If You Could Balefire Three Storylines…..

[king of nowhere]

Actually, sevannah did a really good job of "gaming the system", twisting the technicality of the aiel traditions to her advantage. she also was so successful for a bunch of coincidences, starting with the bleakness and plenty of aiel coming to join the shaido just because they liked the alternatives even less. And surely some of the wise ones who disliked her didn't want to also start a civil war among the shaido at such a wrong time.

And even with all of that, she was losing them. wise ones were quietly trying to undermine her authority, and new potential clan chiefs were being sent to rhuidean. the brotherless were increasingly dissatisfied. sevannah would have eventually fallen, for sure.

 

that said, i also wouldn't mind seeing her storyline gone. she was just an obstacle to perrin, and little more. Masema could take her place. except that masema also could be removed easily enough.

 

But wait, let's see what kinds of plots do the other characters have after dumai wells, during the slog...

- mat is stuck in ebou dar

- rand is basically hiding the whole time

- elayne is stuck in the succession, and while i liked that plot, it could be greatly shortened. she spent a whole book just walking to caemlyn

- egwene is playing politics with the other aes sedai, again it could be greatly shortened

- nynaeve was with elayne, mostly doing nothing

 

seems to me all those storyline could be cut or shortened greatly. this way there's no more the problem of "what do we do with perrin?"

[Elder_Haman]

I suspect the timeline between Dumai's Wells and Natrin's Barrow will be condensed a bunch. The cleansing is in there, so that needs to happen. Mat's flight from Ebou Dar with Tuon. Egwene is kidnapped and taken to the Tower. I'd do Perrin rescuing Faile from Masema and Nynaeve/Elayne v. Moggy during this same time frame.

[Guire]

I like canning shaido after DW.  Masema as better expanded foil for Perrin is good.  I think Fain corrupting Masema, Elaida, possibly even Aram on screen would build some tension.  Also dump Strider.  I love him in books but some story lines have to go.  Make Fain Perrins main rival.  Possibly even have Perrin fighting zombie minions of Fain in Dreamworld. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Guire

[templar7]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:18 PM, Beidomon said:

Oh my God I’m changing my answer the top thing I’d Balefire is the last dozen posts or so. Good grief people it’s a work of fiction. Please give it a rest or start a new thread. 

Amen!!

[Guire]

So we know cuts will have to be made.  Given that it appears the showrunners want to focus on female characters a bit more, what arcs and characters can be cut that won't mess with continuity.  I hope they just remove entire cultural groups and rewrite to account for this or just give us brief glances of them without much explanation.

 

My preferred cuts would be Windfinders, most of Kin storyline, and  Andoran succession. 

 

Expansion of Egwene viewpoint( I think M. Madden is going to be one of the break out stars of this series), Moraine viewpoint, and hopefully Avhienda storyline would give us more female centered series.

 

Also I am using a lifeline to save Faile.  Fine with axing the kidnapping shaido sections.  Otherwise I love her.  

 

 

[flinn]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:57 PM, Fano'Lan Redux said:

He was not forced, he towered over Tylin and could quite easily have physically terminated her advancements at any point.

 

 Maybe you should do a re-read. At some point, after being starved, pressured, coerced, he physically grabbed her and told her that was enough... She put her knife to his throat, told him to take his hands off of her, told him I didnt want to do it this way but you leave me no choice, forced him back to the bed with a knife at his throat, cut his clothes off and later, after she was finished with him, planted her knife in his headboard as a reminder of who was in charge. You have to be kidding with the he could have stopped her.

[TheTuna450]

1. Elayne pregnancy plotline. Does nothing but hinder her in the climactic section of the story.
2. Mat/Tuon marriage. I would be fine with her being a love interest as of the end of the story, but the idea that Mat ends up essentially shackled to someone who's a staunch advocate for and propagator of slavery? Ugh. If they do keep the marriage, the series simply must really emphasize that she needs to meet him way over on his side of the middle.
3. Gawyn. He is not even remotely needed for the TV series and will only drag Egwene down.

[Guire]

6 hours ago, TheTuna450 said:

1. Elayne pregnancy plotline. Does nothing but hinder her in the climactic section of the story.
2. Mat/Tuon marriage. I would be fine with her being a love interest as of the end of the story, but the idea that Mat ends up essentially shackled to someone who's a staunch advocate for and propagator of slavery? Ugh. If they do keep the marriage, the series simply must really emphasize that she needs to meet him way over on his side of the middle.
3. Gawyn. He is not even remotely needed for the TV series and will only drag Egwene down.

Elayne pregnancy is great cut.  Lots of her storyline is actually ripe for cutting.

 

Mat/Toun is really good story arc.  Lots of changes would need to be made to get Mat as general of entire army at last battle if he isnt Prince of Ravens.  I always read this arc as Mat would eventually wear her down and Aes Sedai would become something different in Seanchan Empire.  Especially since Tuon could channel.

