Which of the cast and crew concern you most?

[more rain]

Overall, I am cautiously optimistic about the series, this is not meant to be a thread of pre-emptive complaining, just checking to see who people feel most unsure about when it comes to cast and crew announced so far or maybe just your overall impressions.

 

Rafe Judkins (Showrunner) - Unfortunately, I do not love Rafe's previous work, though I know a lot of people liked Chuck and Agents of Shield. I really don't like either show and I tried to rewatch some episodes recently that I know Rafe wrote of both, and yeah, just can't do it. I think it's not so much Rafe, though, as just the set-up and method of both shows. The directing is also very pedestrian and it's all about plot, plot, plot when the plots aren't all that interesting, so I am not trying to hold Rafe responsible too much, and I do think this show could be a big step forward for him as a creative.

 

Don't really know enough about the other writers. They up and comers, I guess.

 

Josha Stradowski (Rand) - I am okay with this in theory. I do fear that he could be a new sort of Hayden-as-Anakin type deal from what I've seen of his acting clips, but I am hopeful that he will be given time to grow into the role slowly enough to own it as it becomes more involved. He's not very experienced but I think that's okay given how the role of Rand starts.

 

Barney Harris (Mat) - Only seen a bit of his work but I think this is a great bit of casting. Optimistic about this one.

 

Madeleine Madden (Egwene) - Love this casting. Love it. By far the most experienced of the young actors and I think she is gonna bring it. Most familiar with her from Picnic at Hanging Rock and the way she carries herself reminds me of Egwene, plus she has just a certain vivacity and spark in her eye that I think will work great for the part.

 

Zoe Robins (Nynaeve) - I will say that I am... concerned. I've watched clips of her from Power Rangers and I watched her 2 episodes of Shannara Chronicles. She is not bad, I don't want to diss her, but there's just a cheesiness to most of the projects she has been in that leaves me with questions about how convincing she can be in this particular role. Maybe her past roles just didn't do her many favors, I don't know.

 

Marcus Rutherford (Perrin) - On the surface I like the casting but I've only seen the trailer for Obey and the short film he did. Like Josha I hope Marcus has time to grow into the role as he is not very experienced.

 

Uta Briesewitz (Director of first 2 eps) - Here is a director that came up on peak TV (directed one of the best episodes of Westworld, for instance). With her background as a cinematographer she also has a keen visual eye. I really like her as the choice for a director to sort of "set the tone" for the series. Like the cinematographers Moxness and Luther, too.

 

Rosamund Pike (Moiraine) - What really needs to be said? A really good actress and a good fit for the part. Think the first season is gonna lean on her pretty hard.

 

Daniel Henney (Lan) - Love the idea of a Korean-Irish actor playing a Northerner/Borderlander and I like Henney's TV experience and physical presence... just wish he looked a tad bit older and that I'd seen him in a role with a disposition anything like Lan's.

 

Nick Dudman (special makeup FX) - One of the very best in the biz. Almost makes me wonder if Trollocs will be more prosthetics than CG?

 

Isis Mussenden (costume designer) - Another great crew member, perfect for this project with her background.

 

Karen Goulekas (visual FX supervisor) - Very experienced but she hasn't done a ton recently that would inspire a lot of confidence. But I think overall this is a good pick.

 

So I guess I would break it down that I am:

Very excited about Mussenden, Dudman, Pike, Briesewitz, and Madden 

Fairly optimistic about Harris, Henney, and Goulekas

Wait-and-see on Stradowski, Rutherford, most of the writers

Somewhat concerned about Judkins and Robins

 

What do y'all think?

Edited September 12, 2019 by more rain

[2RiversFan]

Wow, you've got a lot more insight into the crew than I've ever thought of digging into.  I knew of Rafe prior to this since I was a fan of Chuck when it was still being produced.  Agents of Shield, not so much.  I always felt they severely screwed it up, not reaching even one tenth of its potential.  I don't know how much of that should be put on Rafe's shoulders, but he was involved...

