22 minutes ago, Babbus said:

Sure, you can be dismissive and put words in my mouth.

I didn't. You said: 

22 hours ago, Babbus said:

it seems the convo is replete with people determined to find and to have good things to say.

...which lead to my comment that you seem genuinely upset by the fact that someone might have good things to say about the show. Which you then reinforce...

25 minutes ago, Babbus said:

they've decided to support it and like it regardless. It needs their support, the way they see it, so they're finding good things to say. Most of the praise, in my opinion, seems shallow and forced.

So in your view, it is impossible for someone to genuinely enjoy the show. They have to search to find good things to say in order to bolster their own private desire to see the show completed.

But, it is not impossible. I genuinely enjoy the show (although there were some moments of cringe in S1 that I wish hadn't been there). I especially enjoyed season 2 (which you haven't bothered to watch, but still want us to pay attention to your opinion), where the writing started to elevate to match the performances of the actors.

Anyway, you're not interested in having a conversation about the series, just in bashing it. So I'll be on my way. 

23 minutes ago, Babbus said:

it seems the convo is replete with people determined to find and to have good things to say.

Oh no! Not people who have good things to say! Anything but that!

3 hours ago, Highcommander said:

I speculate they will scrap the show at some point. Likely sooner than later, its costing them money and viewership is tanking as more and more fans of the books become discouraged. 

Has viewership “tanked”? I don’t think that’s true. Season 2 was well received compared to season 1. 

3 hours ago, Highcommander said:

 

^ 100% this. The show is an absolute dumpster fire. There are the basic casting issues, character changes, plot deviations, condensed storytelling, visual representations, and so-on. Fans EXPECTED these. Still as BAD as these make the show feel to fans, nothing compares to the 3 major sins the show commits:

 

1. Tone and Atmosphere - The world-building / themes / depth / detail that is so loved in the books really make the show feel "unalive" by comparison.  The closest I can describe it is as if the visual direction was decided by people who heard about the books 3rd or 4th hand. Gone are beloved locations that feel real... places that conjure instant mental imagery. Places like Caemlyn, Andor, Cairhien, Falme, Tear, Tar Valon, Far Madding. If they exist in the show, they just feel like a set, unalive and unimportant. Gone is the struggle between light and shadow. Gone are the concepts of fate and free will. Gone is the struggle of power and the burden of leadership. All replaced with what? Nothing of substance, so why was the decision to remove them made?

 

2. Character development doesn't exist anymore - The books were so full of character development that every chapter had something to look forward to. Coming of Age of the central characters of Emond's Field played a huge role, buried by the show. Evolution through Adversity, especially for Rand wielding an immense burden is gone; leaving Rand look uninteresting and mostly unlikeable by the viewer. The interpersonal relationships are all "off" so badly, they give literal cringe vibes while watching. Friendships, romances, rivalries... they are all wrong every last one of them. There are no self-discovery and identity anymore... instead of quests, grappling with identities and destines, we are given exposition dumps and lazy "it just works that way" style story telling.  This deep and dynamic developments are the reason the book series resonates so profoundly with its readers. It is the reason the show so profoundly misses the mark. 

 

3. The broken lore - The rich and detailed mythology that Robert Jordan created carried the book series. The show goes beyond simplifying or overlook these elements, it directly attacks that lore. It is everywhere you look... the Dragon vrs. The Dragon Reborn. Lews Therin Telamon. Artur Hawkwing... The Heroes of the Horn. Someshta, the Green Man, the blight... its all just a slap in the face. It's almost as if the show was written as differently as possible from the books so that WoT fans would be upset with it rather than just say it was "average." Perhaps, "unwatchable bad" was what they were going for. 

I’m sorry you dislike it so much. Obviously, your feelings are not shared by everyone here. 

26 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I do miss Ta'veren Tees

Yeah. 

Just now, Jaccsen said:

I just go back to the fact that the show seems dead.

