tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[AusLeviathan]

Reflecting on it I think this episode was mostly alright except for the first five minutes. I think that starting the series with multiple scenes of "women are wise and powerful, men are crazy fools and make our power filthy" was a bad idea. Especially since it's possible for a woman to be the Dragon so the issues with Men channeling was mostly left ignored after that and it appears will only really start to be touched on starting with episode 4.

 

Also Liandrin saying that men touching the One Power makes it filthy is weird, as is her suggestion that it's not something for men. It feels almost out of character, something I'd imagine Elaida saying more than Liandrin.

 

Overall it's just too rushed and I think it highlights Rafe's weaknesses. Why put so much expense into building a village set and then rush everything? Fifteen to twenty more minutes of footage of the characters interacting with their families and each other to properly set them up wouldn't have cost that much extra given everything was already constructed. Decisions like that are likely why the budget was that high in the first place.

Edited November 19, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[DaddyFinn]

12 minutes ago, Kathy5 said:

Hello new here to this forum but me and my books are old friends. I wasn't impressed with the first episode of this series so much was not correct  I don't know if I will continue 

Try the rest. It gets better

[Prad Sedai]

10 hours ago, Kilrothy said:

Why did they change Mats family, from one of loving and happy to one of pain.

I was quite put off by this... You start with great respect for Abel Cauthon from the book... And seeing the characterization in the serial put me off... 

[Kathy5]

I don't see how but I guess thankd

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Wraith235 said:

sorry apparently the way I consume shows and process them is somewhat problematic ... I'll find another pllace for this post as I dont want to write 4 diff posts about my feelings on this

we need a place for the combined drop in addition to the individual episodes

 

There is, read the titles of the pinned threads.
 

Season 1 Discussion - Full Book Spoilers

 

Season 1 Discussion - No Book Spoilers

 

[Beidomon]

6 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

1st episode not sure what to think.  why do all the action scenes look so blurry and out of focus?  all the trolloc scenes are so blurry.

 

 

because when they’re in focus and moving around they look like Halloween costumes. 

[Apoc81]

25 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

because when they’re in focus and moving around they look like Halloween costumes. 

This is my problem. Nobody looked at those Trolloc shots and decided that they looked good. The fade looked awesome, I liked them. But the trollocs, wow, they looked like clumsy people with heavy hats. 

[Ararana24]

So let me get this straight...

 

Rafe walks into the pitch meeting "Wheel of Time, only Perrin murders his (pregnant?) wife in a fit of fury"

 

Harriet, who wasn't paying attention "You had me at 25 million dollars"

 

Friends, this is why you never give up your executive decision rights. I'm shocked they honestly thought that was the best way to explain why a big guy tries to be careful with other people. RJ would be rolling in his grave if he knew.

 

Episode 1 was extremely rushed. Amazon paid a lot of money for this show, why didn't they make the pilot 90 minutes to give it extra time to bring people into the world. Not a single of the EM5 had a issue with 'one of you is the DR and the dark one wants you'? We all have read the books, we understand what is happening, I feel bad for people coming into this cold. 

 

Also, the cold open was a bit jarring. The 'a wind picked up' should have been at the very beginning. 

 

I'll admit episode 2 was better, I almost fell asleep through episode 3. I don't think I'm going to last long in this series. At least I don't have to worry about it chancing my perception of the books, this is no were near on par. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Ararana24

[Apoc81]

6 minutes ago, Ararana24 said:

So let me get this straight...

 

Rafe walks into the pitch meeting "Wheel of Time, only Perrin murders his (pregnant?) wife in a fit of fury"

 

Harriet, who wasn't paying attention "You had me at 25 million dollars"

 

Friends, this is why you never give up your executive decision rights. I'm shocked they honestly thought that was the best way to explain why a big guy tries to be careful with other people. RJ would be rolling in his grave if he knew.

 

Episode 1 was extremely rushed. Amazon paid a lot of money for this show, why didn't they make the pilot 90 minutes to give it extra time to bring people into the world. Also, the cold open was a bit jarring. The 'a wind picked up' should have been at the very beginning. 

 

I'll admit episode 2 was better, I almost fell asleep through episode 3. 

