question about the forsaken

[sunking]

In book 11 moridin gave very specific directions that rand wasnt suppose to be touched but that he wanted everyone to kill mat and perrin. What do you think is going to happen? We all know the forsaken dont take orders that well unless its from the big man downstairs.

[Ilyena]

I don't think they will listen to these orders. I mean, Mesanna is Shadair's Pet, Moridin already controls Cyndane and Moggy, Semi's captured (for going against the orders) Demandred's still hidding somewhere, A-Gar's run away from the rebels, and Graen's in big trouble in Arad. None of them have the time to be hunting the boys, no matter what they've been ordered. They're all on the retreat, and Ive got the feeling we're about to see a mass meeting of disgruntled forsaken at Shayol Gul.

[Paxam]

I think Morrie just want to beat on Rand himself. I think it's another ego thing.

[Luckers]

Keep in mind the arrow someone shot at Perrin and that Mat was in hiding... someone seems to be at least making a token effort.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't think they will listen to these orders. I mean' date=' Mesanna is Shadair's Pet, Moridin already controls Cyndane and Moggy, Semi's captured (for going against the orders) Demandred's still hidding somewhere, A-Gar's run away from the rebels, and Graen's in big trouble in Arad. None of them have the time to be hunting the boys, no matter what they've been ordered. They're all on the retreat, and Ive got the feeling we're about to see a mass meeting of disgruntled forsaken at Shayol Gul.[/quote']

 

It sure looks that way, doesn't it? Yet the more recent stuff I've seen from Jordan talks about what bad shape the Light is in. How disorganized all the good guys are, and how we haven't begun to see all the tricks the Dark has up their sleeves.

 

Almost makes you wonder if we're reading the same books he's writing.

[warder18]

Luckers makes a good point about Perrin being shot with the arrow and i also suspect that the attack on Mat just outside the hell was another assassination attempt, too many unanswered questions brought up before and after the fight, plus it just has that feel to it, the way the woman wouldn't run when Mat gave her the chance, acting like running away would be a worse fate.

[kittydesmond]

We cant forget that all the evidence points to the fact that the gholum is still hot on mats trail too...

[Teslan]

Semi's captured (for going against the orders) .

 

Explain?

[Luckers]

Yeah, semi's capture was never influenced by moridin. And additionally she wasn't breaking orders, because she was trying to capture him, not kill him.

 

Also, good catch warder, i'd forgotten about the hell thing, and i definately agree that it looked more like a hit then a robbery gone bad.

[Siswaiaman]

What will happen to morridin when Rand dies? will he feel a reverberation because of the balefire link? Possibly a seperation akin to the warder bond death?

[Luckers]

Some of us think that that bond will be how rand lives after death, that he and moridin will swap bodies through it, and alivia will kill moridin in rands bodies. A full explanation of this is in another thread somewhere.

[Fryn]

My guess about why the light is in such a bad shape is because while forces are everywhere ready for the Last Battle, all of the forces aren't united at all. And in many cases also disarrayed against each other as much as against teh shadow.

 

The White tower is not only split 3 ways but everything points to the seanchan attacking and collaring many of the sisters (From Egwene's dreams to Min's vision's). Even those 3 factions are fractured even more. Taim has also let red's bond even more men which will likely start another mess between Rand and the tower.

 

Rand's main force is being set up near Arad Domain. Yet at the same time Ituralde has lured the seachan out of tarabon and leading right to Rand's forces. So likely there will be another engagement there. All of which was started by Grandeal.

 

The Black Tower itself has almost turned into a dreadlord training camp. The red and black tiles suggest it is under Mordin's influence.

 

The borderlander's are out to make a mess of things and my guess it will be a close run thing if Lan's army is able to stop the flow of Shadowspawn at all.

 

Basically every army except for those with Mat and Perrin are ready to fight each other not the shadow. Rand and the Asha'man haven't learned compasion yet which seems to be as important as all the armies. All the Aes Sedai are still trying to find a way to control Rand.

 

So I can see how things could look bad for the good side. Especially since we have no clue what half of the forsaken have been up to.

[Luckers]

There is more sinister evidence of the dark's control then just the tiles... im talking of the fact that Taim has assumed Sammaels sigil. No, i dont think anyone is really controlling Taim.

[Arawn Telamon]

 

I was thinking about how RJ says that the light isn't in good shape and that the Dark One is winning. What we have been reading in the last couple of books is what RJ wants us to read. What we really have to do is read what he hasn't been telling us or what he casually slips in somewhere. Reading between the lines on what RJ hasn't told us, the Shadow has had ample time to build a force of colossal size. They are throwing 10 000 trollocs about like that amount is nothing. Although when i continue to think about that attack on Rand at the manor. It almost has the feel of a test. As if it was testing Rand and his small force to see how they would do.

