A New Thread for the Jordan/Sanderson comparison

[szilard]

Well, Hunter and LP, you are very funny, Especially LP ("I personally really enjoyed the last three books, more than RJ's last 9."). Please, raise the bar.

[LapisPharaoh]

Lol, I understand why people wouldn't like BS. I just meant RJ was getting really stale in his writing and dragging on with boring and plots. BS came in an increased the pace of the books and rounded up the books in a quite satisfactory way, maybe better than RJ could have...

[Kesiera_Sedai]

Lol, I understand why people wouldn't like BS. I just meant RJ was getting really stale in his writing and dragging on with boring and plots. BS came in an increased the pace of the books and rounded up the books in a quite satisfactory way, maybe better than RJ could have...

I disagree, simply because he made 3 books out of what RJ had only intended to be 1...RJ definitely had started dragging out the plot, but apparently the last book was supposed to be really action-packed

[dexterryu]

 

Lol, I understand why people wouldn't like BS. I just meant RJ was getting really stale in his writing and dragging on with boring and plots. BS came in an increased the pace of the books and rounded up the books in a quite satisfactory way, maybe better than RJ could have...

I disagree, simply because he made 3 books out of what RJ had only intended to be 1...RJ definitely had started dragging out the plot, but apparently the last book was supposed to be really action-packed

 

 

Just going by the foreshadowing that was fulfilled in TGS and TOM, I'm not sure how it would all have fit into one book and include the Last Battle. Now, you could definitely make an argument for TGS and TOM being streamlined into one book, but you could say that about several books in the series.

[BFG]

At the moment this is a catch all thread for comparison between the authors and whether it would have been possible to combine the final 3 books into 1 book

[szilard]

I do not think that we need another thread about that again.

By the way, members of our club told me that new Sanderson promo on reddit (in 'books' or whatever its name is) was a big disaster, because every second poster criticized Sanderson's prose, characters etc. I was told that many of his fans were schocked by this because in the fantasy section they worship him as GOD. (I will peek into the reddit comments tomorrow, I hope the mods will not delete the negative posts by then.)
 

[BFG]

I just want to keep the discussion out of other threads, especially with the risk of spoilers to people who are still reading

[Kesiera_Sedai]

 

 

Lol, I understand why people wouldn't like BS. I just meant RJ was getting really stale in his writing and dragging on with boring and plots. BS came in an increased the pace of the books and rounded up the books in a quite satisfactory way, maybe better than RJ could have...

I disagree, simply because he made 3 books out of what RJ had only intended to be 1...RJ definitely had started dragging out the plot, but apparently the last book was supposed to be really action-packed

Just going by the foreshadowing that was fulfilled in TGS and TOM, I'm not sure how it would all have fit into one book and include the Last Battle. Now, you could definitely make an argument for TGS and TOM being streamlined into one book, but you could say that about several books in the series.

 

 

I remember RJ being quoted as saying it was gonna be 1 book even if Tor Books had to invent a new way of binding the books or if it had to have it's own library cart, lol

[dexterryu]

 

 

 

Lol, I understand why people wouldn't like BS. I just meant RJ was getting really stale in his writing and dragging on with boring and plots. BS came in an increased the pace of the books and rounded up the books in a quite satisfactory way, maybe better than RJ could have...

I disagree, simply because he made 3 books out of what RJ had only intended to be 1...RJ definitely had started dragging out the plot, but apparently the last book was supposed to be really action-packed

Just going by the foreshadowing that was fulfilled in TGS and TOM, I'm not sure how it would all have fit into one book and include the Last Battle. Now, you could definitely make an argument for TGS and TOM being streamlined into one book, but you could say that about several books in the series.

 

 

I remember RJ being quoted as saying it was gonna be 1 book even if Tor Books had to invent a new way of binding the books or if it had to have it's own library cart, lol

 

 

Actually, what I think would be a great thing to do with ebooks would be to re-release a new edit of the entire series as a single giant chronologically re-chaptered e-book. While the first several books would be pretty much unchanged, their are several timeline overlaps covered in different books. While their is the obvious Tam/Perrin timeline confusion in ToM, it could also smooth out things like dumai's well's which had already concluded in book 6 but was rehashed in book 7. Same with the cleansing... it had already happened when Egwene and the AS were sensing it. 

 

As for RJ vs BS, I like and dislike both authors for different reasons. RJ had a much better talent with subtlety and I did a better job of making the characters feel real. BS had a much better overall pace of storytelling but his version of the characters all seemed a little too upbeat. Rand after VoG felt a little too much like Kelsier (if you've read Mistborn). RJ had a lot of over description (skirt straitening, etc...) and pacing later on in the series.

[Eldrick312379]

Sanderson did an amazing job with The Gathering Storm and getting the series on track to its conclusion.  Most of the harsh criticism of Sanderson is just ridiculous and mean-spirited.  Sanderson did a great job with an almost impossible task.

[muddasssir]

I guess it is natural that people who has not waited or these books for years and have not done multiple rereads will find bs more likable. You see for most of us old timers wanted the story to have world building and depth in both characters and plot. Maybe, newer readers just want instant gratification. however, you have to remember that this is fantasy not a comic book.

[Eldrick312379]

I am a long-time, multiple-readthrough-of-the-series fan, and I thought Sanderson was incredible.  AMOL wasn't exactly what I wanted it to be, but Sanderson deserves a huge amount of credit.  RJ had gone completely off track for several books.  I put The Gathering Storm up there with the best in the series.

