[Standard] Chrono Trigger Mafia - Town wins Day 5!

[Zander?]

You're right, I stated many times that I had reservations voting Dice.

 

But it was him or me, and my alignment is 100% as to where his wasn't.

 

Speaking on the topic of making suspects work, I am not going to let you get out of explaining your scum read on Nolder.

 

 

I did in my reads list already didnt I?

 

I dont care what you "think" youre gonna make me do.  Youre case on me is garbage, coupled with my reservations with you D1

 

[v] AJ [/v]

 

Will switch to Nolder if need be.

 

Baring something crazy, only places my vote goes today.

[Andrej]

Okay - and that hasn't changed at all? Not one bit?

 

Your point is a bit stale now, don't you think? We're well passed that point in the game and Nolder has posted quite a bit since then.

 

This is what I was talking about. Your reasons are fake and now I'm just making it obvious to everyone else.

[Zander?]

Okay - and that hasn't changed at all? Not one bit?

 

Your point is a bit stale now, don't you think? We're well passed that point in the game and Nolder has posted quite a bit since then.

 

This is what I was talking about. Your reasons are fake and now I'm just making it obvious to everyone else.

 

More "fake" then the reasons you listed for voting me....lolololololol?

 

It obv has changed some, Im voting you and not him currently right?

[Andrej]

Weak response.

 

Again, you're waffling on your reads.

 

It's cool though, this will get resolved one way or another.

[Andrej]

And just for the sake of everyone, since I'm sure you're gonna be asked a lot about it: clarify what relation Yates has to me saying you're weak at pushing townies as scum.

[Zander?]

Weak response.

 

Again, you're waffling on your reads.

 

It's cool though, this will get resolved one way or another.

 

Show me where i waffled on my reads?

 

Its gonna get resolved on way for sure. I promise you that,

 

And just for the sake of everyone, since I'm sure you're gonna be asked a lot about it: clarify what relation Yates has to me saying you're weak at pushing townies as scum.

 

I did explain it. 

[Andrej]

No you didn't.

 

You just said for me to re-read my statement and then read your post again. There's zero clarification there and have no idea why you are bringing up Yates in that regard. It's bad enough you're trying to use his flip to vet your reads list, as if that means anything.

 

I called you out on your stale reason for scum reading Nolder. Your response is "well, it's changed obvious." Okay, so prove it. You said you're still willing to vote him so it hasn't changed that much. CLARIFY YOUR READS BRO.

[Zander?]

No you didn't.

 

You just said for me to re-read my statement and then read your post again. There's zero clarification there and have no idea why you are bringing up Yates in that regard. It's bad enough you're trying to use his flip to vet your reads list, as if that means anything.

 

I called you out on your stale reason for scum reading Nolder. Your response is "well, it's changed obvious." Okay, so prove it. You said you're still willing to vote him so it hasn't changed that much. CLARIFY YOUR READS BRO.

 

I said my reads changed.  Get it right.

 

I did tell you to reread it cause my explanation was obv.

 

Notice you didnt try to disprove the things Ive brought up just like yesterday you wouldnt bother to answer stuff i brought up against you.

 

I have clarified my reads bro.

 

I said my reasoning for scum reading Nolder was in my reads list.

 

lolololololol

 

This is a lot of weaksauce man.

 

Ive said my piece about you,  Its all there.  Ill let others weigh in on it.  Youre going down today AJ.  Imma just wait and see before nailing the coffin.

[Andrej]

Keep telling yourself that, man.

 

But you're as good as outed. You obviously can't sustain any reason why you're scum reading people, which is exactly what makes you a wolf. You can't just say "look at my reads list" from pages and pages ago when there is new information to process.

 

Your explanation is not obvious at all, but I'm sure you're gonna get grilled enough over it so there'll be an answer one way or another.

[Zander?]

Keep telling yourself that, man.

 

But you're as good as outed. You obviously can't sustain any reason why you're scum reading people, which is exactly what makes you a wolf. You can't just say "look at my reads list" from pages and pages ago when there is new information to process.

