tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[Sabio]

1 hour ago, WheelofJuke said:

So....his mother was a Darkfriend? ?

It's more of a mystical ward off bad omens sort of thing. Lan mentioned "Not many people still make offerings to ward off the Forsaken".  He was doing it to Ishy (Father of Lies) to ward off the lies so he could see clearly.  So could be each Forsaken was seen to have a special power one would try to ward against.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sabio

[TheDreadReader]

24 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Where is that coming from?  Guess I wasn't clear, sorry.

 

Kicking the dog is a tv trope.  Basically, it is when a character does something bad or cruel to ensure that the character isn't sympathized with.  In the way that the show has characterized Mat, it would be out of character for him to threaten his sisters with anything whether it was intentional or unintentional.   It would prejudice new viewers against his character.

 

For example, the connection between Valda and food is an invocation of the kicking the dog trope.

 

24 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

 

When I said Mat was telling his sisters about the Forsaken to scare them - it was meant to be in the mischievous big brother sense.  Big brothers and sisters love pranking/scaring younger siblings.  Not sure how we got to kicking a dog.

 

The scenes by which Mat is characterized in episode one don't leave a lot of room for teasing except for the one's where they are establishing his relationship with Perrin and Rand.

 

24 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Forsaken lore was addressed in EF.  And could have been here.  Tower focus may be a focus for the show but didn't need to be.

 

In the way that they are structuring this adaptation it actually makes more sense to progressively reveal information throughout the episodes rather than info dump it at the beginning.  Viewers are already primed to wonder about the figure in the dream sequences,  Dana name-dropping Ishy, and now they reference it again her; that helps the viewer note the significance of him and expect to see it play out for them.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by TheDreadReader
Fixed an error.

[DojoToad]

2 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Kicking the dog is a tv trope.  Basically, it is when a character does something bad or cruel to ensure that the character isn't sympathized with.  In the way that the show has characterized Mat, it would be out of character for him to threaten his sisters with anything whether it was intentional or unintentional.   It would prejudice new viewers against his character.

 

For example, the connection between Valda and food is an invocation of the kicking the dog trope.

 

 

The scenes by which Mat is characterized in episode one don't leave a lot of room for teasing except for the one's where they are establishing his relationship with Perrin and Rand.

 

 

In the way that they are structuring this adaptation it actually makes more sense to progressively reveal information throughout the episodes rather than info dump it at the beginning.  Viewers are already primed to wonder about the figure in the dream sequences, the Dana referenced Ishy, and now they reference it again her; that helps the viewer note the significance of him and expect to see it play out for them.

 

Clear on what you're saying, just don't believe the show route is correct.  Difference of opinion - all good.

[Sabio]

29 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Another disastrous episode with shallow writing.

 

 Summary:

- Steppin dead. Who cares? There was so little depth of character development the scale of the on screen mourning (with cheesy ceremony) seemed comical. 
- same for his Aes Sedai. No character development of any note. Like asking the audience to mourn the death of an extra - they devoted almost 1/3 of the episode to grieving characters that the vast majority of the viewing audience are unlikely to care about.

- Lan tricked again. Poor fellow can’t do anything right. ‘I will stay with you tonight’. Wakes up. Oops, I did it again.

- the attempt at politicking between liandrin and moiraine . Ouch, that was bad. I think of the wonderful exchanges in GoT around the politics and there is no comparison. 
- the introduction of The Forsaken. Horrible sound editing. Couldn’t even make out everything being said. I doubt the audience even heard Ishy’s name correctly or got any insight into who he is.

- Nynaeve trying to heal Mat? In Tar Valon? All of a sudden she cares so little about him that she’s willing to risk his life instead of asking for help - in Tar Valon???
- Loial is not tall enough. I quite like the features but he is barely as tall as Rand.

- Whitecloaks … this is what I mean about bad writing. The old which  one of you is going to die dilemma. Blood and ashes! 
- Whitecloaks hanging around outside Tar Valon??? I guess they don’t really fear the one power at all.