As far as the actors, I've only seen Rosamund and to a much smaller degree, Daniel.  I have no real bones to pick with these choices, even though these characters look very different in my minds eye when I'm reading the books.

For the Emonds Fielders, I am most happy that we got unknowns.  These are very likely going to be "make or break" roles for both the series and each of their careers, we can only hope that each will be able to give stellar performances, endearing themselves to the viewers.  Failing that, I think we'll not get more than a season or perhaps two before the show is cancelled.  This is going to be the most difficult for Zoe as Nyneave and for Barney as Mat.  First impressions in the books for these two were horrendous as RJ wrote them.  One was a prissy, know-it-all martinet, the other a lazy, no-good shirker.

[JJLXL]

Not overjoyed with Josha Stradowski as Rand.  I hope to be proven wrong. 

[Polskija]

I'm not concerned at all. 

I tend to rather have my expectations low and just try to enjoy tv-series as they are. 

[DragonFairy]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:33 AM, more rain said:

So I guess I would break it down that I am:

Very excited about Mussenden, Dudman, Pike, Briesewitz, and Madden 

Fairly optimistic about Harris, Henney, and Goulekas

Wait-and-see on Stradowski, Rutherford, most of the writers

Somewhat concerned about Judkins and Robins

 

What do y'all think?

Karen Valentine Hendry, who is the casting director, has an excellent reputation in the industry, so I'm trusting her to cast well. I would imagine they got input from Harriet and Brandon on casting as well. Your comparison of Josha to Hayden-as-Anakin is worrying. He really was bad. I was always amazed they casted him. Anyway, I'll have to watch more of his clips to see if I agree with your assessment. Have you ever watched Nae'blis on You Tube? He watched all the movies that Josha and Marcus did, and he is optimistic.

 

I am not at familiar with any of Rafe's work because the stuff he has done in the past is just not my cup of tea, but we do know he is a huge fan of WoT, so I that gives me some degree of confidence. Not to mention the consultants they have on board, Harriet and Brandon of course, Sarah Nakamura (who says she's read the series 30 times and whom Rafe has been unable to stump her even once with questions of details from the books), and Bryan Cogman, who wrote some of the best episodes of GoT.

 

I am very excited about Nick Dudman being on board. For those of who don't know his work, his is best known for Harry Potter and Star Wars, Penny Dreadful and the Joker in Batman.  There was a post on FB (which has since been removed) by someone who has a friend who is supposedly an extra for WoT. This person said they are using prosthetics for the trollocs, which is true, is exciting indeed! I think prosthetics would be far preferable to CGI for the trollocs, and why have someone as good as Dudman if they're gonna use CGI for all the shadow spawn.

 

Karen Goulakes has done some amazing visual effects work, The Day after Tomorrow for one. I am not concerned that she hasn't done anything recently. I think we'll see some awesome visual effects with her in charge, especially when it comes to battles with the Power. Rafe has said he wants the weaving of the One Power to look something like the magic in Dr. Strange, and although I couldn't find anything she's done like that, at least it has been done so it gives me great hope it won't be cheesy. Maybe they'll hire Thomas Wright as a visual effects consultant to help with that.

 

Isis Mussenden has won awards for her costuming. I would imagine WoT would be a costumers dream job!

 

I think we have lots of reasons to be optimistic!

[more rain]

Great input, thank you, DragonFairy! I hadn't heard that rumor about the Trollocs/prosthetics but it certainly does fit with my assumption based on Dudman's involvement, so that's cool.

 

And I have not seen nearly enough of Josha to really think it will be a Hayden/Anakin situation again. That was just sort of an inkling I got, but I think Josha seems like he might bring a bit more of a grounded take and I think the fact that that this is a TV show and the people who are making the show and will be guiding him... that makes a big difference. Like I said, a big factor is if he is given time to grow into the role. At worst, it could be like the guy who plays Archie in Riverdale... not the most interesting or nuanced performance, but adequate enough for what's required. But if we're lucky enough to get a Season 2 or 3, the role of Rand is going to get more complex, so Josha will have to step it up.