 

Your explanation is not obvious at all, but I'm sure you're gonna get grilled enough over it so there'll be an answer one way or another.

 

The proof is in the eye of the beholder brother.

 

Ive think ive made my case on why IM scum reading you.  Theres still others that are null i need to see more from.  Ive no better scum reads atp then you and Nolder.

 

Ill explain this again for you. To.push or build case youve gotta be able to place them in a spot that makes sense.  Ive stated reasons for why I have them there and others have seen the same thing I have on a lot of them.

 

Like compare yours to mine and show me my weak pushes AJ?.

 

How about you address the stuff I mentioned instead of just saying its weak.

 

Like a fair of your posts are just you responses saying :"Im Town" or "thats weak", he or she is scum, "youre outed"

 

SHow us your cases AJ.  Like was there ANY yesterday, did you take any real solid stances?

 

Oby I was wrong on Dice but others seen the same things I did.  Obv I was right on Yates and 99% sure im right on Hallia with her claim being out there,  THe list is shrinking which makes me more comfortable.

[Andrej]

If you think my filter is just saying "I'm town" and "that's weak" you're severely mistaken. How can you be scum reading me if you don't have a good grasp of my content? I took PLENTY of stances D1. I was out there the entire Day, trying to make myself clear and to present my thoughts.

 

Okay - so you're challenging my statement that you can't push townies believably as scum by talking about the placement of your reads? That's awesome. My point is that your SCUM READS ARE FAKED. And when pushed to reiterate or express your current view on one of them, all you can do is waffle and tell me that it's explained in your reads list. That's terrible man and really is just exposing you.

[Zander?]

If you think my filter is just saying "I'm town" and "that's weak" you're severely mistaken. How can you be scum reading me if you don't have a good grasp of my content? I took PLENTY of stances D1. I was out there the entire Day, trying to make myself clear and to present my thoughts.

 

Okay - so you're challenging my statement that you can't push townies believably as scum by talking about the placement of your reads? That's awesome. My point is that your SCUM READS ARE FAKED. And when pushed to reiterate or express your current view on one of them, all you can do is waffle and tell me that it's explained in your reads list. That's terrible man and really is just exposing you.

 

 

I'm phone posting so not gonna do all the colors and what not.

 

Turin - Town lean. Not completely sold on this read yet but overall I'm not getting terrible vibes from Turin yet. His case on Dice is heavily subjective, but I know he would probably do the same as either alignment. He's made some pretty good points and seems to be evaluating everyone with a level head. The only real knock on him is that sometimes I feel he's playing a bit 'too clean' so to speak. Will need further info to lock this one up.

 

Leelou - Starting to scum lean. I know she's busy so I won't list her overall lack of thread presence as a reason. I kind of get the vibe she's focusing on the wrong things though as the game has picked up. Not really fan of her tunnel regarding Halla's spot reads. Seems like a somewhat minor detail to nitpick. Not really sure where she's at as far as scum reads go.

 

Nolder - Feel pretty good about Nolder being town. His mistake regarding Tina's post was pretty bad imo but I think his aggressiveness is a positive sign. I don't associate scum!Nolder with pushing his reads as hard as he has in this game.

 

Verbal - town lean. He's gotten considerably better now that he is involved. I wish he'd take a more 'leader' role because I find him easier to read that way but that's not really his play style. I can tell he's catching more of the undercurrent stuff so I think that's a good sign.

 

Yates - reads extremely genuine with his trepidation on my slot. I know exactly how he feels as I've been in the reverse a time or two dealing with him. One of my stronger town reads.

 

Tina - her content is getting better now that she's more involved and digging in. I think Tina lurks more as scum and that's not what I'm seeing here. Town lean.

 

Hallia - vastly improved with her latest content. Looked sketchy early on, but I think she may be getting targeted as LHF. Feel pretty good about town!Hally this round.

 

Lenlo - mixed. I get a feeling Lenlo has improved his play style across the board. I'll need to comb over his content later with some flips in mind before I'll feel confident making a call here.