…

Even here the forums are quiet.

It certainly doesn’t have a place in the zeitgeist the way GoT did. 
 

At the same time, we are 6 months out from the end of season 2 and probably a year away from the start of season 3. 
 

It’s like the time between the NFL draft and the start of training camps. Just not much to talk about. 

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Probably because 'The Man in the High Castle' ran until 2019 and it is still getting Nielsen ratings 5 years later.  There is something to be said for staying power - or lack thereof...

  

But it's really hard to gauge any of that in the age of streaming. For example, "The Boys" isn't on that list. Are we pretending that's not a huge show for Amazon? What about "Mrs. Maisel"? How many of the minutes "Man in the High Castle" is getting right now are from people who were steered to it by the algorithm because they watched another show in the same genre and because there's nothing out there right this minute that is hitting that spot? 

My wife was one of those people who binged "Suits" randomly, years after it dropped. We still go back and rewatch our favorites too. 

I'm not trying to say WoT is some sort of mega hit. Clearly it isn't. But at the same time, it's hard to read much into things dropping on and off of the Nielsen list when they aren't running. It may pop back onto the list a few months from now.

1 minute ago, Mailman said:

Yes, although the quality has been very low in recent times. Far too much interference by studio heads into stories and some incredibly poor writing rooms is leading the industry down.

 

If you watch the video i posted its very hard to argue against anything in it. Personally i could only get through 3 episodes before i found Fallout unbearable.

What are some of your favorites?

On 5/10/2024 at 11:38 PM, Mailman said:

Fallout can teach WoT nothing it is very poor despite some good acting from Goggins and Purnell.

 

Beyond stupid characters making dumb decisions and huge plot holes. Maximus is a total joke of a character who is constantly failing upwards.

 

 

 

 

Are there any shows you actually like? 

5 hours ago, books of Robert Jordan said:

[final post; the numbers of the last months/years are very telling, especially the lack of them]

 

Nielsen, April 01 – 07

 

 

 

Why is a lack of Nielsen ratings 8 months after the series aired “telling”? 

6 minutes ago, henrywho said:

My final statement, anyone who has read the books and believes the TV series is an acceptable adaptation of the books is NOT a fan of the books and is in desperate need of psychological evaluation.

This is absurd. You don't get to judge whether someone else is a fan. 

On 5/4/2024 at 1:35 AM, Maximillion said:

By the way - the fact that Sanderson is talking like that suggests that this show is cooked and we've seen the last of it after season 3.

What leads you to that conclusion? Sanderson has been calling it like he saw it from day one. These statements don't particularly stand out as ominous in any way.

1 hour ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

changes such as apparently combining Semirhage and Moggie into one character (that looks like what they have done?)

This is interesting speculation... Why do you think that? [As an aside, I have to say one of the things they've done very right is the villains. They've been great.]

1 hour ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

On the more general topic, I think there are clear differences between,

• changes such as Moiraine being the star, with many changes to enlarge and deepen her role which were very much chosen a priori
• changes such as Perrin killing his wife to try explain his motivations in story (which can also easily be broken in visual nuggets for the "Previously on" preamble), which are trying to tell the same story in a better way for TV or the runtime they have
• changes such as apparently combining Semirhage and Moggie into one character (that looks like what they have done?) to condense the story, or combining the ashagarai and dagger into a light sabre which also serves as a plot device (note, some of these may be better than others, but I'll leave that up to the individual to decide)
• changes such as the blight due to budget and priority of screen time
• changes forced by actors not being available or covid, or other issues.

This is spot on.  

16 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

There it is again. Directs insults of ignorance and then the tired gatekeeping argument that gets trotted out to malign anyone who disagrees with the elites who want to tell you what you should like.

Let’s not pretend that insults and gatekeeping are exclusive to one side or the other of this argument.  

