[Advanced] Salem Mafia - GAME OVER - MAFIA WIN

[dicetosser1]

shad i suggest you reread that entire quote 

[Shad_]

*blink*

 

That makes coherent sense now.  I don't know what I was seeing before.

 

I don't agree with it but yeah, I definitely misread it the first two times around.

[Shad_]

@ Seph, I can do that. I'm on mobile still but hold me to it tonight.

 

Ok, doing this and going to bed.

[Shad_]

 

 

#170 -- kicks things off with a rather feisty vote on Hallia

 

#187 -- asks her opinion on Lily

 

#240 -- asks Lily if she's done anything game related yet

 

#241 -- says he found Hallia's response generic, doesn't take anything away from it

 

#249 -- I say we're lynching Thane today but we can look elsewhere in the meantime, again a kind of feisty response with a vote on Lily

 

~~I like the sort of playfulness to him tbh. Not afraid of perception even though he knows he's not being as engaged as usual. I agree Lily's slot was fishy, he didn't challenge my Thane case but he didn't just blind roll with it either, put some pressure on another concerning slot.

 

#286 --

Not sure what to make of Thane's AtE but isn't immediately buying it. ~~ +1

Dumbfounded reaction to Lily's return to the thread. ~~ +1

 

#287 -- Wants to know why his switch to Lily bothered me. ~~ It didn't, and I never said it did. Weird thing to assume. -1?

 

#288 -- Sees me react to Lily the same way he did in #286 and says we should lynch her. ~~ No attempt to make a show of conviction, just rolling with his read. I think he'd be more concerned with town as a whole believing he has strong reasons if he's scum, whether it's to not look as bad after a town flip or to capitalize on a bus. Instead I'm seeing a 'hey Shad and I are on the same page here, we're probably on to something, let's do it' attitude.

 

#293 -- Explains why he's been different this game. It makes sense.

 

#297 -- Asks if he can sheep me. ~~ Not something I ever remember Z doing before, maybe further grounds to suspect Survivor, but again I can't help but think scum!Z would be a bit more inclined to try and fake effort.

 

#299 -- Says he noticed two things about Thane: the AtE post, which he's not sure what to make of, and role talk, but this is a no-vanilla game. ~~Meh. I would have liked to see more here.

 

#304 -- Quotes a bunch of Lily posts and says we should lynch her. ~~Doesn't even feel the need to explain himself. I love this post because I totally get where he's coming from.

 

#346 -- Tells Thane he's being awkward, needs to make some reads. ~~ +1

 

#347 -- Agrees with Hallia about feeling better about Turin.

 

#348 -- Dice said there are people he doesn't want to lynch, asks who.

 

#358 -- Asks me why I should give a sub a chance in Lily's slot, wants to know why I think Thane's the better lynch of the two. ~~ -1. I made it incredibly clear why I think Thane's the best lynch today. I'm not sure what the point of asking this is. On the other hand it seems kind of risky for scum to straight up say 'why should we bother listening to the sub?' If it's a scum move it's certainly bold. Strikes me as more likely to stem from real conviction.

 

#371 -- "She's gotta die. I mean Ive seen Lily's Town game, this is not it. Like seriously look at her content and her vote on Turin, really tho. Its awful dude." ~~I kind of love this post. The whole 'this is so bad I don't even need to explain myself' attitude he's persisted with is hard to disagree with and, again, not a line I would expect him to take as scum.

 

#373 -- Acknowledges she was sick but her play was still awful. ~~ +1

 

#378 -- Calls Seph's vote on him OMGUS ~~My reaction to the vote was similar~~ doesn't overreact about it and asks for Seph's thoughts on Turin.

 

#385 -- Hard to summarize but I like this post.

 

#420 -- "Me and Shad seeing eye to eye makes me feel good about him." ~~ Goes both ways.

 

#421 -- Didn't understand Dice's argument for Lily not being SK ~~ So maybe I'm not crazy for misreading it twice.

 

 

 

No, rereading Zander makes me feel better about him than I already had. I'm puzzled, maybe a bit irritated, that he didn't engage my case on Thane more thoroughly, but the mindmeld has been real. I don't think he's scum. Survivor is still a possibility. I guess that makes SK a possibility too? I got it in my head at some point that he wasn't SK, and I'm not sure where that came from now, so I'll have to think about it, but I just feel good about him. I dunno. SK doesn't want to draw mafia's attention too much. SK doesn't know who the mafia are. We have the same suspects. He's probably not SK.