 

Zander - sorta mixed here too. Wasn't getting particularly bad vibes from Zander early on but I'm still a little bothered with his handling of me, though I can understand this may just be bias on my part. Will be keeping on eye on him as things develop.

 

Thane - null. Thane's entry seemed okay and he was quick to give his opinions which I take as a positive but overall would like to see more to make a better call.

 

Dice - MIA. I can see the points people have brought up about him being different than usual. There have been snippets where I thought he sounded like his normal self but I agree that the lack of aggressiveness and absence troubles me. I'm afraid he might be a scapegoat lynch but if it comes down to me or him I won't gamble on being wrong.

 

 

Bolded are the stances you say feey pretty good, sorta mixed, Null.

 

You havent taken a lot of hard stances at all. And you leave yourself a fair bit of breathing room and outs.  Like look at your reasons on me and DIce.  Thet dont look all that great.

 

But you didnt say faked, you said I made weak pushes. I disagree and Ive explained why.  We'll see what others have to say.

 

But imo a lot of the things youve called me out for and Lenlo have been stuff youve done the same yourself...lolololo.

[Hallia]

I'm not certain either of you two are scum.

[Andrej]

Your evidence is one post in the entirety of my ISO and you're nitpicking my word choice. Good job.

 

All it takes is one glance at my filter to see that I have offered opinions freely throughout the game as it developed, whether unsolicited or asked for. Furthermore, and more importantly, my reads have progressed.

 

Like you can't even tell me why you still think Nolder is scum lol. You should be more careful when you make blank statements like "it looks like him and AJ are bussing" because now you've put your foot in your mouth because you can't back your accusation when called out. The stubborn shtick won't work for long, bro, people are going to want answers.

[Andrej]

 

Leno I think your current point is true but in a generic sorta way.

 

I understand where Hallia is coming from.

 

Yet true. Meaning I wasnt wrong.

 

I missed this earlier apparently.

 

Being "right" isn't the point though. A lot of your arguments were "right" in a theoretical sense, but that doesn't make them good or even productive.

 

Some of the topics you hassled Hallia over:

 

Not voting at EOD because it wasn't necessary for majority.

The difference in a reads list and WTL lynch.

What deep wolf means.

 

What did you accomplish with this?

[Lenlo]

As stupid and ridiculous as I think alot of AJs arguments currently are, Zander your not reacting well. Alot of what your calling out is nitpicking and your refusal to update any of your reads for us or answer some of his questions isnt good. I am tempted to townread you just because I think AJ is being stupid in alot of his cases and im annoyed at him, but I cant do that. Not if I want to win.

 

 

 

Leno I think your current point is true but in a generic sorta way.

I understand where Hallia is coming from.

 

Yet true. Meaning I wasnt wrong.

 

I missed this earlier apparently.

 

Being "right" isn't the point though. A lot of your arguments were "right" in a theoretical sense, but that doesn't make them good or even productive.

 

Some of the topics you hassled Hallia over:

 

Not voting at EOD because it wasn't necessary for majority.

The difference in a reads list and WTL lynch.

What deep wolf means.

 

What did you accomplish with this?

 

 

"Hassled", yeah, cause if something I think is worth badgering someone about isnt something you think is worth badgering someone about, its hassling.

 

You assume there was a purpose beyond me wanting to be right there, which by the end of it is what it turned into. I gave up trying to convince you there were problems in it. 

First one about EoD, there is no reason for her to have not voted at EoD. A vote is, most of the time, towns only power. If you dont use it your wasting it. Even if you dont think a lynch can be achieved Vote your wolf reads

Second one, this one matters alot. This entire game is about lying on the internet, so if she is lying/being inconsistent across her to lists that /should/ be very very similar, theres a problem. You can keep telling me it meant nothing, but your wrong.

Third, again this pertained to her read on Verbal which made no sense to me. Its a problem with her list. You wanna know what her only real content is so far? Her catchup, her list and her argument with me. So you can bet im gonna hammer her over an issue with one of those three things.