 

Either kill off Gawyn early or dont include him.  Might be interesting if Faile gets killed by Masema and grieving Perrin turns to old friend Egwene for comfort.  She bonds him.  When she dies he goes into mega wolf berserker rage and rampages through valley at Shayol Gul.

[TheTuna450]

12 hours ago, Guire said:

Elayne pregnancy is great cut.  Lots of her storyline is actually ripe for cutting.

 

Mat/Toun is really good story arc.  Lots of changes would need to be made to get Mat as general of entire army at last battle if he isnt Prince of Ravens.  I always read this arc as Mat would eventually wear her down and Aes Sedai would become something different in Seanchan Empire.  Especially since Tuon could channel.

 

Either kill off Gawyn early or dont include him.  Might be interesting if Faile gets killed by Masema and grieving Perrin turns to old friend Egwene for comfort.  She bonds him.  When she dies he goes into mega wolf berserker rage and rampages through valley at Shayol Gul.

I should clarify, I'm here for Mat and Tuon shenanigans. They have some fun storylines. I just don't want Mat and Tuon to end up married unless Tuon on the show develops far further than she does in the book.

[Elder_Haman]

48 minutes ago, TheTuna450 said:

I just don't want Mat and Tuon to end up married unless Tuon on the show develops far further than she does in the book.

Agreed. Tuon needs a clear finish. Either redeem her or definitively do not redeem her.

[JaimAybara]

1. Gawyn: After The Gambler beats him and Galad but before his love interest with a certain someone; unless they completely remove the nonsensical plot of him wanting to kill you know who... To be fair, he is so easy to dislike as a character it could also be a character worth having specifically so we can hate on him, but if they do keep him for the duration just make him actually likable and bond him earlier.

 

2. Aram: Either expand on his story like they are doing with Logain or get rid of him. He doesn’t serve much purpose. Maybe combine him with Lord Luc as a character because that would lead to an interesting twist for the long time readers.
 

3. Faile: Just her Shaido capture, I like her story outside of that. I even like Berelain because it highlights cultural differences on how women from different areas deal with relationships through custom etc; but I really liked her story in The Shadow Rising and getting the other folk from different parts of the Two Rivers like Watch Hill to try and deal with the trolloc invasion/the tension with Whitecloaks. Maybe instead have her be the one to rally the women folk in town to have an increased juxtaposition with Manetheren’s fall and rise? 

 

 

[Guire]

22 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

1. Gawyn: After The Gambler beats him and Galad but before his love interest with a certain someone; unless they completely remove the nonsensical plot of him wanting to kill you know who... To be fair, he is so easy to dislike as a character it could also be a character worth having specifically so we can hate on him, but if they do keep him for the duration just make him actually likable and bond him earlier.

 

2. Aram: Either expand on his story like they are doing with Logain or get rid of him. He doesn’t serve much purpose. Maybe combine him with Lord Luc as a character because that would lead to an interesting twist for the long time readers.
 

3. Faile: Just her Shaido capture, I like her story outside of that. I even like Berelain because it highlights cultural differences on how women from different areas deal with relationships through custom etc; but I really liked her story in The Shadow Rising and getting the other folk from different parts of the Two Rivers like Watch Hill to try and deal with the trolloc invasion/the tension with Whitecloaks. Maybe instead have her be the one to rally the women folk in town to have an increased juxtaposition with Manetheren’s fall and rise? 

 

 

Aram has been cast so expansion it is.  ?

 

[Elder_Haman]

13 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

Gawyn: After The Gambler beats him and Galad but before his love interest with a certain someone; unless they completely remove the nonsensical plot of him wanting to kill you know who... To be fair, he is so easy to dislike as a character it could also be a character worth having specifically so we can hate on him, but if they do keep him for the duration just make him actually likable and bond him earlier.

 

What about combining Galad and Gawyn? Sticks with the warders until Dumai's Wells, then - horrified by the carnage - wanders aimlessly for a bit before deciding he's going to the Whitecloaks. From there, Galad's arc. 

 

You keep all the good Morgase stuff, but get rid of the wanting to kill Rand for no real reason part and the chasing Egwene around like a little puppy part.

[JaimAybara]

Hmmm, I like it but I guess my only question would come back to Mat. That scene where he faces the two swordsman is so iconic and it would be irrevocably altered.

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

Hmmm, I like it but I guess my only question would come back to Mat. That scene where he faces the two swordsman is so iconic and it would be irrevocably altered.

Easy enough.  The combined G&G has a buddy.

[Elder_Haman]

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Easy enough.  The combined G&G has a buddy.

It would be hilarious if the buddy was just some whiny spoiled brat who chased Egwene around the Tower though. 

[dssharp]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:35 AM, Elder_Haman said:

 

What about combining Galad and Gawyn? Sticks with the warders until Dumai's Wells, then - horrified by the carnage - wanders aimlessly for a bit before deciding he's going to the Whitecloaks. From there, Galad's arc. 