He didn't murder his wife in a fit of fury, it was clearly an accident. I don't like the choice either, but this wasn't rage, it was a man trying to stay alive, a man who had never been in a fight for his life, it was a wide swing at what he thought was a murderous trolloc.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Apoc81

[Ararana24]

1 minute ago, Apoc81 said:

He didn't murder his wife in a fit of fury, it was clearly an accident. I don't like the choice either, but this wasn't rage, it was a man trying to stay alive, a man who had never been in a fight for his life, it was clearly an accident.

 

Strong disagree. The show even gave him 3-4 seconds of mindlessly hacking a dead trolloc before he chops down his wife. I'm not saying he did it intentionally, but it's still murder.  

 

Such a waste of material. 

[Apoc81]

1 minute ago, Ararana24 said:

 

Strong disagree. The show even gave him 3-4 seconds of mindlessly hacking a dead trolloc before he chops down his wife. I'm not saying he did it intentionally, but it's still murder.  

 

Such a waste of material. 

No, at best it would be manslaughter (I'm an actual Criminal Defense Lawyer). It clearly was an accident.

[Katherine]

So I had a night to sleep on it and here are my overall thoughts. 

 

I REALLY liked Episode 1. 

 

I saw Matrim Bloody Cauthon with a dice cup in his hand, and no one can ever take that away from me. 

 

I liked the beginning with the Red Ajah. They were as unlikeable as they should be. 

 

I felt teary in Emonds Field. Beautiful. 

 

Tam Al'Thor is amazing. 

 

The Braid Ceremony was wonderful. I am so glad we got to see that. 

 

Saidar is beautifully rendered. 

 

 

Things that were weird and off. 

 

 Bath time with the warder was.... bizarre. 

 

The convo with Moraine and Nyn was not better in context. 

 

Had Moraine even talked to the lads before simply announcing "Hey you could be the dragon, your life is over, come with me. 

 

The tension between Perrin and his wife sans context was also weird. 

 

Trollocs looked terrible. 

 

 

THe CGI and dialogue need to improve QUICKLY. 

[Ararana24]

5 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

No, at best it would be manslaughter (I'm an actual Criminal Defense Lawyer). It clearly was an accident.

 

Whatever it would be by today's laws, it's still a huge disservice to the books and the character. I can't believe the rumor turned out to be true. Moronic decision. 

[Apoc81]

Just now, Ararana24 said:

 

Whatever it would be by today's laws, it's still a huge disservice to the books and the character. I can't believe the rumor turned out to be true. Moronic decision. 

I mean, I don't love it, but I won't complain until I see the payoff. Give them time.

[Texas Grognard]

Having (and then killing) Laila works for a lot of reasons.

 

We all know that Perrin falls off a third of the way through the book series.  He's so inactive, so pensive, and so focused on Faile--and it all happens in inner monologue.  They needed a way to visualize that for the show (just watch for the flashbacks that are inevitably going to feature in lieu of inner-monologue). 

 

This gives him a reason to hesitate for violence and be afraid of his own strength.  It's much more present for us because in the book his family is killed off screen.

 

But additionally--I'm calling it now--Laila was a Darkfriend.

 

• She was estranged from the Women's Circle--didn't even attend Egwene's ceremony.
• She did not participate in the celebrations afterward.
• She was oddly estranged from Perrin in some weird ways (like maybe she married him just to keep an eye on him)
• When he struck she had her hammer/axe over head in both hands and was about to strike him.  

 

On the last point--look at the freeze frame.  Two handed grip, overhead.  The Trolloc is way dead.  There aren't any other trollocs in the smithy.  She's far enough back that she has a great vantage point to establish this. She's going for Perrin.

 

Finally, I think Perrin acts fast through his wolf-brother instincts.  That's going to estrange him from the wolves too, not just violence generally.  He felt the threat and acted.

[Agitel]

On the Laila-is-a-darkfriend theory, it would explain her being tense and upset ahead of Bel Tine. And something about a scene in episode three.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Agitel

[Apoc81]

3 minutes ago, Texas Grognard said:

Having (and then killing) Laila works for a lot of reasons.