- Valda actually letting Egwene try to channel????? What if she had been powerful??? She would have killed him. Taking quite the chance there. Again terrible writing.

- ‘one month later’. really??? the entire journey to Tar Valon from the Two Rivers has been anything but epic. It just doesn’t  have any scale. 
- it’s that recurring feeling that the show is TRYING to be epic but is the complete opposite. It feels small.

- crowd turning up to see the False Dragon??? Right. Ok. It was about 100 people. Again. Felt so small.

 

 This was the worst  of the 5 episodes and that is saying something.

 

 

In the book there were Whitecloaks near Tar Valon.  Ehen Byar was told he could go tell Bornhald's son that his father died, he was told he was with Eamon near Tar Valon.  They mostly tried to bully towns and such but wouldn't do anything too hostile.  Since they weren't shadowspawn the Aes Sedai couldn't attack them but if they got too out of hand the tower guard could be sent to deal with them.

 

Valda knew she wasn't Aes Sedai and took her as an untrained girl going for training.  Since he has killed full Aes Sedai it isn't too shocking he wouldn't see her as much of a threat.  She was captured rather easily, it's also been speculated he may have something that helps protect him from channeling.  He expected her to try something and mentioned how her flame was even weaker than he had expected.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sabio

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Deviations said:

The long run is how many books away when Lan's bond is handed off?  Why set that up now?  Why aren't they more effectively setting up Lan's relationship with Rand, which in the early books, are as important as his relationship with Nynave?

 

Why waste time and special effects dollars with a ring melting or a procession?  Specific things happened in Camelyn that are critical to the story and the development of each central character.  They cut Camelyn out and filled in with fabricated lesser material.

Depending on which season we get book 3, we'll get Lan & Moiraine's bond breaking in the following season. (S3 or S4)

[TheDreadReader]

32 minutes ago, Borderlander said:

 

I could see a scene playing out next week maybe where Nyneave is struggling to understand why Steppin did it, and worrying that perhaps her words to him ("Trust me, the pain will never go away") pushed him over the edge... but then Moiraine or Lan use the opportunity to explain a little more in depth about the nature of the bond, and how many Warders who lose their Aes Sedai end up committing suicide-by-trolloc or something similar, and how it would have actually been more surprising to those in the Tower if Steppin had overcome his grief and lived on.

 

Which in turn should make Nyneave eventually bonding Lan so much more powerful because the viewer clearly understands that they are taking each other's lives into their hands in a very real way.

 

 

Just adding that Steppin can also lay the groundwork for showing Lan's expectation that he will die fighting in the Blight.  (That's basically in alignment with your suicide-by-trolloc line.)

 

 

[Pandemonium]

Curious as to why they didn't use prosthetics on Loial's legs, like the trollocs.  They must have experimented with it, maybe it didn't look natural with his walking?

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

Curious as to why they didn't use prosthetics on Loial's legs, like the trollocs.  They must have experimented with it, maybe it didn't look natural with his walking?

He definitely has something going on.
I dunno if he's wearing platform shoes or shorter stilts... 

One of the issues with stilts in general, is they make your leg below the knee longer, but do nothing to increase the distance between your knee and hip. So it would look really goofy IMO if they had him wear the same kind of stilts but made them look like human legs.

Trollocs having goat legs helps mitigate the unnaturalness of stilts.

[Vambram]

For me, episode 5 was the weakest of the 5 episodes, but I still liked most of scenes and dialogue. My favorite scenes in this episode was Rand with Loial, and also Perrin & Egwene with the Whitecloaks. Logain's laughing at Rand and Mat was great to see. I enjoyed Padan Fain's cameos. Also, Eamon Valda's scenes with Egwene and Perrin was delightfully evil. The villains I love to hate the most are those who actually believe that they are doing the right thing, but the rest of us know just how wicked they are.