 

If anything this Zander reminds me of his early posts in Supernatural, when everyone was sussing him and I (with the benefit of spoilers) was shouting in DT that it was the most obvious villa Z I'd ever seen. Not the same--he was still a lot more engaged in that game--but the closest comparison. The same attitude.

[Eldrick4221]

Vote counts

 

Zander (2) - BFG, seph

Thane (1) - Shad

Dice (1) - Turin

 

Not voting: Everyone else.

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to start the Voting Phase.

 

Day 1 Ends on Sunday at 5pm (Arizona time)

 

 

[Shad_]

Tomorrow we're having Ollie's birthday and I'll be watching the last round of the Masters (GOLF! *@&$ YES!), Monday I fully intend to devote all of my free time to a game elsewhere, so I'll be a little sparse for the next ~48 hours. I think I'll be able to keep up but probably won't be digging too deep into anything.

 

DL is in 18 hours. I'll make a point to check in.

 

This is hammer, not hybrid.

 

We should probably just lynch Thane.

[Thane Vakarian]

I should probably just let you do that, just to show you (and players in general) that relying on meta is stupid and that every player should be read the way he or she plays in the current game.

 

I came into this game with a bold statement, which is something i never do without a reason, and I'll stick with what I read from that. Shad, Turin, Zander prolly not town.

[Zander?]

I should probably just let you do that, just to show you (and players in general) that relying on meta is stupid and that every player should be read the way he or she plays in the current game.

 

I came into this game with a bold statement, which is something i never do without a reason, and I'll stick with what I read from that. Shad, Turin, Zander prolly not town.

 

No progression and still using the AtE, Im not a fan.

 

Whats the bold statement and what was the purpose behind it.

 

I wanna see what quote you use and an explanation for it cause I dont really get it.

 

I dont see myself voting anywhere but you or Lily tbqh.

[Eldrick4221]

 

I should probably just let you do that, just to show you (and players in general) that relying on meta is stupid and that every player should be read the way he or she plays in the current game.

 

I came into this game with a bold statement, which is something i never do without a reason, and I'll stick with what I read from that. Shad, Turin, Zander prolly not town.

No progression and still using the AtE, Im not a fan.

 

Whats the bold statement and what was the purpose behind it.

 

I wanna see what quote you use and an explanation for it cause I dont really get it.

 

I dont see myself voting anywhere but you or seph tbqh.

FTFY

 

:P

[Turin Turambar]

[unvote]

Dice:

I still disagree about the likelihood of a frame kill. I just don't think they happen very often.

 

I'm not sure I follow exactly but I think I need to have another look around today.

 

I will do.my best but have caught English cold so kinda wiped out at present.

[Eldrick4221]

 

Vote counts

 

Zander (2) - BFG, seph

Thane (1) - Shad

 

Not voting: Everyone else.

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to start the Voting Phase.

 

Day 1 Ends on Sunday at 5pm (Arizona time)

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

thoughts:

 

Can neutral party win with town? If so, did the read Sili as wolf and wanted to eliminate him for faster victory?

Do they think it'll be easier to eliminate town, seeing there's just a few players here and current odds are 4-2-2? Or 4-4, if you count both neutral and mafia as non-town.

 

tbh, i don't know the neutral party wincon... but here's to hoping they would like to go with town. 

 

Dunno what to make of the whispering in general.... i find it.. odd... 

 

Why did Darthe and Sili get killed? I have no idea. I posted my theory for Sili... but, yeah. Blank on Darthe. He's a strong player, but can't really figure out for sure why he'd be dead. ofcourse no coroner means any role he had could be fakeclaimed by mafia, so.... there's that.

 

 

Have you looked at the neutral role win cons yet? So you know a SK can't win with town. Only the survivor I think can actually. some can only win solo and some can only win with not town. So current state with that in mind is

 

Best case: 6 t(counting survivor as town) /2m/ 0 SK (if it was Darthe)

 

Worst case: 4t/ 3 m (witch trying to win with mafia) 1 SK

 

I'm not sure why you are confident of a reason for a Sili kill but blank on Darthe.

 

Finally, what do you think of Dice and his stance on the Sili kill and what it means about Seph?

 

So, I've been thinking long and hard here. I'll put this short

 

Why on earth would it be so strange that I actually do something different for once? I remember that game when Zander changed and it was harder to read him than before. 

