the Hunt for the Dragon Reborn [Standard Mafia] Game Over town wins

[dicetosser1]

 

 

Sooh...i dont think you really think Ive cleared Cory....

 

Are you doing that thing that wolves do by just saying things for the sake of saying them?

 

Zander, you posted his name in blue next to yours. Now if that's a joke then just say so and I'll let it go. For everyone: 

So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.

 

Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.

 

Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?

 

It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others. 

 

 

Sooh you know I love you.

 

Sooh its pretty obv a joke.

 

I love everyone and dont have anyone I dont like playing with...that even includes Lenlo......lololololololol  <3 <3 <3

 

But I really dislike this post from you.  You know me and Cory away from the game and you know were obv joking around about that like first page into the game

 

[v] Sooh [/v]

 

 

As someone who used to go off about the Alliance I get where sooh is coming from. It may not be alignment indicative but it can sometimes feel a bit cliquey and can sometimes be a bit annoying.

 

 

Zander you really should remove your vote. She expressed an opinion   a personal opinion at that   and whether she knows u out of game or not she is entitled to that opinion and shouldnt be getting pressured for it.

[Zander?]

@ Dice

 

Its BECAUSE Sooh knows me and Cory away from the game that it bothers me, hence the vote.

 

You also know Im not gonna remove my vote because Im asked/told to.

[Shad_]

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

 

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

 

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

 

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

 

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

 

I think Sooh drew negative attention by accident and the 'controversial' post came later, so I'm intensely null on it.  I have some silly gut thoughts that certain people are town, and they really aren't worth sharing atp.

[Hallia]

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

 

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

 

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

 

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

 

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

Why are you suspicious of that?

[dicetosser1]

@ Dice

 

Its BECAUSE Sooh knows me and Cory away from the game that it bothers me, hence the vote.

 

You also know Im not gonna remove my vote because Im asked/told to.

 

I also know that you should because its actually the right thing to do.

 

I know u outside the game to and sometimes ure bromance annoys me as well   you gonna vote me now?

 

outside the game is outside the game  her opinion is about something that occurs within games and which she has an opinion on so you should be sticking to in game stuff

 

that vote is complete crap and i think you know it

[Hallia]

I think dragging out of game stuff into game is going to make this no fun.  Can we focus on the game at hand?

[Zander?]

 

@ Dice

 

Its BECAUSE Sooh knows me and Cory away from the game that it bothers me, hence the vote.

 

You also know Im not gonna remove my vote because Im asked/told to.

 

I also know that you should because its actually the right thing to do.

 

I know u outside the game to and sometimes ure bromance annoys me as well   you gonna vote me now?

 

outside the game is outside the game  her opinion is about something that occurs within games and which she has an opinion on so you should be sticking to in game stuff

 

that vote is complete crap and i think you know it

 

 

 

I dont think my votes crap at all.

 

Do you think my vote is alignment indicative of anything Dice?

 

Outside the game is just that,  But when its brought up and is false or misrepped or whatever imma call it out.

[Shad_]

Dice. Ignore the frustration with bromance or whatever. This post:

 

*raises an eyebrow*

 

So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?

 

And it looked like Zander had done the same. 

 

Why?

Does it strike you as odd or not? Why?

[dicetosser1]

thats the problem zander   you are voting her for something that isnt alignment indicative at all.

[Turin Turambar]

 

For reference, here's literally the last game I played with Zander (which you were in):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-town-wins-comprehensively/?p=3582230

 

That's post 19 - he jokingly cleared me and then tinfoiled on me a whole bunch of times on d1 and actually tried to start something with me during n1.

 

I could go back, but this is something he's also done with Laine and Shad and etc. etc.

 

He does it all the time in both roles.

Zander gonna Zander imo

 

lolololololol

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

 

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

 

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

 

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

 

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

WHy do you expect people to give snap reads atp Turin?

 

I find these snap reads weird atp, well I find snap reads this early strange in general.

 

But thats just me maybe.

 

I disagree irt Sooh, im not saying shes a wolf atp, but this type of play doesnt necessarily make her Towny imo. Garnering negative early and flipping it like this [ucg]COULD [/u]be played off as AtE which different players interrupt differently.

I'm not sure how to read that other tHan you saying she isn't a wolf. Are you saying that you just aren't sure?

[Hallia]

Turn I think you might need to reread what he wrote, and what you asked.

[Cory Caboose]

I'm home. I hate to bring up that post again, but we are going to talk about it at length because it's the first massively alignment indicative post in the game.

[Zander?]

thats the problem zander   you are voting her for something that isnt alignment indicative at all.

 

I obv disagree.

 

Your defense of Sooh is noted.

 

I think it most certainly could be alignment indicative.

 

Also I find it strange that you dislike my vote but arent voting me.