 

I believe that the scenes with Stepin, the suicide, and the ritual funeral at the end of the episode resonated well for non-readers of the WoT books. And that is a good thing. However, for most of us fans who've been reading the books for decades, we can rightfully feel as if at least 15 minutes were wasted in this episode which should have included scenes that followed EoTW more faithfully. 

[TheDreadReader]

1 hour ago, Deviations said:

Why waste time and special effects dollars with a ring melting or a procession?  Specific things happened in Camelyn that are critical to the story and the development of each central character.  They cut Camelyn out and filled in with fabricated lesser material.

 

None the Camelyn stuff has excluded by anything in the plot and they can now happen in Tar Valon.  They even created conditions for a possible Rand and Elayne meeting happening in the next episode.  (Not saying that it is going to happen but the conditions are there if you read between the lines.)    

 

Just because they took a different route it doesn't always mean that the destination changes.

 

[Maximillion]

20 minutes ago, Sabio said:

In the book there were Whitecloaks near Tar Valon.  Ehen Byar was told he could go tell Bornhald's son that his father died, he was told he was with Eamon near Tar Valon.  They mostly tried to bully towns and such but wouldn't do anything too hostile.  Since they weren't shadowspawn the Aes Sedai couldn't attack them but if they got too out of hand the tower guard could be sent to deal with them.

 

Valda knew she wasn't Aes Sedai and took her as an untrained girl going for training.  Since he has killed full Aes Sedai it isn't too shocking he wouldn't see her as much of a threat.  She was captured rather easily, it's also been speculated he may have something that helps protect him from channeling.

so Whitecloaks right outside attacking parties arriving at the tower at the very time Moraine is expecting the rest of the party to turn up. Looking out for them with her eyes and ears across the city, apparently.

 You think for a potential Dragon Reborn they might think to stop Whitecloaks cutting off the potential Dragons hands and burning him (or her…) at the stake.

 The writing is so lazy… that is what I mean about shallow. The scenes are like some separate entity not connected to any world building, character building or story building.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Maximillion

[Rand the Plumber]

32 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

 

I’m going to need to rewatch, but I don’t recall much expression at all. His face reminds of the Burger King mascot. Looks like a wooden mask. 

 

 

I might have read something that wasn't there, but I distinctly remember just the faintest flash of... something (irritation?) when Loial was about to respond to something Rand said, and Rand then went straight onto something else.  Loial then comments "I forgot how you humans make light of such things", or something along those lines.

 

I didn't like the face at first, but I love the voice, and that lulled me into loving the face too.

[Sabio]

How did Egwene get free?  After her fire, her bonds were still there.  Is this sort of an oops moment by the director?

[Skipp]

6 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

so Whitecloaks right outside attacking parties arriving at the tower at the very time Moraine is expecting the rest of the party to turn up. Looking out for them with her eyes and ears across the city, apparently.

 You think for a potential Dragon Reborn they might think to stop Whitecloaks cutting off the potential Dragons hands and burning him (or her…) at the stake.

 The writing is so lazy… that is what I mean about shallow. The scenes are like some separate entity not connected to any world building, character building or story building.

It's not like the Whitecloaks never stopped a party containing Egwene right outside of Tar'Valon in the books right?  And this time they didn't actually have an Aes Sedai there to intimidate them.

 

Not much of a leap that people don't care that the Whitecloaks are accosting Tinkers outside of Tar'Valon.  Most people don't seem to give to bits about the tinkers.

[Skipp]

Just now, Sabio said:

How did Egwene get free?  After her fire, her bonds were still there.  Is this sort of an oops moment by the director?

 

I personally assumed she burned her ropes while Valda was focused on Perrin.  Just like she burned Perrins while he was focused on her.

 

I do wish they had Perrin Beat Valda down in a bit of a rage though.  i wonder where they are taking his arc.

[Maximillion]

Just now, Skipp said:

 

I personally assumed she burned her ropes while Valda was focused on Perrin.  Just like she burned Perrins while he was focused on her.

