tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[Therese Sedai]

7 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

Ooft, if this was meant to be the good episode of the season I'm not sure I'll be back for season 2. It's not awful, but it definitely feels more mediocre with odd high notes than actually good, and it's certainly not living up to expectations.

 

Liked

• Hall of the Tower - nailed the look and feel perfectly
• Really all the indoor sets this week. I get the comments that everything looks too clean, but I think it's ok and works with the series. There is a charm and gentleness to WoT compared to say GoT which I think makes this aesthetic work.
• The back turning during the exile scene - really got to me.
• Oath rod looked fab.
• Logain (as always).
• Lan really had some great 'stony-faced' looks when he wasn't talking.
• Loved the use of the 'by the Light and my hope of salvation and rebirth' pretty much verbatim - beautifully done.
• The wee smirk on Egwene's face when she thought she was the most powerful channeler in a thousand years followed by her look of disappointment was a great, subtle little appreciation of her character.
• Liandrin's Taraboner braids in all their glory.
• Rosamund Pike really is doing a super job with Moiraine.

Disliked

• why were 'Siuan' and 'Moiraine' each pronounced 2-3 different ways within one episode!? So lazy not to get this right (or at least consistent).
• The modern phrases were awful and so jarring ('upbeat' from Lan and 'blow smoke up our asses' from Nynaeve...who washed people's mouths out with soap for bad language to add insult to injury)
• Lan's lines were largely horrific. His retort to Rand on their meeting was so off character.
• The CGI looks cheap.
• Siuan didn't quite do it for me. The actress seemed to be playing three totally different characters split between the Hall, her evening with Moiraine, and her audience with Nynaeve and Egwene. I appreciate it's a big ask to play scenes where Siuan would have held herself so differently but there wasn't enough of a common thread to tie the three together for me.
• The oath rod swearing was...odd. Did the other Sisters not hear Moiraine's edits? Was it even necessary to have her swear? As she can't lie, couldn't Moiraine just have promised not to return..? 
• Rand feels like a side character at this point.
• Missed the mirror effect from the Ways opening.

The whole series is just feeling a bit washy-washy. It seems to be trying to be all things to all people and isn't really committing to anything. Its not really faithful to the books at all anymore, but it's not it's own story either. It doesn't want to go down the overtly-sexual line of GoT but it isn't happy to run with RJ's (largely) really subtle allusions to PG-13 material stand.

 

 

Siuan is played that way to impress upon the audience how seriously she takes her duties as the Amyrlin vs how far from her personal identity it is. 
 

I did feel that she acted a little strange in the scene with Nyn and Egs but maybe someone else has some ideas about why that was. 

[Agitel]

I haven't done my rewatch of E6 yet, but at this time it's my least favorite episode. I'm not entirely sure I can put an explanation into words yet. This may change on rewatch.

[Agitel]

And this really isn't fair, but I could not help but think of the Klingon High Council turning its back on Worf in Star Trek TNG during the exile scene. It's like... almost beat for beat.

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Reviews from New York Times, NPR, and Rolling Stone all negative. 

Seen a few positive ones too but not from big sources...

Check the reviews from LoTR in that time of innocence. The only good review was from the LAT, a critic who has since retired. 

[WheelofJuke]

I can't believe people are subjecting themselves to rewatches! You people are saints! ?? ?

[Finfolfin]

Problems with the episode

. It's the Moiraine show

-I rate Pike as an actress but she is dominated it too much imo. Give the others some limelight

.Rand, Perrin and Mat barely getting creen time again

-even the talk of Perrins eyes is relegated to Egwene explaining it to Moiraine

-Rand had a couple of lines this week which weren't about Egwene ! yay!

- The execution of Mat not entering the ways

 

.The plot and lore

. T-they could all be the Dragon I can't let The Dark One have them , Lets Mat leave when they could have just left him to be healed in Tar Valon this is shoddy writing

 

. They have ter'angreals to travel now

 

.Apprently the Dragon can be all five of them just nope

 

what could be good

 

.They're accelrating Mats story which will be decent as it doesn't pick up until book three and Mat is the best character in the books (this is objectively true)

[Agitel]

2 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

 

Rotten Tomatoes critic scores:

 

all critics :

49 fresh

23 rotten

 average score 7.25

 

top critics

 16 fresh

12 rotten

 average score 6.6

 

 Somehow that equals 84%?

 

 

 

Episodes that get at least four critic reviews get their own ratings, and that's factored into the score. Episode 4 met that bar and has 100% positive reviews. 72 + 100 / 2 = 86.

 

Something else must have happened since then if it's 84 now, but that's the logic.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Agitel

[Arie]

1 minute ago, Therese Sedai said:

Siuan is played that way to impress upon the audience how seriously she takes her duties as the Amyrlin vs how far from her personal identity it is. 
 

I did feel that she acted a little strange in the scene with Nyn and Egs but maybe someone else has some ideas about why that was. 

 

 

I have a thought on the Nyn/Egs with Suian. Moraine and her likely talked, but I think she didn't tell her that much. Personal details means getting attached, etc. So Suian made herself approachable. The smile on Moraine's face at Nyn's spite is almost hilarious with the vibe of "See what I have to deal with?". These are two girls who think of Aes Sedai as legends, myths, and to Nyn, parasites. There isn't convincing Nyn what side she should be on, but that her available allies are small and not so forgiving if she continues to alienate everyone. 

 

Even Egs, after her show of eagerness as to what to do next, if Egs becomes Aes Sedai whether Nyn likes it or not, how will she handle her situation then? 