 

As I have said: I can be quite important for town. And NO Turin, i didn't claim anything else than town. 

 

Dice and Seph get the general idea best. They read what I type here, and don't worry about my approach.

 

BFG stated that I did change my style before to avoid meta. It's true. Hence why i took another way into the game this time. 

 

Here's what I think: The way Shad has reacted to my statement and how he's treating it since.... i haven't frozen, i'm just too damn frustrated that you people (in general) rely way too much on meta to get a read on someone.

 

By reactions to what I have done, I actually think that Shad and Turin might be non-town. Other possibility would be Zander imo. Leaves one more non-town i haven't figured out yet. Well, figured out is a big statement, I'm just trying to find the baddies here.

 

If you still think that I'm a wolf based on my play... then go ahead, lynch me. You'll find out that I haven't been lying. I can indeed be important to town, depending on several factors.

 

That'll be all. I might or might not check back before DL, it's weekend after all.

 

About changing styles, why would you want to.make yourself harder to read? I would think that if your town you want to.make yourself easier to read as town. Especially since you have stated a history of being mislynched and not Followed.

 

It just reads weird. Right now the emo is the only thing making me doubt. I can't tell if it is an attempt at levelling.

[Thane Vakarian]

AtE? Emo? Nah, I'm just a bit fed up here. I'm not gonna claim any role i have yet, seeing i'm not close to being lynched at this point.

 

Zander: you should know the statement I made, seeing that's where the entire thing is going on about.

 

Turin: Haven't read the wincons for the neutral team.  But, seeing they're 'neutral', i assumed they could win with both.

[Shad_]

I should probably just let you do that, just to show you (and players in general) that relying on meta is stupid and that every player should be read the way he or she plays in the current game.

 

I came into this game with a bold statement, which is something i never do without a reason, and I'll stick with what I read from that. Shad, Turin, Zander prolly not town.

Seems to me you came in trying to explain the night kills in a way that was clearly not well thought out and doesn't reflect a towny thought process. Dial in the shot and then explain to town why it makes someone else look bad is a move I see scum do all the time. It's a dumb move, but it's a temptation scum fall for anyway because they want to capitalize on their night kills and get overeager. After all, if you present it softly enough you won't take too much heat if people don't like it and you can back away.

 

Wrong. It's something I'm going to call out and make an issue of. Intentionally changing your meta is a cheese excuse, and where was your conviction before I made this a talking point and called for your lynch?

[Shad_]

11 hours and I'm not going to be around for most of them. I think no lynch is a bad idea and I'll switch to someone else if I have to to get it done, but you all know who I want to lynch.

[BFG]

Thane - I don't care about change of style, I want you to explain why you think Shad would draw attention over Darthe/Sili/Zander/Turin - when in the last few games Zander/Turin have been drawing N1 kills pretty frequently. What are your thoughts on the rest of the game outside of NA? What is it you don't like about Shad/Turin reactions?

[Turin Turambar]

AtE? Emo? Nah, I'm just a bit fed up here. I'm not gonna claim any role i have yet, seeing i'm not close to being lynched at this point.

 

Zander: you should know the statement I made, seeing that's where the entire thing is going on about.

 

Turin: Haven't read the wincons for the neutral team. But, seeing they're 'neutral', i assumed they could win with both.

The last bit reads false. How can you determine motivation for actions if you don't know their wincon? Especially since not all the roles work like in "normal" mafia.

 

Have you ever played this game on the website? I haven't so maybe that is why I needed to learn about them. Or I'm a nerd.

 

Probably both.

[BFG]

 

 

I have a modest expectation for BFG.

 

I should be in and out all day. Hopefully things pick up here a bit.

Only modest? :(

 

That was specific. You voted Zander without explanation. You tend to call me out when I don't comment on this sort of thing, and I didn't.

 

So yeah, 'modest'. That might still be an overstatement tbf. :P

 

Heh, other people brought it up pretty quickly

[BFG]

 

 

 

now  as to lily

 

I ve had to change my mind when i realised that Darthe was the mafia kill. I was thinking sili was and thought that too obvious  so thought it was setting lily up.

 

 

3 man solve?

 

not not not you other then that i got nothing at this point   possibly not lily

 

 

 

Is that really all you <Lily> have to comment on so far? 