 

I do wish they had Perrin Beat Valda down in a bit of a rage though.  i wonder where they are taking his arc.

 

i have a feeling Valda is going to be one of the Foresaken 

[Sabio]

Also Whitecloaks are bullies, if the group is small or looks weak, like the Tinkers, they act.  People who look as if they may give them a fight or such they tend to leave alone or let pass without too much hassle.  

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

 

i have a feeling Valda is going to be one of the Foresaken 

I actually heard a rumor that speculated that Thom was Asmodean because the one Forsaken statue has a guitar.

[Skipp]

The other interesting plot theory I heard about Valda was that he was a man that could channel and submitted himself to gentling.  Now he deals with his pain by killing Aes Sedai.  His quote to the yellow Aes Sedai mirriored something similar that Liandrin.  I will see if I can find the direct quote.

[Daenelia]

There I was, getting ready to watch this over lunch and ... meetings pop up! Not mine. But I insist on watching this with my guy. So I had to wait till dinner. I could not even read here!

 

I was very exited to see Loial, and then wolves, right after Blood and Ashes, which did not even make much of an impact on my guy. I guess the swear words just blend in for non-readers.

 

My chihuahua kind of reacted to the growls of the wolf, so that was fun.

 

At first I rolled my eyes at Loial. Then he started talking and walking and ... it clicked. I am very happy with him now.

 

There was a lot of easy exposition in this episode, which may have made it feel a bit slower. But it was necessary and a bit of a pause before we go further is nice. Yes, good episode.

[ForsakenPotato]

I could be wrong but I think the Perrin and Valda arc from the books will still remain. Yes Egwene channeled and stabbed him, but Perrin growled loudly, his eyes flashed gold, and then all of Valda's men were attacked by wolves. I think Valda will remember that and be just as convinced Perrin is a darkfriend in the show as he in the books (unless Valda is a darkfriend or foresaken, in which case he'll just be super pissed off at Perrin and Egwene for getting away...those meddling kids).

[Raezold]

8 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I could be wrong but I think the Perrin and Valda arc from the books will still remain. Yes Egwene channeled and stabbed him, but Perrin growled loudly, his eyes flashed gold, and then all of Valda's men were attacked by wolves. I think Valda will remember that and be just as convinced Perrin is a darkfriend in the show as he in the books (unless Valda is a darkfriend or foresaken, in which case he'll just be super pissed off at Perrin and Egwene for getting away...those meddling kids).

 

Byar and Bornhald are the ones having a hissy fit with Perrin in the books.

[Sabio]

 

8 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I could be wrong but I think the Perrin and Valda arc from the books will still remain. Yes Egwene channeled and stabbed him, but Perrin growled loudly, his eyes flashed gold, and then all of Valda's men were attacked by wolves. I think Valda will remember that and be just as convinced Perrin is a darkfriend in the show as he in the books (unless Valda is a darkfriend or foresaken, in which case he'll just be super pissed off at Perrin and Egwene for getting away...those meddling kids).

They are basicly replacing Perin having a feud with Bornhold and Byar with Valda.  Valda should actually be angry at Egwene since she stabbed him.  Which sort of leads back to it would of made more sense to have Perin attack Valda and not Egwene.

[caemlyncal]

4 hours ago, Nors said:

Absolutely agree. What a gem!

I felt like a kid on Christmas morning seeing Loial for the first time!! Who cares that he isn't tall enough, he brought me the most joy of the series so far. not saying other parts didn't bring me joy. Unlike the nitpickers I absolutely love everything they have done so far. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS NOT A BOOK IT IS A TV SHOW ADAPTATION!!!

[Vambram]

I do wish that it would have been Perrin who stabbed Valda instead of Egwene. Perrin Goldeneyes is one of my favorite characters of all time.  Beast mode Perrin is awesome in the books, and I wanted to see that onscreen. 

 

 

All of the foreshadowing and Easter eggs in this episode were great. Also, I'm pretty sure that I saw portal stones outside of Tar Valon.