 

As for accomplishing anything, just because I didnt get anything out of it this time doesnt mean there was something wrong with it. You argue it was all semantics and such, but I disagree heavily. If you really thought it was just semantics, why didnt you jump in and try and stop it? All you did was throw out comments of support, for one side or the other, over the course of it. 

 

 

I'm not certain either of you two are scum.

Yet your voting me. And not commenting on any of this. And just following AJ.

 

Who are your wolf reads? Vote and case /your/ wolf reads. Not AJs, yours. Cause atm the only reason I have to townread you is your apparent claim, which we cannot confirm. Yay, informed towny. Town read yates. Who else knew Yates was a towny or >>>rand to be towny? The wolf team.

[Nolder]

Hey guys, not sure I'm going to get a lot of time to post this weekend.

Skimmed the last couple pages, want to reread a bit and see why Yates might have been killed.

Very possible it's just because he's considered a good player and nothing more than that but it doesn't hurt to check what his reads were.

Confused why Zander thinks I'm scum. If it's still "the Tina thing" I feel like not only was that explained but also irrelevant now but w/e.

 

And for Tina and others who've asked I'll be making up a reads list soon.

[Andrej]

Lenlo, Hallia is never scum in this game and you continuing to push her makes you look bad.

 

We can both agree that you were badgering her, yeah. I know why you were but it looks bad on you considering by then reading Hallia should've been extremely easy. Like you're ignoring what makes her obviously town and instead nitpicking her logic - which isn't her strong suit to begin with. You even admit that it just became wanting to be right which is pointless. Arguing generic theory points just to be right is not scum hunting. This is why you're a suspect.

 

You can call me stupid all you want, but until I think you're actually doing something to solve the game I will maintain my read on you.

[Andrej]

Confused why Zander thinks I'm scum. If it's still "the Tina thing" I feel like not only was that explained but also irrelevant now but w/e.

 

That's exactly the issue.

 

He has been linking us both but when I asked him to explain what makes you scum and how we are connected, he can't - or is refusing to. Then when pressed as to why he still has you as a scum read since his reason is outdated he continues to resist explaining.

 

It's because he is struggling to find a reason to keep that scum read on you. It's faked.

[Zander?]

As stupid and ridiculous as I think alot of AJs arguments currently are, Zander your not reacting well. Alot of what your calling out is nitpicking and your refusal to update any of your reads for us or answer some of his questions isnt good. I am tempted to townread you just because I think AJ is being stupid in alot of his cases and im annoyed at him, but I cant do that. Not if I want to win.

 

 

 

Update my reads list?  Its a new day and like 1/2 the players havent even checked in yet!!!

 

There are some players who HAVENT EVEN PROVIDED A READS LIST YET!!!

 

AJ's refused to answer or address some of my questions or concerns yet either.

 

And some of his points are wrong and reaching irt to me and fwiw you as well.

 

Town read me or dont.  You do you but look at everything and think hard about it.

 

 

 

Confused why Zander thinks I'm scum. If it's still "the Tina thing" I feel like not only was that explained but also irrelevant now but w/e.

 

That's exactly the issue.

 

He has been linking us both but when I asked him to explain what makes you scum and how we are connected, he can't - or is refusing to. Then when pressed as to why he still has you as a scum read since his reason is outdated he continues to resist explaining.

 

It's because he is struggling to find a reason to keep that scum read on you. It's faked.

 

 

 

Its late tonight so Im not gonna dig in too deep but when I say youre pushing against me for stuff thats wrong or what not, just employ the KISS rule....

 

If I have Nolder as scum and you as my top next tier suss and you guys are going at it back and forth what would I assume you both were both doing AJ, like man this is basic stuff.  I even asked people about your guys tendency to bus on D1.

 

Can I be wrong sure, do I think I am, no.  Im gonna re evaluate when theres more to go off of once everyone gets here.

 

I think it could have even been you possibly that reminded me of it but one of Nolders top scum tells is feigned derp or confusion.  He missed Tina's response, which I can get because of the way it was worded but multiple people brought it up after the fact.  I dont see him missing all those as well.  He did the same thing in the game I played with him in, I forget the name but it was a WoT game Nyn, Kiv, SHad and Calder I believe were in it and we mislynched AlannaGOAT (sorry my dear) and he was busted for it.