 

 

 

 

For reference, here's literally the last game I played with Zander (which you were in):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-town-wins-comprehensively/?p=3582230

 

That's post 19 - he jokingly cleared me and then tinfoiled on me a whole bunch of times on d1 and actually tried to start something with me during n1.

 

I could go back, but this is something he's also done with Laine and Shad and etc. etc.

 

He does it all the time in both roles.

Zander gonna Zander imo

 

lolololololol

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

 

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

 

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

 

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

 

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

WHy do you expect people to give snap reads atp Turin?

 

I find these snap reads weird atp, well I find snap reads this early strange in general.

 

But thats just me maybe.

 

I disagree irt Sooh, im not saying shes a wolf atp, but this type of play doesnt necessarily make her Towny imo. Garnering negative early and flipping it like this [ucg]COULD [/u]be played off as AtE which different players interrupt differently.

I'm not sure how to read that other tHan you saying she isn't a wolf. Are you saying that you just aren't sure?

 

 

Dude read all my posts.

[dicetosser1]

do you want me to do exactly what i complaining about you doing? sorry but no

[Zander?]

do you want me to do exactly what i complaining about you doing? sorry but no

 

but im voting in game so I dont think its the same but w/e

 

you do you and ill do me....

 

 

.....giggity?

[Cory Caboose]

So here is our impetus:

 

Zander, you posted his name in blue next to yours. Now if that's a joke then just say so and I'll let it go. 

 

 

 

 

For everyone: 

So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.

 

Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.

 

Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?

 

It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others. 

 

 

This post is going to be spoilered in several spots with titles to make it more easy to navigate, because it is going to be a dense, dense post with a lot of dumb corky words. Be warned this is probably going to be the most epic trashpost of my werewolf career and I'm embarassed to make it. Expect tildes in front of words as per usual Corky caveats where he tries to estimate full words instead of numbers.

 

SECTION 1: "Worlds"

 

 

This terminology in Mafia goes by many other names but I've always referred to it as "worlds" and when you see me talking about "There are no worlds where x does y..." type posts I'm referencing the concept of worlds.

It's a very easy concept and something all of us use: when you are looking at a post, what are the reasons they could have posted it as a villager? What are the reasons they could have posted it as a mafia?

 

One of the major things I do is do this post-by-post and see who has done the most stuff that makes sense for a villager to do.

 

I am having a gigantic problem with this post the more I think about it. It's really very simple:

My initial reaction was "If Sooh posted this as a wolf, it's pretty emotionally manipulative. She's not a particularly emotionally manipulative wolf, so she's probably a villager." One thing that's very apparent in the post is that Sooh is upset; there's not much of a question on whether that is genuine or not - it is. She's not faking that.

 

However, in terms of reading alignments, this was a bad initial reaction to that post but I could see other people coming to it. I wonder if it's specifically what Turin was thinking.

I think one thing we fail to remember sometimes is that wolves get annoyed / upset for plenty of REAL reasons and therefore it's not always a ~Nolder-type situation where you have to consider whether or not they are faking it to try and get townread. Thinking about it more, I eventually came to this:

 

Here is a world that makes sense to me where Sooh is a wolf:

 

Sooh pops into the thread making a post about being excited after seeing some excitement from villagers (specifically me/Zander/Shad). Eventually Village!Thane and Village!Hallia join that mix, and suddenly there's this odd town core forming of Me/Zander/Shad/Thane/Hallia that Sooh is not in for reasons she doesn't really understand. In a 13er, having five villagers clear eachother immediately is basically a death sentence; the game has become nearly impossible to win only four pages in. Upset that people are just clearing eachother for what seems like ~no reason, she reacts negatively to the thread and questions us on why we are doing it. When it's made more apparent that things were less than serious, she realizes her mistake and tries to have the issue dropped.

 

Here is a world that makes sense to me where Sooh is a villager:

 

[doesn't exist]

 

This is why I need follow-up to this, because I do not understand why she would post that as a villager. Dice brushed up on the fact that there are some notable "DM bromances", but Sooh has played with all of us several times, is an inclusive and beloved member of our Mafia community, and I think if nothing else trusts me to be objective. Could I see an outsider making that post frustrated at the start of the game as a villager? Yes, totally. Sooh? It doesn't make sense to me. I can't understand it, so the first world makes a ton more sense to me: she's just a wolf.

 

 

SECTION II: "Ranges"

 

 

And here is where I struggle intently with reading Sooh.

 

"Ranges" is the ~simple idea of apply meta to a player on a personal level. IE, there are things specific players are more likely to do as villagers and more likely to do as wolves. The now infamous "dice homersimpson post" is a good example of this, even if dice shed that meta like a year ago, but we're looking specifically at player habits.

 

One of the major differences in Sooh's play in both roles is that her village game has a strong emotional component that her wolfgame lacks. This is a relatively common tell for most people, but Sooh typically does not try to get "out of trouble" by throwing a fit because she understands that's a negative thing for the game in general.

