Frozen Mafia Game Thread--GAME OVER--MAFIA WIN

[Sili Quirrels]

 

9. Andrej - seems apathetic to me. more than normal. commenting Razen outs himself and not quoting the passage for instance.

 

Patience.

 

o.O

 

That was a good post though.

[Sili Quirrels]

Also - curious - but what are 'normal' levels of apathy that you get from me?

 

Like ever.

 

I didn't mean to say you are normally apathetic, merely point out it was abnormal.

[Andrej]

[unvote]

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

FTR - I never really had a reason to vote Sili. I wasn't paying that close of attention to the thread while I was enjoying my resort visit, I saw the two of them arguing and how Dice was engaging so I decided to throw down my vote without saying anything to see how people handled it. Basically no one said anything, which is fine, except a few.

 

Sili called it a bad vote. This is null.

 

Sooh/Kaylee (don't remember which now) said they didn't like me not explaining it. This is fine too.

 

The best reaction I got to the vote, by far, was Razen's ability to take a vote with no stated reason and apply it negatively without doing any sort of investigation first. At the very least, he isn't playing objectively and I have issue with that. People assume a lot in this game, but there's always two sides to the coin. If he wanted to assume that I was sheeping Dice, that would be okay, but only if he acknowledged that I could have been doing something else. Instead he hard labels it as something, essentially fabricating his own reason to vote me, and runs with it.

[Andrej]

 

Also - curious - but what are 'normal' levels of apathy that you get from me?

 

Like ever.

 

I didn't mean to say you are normally apathetic, merely point out it was abnormal.

 

Was gone all weekend in the desert.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

i did, regarding your play. 

 

Dice's behaviour seems like town dice to me, ftr.

 

I've been reading the page AJ had mentioned, and i think i see what he means. 

 

As for the other players: some more would be nice. The most talk has been about you and dice for now, and it'd be nice to see some other talk. 

 

When you say I am struggling, start by elaborating on what you mean. Because struggling certainly isn't the word I would use.

 

the impression i get is that you try really hard to defend yourself after some players, including me, think would be you plainly contradicting yurself in the thread. Two words have caused all that chatter: "Sooh town". No more, no less. Then, you suggest that you didn't clear Sooh. Which contradicts the famous two words i am refering to. You're trying hard... very hard. But people still go on about it. That's why i think it's a struggle for you at this point. Shenanigans sometimes do not pay out.

 

We have a good amount of good town players in this game, and things like that will be looked into. 

 

Please, Sili. If you're town, then try to get past those two words, and see what else is happening in this thread. Same goes for all other players.  We can draw conclusions out of this in a later stage of the game imo. It's taking up too much space in the game this early.... 

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't think Dice realized he was implying he cleared Zander by criticizing me for having a double standard.

 

As for Razen, his pov and post is... disconnected. I don't really understand it. It's not... uhm, coherent I guess is the best word.

[Andrej]

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

[Thane Vakarian]

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

agreed, and i said so in my previous post

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

i did, regarding your play. 

 

Dice's behaviour seems like town dice to me, ftr.

 

I've been reading the page AJ had mentioned, and i think i see what he means. 

 

As for the other players: some more would be nice. The most talk has been about you and dice for now, and it'd be nice to see some other talk. 

 

When you say I am struggling, start by elaborating on what you mean. Because struggling certainly isn't the word I would use.

 

the impression i get is that you try really hard to defend yourself after some players, including me, think would be you plainly contradicting yurself in the thread. Two words have caused all that chatter: "Sooh town". No more, no less. Then, you suggest that you didn't clear Sooh. Which contradicts the famous two words i am refering to. You're trying hard... very hard. But people still go on about it. That's why i think it's a struggle for you at this point. Shenanigans sometimes do not pay out.

 

We have a good amount of good town players in this game, and things like that will be looked into. 

 

Please, Sili. If you're town, then try to get past those two words, and see what else is happening in this thread. Same goes for all other players.  We can draw conclusions out of this in a later stage of the game imo. It's taking up too much space in the game this early.... 

 

Let me allcaps this just one more time.

 

I DIDNT CLEAR SOOH.

 

READ MY SECOND POST WHERE I ELABORATE ON THE SAME READ, WHERE I IMPLY I WASNT CLEARING HER. FFS.

 

I HATE BEING MISREPRESENTED.

 

Dice said, I cleared Sooh DESPITE reading my second post and knowing I WASNT CLEARING HER AND THAT IS NOT AT ALL WHAT I MEANT.

[Sili Quirrels]

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

Aj gets it.

