7 minutes ago, DWink84 said:

hijacked by sjw ideology

Examples?

5 minutes ago, RitualM said:

7 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

 

Nor once in this show do they mention Ta'veren it doesn't exist.

Other than within the first 5 minutes of the very first episode, you mean. 

22 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

People trash the writing and direction of this show because it is D-Tier amateurish and the source material deserves better.  If the books were just “Twilight”-level schlock maybe more of us would be willing to roll over and praise whatever they are shoveling but many of us expect better for a higher-tier work of literature.  We wanted  Lord of the Rings and we were given Rings of Power.   Nobody is here to change your mind or to say that you can’t enjoy the show but we have every right to be critical and to argue back against complacency.

Nobody is claiming otherwise. My statement was simply parroting the surface level statement that it quoted. My statement was not conducive to discussion. The statement it quoted was not conducive to discussion. Neither is the constant repetition of your opinion (always couched as fact) that the show is "D-Tier amateurish" "'Twilight'-level schlock".

10 minutes ago, RitualM said:

I truly do not understand why people are defending the writing and direction of this show. 

I get that some of you are blindly happy that a wheel of time show is being made but this show is wheel of time in name only. It's so far removed from the text that it's hardly recognizable to me. So many missed opportunities and significant events, characters and information are left out that it's more of a fan fiction than an adaptation at this point. The direction is so poor, the writing so lazy.

The blatant disregard to the vision and themes of the original text is an insult to Jordan's lagecy in my eyes.

I truly do not understand why people are trashing the writing and direction of this show. I get that some of you are consumed by rage that the show isn't a shot for shot adaptation of the source material but the books are still there for you to read if you want to. You don't even have to watch the show, much less come onto fan sites and complain about it. The complaints you raise have been made ad nauseum since the first trailer was released and no one is changing their mind based on your repeated claims that Jordan has been insulted.

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

Logic.  Logic is objective and is a crucial element of storytelling and world building.  This show suffers so, so much from logical inconsistency and and internal inconsistency.

Logic is objective? Classical logic, perhaps. But most of what people refer to these days as “logic” has nothing to do with classical logic and is simply a shortcut for “makes sense to me.”

Moreover, evaluating a show where magic exists using classical logic is a fruitless exercise given that “magic” can fill in gaps. 
 

But what are a few examples of these logical and internal inconsistencies that this show “suffers so much from”?

8 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

That simply isn’t how objectivity works.  It is by its very nature not comparative.  If my son comes home with a D on a math test it doesn’t matter if he got the highest grade in the class or of there is an example of a kid who did better.  What matters is that he did not perform well with an objective standard.

Right. Because math has truly objective metrics. There is a right answer.

The only truly objective thing about writing is grammar. But using poor grammar doesn’t necessarily make for bad writing (see William Faulkner for example). 

4 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

But why?  Then it is no longer objective but comparative.  Objectivity isn’t a bell curve.  WoT might be the best fantasy in TV right now (because RoP sucks and I haven’t seen House of the Dragon) but that doesn’t change a more objective analysis.

Because you can pick apart the writing of any show in a similar fashion. If you want to label something as “objectively bad” there must be something that is “objectively good” against which to measure it. 

3 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I actually think there are good examples within the WoT adaptation itself, where there is very good writing to contrast against the poor writing when it happens. 

 

I am quite repetitive about what I think has been good about the show so forgive me for repeating myself. But good writing, in my opinion:

 

- Introduction of the Whitecloaks in S1. An Aes Sedai tied to the stake, her hands chopped off, highlighting their brutality, and danger to Aes Sedai (being a magic wielder isn't a protection here). The entire scene sets Valda up in terms of his motivations, the type of character he is etc. Later in that episode we worry for our heroes as they meet the Whitecloaks on the road, is this monster with them? Are they all like him? But this leader seems more civil - until Valda appears. It's tense. Aes Sedai cannot lie, what if he asks them directly? The way he creeps around her, Lan restraining himself. Moiraine's answers, dancing around the truth. It's all really well done - set up of the Whitecloaks (Valda in particular), some worldbuiling (the Aes Sedai are not universally respected), payoff in the very same episode, paid off again further in the series when he captures Egwene and Perrin - as a villain he works because of his introduction, and that's good writing. The final payoff in S1 with Valda doesn't necessarily work for me, it's a little weaker than the rest of the writing - Perrin should have broken free/showed the "wolf within" more than just his eyes. It would have made Valda's reappearance and seeing Perrin again land a lot more effectively in S2 imo. 

