The Forsaken and how to handle them in the show...

[templar7]

Personally I cant see all of these antagonists making the cut. There are just too many of them for a screen adaptation. Who will make the cut? Why, how and when?

thoughts?

[DojoToad]

Well you think 13 is too many - Who will make the cut?  Why, how when?

[templar7]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Well you think 13 is too many - Who will make the cut?  Why, how when?

Thanks for the repeat. I started the post to ask our Dragonmount family a question and engage with those opinions. I have no decided opinion as of yet.  I wanted YOUR opinion my friend!

 

 

[DojoToad]

1 minute ago, templar7 said:

Thanks for the repeat. I started the post to ask our Dragonmount family a question and engage with those opinions. I have no decided opinion as of yet.  I wanted YOUR opinion my friend!

 

 

Yes, you do have an opinion - you can’t see all the antagonists making the cut. There are just too many of them for a screen adaptation…

 

what you failed to do was explain why, how, when. 

[templar7]

12 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Well you think 13 is too many - Who will make the cut?  Why, how when?

As far as individuals go, I think Lanfear, Moridin, Aginor, Graendal, Moghedian for sure and maybe Asmodian.

[templar7]

4 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Yes, you do have an opinion - you can’t see all the antagonists making the cut. There are just too many of them for a screen adaptation…

 

what you failed to do was explain why, how, when. 

Respectfully, please stop trolling! Its the second time you have trolled an opening topic Ive posted.

 

[DaddyFinn]

Ishy, Demandred, Lanfear, Moghedien, Asmodean, Rahvin, Semirhage, Mesaana should stay. Graendal and Sammael maybe. Aginor, Balthamel and Be'lal for sure can be cut/merged with others. Though it would be nice to keep all of them because number 13 you know

[JaimAybara]

This is a great question. A part of me is the optimist and wants to keep them all but the pragmatist list is below.

 

1) Demandred - Pivotal / Keep

2) Ishamael - Pivotal / Keep

 

3) Lanfear - Pivotal / Keep 

 

4) Rahvin - Great Fight/decent screen time but could probably fold into another character. 

 

5) Moghedian - Pivotal / Keep 

6) Mesanna - Pivotal / Keep 

 

7) Graendal - Great subplot, but could likely fold into someone else. Moghedien maybe? 

 

8)Asmodean - Teaches (you know who) but is it necessary that he does? He’s an interesting personality as well and has decent time on the page and could build intrigue on screen.
 

9) Bel’lal - Could likely fold into another character. 

Leave out: 

 

1) Sammael - He’s one of the only one’s I truly can’t think of an argument to keep. So, if I had to remove at least one it would be him.
 

2) Semirhage - Maybe fold into someone else or get rid of? I’m not sure.

 

3) Aginor Perhaps have their roles given to someone else? They are important though.

 

4) Balthamel -They too serve a purpose.

 

 

[JaimAybara]

7 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Ishy, Demandred, Lanfear, Moghedien, Asmodean, Rahvin, Semirhage, Mesaana should stay. Graendal and Sammael maybe. Aginor, Balthamel and Be'lal for sure can be cut/merged with others. Though it would be nice to keep all of them because number 13 you know

Yeah, even when I consider cutting Sammael I think, “well dang we don’t have 13 anymore.” 

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, templar7 said:

Respectfully, please stop trolling! Its the second time you have trolled an opening topic Ive posted.

 

Apologies for troll-like behavior.

 

I read your original post like so:

• You made a statement that you personally thought there were too many Forsaken for a screen adaptation.
• Then you asked us five questions: who, why how, when, thoughts - without providing your answers to same

I was asking in a round-about sort of way - why should I provide my opinion and reasoning behind it when you couldn't be bothered to do the same?  Make sense or no?

 

That's what happens when an old man gets woken up 3 hours after bedtime and can't fall asleep again.  Sorry to offend - need to keep my big trap shut when I don't have my faculties about me.  ?

Edited October 1, 2021 by DojoToad

[thehumantrashcan]

Keep 'em all.  Some won't be developed or come off cliche sure but if they get the right actors it could be good.  Really good, even if they have the same screen time as word/page count in the book.

[Ultraprimax]

Keep them all, Play it out as well as the books did. There doesn't need to be a lot of character building or history for some of them.  I just hope that they do not rush this series, in the same way that Game of Thrones was abhorrently ruined in the final season.

[Spiritweaver1]

On 9/30/2021 at 11:09 PM, JaimAybara said:

This is a great question. A part of me is the optimist and wants to keep them all but the pragmatist list is below.

 

1) Demandred - Pivotal / Keep

2) Ishamael - Pivotal / Keep

 

3) Lanfear - Pivotal / Keep 

 

4) Rahvin - Great Fight/decent screen time but could probably fold into another character. 

 

5) Moghedian - Pivotal / Keep 

6) Mesanna - Pivotal / Keep 

 

7) Graendal - Great subplot, but could likely fold into someone else. Moghedien maybe? 

 

8)Asmodean - Teaches (you know who) but is it necessary that he does? He’s an interesting personality as well and has decent time on the page and could build intrigue on screen.
 