 

And I agree about Goulekas. I am more optimistic than not on her, I just think it is curious she hasn't done more stuff recently given her pedigree.

[more rain]

Also, the recent WotWednesday served as great, if very brief, affirmation of Pike and Harris in their roles!

[DragonFairy]

30 minutes ago, more rain said:

And I agree about Goulekas. I am more optimistic than not on her, I just think it is curious she hasn't done more stuff recently given her pedigree.

Could be she took a hiatus for real life stuff. I don't know how old she is but it's not unusual for women in show biz to take some time off to have kids.

30 minutes ago, more rain said:

Also, the recent WotWednesday served as great, if very brief, affirmation of Pike and Harris in their roles!

Oh, I know, they were absolutely awesome! Rosamund hit the ball out of the park, and Barney was so great. He seems to already have Mat down pat, the way he even slumped in his chair as he read his line. Could totally see him as Mat.

 

Plus there were the other nuggets, like seeing Michael McElhannon at the table. And then the black woman with the braids turns out to be Nanna Agyei Ampadu, and it has been suggested that the guy with the white hair and beard is Stuart Graham.

[more rain]

Oh, that's cool, I've been waiting for some more confirmations. Did not know about Nanna and Stuart.

[Faroresdragn]

Im really not good with names so Im not even going to try here:

 

I think Rand, looks alright, though not stellar.

 

Im really happy with the other two Taveren. Mat is IMO the most spot on casting they made, and Perrin is pretty great too, though, no offence to the guy, I really hope they make him hit the gym to bulk up before they start filming. That guys arms are waaaayy to thin to play a blacksmith who wields a giant axe or a hammer,

 

No super big concerns, though I do think its weird (Im sure this has been discussed elsewhere) that the two rivers, which is like 99% descended from Manetheren, and has been essentially geographically isolated for thousands of years, is so diverse. I mean it doesnt matter what skin tone it is but I figured even if Manetheren was originally more diverse, everyone in Emons Field (other than Rand obviously) would have "evened out" skintone wise from a thousand years of marrying only themselves. I couldnt see those thousand years producing both mat and egwene at the same time.

 

But thats a really small issue, and its mostly a headcanon argument.

 

I also really think Lans Actor fits perfectly with how I envisioned him, though Im not familiar with any of his other work. Overall Im optimistic with the choices.

 

Im still holding out for Sam Elliot as Thom though lol.

[Ryrin]

On 9/24/2019 at 3:30 AM, Polskija said:

I'm not concerned at all. 

I tend to rather have my expectations low and just try to enjoy tv-series as they are. 

 

Same here.

[Dagon Thyne]

trollocs need to be more CGI.  I mean, they are supposed to stand at about 8 to 10 feet.  

[David Taulbee]

My concern has nothing to do with casting honestly. I think the danger here is the infusion of today's politics and social poison into a series that was not designed to handle that kind of garbage. I don't want to be preached to about anything I want the simple and pure vision that Mr. Rigney envisioned for his magnum opus. Honestly if I start watching, which I will do regardless of what is said between here and release, and I get hit with some sort of preaching about someone's belief system that doesn't have anything to do with the books I will turn it off and inform my friends to not bother watching it. 

[mistborn82]

I don't you'll be watching then because while I doubt the change will be huge, I think they'll big enough for someone looking for things to hate.

[David Taulbee]

2 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

I don't you'll be watching then because while I doubt the change will be huge, I think they'll big enough for someone looking for things to hate.