 

You, I think is obv and Ive listed reasons for that already.

 

So before you try and jump on me for crap, do the same yourself first.  You asked me for a reads list yesterday which I provided and then you waited on doing yours.  I asked questions and made comments yesterday and today that you ignored or just shrugged off.  You dont wanna respond to my inquires then call me fake and scum for not doing the same even tho I feel I have addressed them.  Just because you dont agree doesnt mean I didnt,  Ive been very agreeable thus far considering the fact that not only do I think your scum but I feel what youre coming at me with is a fair bit of BS.

 

Dont be a hypocrite AJ.  Or continue to and reaffirm to others what I already think.

[Lenlo]

Lenlo, Hallia is never scum in this game and you continuing to push her makes you look bad.

 

We can both agree that you were badgering her, yeah. I know why you were but it looks bad on you considering by then reading Hallia should've been extremely easy. Like you're ignoring what makes her obviously town and instead nitpicking her logic - which isn't her strong suit to begin with. You even admit that it just became wanting to be right which is pointless. Arguing generic theory points just to be right is not scum hunting. This is why you're a suspect.

 

You can call me stupid all you want, but until I think you're actually doing something to solve the game I will maintain my read on you.

Thats your opinion. And I wasnt pushing her, I stated she wasnt lock clear. Cause she isnt. As for reading Hallia, ive never been good at it. Ive never figured out all these little tells you guys apparently have for her, because logic is very important to me. Someone who doesnt play with logic does not make a whole lot of sense to /me/. So lapses in logic are things I will hammer because it matters to /me/.

 

Oh nooooooooooes. AJ will keep his read on me unless I do stuff that he likes. If only I cared. Im gonna keep doing my thing, whether you like it or not will not affect me.

[BFG]

Votecount

 

Zander (1/6): Andrej

 

Lenlo (1/6): Hallia

 

AJ (1/6): Zander

 

 

Not Voting (7): Leelou, Lenlo, Nolder, Thane, Tina, Turin, Verb

 

[Andrej]

Lenlo - what is your read on Hallia then? Did any of that conversation give you a better one?

 

Zander - so when you have two people you are suspicious of going at each other, your first thought is that they are bussing? I'm not sure I buy that, especially to make that kind of call early on. I also maintain that your read is outdated. He has posted more since you gave that read so you should have something to help you continue evaluating, that fact that you won't or seem to not be able to is a bad sign imo and solidifies my POV that your scum reads weren't genuine in the first place. I never called you scum for not answering my questions, that's your shtick you are trying to call me a hypocrite for. The fact that you aren't though, just proves what I was saying in the first place. Your scum reads were made up and you show a glaring lack of progression on them.

[Niniel]

Will spend some time at this game. It will take time since it's over 40 pages.

 

Thoughts before I start.

 

Yates - I don't think I will try to find out why he was killed. There can be a lot of reasons and it will only be guesses anyway.

 

People that I won't look into much is Hally, Turin and Leelou. Hally is clearly town. I always starts to doubt my reads but I will stick with Turin being town right now. He did an effort to understand me that wasn't needed if he didn't really try to solve the game. Leelou hasn't got enough posts yet. I can't judge her one way or another yet.

 

Initial feeling is that Zander - AJ is both mafia. Their back and forth looks forced. I will however try not to think about that when I re-read since I can't really know if that is true.

[Nolder]

Ok I went through Yates' posts and from what I can tell his main focus was Dice.

So that's a dead end.

 

He did mention he was worried about AJ but I don't think he ever elaborated on that.

The only thing I can come up with is maybe scum believed his claim about being masons with Zander at the start of the game?

That would make me feel better about Zander if he wasn't trying to kill me right now so I dunno.

Or could just be some random kill.

 

I want to go through a few other peoples posts and then I'll post a reads list.

I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow so I might have time or I might be gone all day so don't count on it before Monday.