 

We all know that Perrin falls off a third of the way through the book series.  He's so inactive, so pensive, and so focused on Faile--and it all happens in inner monologue.  They needed a way to visualize that for the show (just watch for the flashbacks that are inevitably going to feature in lieu of inner-monologue). 

 

This gives him a reason to hesitate for violence and be afraid of his own strength.  It's much more present for us because in the book his family is killed off screen.

 

But additionally--I'm calling it now--Laila was a Darkfriend.

 

• She was estranged from the Women's Circle--didn't even attend Egwene's ceremony.
• She did not participate in the celebrations afterward.
• She was oddly estranged from Perrin in some weird ways (like maybe she married him just to keep an eye on him)
• When he struck she had her hammer/axe over head in both hands and was about to strike him.  

 

On the last point--look at the freeze frame.  Two handed grip, overhead.  The Trolloc is way dead.  There aren't any other trollocs in the smithy.  She's far enough back that she has a great vantage point to establish this. She's going for Perrin.

 

Finally, I think Perrin acts fast through his wolf-brother instincts.  That's going to estrange him from the wolves too, not just violence generally.  He felt the threat and acted.

I need to rewatch, I didn't get the idea she was attacking him.

[ArrylT]

9 hours ago, KnightWhoSaysNi said:

Hi everyone! 

 

I'm new here and don't want to step on anyone's toes, obviously.  I just posted in the "Introduce Yourself" thread so if you want to know my backstory go there.  lol

 

I just watched the 1st episode.... twice.   I'm kind of split on if I liked it or not.   I'm definitely ecstatic that it is finally here, so I will watch it and continue to watch it.   I agree with one of the other posters about the editing.  It felt to cut-up and not fluid, made it a little dizzying to watch (I'm speaking mostly of the Battle of Bel Tine)  Of course, I may just be an old fart and get dizzy easily

 

Please be gentle, I am new here ? lol

 

 

Likewise.   In that I am new here, posted in Introduce Yourself, and concur with the editing.

 

In the long run Episode 1 will make no difference to me on whether I am going to watch the series or not - I am.  Basically you can say I loved the episode, liked it & disliked it all at once.  I will go into more detail later but here are some brief thoughts.

 

Love:

 

Loved finally seeing WOT on screen

Loved seeing the characters start their arcs & develop.    The scene between Rand & Egwene where Rand just "knew" she was going to become a Wisdom as an example.

Loved the fight at the farm.

Loved the presence of Moiraine.   

 

Like:

 

Liked the action.    

Liked the parts where they could stay true to the books as close as possible.  

Liked the look of the Trollocs

Liked how well Moiraine & Lan worked togetheri n the battle.

Liked the chemistry between most main characters.

 

Dislike:

 

No mention of the Flame & the Void (that I noticed).  

Emonds Field location bugged me.

Editing felt too rushed. 

Lan wanting warmer water.  

The way they left TR differed from the book

No nice mini arc of townspeople angry at Moiraine only to have the mayor shame them followed by Moiraine epic speech about Manetheren.

 

Still Processing

 

Perrin / Laila

 

I honestly think that the pilot opening episode could have been 75 min.   I totally get & wont be bothered that it was 60min.   Just that a slightly longer episode run time would hopefully have allowed for less of a rushed feel.  

 

I wont give a arbitrary grade to the episode.   I'll simply say it was a pass.  It got us off on the journey.   I have every confidence the episodes will improve.   I have no doubt that I will continue to enjoy WOT.  But I still wish the 1st episode, considering the length of time - could have been better.   A little worried that some (say maybe 20-25% of non book readers) people will start off the series on a negative and might not give it a chance to warm up.   

 

Get to watch it again tonight with my SO.  ??

 

 

 

 

 

[Texas Grognard]

1 minute ago, Apoc81 said:

I need to rewatch, I didn't get the idea she was attacking him.

To be fair, I don't think he got that either.

[Beidomon]

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

Major gripes: 

1) Losing the drama of Rand taking Tam to Emond's Field. And therefore Tam's rambling about finding a child in the snow. This is what drives Rand for most of the series, who am I?