 

Looking for things to hate? This is my favourite book series all I want is a true rendition of the books. I desperately want it to succeed. I understand there will be changes that is why I say rendition not exact copy. It is not asking much for people to leave their politics and social biases at the door in a project like this. There is only one thing I am allowed to hate and it isn't a TV show. 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, David Taulbee said:

 

Looking for things to hate? 

Look for, as in making things that aren't political, into a political issue. 'Cause showing anything, in any media, that isn't straight-christian-conservative is apparently pushing the LGBTQ+ SJW agenda.

 

People were up in arms over Dory and her Pipe Friend.. when there was nothing gay about their relationship. But that was pushing the gay SJW agenda?

Remember that time people were mad about the gay guy in the Beauty in the Beast? Oh my goodness, that was pushing the SJW agenda soo hard. /s

Or the latest crackpot theory about Toy Story 4, claiming Forky was trans. (Hint, Forky isn't)

Those are examples of times people whining about pushing SJW politics into media... when it wasn't.

If a single actor in this show doesn't act masculine enough, people are going to say it's pushing the gay agenda.
If they show anyone dancing or flirting with the same gender, it's pushing  the LGBTQ agenda.
If they show anything, or don't show something, people will claim they are pushing some kind of SJW agenda. 

Yet, I have this hunch, that if this show were to only push straight relationships, and only talk about conservative politics, those same people won't pipe up about politics being injected into the show. Funny right?

Edited October 30, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[David Taulbee]

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

people will claim they are pushing some kind of SJW agenda. 

 

Dude I never said one whit of whose agenda I wanted left at the door, you brought that up. I want them all left at the door, and the books to be held true to what is written.

[Carebear Sedai]

Every book that's ever published by a major pub house is written and (often heavily) edited with a certain audience in mind. The TV show's audience will be different than the book audience was in the 90s, hence the adaptation having to update the story to be suitable. It's not so much an agenda as a fact of producing marketable product, because at the end of the day, execs will have to make their money. 

[imlad]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:22 PM, DragonFairy said:

Karen Valentine Hendry, who is the casting director, has an excellent reputation in the industry, so I'm trusting her to cast well. I would imagine they got input from Harriet and Brandon on casting as well. Your comparison of Josha to Hayden-as-Anakin is worrying. He really was bad. I was always amazed they casted him. Anyway, I'll have to watch more of his clips to see if I agree with your assessment. Have you ever watched Nae'blis on You Tube? He watched all the movies that Josha and Marcus did, and he is optimistic.

....

I am very excited about Nick Dudman being on board. For those of who don't know his work, his is best known for Harry Potter and Star Wars, Penny Dreadful and the Joker in Batman.  There was a post on FB (which has since been removed) by someone who has a friend who is supposedly an extra for WoT. This person said they are using prosthetics for the trollocs, which is true, is exciting indeed! I think prosthetics would be far preferable to CGI for the trollocs, and why have someone as good as Dudman if they're gonna use CGI for all the shadow spawn.

 

 

I think I saw that Harriet had input on the casting, but I doubt she had veto or final say. And I think Brandon said he only got to see audition tapes or something. I might be misremembering. I do not at all blame Hayden Christianson for what he did with Anakin Skywalker. I believe he just worked with the script he was given, the little (read that as "no") directing he was given by Lucas, and the fact that they had no rehearsals. I've heard numerous critics and entertainment pundits say that Hayden has put in great performances in many other projects, so I don't doubt that he is a good actor, he just had crap to work with (including working opposite an actor, Natalie, who didn't even want to be there). Oh, and Nae'blis is awesome. If the series becomes as big of a hit as we all hope, his channel is going to explode and he'll dang near be a rockstar LOL. Poor poor Daniel...