 

It leaves for some interesting and rather subtle character building.

[Finfolfin]

6 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Rand is a side character at this point. If he were the main character at the get-go, people would be complaining that there was no "character arc." It remains to be seen, but this is the way good stories start.

Rand is not a side character in EotW. if this was a way 'good stories start' then we wouldnt be arguing about the state of this show.

[Agitel]

2 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

I can't believe people are subjecting themselves to rewatches! You people are saints! ?? ?

 

My first watch is stream of consciousness "that's not in the books that's not in the books that's not in the books." On the rewatch I can watch it without those nagging thoughts.

[Therese Sedai]

1 minute ago, Arie said:

 

 

I have a thought on the Nyn/Egs with Suian. Moraine and her likely talked, but I think she didn't tell her that much. Personal details means getting attached, etc. So Suian made herself approachable. The smile on Moraine's face at Nyn's spite is almost hilarious with the vibe of "See what I have to deal with?". These are two girls who think of Aes Sedai as legends, myths, and to Nyn, parasites. There isn't convincing Nyn what side she should be on, but that her available allies are small and not so forgiving if she continues to alienate everyone. 

 

Even Egs, after her show of eagerness as to what to do next, if Egs becomes Aes Sedai whether Nyn likes it or not, how will she handle her situation then? 

 

It leaves for some interesting and rather subtle character building.

Ah I see. I think perhaps subtlety is not my forte. Although I’m learning to really pay attention to the details in this show. It does have a gentle quality to it that’s absent from a lot of TV. 

[king of nowhere]

i liked how they brought up the white tower politics.

there are some deviations from the book that leave me "huh?", especially mat at the end. but i can't judge them without seeing where they go with this

[Harad the White]

Just now, Finfolfin said:

Rand is not a side character in EotW.

I'll alert the media. Now, remind me why Season 1 of the Amazon Series, has to hew to EotW, rather convey the essence of WoT in a manner entertaining to the viewers. 

[Finfolfin]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

I'll alert the media. Now, remind me why Season 1 of the Amazon Series, has to hew to EotW, rather convey the essence of WoT in a manner entertaining to the viewers. 

I see. You are huffing the copium.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

My first watch is stream of consciousness "that's not in the books that's not in the books that's not in the books."

I suggest you compartmentalize. It's not the Book, but as an experiment, try "I'm going to think of it as a stand-alone story, that allows me another visit to the world of WoT." 

[Maximillion]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I'll alert the media. Now, remind me why Season 1 of the Amazon Series, has to hew to EotW, rather convey the essence of WoT in a manner entertaining to the viewers. 

So the essence of WoT doesn’t include Rand as a major character??

hmm

[Harad the White]

Just now, Maximillion said:

So the essence of WoT doesn’t include Rand as a major character??

hmm

If a reaction is so far off the point, what's the best response? Hope.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Maximillion said:

So the essence of WoT doesn’t include Rand as a major character??

hmm

I mean Rand is a major character in the tv show, so I'm trying to follow the point. There is no reason the show has to have Rand as the only important character or even as the central character. 

[fra85uk]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I'll alert the media. Now, remind me why Season 1 of the Amazon Series, has to hew to EotW, rather convey the essence of WoT in a manner entertaining to the viewers. 

Well, EotW is a pretty nice book full of adventure and tension. I don't think that a closer adaptation (which does not mean 1:1) would have been not entertaining for the viewers. 

[Therese Sedai]

8 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

My first watch is stream of consciousness "that's not in the books that's not in the books that's not in the books." On the rewatch I can watch it without those nagging thoughts.

This is exactly how I’ve been watching the show! I do a first watch with my wife. She laughs at me constantly yelling “that’s not what happens!” 
 

Then over the weekend I rewatch it. I find it that it stands up fine if held on its own merits, independent of the books. It’s my own pedanticism that ruins the initial watch. 

[Finfolfin]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

I mean Rand is a major character in the tv show, so I'm trying to follow the point. There is no reason the show has to have Rand as the only important character or even as the central character. 

He has been relegated to a nothing character that Steppin had nearly as many lines (maybe even more) and just as much screen time(maybe even more). There has been little to any development of his character. Its poorly executed. To us he is a major character, but my missus, who hasnt read the books, doesn't even remember his name when he comes on screen.

[A Memory Of Why]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

He doesn't owe us squat.

 

Going to have to respectfully disagree here guys..

 

Rafe promised deleted scenes! I'd like some deleted scenes Rafe..!

Please..

 

Also going to need this to do well Rafe so I can finally get my hands on a full scale Choedan Kal desk lamp set with dimmer / Bluetooth control ?

Edited December 10, 2021 by A Memory Of Why
Spelling

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, fra85uk said:

Well, EotW is a pretty nice book full of adventure and tension. I don't think that a closer adaptation (which does not mean 1:1) would have been not entertaining for the viewers. 

Many Book readers consider it among the weakest Books. I'll have a fuller response when I work out whether that's a double negative or a triple negative.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Therese Sedai said:

It’s my own pedanticism that ruins the initial watch. 

Definitely. I've enjoyed every single episode better the second time around, after I've had the opportunity to stress about all of the 'critical things' they missed. Usually on watch #2, the things I was so worried about don't seem to matter as much.

[Maximillion]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I mean Rand is a major character in the tv show, so I'm trying to follow the point. There is no reason the show has to have Rand as the only important character or even as the central character. 

Is he?

Feels like he is very much a support character so far.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Maximillion