 

I remember very specifically when she was getting lynched d1 in House of Cards she started to creep more and more into her village range with her responses and I felt really terrible about the lynch because as much as she was being pushed by literally the whole game and had a 12-player wagon in a 13-player game her responses were not akin to her wolf game.

 

If I were to specifically read that Sooh post knowing her ranges, I would guess she's a villager on it alone. She's more likely as a villager to get ticked off about something relatively ~harmless like that.

 

Unfortunately, this segment of read conflicts with the "Worlds" segment, so I am struggling immensely on getting a correct read.

 

"Mixed" indeed.

 

 

SECTION III: "Afterword"

 

 

First off, thank you for reading this terrible trashpost in which I say a lot of words and do not come up with a meaningful conclusion, but that post is something I want you to think about. Dice has attempted to explain the world in which Sooh is a villager making that post, but I don't buy it. Further input from anyone or Sooh is appreciated.

And in terms of me having "bromances" or a "clique" in Mafia games here, let me say the following:

I came here as a Mafia player and nothing but; I did not know any of you, I did not play with any of you before barring Despot, and I did not have any real impression of this forum.

 

The only reason I am still here today is my immense love for the player base here.

 

And honestly, if you meet somebody like Hallia (the sweetest person probably in the entire world) or Laine or BFG or Zander or Shad or literally basically everyone that plays here and do not realize "wow, this is a really frickin' neat person, I should try to befriend them", you are crazy. That goes for you too, Poot, and a whole bunch of people I didn't name. Yes, the games have gotten more volume intense and competitive at times, but I like playing here because we're all friends and that's what makes this game great.

 

So if at times I seem biased or weird because I am friends with someone in the game, please consider the following:

A) I will not allow my personal feelings to interfere with me reads and that's something I've strongly spoken about in many games. See: me chastising Zander for misreading Besie in the WE game, etc. My urge to win the game far surpasses any personal feelings I have.

 

B) I'd be an idiot for not being friends with most of the players here. You don't throw away something that awesome.

 

[Cory Caboose]

Consider this something like a Sooh for now with the caveat that if she is a wolf she probably spewed a whole bunch of villagers.

 

I am absolutely willing to develop that read with further information and more play from Sooh, so for now I'd advise you to ignore my read and think for yourself.

[Zander?]

That was A LOT of words!!!!

 

 

lololololololol

[Cory Caboose]

And as for the "wolf world" I wanted to add that I've seen this specific situation play out before.

 

There was a game Tress ran called Wind In The Door where Tom was a wolf and came into the thread immediately upset because me/Monstr/Tina/Pral/someone else (can't remember) were all villagers and village reading each other for "silly" reasons and he immediately starting talking in wolfchat about how he already felt the game was locked because a bunch of villagers united early. Very simple - wolves can get irate when they feel the deck is stacked against them, which I could see Sooh feeling in a specific situation where all or most of the early posters are villagers gladhanding eachother.

 

In that game, Tom managed to get himself out of an early hole but their team did lose pretty comprehensively, so he wasn't wrong.

 

I know that Tom and Sooh are very, very different players but I got weird deja vu over it this game.

[Sooh]

Yah, after that psycho analysis I got nothing. Talk about something else where I can possibly read someone or analyze me to death and lynch me. 

[Cory Caboose]

It was more for the rest of the game than you, if you have no intent to ever explain and just want it dropped.

 

There will be plenty to discuss with time. Turin has said some stuff, enough has happened where you could probably scratch at a read or two even if they aren't super confident.

 

If you were forced to make 3 reads right now, what would they be?

[Cory Caboose]

And you know damn well I only want to lynch you if you are a wolf.

 

If you are a villager, figure out some way of making it apparent so I don't have to lose sleep and go through the corky guilt-ridden mental breakdown that occurs when I lead a mislynch. I'm asking as a favor at this point.

[Zander?]

It was more for the rest of the game than you, if you have no intent to ever explain and just want it dropped.

 

There will be plenty to discuss with time. Turin has said some stuff, enough has happened where you could probably scratch at a read or two even if they aren't super confident.

 

If you were forced to make 3 reads right now, what would they be?

 

Is this to everyone or just Sooh?

 

If everyone....I'll show you mine if you show me yours <3 ,3 <3

[Zander?]

And you know damn well I only want to lynch you if you are a wolf.

 

If you are a villager, figure out some way of making it apparent so I don't have to lose sleep and go through the corky guilt-ridden mental breakdown that occurs when I lead a mislynch. I'm asking as a favor at this point.

 

How often does this happen when youre Town?

 

I only remember with Pizza and that mostly you going with me on it cause i was going #FULLZANDER and you needed to restore the peace!!!!

[Cory Caboose]

It does happen. D1s are hard.