 

Re-reading some of the books awhile ago i remember Borderlanders or someone talking about the blight and how far it has retreated. When you think about it, isn't it the best way to confuse or mislead your opponent by pretending to be wounded or dead? Look at what it has done to the bordlands. They had started skirmishes with each other over land in the middle of the books which if i remember hadn't occured since before the trolloc wars. And now a borderland army of ALL 4 NATIONS as moved south away from the border WHICH they have sworn to guard and protect. Literally the Light has no defence at the moment from a sudden invasion by the Shadows forces. Unless Rand can quickly sent his army to the borderlands but that makes him facing the borderlands and his army with the seanchan attacking his back.

The tower wouldn't be able to send support against the invasion because they are too busy fussing over there own problems to look beyond what is happening outside the tower around Randland.

But then there is al'Lan with his army. Army? Has there been enough time for people to follow him? To hear that he has risen the Golden Crane apart from Nyn and her exploits. I doubt there is more than 1000 even half of that amount. How can he face a trolloc army which has a ratio of 1000 to 1?

 

These figures are extreme but that is one of the ultimate possibilities. From where i am standing the Light is in no condition to face the Shadow. No where NEAR ready for the last battle.

[Siswaiaman]

Taim HAS to be a darkfriend, what u mean luckers? In aWH, the renegade ashaman put taim right under the great lord, and besides hes been channeling fro ten years with no madness.

 

Ii would disagree that the black tower is a training camp for dreadlords, i think that Taim's faction is still a minority; and that at some point during aMoL, Logain will retake the tower, and kill the dreadlords.

[Teslan]

Taim HAS to be a darkfriend' date=' what u mean luckers? [/quote']

 

Well, let us not forget when he says

 

'Let the lord of chaos rule'

 

I think that is a hint to his persuasion....

 

We all know that taim is really ashmodean anyway :P

[Leafburner]

I liked Arawn's thoughts about RJ's art of misdirection. Let's not forget that throughout the entire series the followers of the Light have been plagued by Darkfriends hiding among them. Imagine what is going to happen when those Darkfriends don’t have to hide any longer. I suspect we will be seeing a great many of our beloved and “loyal†characters show their true colours and cause immense problems for Rand and the Light in general.

 

I do not agree that Semirhage was disobeying orders and I do not believe she ever intended to capture or kill Rand. I believe her intention all along was to be captured. Rand did nothing, she could have killed him if she had wanted to. By getting close to Rand she may be able to learn the whereabouts of Mat and Perrin or more likely play some intense mind games with Rand and his consorts.

 

I believe the assassination attempts on Mat and Perrin were a direct result of the orders Moridin gave to the other Foresaken. They were poor attempts to be sure, but I would only expect them to get worse.

[Shai-tan]

I believe Bashere might have turned...

[Luckers]

Siswai'aman, i did not mean to say that Taim was not a darkfriend, indeed i believe he has been raised to the level of Forsaken. What i meant is that he isn't under anyones thumb. He's playing his own game, and i think proof of that is in the attack on Rand in Tear with the trollocs.

[Jedimuppet]

Taim HAS to be a darkfriend' date=' what u mean luckers? In aWH, the renegade ashaman put taim right under the great lord, and besides hes been channeling fro ten years with no madness.

 

Ii would disagree that the black tower is a training camp for dreadlords, i think that Taim's faction is still a minority; and that at some point during aMoL, Logain will retake the tower, and kill the dreadlords.[/quote']

 

Doesn't Logain mention that if the BT split most would be loyal to Taim because they've mostly never seen Rand? Some will follow Logain, but Taim leads the bulk, not Rand...watch out.

J

[alCal]

I believe Bashere might have turned...

I hope not! He's the coolest guy in the books 8)

[Luckers]

Actually from the look of things i think most would follow Logain, aside from Taims special ones.

[Morrielle]

Taim may be a new Dreadlord, but Forsaken? I doubt it.

 

Also when the BT splits, not if...when. When it splits Logain will have the majority and I doubt that Taim or even most of his camp will die. Most likely they will flee before they can be taken. Live to fight another day and all that.

 

Also Lan's armies will be HUGE! The Golden Crane flying again? It might even draw away the Borderland armies that are encompassing Andor's Northern borders. Could be bad for Elayne, but she'll make due without. Besides we'll need those men in the Borderlands when the Trolloc armies start pouring through every nook and cranny of the "retreating" blight.

[Luckers]

There is a lot of evidence for taims assension. The use of a direct quote of the dark ones that only forsaken have used to date, the use of a forsakens sigil, specifically sammael, and then later someone with the mark of a forsaken pretending to be sammael to send a hundred thousand trollocs to attack rand--which is very much more in taims style, then demandred or anyone of the AOL's. And finally the precedent of alviarin getting something like a chosen mark, though weaker. Taim is much stronger then alviarin, and has done much more in the service of the dark, and finally was most likely trained by forsaken, so the DO can trust that he has an AOL level training, something RJ said he missed the lack of in the BA