[muddasssir]

I m sorry but you must be an alias o bs

[Eldrick312379]

It's not bs at all. Lots of long-time fans appreciate the good work that Sanderson did on the series. That's just a fact.

[TheSociopath]

I'll admit that on my second and third read through a lot of the Sanderson chapters just felt a little off, particularly the Mat PoVs.

[muddasssir]

can someone second? Eldrick you are the only self claimed long time fan as I said an alias or bs

[Guest]

I started reading the Wheel of Time back in 1991. To me, the WoT is the best fantasy series of ALL time and Robert Jordan is my most favorite author. In my opinion, Brandon Sanderson did a good job in writing the final 3 books of the series. I was mostly satisfied with TGS, ToM, and AMOL.

[wotfan4472]

can someone second? Eldrick you are the only self claimed long time fan as I said an alias or bs

I second the long time fan. I am a long time fan myself and I love the last three books, especially when you finish AMOL and read TEOTW immediately. The foreshsdowing and quotes of the prophecies litteraly cover the last book. Brilliant foreshadowing in my opinion

[Eldrick312379]

Well that looks like a "second" and a "third" to me! The Sanderson bashing on Dragonmount used to be terrible. I understand if you don't like his style as much, but some of it got really personal and was incredibly unfair. The arguments weren't very well though-out either beyond "he's not RJ".

[kinswoman]

B. Sanderson did a fine job of finishing the series. His writing was refreshingly economical, the action moved more certainly. I noticed a couple of weak spots but they were minor. Jordan had some trouble taming his enormous vision. The depth of the story is quite impressive. Yet Jordon plodded on about details that could have been written more expeditiously. He took the writing rule of "show don't tell" to a whole new level. There were rare times that Jordon used summary and they were always climactic moments where summary was the wrong thing to do. It was frustrating to have summary of Rand doing something major, after wading through 100's of pages of extensive detail about minor characters and important yet still minor settings. If Jordan had more time, some more revisioning would have weeded out some of this. I began reading the series 20 years ago, could not finish it as the books came out b/c I forgot so much of the story line and characters. So I reread the entire series recently which was quite a chore but worth it. Reading everything back to back made it clear the story line was entirely intact from one book to the next, which is better than most series authors accomplish. I'm really glad Sanderson was able to step in and finish this series rather than have it incomplete. It takes a competent writer with a strong understanding of the original writers vision to be able to do the justice that Sanderson did in concluding the story. There are some things I would have liked to see done a little different, like the absolute last chapter. I'd have liked to see more of that rather than the summary we had. Still, Sanderson concluded the plot points fairly well and did a great job of writing the actions, and kept the story moving along at an engaging pace. I have questions about minor things that were not made clear. It seems there is room for more with the way the story ended. I loved it. I love Jordan's vision and am grateful Sanderson was able to complete it.

[JamesBrown]

Well put. Thanks, kinswoman.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

As a creative person (I perform, study and compose music) I can't imagine being put in the situation Sanderson was put in.  He was asked to finish someones master work.  Not only that, but it was someone who he respected and was part of the reason why he became a writer.  That is a scary place to be in.

 

I think Sanderson ended the series well.  It wasn't the same style as Jordan, but I think expecting that isn't necessarily great.  Sanderson had his own style and was chosen for that reason.  He finished it the best he could and overall, I thought he did it well.

 

@kinswoman - I think the last chapter was actually written by Jordan

[Agitel]

I do love Sanderson's original works, and I'm very happy that he was able to step in and dedicate so much time and effort into wrapping up the series for Jordan, going well-beyond what was originally agreed to in order to do it. And certainly stepping into someone else's massive epic fantasy and having to tie it up is no easy task, and near impossible and one I imagine most authors would balk at, and one that absolutely no one could do perfectly. And, for whatever reason, I think there were problems in the editing (and I do not pin the blame on any one person), particularly with Towers of Midnight. Still, I definitely enjoyed reading the ending. It was not a bad experience. In fact, it was wonderful. You can tell that Sanderson did love the series. So, with all that said...

 

I would have preferred that Jordan got to finish the series. Jordan's prose is stronger, Jordan's dialogue is stronger, Jordan's handling of multiple plot lines (particularly since they were his own) is more adept. Knife of Dreams proved that Jordan still had it in him, and I was never as bogged down by PoD or CoT the way others were, nor did I think they went off track. I think the closing would have been better under Jordan, if only because it would be more true to rest of the series.

 

I mean no disrespect towards Sanderson, and I truly appreciate that he made his contribution. I'm a big fan of Elantris, Warbreaker, Mistborn, and Stormlight Archives. He is incredibly creative and unique in his works and magical systems and world building. In fact, his writing style very much fits with the way I think when writing (not that I could write as well as him). I'd probably have even more experience with his other works if I still read as much fantasy as I used to (though I am still following Mistborn and Stormlight Archives). 

[TheSociopath]

I think that BS did do a good job finishing it.

I would have liked to have an even more complete world...

 

But, I don't think BS could realistically meet those expectations, without making fans who wanted a more complete world even angrier 

 

Also, I'm a new reader that didn't have to wait for the books to come out. Not all newer readers want "Instant Gratification" .

[dexterryu]

I'm also one that thing BS did as good a job could have been expected. People forget that we'd be complaining about certain aspects had RJ not passed and completed the series (there are/were plenty of complaints about lots of things). 

 

My issues with BS are less about content and more about tone, and this mostly comes to light in AMoL... where the characters were a little too upbeat and optimistic whereas RJ they were more realists and concerned about their fates. AMoL Rand to me read like Kelsier, who was very much an optimist.