9) Bel’lal - Could likely fold into another character. 

Leave out: 

 

1) Sammael - He’s one of the only one’s I truly can’t think of an argument to keep. So, if I had to remove at least one it would be him.
 

2) Semirhage - Maybe fold into someone else or get rid of? I’m not sure.

 

3) Aginor Perhaps have their roles given to someone else? They are important though.

 

4) Balthamel -They too serve a purpose.

 

 

Excellent analysis and  I like most of it.  We need Asmodean, He is critical for the DR to develop his channeling skills.  Rahvin could certainly take over as the antagonist at the battle of Cairhen.  I would recommend they keep them all.  It is a way to keep score and know that our side is winning or whittling away the dead wood as Sammael says.

 

Another out of the box thought.  They could potentially pluck Lanfear from the pattern and thereby they wouldn't have to write Mo out of the script. I hope they don't but who can tell.  My mirror is cloudy on a good day.

[JaimAybara]

11 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Excellent analysis and  I like most of it.  We need Asmodean, He is critical for the DR to develop his channeling skills.  Rahvin could certainly take over as the antagonist at the battle of Cairhen.  I would recommend they keep them all.  It is a way to keep score and know that our side is winning or whittling away the dead wood as Sammael says.

 

Another out of the box thought.  They could potentially pluck Lanfear from the pattern and thereby they wouldn't have to write Mo out of the script. I hope they don't but who can tell.  My mirror is cloudy on a good day.

I totally want them to keep all of them, but I was concerned about characters not getting enough screen time for viewers to care about them, and I think that is already happening with main cast. So I think they will have to pair them down unfortunately or have the crew kill a few right off the bat. 
 

*afterthought, they could introduce them in the world of dreams with their secret meetings in a cold open too, this would give all of them screen time at the same time. Could be a clever way to build them up, as long and it isn’t the only way they build character development. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by JaimAybara

[fra85uk]

Technically Mazrim Taim ***spoiler*** ascended to a Chosen too.

I cannot imagine the show without him.

[JJLXL]

With the amount of hack and slash of plot lines we've seen so far, I can't see more then 3 to 4 making the cut. 

Lanfear is almost guaranteed. 

Ishamael for obvious reasons.

Asmodean (someone to teach Rand about Saidin)

Maybe Masanna for White Tower manipulations.  But if they include her, she'll likely be an amalgamation of Graendal and Moghedian too.

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

I think they need at least 1 significant foil for each main character.

Moiraine has Lanfear.

Egwene has Mesanna (

Spoiler

+ M'Hael

).

Nynaeve has Moghedian.

Mat (and several others) has Demandred.

Perrin has Graendal (

Spoiler

and Slayer

).

Rand gets Ishameal, Asmodean and at least one more (to "make the eight" that we saw as statues).

[Sabio]

Wonder if Slayer will even make the show.  

 

Rand has Samm also.

 

I hope they keep all 13, since some bite the dust rather quickly I don't see why it would be an issue to have them show up.  The show does like introducing someone for you to get involved with and then kill them by the end of the episode.

[DermidAjala]

8 feels like a good number to do some justice to.

 

A lot of them were basically useless failures anyway and I think they'll feel like a much more compelling villain group if they're not just getting dusted twice a season and we instead spend a bit more time fleshing others out.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Wonder if Slayer will even make the show.  

I think we will know when (if) the shadow prophesy of Fal Dara is revealed and they either keep or remove the verse starting "Luc came to the Mountains of Doom"

[Ralph]

I would be surprised if Slayer is in

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

I think we will know when (if) the shadow prophesy of Fal Dara is revealed and they either keep or remove the verse starting "Luc came to the Mountains of Doom"

We've heard about prophecy. But we've yet to see one explicitly. Wonder if that changes in E7?

 

[Spiritweaver1]

One of the interesting things about the books are when the Forsaken start getting recycled into new bodies.  In my initial reading I was counting body and it seemed that the light was making really good progress against the Forsaken.  Per the LOC prologue the DO says "Yet even I cannot save him (Rahvin) from balefire.  Even I cannot step outside time."  Then, in LOC up pop Aran'gar and Osan'gar who are the best bodies available in the borderlands per Shadar Haran.  Yikes what a plot twist.  Players back on the board. Now things go from looking good to looking hopeless if the bad can be recycled time and time again.  I truly hope this aspect gets decently done in the series because it is a true plot twist in a good way.

 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

I think that they should stick with a good looking number. I would prefer them to land on 7. 5 would be too few IMO. 

 

I think Rhavin, Mesaana, and Be'lal could be cut entirely. Sammael could be merged with Demandred (this composite character should keep Demandred's name). That leaves us with 9 Forsaken. 

 

I'd hate to be the person who has to decide who gets the axe beyond that, but I do think it will be necessary. 

[MasterAblar]

3 of them die instantly to be honest so the number isn't actually a big deal over so many seasons.

 

I'd argue the question is moreso would they want to have certain Forsaken have such a low impact while others are extremely important. Would that undercut the Forsaken's aura of danger and fear too much?