectations for dragon reborn. The producers doesnt understand the books. This is not a mystery book. If you are a good reader you know Rand is DR. I am not talking about forshadowing. We generaly fallow Rand for the whole book. This is not a big secret. Book is not about the secret. There are 13 books after reveal. First book developes our characters. In this point Rand is sooooooooo underdeveloped rigth now even a "Rand hater" like me is discusted.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by qlorin

[RextheDog]

too much fiffing and faffing about.

 

time for Rand to take centre stage.

[fra85uk]

5 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

too much fiffing and faffing about.

 

time for Rand to take centre stage.

 

Don't count on that. I am starting to get convinced that they are really going for the "compromise" of power rangers Dragon. In this way, they can say "look, book-fans, Rand is still  the DR (for a given value of DR), great adaptation, right?" while completely continuing to ignore him.

[RextheDog]

7 minutes ago, Mailman said:

 

 

Siuan apparently uses that gondola type pole to travel from Tear to the white tower as a child. Would it not make sense for her father to at least travel with her even if he could not stay.

 

 they have sex first.

1. agree, youre a father of a little girl,  a fisherman with no boat and no house and no friends, youre daughter needs to travel somewhere for not only her health but to make her great....why does he not go with her

 

2. wellllll....... lets not be too judgy judgy.....work life balance and all that....

[fra85uk]

3 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

1. agree, youre a father of a little girl,  a fisherman with no boat and no house and no friends, youre daughter needs to travel somewhere for not only her health but to make her great....why does he not go with her

 

Because essentially all fathers need to be awful in Rafe of Time.

Mat father--> womenizer

Steppin father---> Beated his son

Father of Alanna's warder---> tried to kill his son

etc. etc.

[Maximillion]

13 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

 

Don't count on that. I am starting to get convinced that they are really going for the "compromise" of power rangers Dragon. In this way, they can say "look, book-fans, Rand is still  the DR (for a given value of DR), great adaptation, right?" while completely continuing to ignore him.

 

Power Rangers - that is a good analogy and something that would seem to fit nicely with Rafe Judkins background and very limited talent. A bit like Agents of Shield garbage. 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Maximillion

[RextheDog]

Just now, fra85uk said:

 

Don't count on that. I am starting to get convinced that they are really going for the "compromise" of power rangers Dragon. In this way, they can say "look, book-fans, Rand is still  the DR (for a given value of DR), great adaptation, right?" while completely continuing to ignore him.

 

im trying to enjoy the show..........i loved episode 1 even though its most peoples weakest....if they compromise Rand/DR its gonna be hard for me to stay onboard.....

 

last two episodes have frustrated me a bit....couple of nuggets her and there, but it genuinely feels like the show runner is being a little self indulgent here trying to rewrite the masterpeice.........the show needs more book lore.

 

its been two episodes of padding and two episodes of drawing the world out, but at 14 books long, and only 64 episodes to do it in, its high time to stop trying to stamp your own mark on the story and just tell the story as it was laid out to you...time to be loyal to RJ

[Maximillion]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

 

Because essentially all fathers need to be awful in Rafe of Time.

Mat father--> womenizer

Steppin father---> Beated his son

Father of Alanna's warder---> tried to kill his son

etc. etc.

 

 

'Rafe of Time' - yes!  That is exactly what we're watching.  He made the whole show about himself and his interpretations of what his mother read to him when he was a child by the look of it.  That is why the show has been taken up with side stories like the Steppin and Logain episodes - where the writing was actually child like.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Maximillion

[fra85uk]

But it is obvious that RJ2 does not care about the books, they are just a mean to inject his (horrible, horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE) stuff. 

 

P.S. Rafe, at least hire a decent Director of Photography with your 90 millions budget. The low quality of lighting is getting unnerving.

[Maximillion]

11 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

Sad you won’t be continuing the journey then. Good of you to stick through 6 episodes. 

 

I liked it tho so I shall press onward into the breach.

 

 

I do not begrudge you your enjoyment even a little. 

 

[RextheDog]

7 hours ago, Sabio said:

This episode reinforces my frustration with the pacing.  Look at Moiraine. 

One moment she is in the chamber getting yelled at, then she is outside Rand and Mat inn, then she is in a bath, then she is with Egwene and Perrin, then she is back in the tower.

 

It reminds me of a killer movie where one moment the killer is in a barn, then the killer is in a closet, then suddenly the killer is behind a tree with zero attempt to show this person jumping from place to place.

not really sure what the issue is here?....can you explain further?

 

its like you want her to be in one room for the episode?....surely shes allowed to move around?