 

Can’t believe I’m the guy that’s gonna defend this stuff, but the change makes sense unless you want to reveal the DR in the first episode. They can do it later as a flashback maybe. 

 

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

3) The Tower turning away Nynaeve's mentor. The Tower wants girls who can channel badly. Siuan is a fisherman's daughter, FFS. This is awful. Attempting to build elitist tropes. 

 

Maybe. Or maybe Nynaeve is just full of it. This is what Nynaeve was told - not necessarily what happened. A lot of women are turned away because they are way too weak. Something Mo might explain later. 

 

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

4) Moiraine's character is awful. Blurting about the Dragon Reborn? Preposterous. Destroying the Inn to throw rocks at Trollocs? Awful. She is Aes Sedai & from Cairhein. Totally out of character. As is a bath with Lan. Ugh.

 

I was very skeptical, but Pike works for me. She brings the needed gravity to the role. I like her. The channeling looks great to me. The bath scene was actually really good. It implies they are intimate - and some AS are intimate with their warders - but to the folks who, it just demonstrates how closely bonded these two are. They basically two halves of the same person. Taking a bath together would be no big deal. And the warming of the water was a nice touch. 

 

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

6) Losing Moiraine's tale of Emond's Field. 

 

You’ll get it in E2, and it falls extremely flat. The monologue worked great in the books but it’s pretty terrible here. 
 

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

7) The ease at which they go with Moiraine. So much for stubborn Two Rivers folk. Yeah, I have never talked to you before, but sure, I will leave everything I know to go with you. Sure. 

 

Well yeah, the leavetaking felt extremely tacked on and basically sucked. Lowest point of the episode. 

 

8 hours ago, TheAngryDruid said:

? 8. Lots of extraneous stuff was added (Perrin's wife, Matt's mom, the Reds, and Egwene at the river, even the battle), at the cost of better stuff.

 

Was it though? I didn’t mind any of these additions (except for the massive “it could be a boy or girl” change, which is terrible). The additions didn’t take long and they worked. It all added up to a pretty great episode except for the stupid leavetaking.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Beidomon

[ArrylT]

7 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

I buy that based on everything I've seen.

 

 

 

Agreed.    Take for example why wasnt she at the Womans Circle ceremony for Egwene.   Well as a DF she wouldnt want to be?  Maybe the Wisdom had a hunch / didnt want her there?   

[Agitel]

I think the only real justification for the four to just leave with Moiraine is the time crunch. They literally see hundreds more Trollocs descending on the village, they're all exhausted, and they're told if they leave the village will be safe. There wasn't really time for them to rationally question it.

 

I'm not saying it wasn't rushed, and I do feel like we should have seen it questioned right then and there by someone or something, but I don't think it's entirely unjustified they left in the moment. 

[notpropaganda73]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one disappointed with the actual leave taking scene. Really it makes zero sense in terms of character motivations and all the rest. I liked a lot of what they did in this first episode but in terms of Moiraine even suspecting the four of them, all we had was her shooting meaningful looks at the four of them if memory serves me correctly. 

[Beidomon]

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Also Liandrin saying that men touching the One Power makes it filthy is weird, as is her suggestion that it's not something for men. It feels almost out of character, something I'd imagine Elaida saying more than Liandrin.

It worked for me. The Red certainly doesn’t help the audience understand the real problem or the dichotomy, but it’s also something I’d expect a Red to say. Now as I’ve said before, the boy or girl decision was a stupid move. 

 

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Overall it's just too rushed and I think it highlights Rafe's weaknesses. Why put so much expense into building a village set and then rush everything? Fifteen to twenty more minutes of footage of the characters interacting with their families and each other to properly set them up wouldn't have cost that much extra given everything was already constructed. Decisions like that are likely why the budget was that high in the first place.

Oh just wait until you get to Shadar Logoth. Try not to blink or you might miss it. 

[Beidomon]

25 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Bath time with the warder was.... bizarre.

I get what they were trying to demonstrate and I liked it - but it’s gonna give a lot of people the wrong impression of their relationship. Maybe thats the point. Or maybe they’ll be having sex at some point and I’ll be furious. And I’ve got no issue with Lan wanting the water to be warmer. Even a warrior badass can enjoy a good soak.