 

 

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

agreed, and i said so in my previous post

 

-_-

 

... fiiiiiiiine.

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]Razen[/v]

[Andrej]

I'm going to bed.

 

See you guys in the AM

[Sili Quirrels]

 

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

agreed, and i said so in my previous post

 

feels like wolf thane would have made an addendum here if he wanted to continue pushing me.

[Andrej]

[unvote]

[v]Razen[/v]

 

[imghttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzcz3fn1KS1r2nrus.gif[/img]

[Andrej]

 

Tried to EBWOP that one, but it tells me the image can't be used here anyway.

 

Meh - just click the link I guess.

 

Bedtime for real now. Sweet dreams

[Sili Quirrels]

mostly cause i can't make sense of him, and normally when i can't make sense of someone they're a wolf.

 

the post also sounds more like a narrative than an argument, and villagers, i feel anyway, often have a point in mind when they make a long post like that.

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't feel like Razen tackling AJ over his vote after Dice made a bad argument is terrible though.

 

I mean, I myself concluded either

 

a) AJ scanned Dice's argument and sided with him before leaving

b) AJ is voting me as a reaction test

 

So someone taking a) seriously doesn't shock me, even if there is a little cognitive dissonance in reading both AJ and I scum.

[Sili Quirrels]

Really, my problem with Razen is he thought, at first, I didn't like Dice clearing Zander, but actually I was casing Dice over having a double standard. He is admittedly confused by this, but he didn't reevaluate after Dice makes my argument more obvious. So in this way, I suspect Razen went from point a of the narrative, to point b of the narrative, nudging characters along the way.

 

*shrug*

[Sili Quirrels]

Also he misrepresents Dice, but who cares about that.

[Sili Quirrels]

I need sleep.

[Sooh]

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

Indeed! I am hot! 

 

 

uhm

 

Also Sili, 

 

it's time for you to...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

wait for it...

 

 

 

[v]Razen[/v]

[dicetosser1]

[unvote]

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

FTR - I never really had a reason to vote Sili. I wasn't paying that close of attention to the thread while I was enjoying my resort visit, I saw the two of them arguing and how Dice was engaging so I decided to throw down my vote without saying anything to see how people handled it. Basically no one said anything, which is fine, except a few.

 

Sili called it a bad vote. This is null.

 

Sooh/Kaylee (don't remember which now) said they didn't like me not explaining it. This is fine too.

 

The best reaction I got to the vote, by far, was Razen's ability to take a vote with no stated reason and apply it negatively without doing any sort of investigation first. At the very least, he isn't playing objectively and I have issue with that. People assume a lot in this game, but there's always two sides to the coin. If he wanted to assume that I was sheeping Dice, that would be okay, but only if he acknowledged that I could have been doing something else. Instead he hard labels it as something, essentially fabricating his own reason to vote me, and runs with it.

 

thats pretty much what i was assuming. i figured you just followed my gut.

 

as far as Razen he is the only one other then sili im willing to vote. He pinged me as soon as he started posting re me and sili.

 

heres the thing tho   my thinking? Razen and sili are tied together. My preferred order is sili then razen. Sili flips scum as i think he does that confirms razen for me

[Shad_]

 

sili and dice both kinda aggresive in the thread.... dunno what to make of that. Seen something from Sili that i will keep my eye on, not revealing that bit yet.

Hate this. If you're not going to say what it is, why even mention it? Typically I see people use this type of talk, as either alignment, to try to "trap" people. Not sure that's what he's doing, but let me just say traps tend to get townies more often resulting in mislynches. I don't like the trap plays or the cryptic talk.

 

Hah, in that case I have a funny feeling I will do things that bother you.  But I think my first sneaky move in this game was too subtle for anyone to notice anyway. 

[Pralaya]

Great. Not a lot to catch up :thumb up:. Always love when that happens.

 

So, the "big" thing that has happened so far is the dice/sili argument. Notice the BIG in quotes. Yeah, it is a minor thing at best. Sili does what sili does on D1 - which is to FoS as many people as he can. I have a town feel of him because of that. As scum he is more methodological - like making lists etc. Dice is also being dice - jumping quickly on a minor thing. I agree that is a v/v argument in the beginning.

 

What I am not liking are those who are making a mountain out of the molehill.

[Pralaya]

 

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

I speculate Sooh has difficulty faking tone. Therefore her vote of you, which is not serious at all, is a good sign. I will reevaluate later though.