 

Bad writing:

- Nynaeve and Elayne capturing the sul'dam. It sets up them helping Egwene escape, and also sets up something about the a'dam that should shake the foundations of Seanchan society. It goes absolutely nowhere within S2 - no payoff for the discovery, no payoff for either Nynaeve or Elayne in capturing the sul'dam, they learn little to nothing (that is shown in the finale), and Egwene just frees herself and discovers the same thing they did regarding the a'dam anyway. Functionally within the series, Elayne and Nynaeve capturing the sul'dam serves absolutely zero purpose. And that is poor writing for a TV show or film. If a scene or action does not serve any wider purpose to the story or characters, it's simply poor writing. 

I absolutely agree that the writing is up and down in this series. There are definitely some very weak parts and some very strong parts. 

Keep in mind that, having been planned for multiple seasons, some of the plot points that “didn’t go anywhere” or “didn’t pay off” may get more attention in future seasons. 

16 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

The bottom line, though, is that writing/story/script can absolutely be analyzed objectively - and separately from subjective enjoyment- for things like logical consistency, lore consistency, character consistency, setup and payoff, etc.

Sure. But if you are going to make the claim that “this show has objectively poor writing” then you need to provide examples of “objectively good writing” and explain how WoT fails in comparison. 
 

Further, if you want to compare apples to apples, you need to compare WoT against other fantasy television and demonstrate how WoT fails to measure up to those other properties in the categories you mentioned (logical consistency, lore consistency, etc.)

On 10/12/2023 at 9:11 PM, books of Robert Jordan said:

 

S1 had 537.

Decrease after decrease after decrease, no wonder that Amazon did not come forth any big statement or press release.

This didn't age well.

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Hopefully Rosamund Pike doesn't try to block any kind of nominations for Madeleine Madden on this episode or Zoë Robins a few episodes ago, or even Kate Fleetwood...

Why would she? Would seem to undermine her own chances in the future.

7 minutes ago, Ralph said:

https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

 

up a lot as we predicted. and this is only 18-24 so only two days after ep 6 aired 

 

 

This is fantastic news! I suspect the numbers will continue to climb through the end of the season.

5 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Maybe it was salty language but i don't see it as ad hominem attack.

It's calling him a "disgrace" and the call for black listing that will get me riled up as a mod.

1 minute ago, RitualM said:

What do you mean again? There was no first time....

Again, meaning that I have said this on the forum several times. Not necessarily directed at you personally.

3 minutes ago, RitualM said:

Overall their choices have been a disgrace to the original text. Raf should be black listed from ever working on fantasy again.

Again. Please stop with the ad hominem attacks. Posts with this type of language will be flagged moving forward. If you can't express your opinion without this level of vitriol, please find somewhere else to post.

18 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

I would love to see an unhinged Lanfear take out Liandrin 

It would be super fun if Egwene somehow used the Mask of Mirrors (?) to make Lanfear think she was killing Eggy instead and the whole time Liandrin didn't understand why Lanfear was going all Glenn Close on her.

Just now, Yamezt said:

Please fold your arms under your well-toned hunky pectorals, dudes.

Umm, did you miss all the references to "well-turned calves"?

Anecdotal, I know, but I'm seeing far more articles about WoT from the "nerd sites" than I did following S1. Speaks to a more engaged audience, IMO.

55 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

specially with a patient who's in pain, squirming, and screaming in your ear every time you touch it.

Elayne seemed pretty calm and composed throughout. 

4 minutes ago, Samt said:

I think BS was hesitant to put too much of his own ideas into something like Verin or Fain since they were clearly characters and plot arcs that RJ had already created.  BS wanted to finish them as he thought RJ would have finished them.  And when he didn't know he left it vague and arguably undeveloped.  

 

With Androl, he was creating something that was mostly his own.  And while he felt that it fit into the universe and didn't break the lore or plot, he also didn't feel that he had any sort of duty to do it the way that RJ intended.  

Exactly. What I remember him saying (and could be misremembering) was that when he felt like he was getting stuck with other stuff, he could always return to Androl. It was sort of his security blanket.

4 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Creativity in terms of something new that hadn't had RJ's direct hand in; it's a big difference, as I understand it, to create from scratch, versus playing with someone else's toys.

IIRC, in an interview he did long ago, BS explained that creating Androl was what allowed him to finish the books because it was something he could always come back to when lost.

1 minute ago, DreadLord31 said:

BS’s involvement and role has never been clear to me.

I think his role is "lend credibility to the show by including one of the authors as a producer guy." And ... that's about it.

1 minute ago, DreadLord31 said:

I don’t know; but from BS’s comments - I think Ishy is dead/gone (and I dislike that decision)

I just don't think they are going to telegraph his return, even for people who have read the books. They're gonna want to keep that one in their back pockets. So even if BS has read Rafe's treatment for all 8 seasons (which I'm not so sure about), I don't think he would spoil the surprise.

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

actors have the decision power to change the plot?

Not necessarily to change the plot, but often to change the dialogue, or the way a scene is blocked or shot. 

Just now, Ralph said:

 

If like the books will be Asmo

Yeah. Gotta think it will be Asmo.