 

I'm expecting a mix of practical and CGI for the Trollocs and especially on the Myrddraal. For the Fades the eyeless face would be practical makeup, but the cloak would be entirely a CG creation so that it only moves due to the movement of the actor. I've thought about this way to much (many nights laying in bed trying to fall asleep), and this is the only solution I can think of to keep the Fade's cloak from moving in response to the wind. Multiple Myrddraal would also require CGI; since all Fades look the identical they would all be played by the same actor (I really want Adrian Brody for this), and that would necessitate cloning him with a computer for shots of more than one. Large masses of Trollocs would be done in the computer instead of in the camera as well, that's cheaper and easier than making prosthetics and masks for dozens or more Trollocs. Wide shots of certain Trollocs, namely ones with highly non-human feet and legs, will have to be CG-ed to give them the appropriate legs (the actors would be wearing chromakey socks/boots).

 

On 10/25/2019 at 5:41 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

trollocs need to be more CGI.  I mean, they are supposed to stand at about 8 to 10 feet.  

 

That doesn't require CGI at all. Peter Jackson did that with the Hobbits and Gimli in The Lord of the Rings movies with just forced perspective alone, although they did build some special sets so that they could have moving cameras while doing this trick shot. Check out the special features on the DVD set of the Extended Edition of The Fellowship of the Ring to see and learn more. It might also be on YouTube by now, if NewLine hasn't had it taken down.

 

For really close up scenes, when the characters are literally face to face with Trollocs and forced perspective isn't an option, the stunt performers playing the Trollocs would be wearing some sort of stilts or be standing on appleboxes.

 

There are myriad tricks that they have come up with for this sort of thing over the years. You don't need a computer to do it. That said, as you can see from above, I do think CG should be used for some aspects of the Shadowspawn.

 

 

On 10/30/2019 at 12:11 PM, David Taulbee said:

 

Dude I never said one whit of whose agenda I wanted left at the door, you brought that up. I want them all left at the door, and the books to be held true to what is written.

 

I am hoping the show puts forward a feminist agenda, and is LGBT friendly. Rafe can throw as much of that first one in there as he wan-- What? Huh? Those are in the books? Oh! ? Okay... ?Yeah he can still push those agendas all he wants.

 

I hope David is fine with that. But if he stops watching, sad as that might be, that's just one person lost. Maybe a couple more, who know how many friends he has, and how many would have watched in the first place. I'm sure the show will survive that tragedy. 

 

And so far, the only people I have seen raising concerns about this show have been worrying about some sort of pro-gay agenda from Rafe because he's gay and the showrunner. I've literally seen some idiot on YouTube say they are worried Rafe's going to have two of the Emond's Field boys get together.

 

Basically, by bringing your baseless concern up, you outed your self (or at the least colored yourself) as someone frightened by the Progress and change our society has gone through over the past couple of decades when it comes to LGBT issues, as well as feminism. Doesn't matter if you are or not, that's the big ol' sticker you went and put on your forehead. 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by imlad

[David Taulbee]

3 hours ago, imlad said:

  that's the big ol' sticker you went and put on your forehead. 

 

 

You all want to assume. Fine, let me put it this way. The first red flag I saw was when Rafe said he was eliminating the relationship between Aviendha, Elayne, Min, and Rand. Not because I agree with polygamy but, because it varies drastically from the book and drops a major story line. As long as the writers can point to the books and say we stayed true to what Mr. Rigney wrote, then that is what I am calling for. 

 

Now for the sake of argument

The other side of this argument could just as easily get angry, and most likely would, since until Mr. Sanderson took over there was no "good" character portrayed as gay or there is also the fact that the entire series assumes peoples gender and uses only two genders.

 

You see my point is simple. Don't pander to anyone. As long as they can say we stuck to the books and only cut what we absolutely had to for time and consistency, then I am on their side.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

7 minutes ago, David Taulbee said:

You all want to assume. Fine, let me put it this way. The first red flag I saw was when Rafe said he was eliminating the relationship between Aviendha, Elayne, Min, and Rand. Not because I agree with polygamy but, because it varies drastically from the book and drops a major story line.