So Sili comes in making reads off intro joke content. That's kind of normal for him I think. He's recognizing that Sooh's vote on Zander was a joke, thinks scum!Sooh struggles to joke at the start of a game. Ok. What makes the Zander thing weird is that the only person who "cleared" Zander was Verbal, and I don't get how he ends up taking Verbal seriously when he recognizes everyone else is joking around.

 

Ok so game post here not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh. He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth but he does give a reason later

Is Dice picking up on the same thing here? Well, no:

 

#87 -- "Do you only agree regarding Sooh. Do you think Zander should be cleared for fluff content?" ~~I think Sili's saying "if the so-called double standard is a bad thing and you're clearing Sooh, you ought to be clearing Zander too"~~ Sili drops a vote on Dice.

 

#92 -- Dice repeats the double standard argument which I do think is kind of silly.

 

#94 -- irt #87: But Sili wasn't very explicit about what he meant so Dice doesn't interpret it that way. He thinks Sili is saying that Dice did clear Zander, and he calls Sili out for making up a bogus reason to vote him.  ~~I can especially see where Dice might think this when only one person "cleared" Zander and Sili is acting like a few people did.

 

#98 -- Sili clarifies what he meant. Nothing wrong with this post.

 

#99 -- Starts to read Dice town, hates how AJ just dropped a vote without explanation.

 

#101 -- "I am just fos'ing you because you are not thinking too critically about Zander right now, or what a double standard is even." ~~I'm ok with this part.~~ "Dice, you said you read my second post where I elaborated on the read. What part of 'will reevaluate later' means 'clearing' to you..." ~~ This part is kind of meh, coupled with the insult. Needlessly antagonistic?  You could have just pointed it out to him without picking a fight.  Anyway if you're town I have no doubt you will continue to evaluate Sooh beyond her intro joke posts. But I mean, you don't like that Verbal "cleared" Zander which was possibly a joke but you don't get why Dice thinks you're fully clearing Sooh when you were serious and explained with actual meta.  It's silly on both ends.

 

#102 -- Dice thinks Zander can be tone read ~~teach me please~~ Dice's main issue now seems to boil down to Sili having not explained why he was town reading Sooh until someone asked him.

 

#103 -- "Your push seems lame. A double standard is by no means bad, especially when you yourself don't clear Zander for what Sooh is doing. It is so easily falsifiable, literally no thought was put into it, and that makes it stand out to me." ~~The double standard argument is lame, I agree. I think Dice's push also involves (initially) thinking you had lied about events (regarding whether Dice cleared Zander town) and the fact that you didn't come out with an explanation about Sooh until after you were asked for one.

 

#104 & 105 -- Some lame emo from Sili here. "Therefore, I quit. I'll just evaluate him on his content as the day progresses. No need to interact." ~~bugs me because he was making progress in a read on Dice through their interaction and stated as much earlier, but now he's acting like trying to figure Dice out directly will not be productive. I dunno. All the hurling insults and ending the discussion seems counter-productive to developing your read on Dice. Frustrated as either alignment, probably,

 

All-in-all I'm null on Sili through the whole thing. Dice went at him with a bad argument at first, there was some miscommunication, Sili starts to look beyond the heat of the argument to try and get a grasp on Dice's alignment but ultimately just spews some insults and calls the whole thing off. It's a low effort way out. Like, I would never have taken that approach with Calder last game even though it would have spared me a lot of drama, because I wanted to solve his slot and thought I might be on to scum. But this is Dice, not Calder. I'm more willing to accept Sili deeming the conversation unproductive with him than with most people. Null.

 

But the conversation really wasn't unproductive. While I don't agree with Dice's initial reason for sussing Sili, this sort of "I'm going to catch scum out the gate" mentality is pretty typical of his town game at least. (I've never seen his scum game. If I ISO one I could get maybe some new/better read on him.) He really sunk his teeth in when he misunderstood SIli to be saying that Dice cleared Zander, and that's the part I like. He thought he caught Sili in a lie and he pounced on it. Like, he pounced hard. It doesn't strike me as something that a Dice who knows there was a misunderstanding would do. I think his town game is showing up early here.

 

@Sili, what made you take Verbal's "clearing" of Zander seriously?

 

@Verbal I generally assume when someone quotes a joke early and declares a player town it is another joke, unless explicitly stated otherwise, but since this has become a topic I should ask: do you have any lean on Zander right now?

 

Especially this post bothers me.

 

This is way, way elaborate for what is a minor issue. This feels to me more like trying to score some town brownie points by making it a much bigger thing and trying to over-analyze the issue.

 

The only game I played with Shad is when he was scum. So, I don't know if he does this as townie. But, I don't feel this is a townie attempt.