[Indil]

41 minutes ago, Mailman said:

And the worst moment of the series by far instead of telling Siuan that she had found the Dragon Reborn the thing the 2 of them had worked towards for 20 years the thing that means the salvation or ruination of the world they have sex first.

Exactly. I'd imagine the first thing Siuan and Moiraine talk about when they meet in private is the DR. They literally searched for the Dragon for 20 years, and man-kind rids on their shoulder. But the show depicted it as something to be casually dropped after sex.

[Maximillion]

4 minutes ago, Indil said:

Exactly. I'd imagine the first thing Siuan and Moiraine talk about when they meet in private is the DR. They literally searched for the Dragon for 20 years, and man-kind rids on their shoulder. But the show depicted it as something to be casually dropped after sex.

 

'on your knees' seems to be one of the biggest talking points about the show.  Tells you everything you need to know about the Twitter world that this show was made for.

[Brytac]

When GOT came out(well....before it)I advised various family to watch this upcming series as the books were amazing...and if they stuck to the books, it could be immense.

 

They all started watching, they grew hooked and loved it over many years.

 

 

Forward wind to 2 months ago, told them the same sort of thing re WOT.

 

Now, after 5 episodes(yes 5), every single one of them have stopped watching it.  Boring...nonsense is the most common statement.

 

WOT is not going to be going down as a sucess....it wont be remembered.

 

Ardent GOT fans loved GOT and spread the word like wildfire....a brilliant story being retold on the screens.

 

From what I can tell...WOT book fans are as in the dark about WTH is going on in WOT as none readers are.  Why they bothered picking a franchise if they thought it required so much changing is utterly beyond me.

 

They thought they know better than the authors.....invariably...they dont.

 

 

[Mailman]

If you changed the names in this show no one would have any idea it was the the WoT

Edited December 10, 2021 by Mailman

[themann1086]

Every non reader I've recommended the show to loved last night's episode more than I did ?‍♂️ I'm still in "episode 4 was the best" camp.

 

At least Mat disappearing from the plot for a bit doesn't require a building to fall on him this time

[WheelofJuke]

3 hours ago, Guire said:

So I have watched Ep 6 three times now.  I think I am tapping out.  I will probably binge watch first 2 seasons at some point just to see what happens.  I set my expectations too high.  I really like actors and even some scenes in ep 6 were amazing.  I have lots of criticism of arc choices, editing, pacing, visual elements, and the interjection of worldview that I think detracted from coherence of the story.  I won't go into that because I know most posters here are really enjoying show.  Covid definitely hurt the making of season one. 

 

If the show executives were going to tell the story that seems to be unfolding on screen, they should have made season 1 be a retelling of New Spring.  Being able to focus on a young Siuan, Moraine, and Lan in flashback while doing world building through Lan and Moraines 20 year search would have been a better intro for EF5.  2nd season could then have been a better characterization of EF5 leading up to Eye of the World.  Lots of middle series plots could have been cut to still allow 8 seasons culminating in a smaller yet still amazing Last Battle.

 

Hope the show still delivers for people enjoying it.

 

Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared...

to spit in Sightblinders eye on the Last Day!

[Talya]

2 hours ago, dwn said:

 

I suspect Moiraine might be mistaken about Liandrin's male "friend".

 

 

My first thought was he would be a dark friend messenger or servant of some kind. So just as unlikely wanting her fellow reds to know about him. 

[chri5]

Just going to say I enjoyed this episode a lot. 

[WheelofJuke]

2 hours ago, Brytac said:

When GOT came out(well....before it)I advised various family to watch this upcming series as the books were amazing...and if they stuck to the books, it could be immense.

 

They all started watching, they grew hooked and loved it over many years.

 

 

Forward wind to 2 months ago, told them the same sort of thing re WOT.

 

Now, after 5 episodes(yes 5), every single one of them have stopped watching it.  Boring...nonsense is the most common statement.

 

WOT is not going to be going down as a sucess....it wont be remembered.

 

Ardent GOT fans loved GOT and spread the word like wildfire....a brilliant story being retold on the screens.

 

From what I can tell...WOT book fans are as in the dark about WTH is going on in WOT as none readers are.  Why they bothered picking a franchise if they thought it required so much changing is utterly beyond me.

 

They thought they know better than the authors.....invariably...they dont.

 

 

"Boring...nonsense."

 

Perfect encapsulation of my feelings. I'm stealing this as my two word review to any friends who inquire about the show. Succinct. Love it. ?

Edited December 10, 2021 by WheelofJuke
spellin