 

I fully expected that storyline to be dropped. I don't see that as a major story line. It doesn't really add much to the story, and requires time to develop three believable relationships in which three women agree to "share" Rand. I didn't think it was believable in the books and I think it will be even less believable in the adaption. 

 

This story is so vast that major story lines will be needed to be cut, changed, and/or merged with other story lines. It's just what is going to happen. It has to because you can't have people standing around having "info dump" conversations on how Rand's Ta'veren has ensnared three women to him. 

[SinisterDeath]

47 minutes ago, David Taulbee said:

The other side of this argument could just as easily get angry, and most likely would, since until Mr. Sanderson took over there was no "good" character portrayed as gay or there is also the fact that the entire series assumes peoples gender and uses only two genders.

New Spring, Pillow friends, written by RJ.

 

"Transgender"

Aran'gar. Man literally in a woman's body.

Also written by RJ.

 

As for concerns of Rand and his 3 Wives.

Quote

Polyamory (from Greek πολύ poly, "many, several", and Latin amor, "love") is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships with more than one partner, with the consent of all partners involved. It has been described as "consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy

So, it's basically a better version describing how Min Loves Rand, but Aviendah & Elayne love each other, as well as Rand.

 

19 hours ago, David Taulbee said:

 

Dude I never said one whit of whose agenda I wanted left at the door, you brought that up. I want them all left at the door, and the books to be held true to what is written.

20 hours ago, David Taulbee said:

It is not asking much for people to leave their politics and social biases at the door in a project like this. There is only one thing I am allowed to hate and it isn't a TV show. 

You didn't specify, but you clearly meant SJW. Beating around the bush.

Nothing presented about the show, about Rafe has had anyone complain his 'politics and social biases' and not use the word SJW to describe Rafe. I've never heard anyone accuse Rafe of trying to make the show too cis gender.

 

But you missed my point, and @imlad is taking it to far.
 

What I'm getting at, is that pretty much everyone who has complained about these so-called "politics or social biases" being injected into films, are finding things to get mad. They are looking for it.

 

Star Wars - Black Storm Trooper. Pink Haired Female Admiral

Dory - Gay dory and her Pipe Friend (They weren't gay, they were friends, that talked through a pipe)

Toy Story - Sporky is transgender because he's a spork. (No. Sporky is Sporky. If anything he's just suicidal)

Beauty and the Beast - Gay people. (Oh wow. They show the obvious gay guy dancing with the other obviously gay guy. Big Whoop.)

 

Those are all films in the last decade to get figuratively picketed/attacked by people, claiming that they are ruining their movies, their childhood, and children by injecting SJW/Gay/Transgender/Race Politics into films. 
 

Saying "The books to be held true to what is written" Is just a cop-out way of skirting around saying you don't want to see SJW politics injected into this show.
 

When I said

Quote

I have this hunch, that if this show were to only push straight relationships, and only talk about conservative politics, those same people won't pipe up about politics being injected into the show.

That's meant for anyone who's complaining about SJW Political agenda in their media. If you felt offended by that, I'm sorry, but it would seem I was right?

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[David Taulbee]

Ok got it a middle ground opinion is not welcome here Mr. Moderator and no matter what I say you all are simply going to assume what is in your mind the worst and apply stereotypes where convenient. You all have a wonderful day.

[mistborn82]

To politely disagree @SinisterDeathbut Aran'Gar really isn't an appropriate example of transgender, I personally don't think, as that was done as a joke by the DO. Also he/she was depicted as a pervert as a man or woman

[SinisterDeath]

22 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

To politely disagree @SinisterDeathbut Aran'Gar really isn't an appropriate example of transgender, I personally don't think, as that was done as a joke by the DO. Also he/she was depicted as a pervert as a man or woman

*Shrugs*

I never said it had to be a good or appropriate  example of transgender, the guy's a villain after all.
It's a literal interpretation as Aran'Gar is a Man in a Woman's body that identifies as Male.