 

You keep all the good Morgase stuff, but get rid of the wanting to kill Rand for no real reason part and the chasing Egwene around like a little puppy part.

Excellent idea! Or have him there and have him die much earlier to @up the stakes” of major character deaths. In that case probably make him more likeable?

[TheDreadReader]

On the Gawyn question...  Would your answer change if they cut a lot of the Shaido plotlines around the time of Dumei Wells and expand his character arc as the leader of the Tower forces?

 

I'm am just speculating there.  But, it does seem to be the kind of change that they might make for dramatic effect.

[Elder_Haman]

Maybe...

I already feel like the Shaido will be scrapped and Masema boosted. I'll need to see how season one spins out, to get a feel for the tone.

[JaimAybara]

But if the combined G&G has to have a buddy that is borderline blademaster worthy for the scene, why not just cut the dumb stuff from Gawyn, and shorten his screen time but keep him? I like the idea of killing him off earlier and giving Egwene more autonomy too, but the build up for Lan in the last battle with Gawyn and Galad is also quite profound. 

 

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

But if the combined G&G has to have a buddy that is borderline blademaster worthy for the scene, why not just cut the dumb stuff from Gawyn, and shorten his screen time but keep him? I like the idea of killing him off earlier and giving Egwene more autonomy too, but the build up for Lan in the last battle with Gawyn and Galad is also quite profound. 

 

I like the combined G&G character - let's call him Gobbledygook.  He can have a buddy he meets at the Tower that has incredible blade skills - let's call him Katana.  Gobbledygook and Katana lose to Mat in the yard training exercise.  Then Katana either gets killed in the Tower fighting (perhaps killed by Gobbledygook to create regret) or Katana goes on to found the Younglings himself - though I personally don't see the need for either Katana or the founding of the Younglings past the Tower fight...

 

Gobbledygook himself is very conflicted.  He killed his friend (Katana) and as a result joins the Children to make amends and, of course, because it is the right thing to do.  He is still infatuated with Egwene but cannot go to her because of his duty to the Children.  Then he also cannot fulfill his obligation to his sister, Elayne, as First Prince of the Sword, or whatever the title is, because of his obligations to the Children.

 

So Gobbledygook joins the Children after the Tower fighting.  He is conflicted between duty to Andor and the Whitecloaks.  His dreams are split between longing for Egwene and regret for killing Katana.  All the pressure is too much and he calls out Demandred at the Final Battle.

 

So does that help, or have I made it worse?  ?

Edited September 20, 2021 by DojoToad

[JaimAybara]

Haha thanks for going back and forth with me on this. This balefire plot lines has me in a twist! I totally think that could work, but why couldn’t that be Gawyn’s new fate? Would we even need a new character? Have Gawyn be on the opposite side of the tower revolt and face Galad who has to strike him down? That would be extremely drama filled and then Galad goes to joins the Children? But that would possibly prematurely impact how he interacts with Perrin too…and the way he views the world. Potentially.
 

And if Gawyn is cut after that regardless of it being him or Katana in the role, who would you replace for Gawyn in the Last Battle for the build up of significant blade masters before Lan faces Demandred? And what would cause the build up for Egwene? These are the two issues rather big balefire issues that pop up in the late game. This is what leads me to just get rid of the hate he has for Rand and be bonded to Egwene much earlier and go to Salidar. The fascination with the ability of the assassin rings as well as an obsession of protecting Egwene at all cost could potentially still be a great thing to adapt to the screen. 

[DaddyFinn]

I think it's understandable that Gawyn doesn't like Rand. Just tone it down a notch. Make Gawyn less childish.

Edited September 21, 2021 by DaddyFinn
Typo

[D Dub]

If they are going to keep Galad and Gawyn then I think they will need to change things, as they are both currently too stupid to be believable.

 

Both claim to love Egwene, and both claim to be willing to sacrifice themselves to protect Elayne (indeed, Gawyn's whole raison d'etre is to protect the Daughter Heir). However, Gawyn spends almost the entire series fighting for Elaida against the rebels, which include Egwene and Elayne.

 

Galad is even worse. He joins an organisation that would execute Egwene and Elayne if they ever had the opportunity. It's like a white person falling in love with a person of colour, and then joining the KKK!

 

Also, Gawyn's desire to kill the Dragon Reborn makes no sense, given that the 'love of his life' vouches for him, and doing so would doom everybody in the entire world.

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, D Dub said:

Galad is even worse. He joins an organisation that would execute Egwene and Elayne if they ever had the opportunity. It's like a white person falling in love with a person of colour, and then joining the KKK!

I think this oversimplifies. Galad is searching for purpose when he joins the Whitecloaks and he is motivated to do so because of the purity of their purpose. Basically, he doesn't understand how rotten they are, believing that they have a "few bad apples". Even before he becomes LCC, he influences the men under his command to actually do the right thing.