 

mindmeld

 

 

 

@turin   that number 1 u asked if i answered?  i answered Zander because i said i had a thought but i didnt answer that comment of hallys cause i thought it was aimed at zander

 

the frame idea

 i had sili v lily in mind  didnt even realise darthe had commented on her. i still think her being framed is possible cause they killed DARTHE. they couldnt know that sili would die and killing darthe and leaving sili alive would mean more pressure on lily

 

 

does that make sense?

 

 

im not liking lilys play at all but i dont think shes the SK  and as i said my frame idea largely went out the window when i realised it was Darthe. 

 

I do think it still unlikely she is mafia cause like i said  mafia didnt kill the person howling for her lynch and couldnt know hed die

 

 

 

The cavalry has arrived

 

slaps seph upside the back of the head

 

welcome back. 

 

Now get over to the Band and sign roll call then get back here and convince me why u shouldnt be lynched.

 

 

 

 

[v] Dice[/v]

 

That above post rings all kinds of wrong. You didn't want to lynch Lily when it was her slot but now that Seph joins (welcome Seph BTW) and has started to actually do the work people were looking for from that slot you are telling him to show why he shouldn't be lynched?

 

He is already on the way there IMO.

 

*inb4 you say you aren't voting him. it is your tone that is wrong here.

 

Out for a bit. Having a walk about Leeds.

 

what have i been saying about lily?? that i dont want to lynch her AT THIS TIME. I  even said in an earlier answer to Zander i think it was that if i had to id lynch her today    but i dont want too today

 

then theres the fact that people have been wanting to lynch lily so seph NEEDS to convince people why he shouldnt be lynched. including me.

 

 

 

Dice can you explain how you go from thinking Lily isn't mafia because you thought mafia killed Sili to 'set her up' to thinking Lily isn't mafia because mafia didn't kill Lily Sili?

 

Can you explain why you think an SK might not take the same approach (set someone up)?

 

 

ok  so we have all probably seen this in the past   mafia kill the loudest voice in the game trying to get someone NOT mafia lynched in order to frame that somebody with the added bonus of shutting up the loudest voice.

 

so thats what i thought happened   until i realised 2 things. A it wasnt the mafia kill. and B that the SK did not try to kill sili.

 

After all sili was loud and likely to get someone lynched  the sk WANTS bodies on the floor as long as its not the sks. taking out a loud person who is likely to get a lynch is more hinderance then help

 

so basically  lily is not the sk imo  she MIGHT be mafia but honestly that hasnt really been shown yet...she had so little thread presence that it would have basically been lynching an inactive

 

Lol, I used the wrong name (fixed in original quote).

 

I have no difficulty following you on the first part, in the second bolded blue I quoted you say Lily isn't mafia because mafia didn't kill Sili. Whereas you started off by saying that you thought Lily wasn't mafia because the mafia killed Sili as a frame job. This is two different interpretations of the night actions, yet you don't have a strong town read of Lily to go with it.

 

I can see both arguments independent of each other, but I struggle to see one person thinking both.

 

What's your read on Seph now?

[BFG]

Zander, ignoring me is not going to make me go away

 

What's your read on Hallia?

 

What's your read on Seph?

 

Why are you ignoring me?

 

Shad - technically your points on Zander are 'right', but Zander is making no attempt to explain the case on Lily/Seph, his read hasn't seemed to progress past Lily even though Seph is being relatively active, he's ignoring votes on him. You say he's reminding you of SN, but in SN he was passionate about pursuing his case, this time he's just posting quotes and saying 'lynch her', there's no effort to explain Why. in SN he was working with people in order to get them to work with him to lynch Sooh. I don't see any of that this game

[BFG]

hane, most importantly you have 3 suspects, why aren't you voting any of them?

[Hallia]

Morning all.

 

 

Ohhh.  This BFG, I like it.

 

Not seeing from Thane anything that makes me change my mind sadly, and it's not even about meta.

 

Vote: Thane

[Thane Vakarian]

@BFG: wouldn't do much good voting anybody else than me. I think we all know who's going to bite the dust. And I already know that when i do, i'll get 'he should have played better' comments. But, really, I can't be bothered by it.

 

I'll answer just the question, why Darthe and not Shad? Darthe NK would have been too obvious. That he's janitored doesn't help. Shad'd be smart enough for that play imo.  

[Thane Vakarian]

I'll probably laugh myself to death if Shad flips wolf or other non-town, seriously

[Thane Vakarian]

I'm pondering whispering to someone, but.... It'd be possible that I reveal too much info in that whisper to a potential non-townie.... it's a dilemma...