4 minutes ago, Samt said:

Everything of any complexity is more complicated than the masses think.  True mastery is making difficult things look effortless.  If you have to start explaining why it was so hard, you know you failed.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. I’m not speaking in generalities. People are arguing that the writers are bad and that it’s easy to write a story that hews closer to the original. Those people vastly underestimate the complexity of the task. 
 

That’s not some sort of cop out. It’s the truth. 

1 minute ago, Samt said:

44 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

So you are arguing that it would be literally impossible for a more faithful adaptation to be made?

Come on, man! That’s not at all what’s being said. The claim here is that it’s more complicated than the masses think it is. 
 

Is it possible to write a more faithful adaptation? Of course. But these are scripts by committee. There are myriad different tensions and agendas at work. And there are power dynamics that make it impossible to say no to bad ideas. 
 

So ultimately, the idea that you can just “put the book on film” is just naive. Is this a good way to create great art? No. It’s awful. But it’s what we’ve got. 

On 4/28/2024 at 8:19 AM, SinisterDeath said:

That said, it's a leap to claim to know that Harriet hates the show because she's not saying enough about it online. Anyone that's been around for any length of time knows that Harriet doesn't make a lot of public statements.

This is my point. The burden is on people who are claiming that Harriet secretly hates the show to prove those claims. Just saying, “she’s got an NDA” isn’t proof of anything. 

28 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

The argument that people are either not smart enough or not "educated" to the realities of TV writing is a bit insulting.

Is it more or less insulting than the argument that the showrunner and writers hate Robert Jordan and are intentionally trying to ruin the story to push a political agenda?

31 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I'm concerned about the lack of news about season 4. if they want to air a season before greenlighting the next one, they won't be able to launch more than one season every 2 years. which is way too slow

Yeah. Hoping to have some S4 news soon. 

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

they are still filming?

No. They wrapped awhile back. I’m guessing season 3 will drop next spring. 

49 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

Moraine losing her powers did nothing for the show.

I think it was a pretty powerful depiction of what losing the power feels like. Setting up as a point of comparison for actual stilling, which we’ve yet to see. It also gave the viewers a true sense of the level of Moiraine’s dedication. 
 

I can understand why people feel like it was underwhelming or boring, but I do think it contributed to the show. 

45 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

 

To be fair, I think that is the implication and most contracts do carry those types of clauses to prevent people from damaging the product. 

So Harriet has that in her contract, but Brandon does not? 

6 hours ago, henrywho said:

You are not reading or not understanding.

I am reading. In context. 
By all means, explain how your comments about Harriet’s contract has anything to do with the conversation unless you’re trying to say that it prevents her from offering criticism. 
 

As for the motte and bailey style of argument, look it up. 

3 hours ago, henrywho said:

You need to go back and slowly read the original posts. Keep them in context and then read my responses.

Don't try and read between my lines, there is nothing there, I type upfront nothing hidden. Slow down, preferably stop, the knee jerk reactions. read only what I type, don't put words or thoughts that are not there in my mouth/typing. I'm reading what you are typing and responding to that. Please do the same for me.

I read what you typed. Words have no meaning if they are devoid of context. I’m not going to play the motte and bailey game where you come out making an argument that heavily implies something, then retreat to “but I didn’t actually say that” when you’re called out on the implication. 
 

If you weren’t trying to argue that Harriet is contractually bound to refrain from criticizing the show, fine. Then your posts are meaningless observations, irrelevant to the conversation at hand. You can’t have it both ways. 

6 hours ago, henrywho said:

At no stage did I say that. READ what is written.

You heavily implied it. I pointed out that Harriet’s involvement in the series suggests that she doesn’t find it to be some sort of abomination that insults her husband’s legacy.
 

You responded that her public comments were tepid and then brought up her contractual obligations to Amazon. What difference does the existence of those obligations make to your argument if not to imply that they preclude her from making negative statements about the show?

Why talk about how difficult it would be to get her name removed from the project if not to imply that she is forbidden to do so by way of contract?