Frozen Mafia Game Thread--GAME OVER--MAFIA WIN

[Zander?]

gonna try and re read.the game.  but i think i may go with what i said originally.  If AJ is a wolf he deserves to win.  if she hadnt quick posted sheeping me.  almost like shes lurking so to speak i prolly feel better on voting AJ.

[Zander?]

Sili and Dice are both trying to misrep each other. I don't see where Dice said he was clearing Zander - and I don't see where Sili said he was clearing Sooh. Sili gave a reason after he posted that Sooh was town - he believes she has difficulty faking tone. Dice's only mentions of Zander came when he voted him.

 

 

@ Sili - If you felt people were clearing Zander too early - who are they besides Dice? You posted this before Dice had even posted his first post:

 

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

Why aren't you pushing those people over Dice then?

 

But what I find interesting is that we have two quick unexplained votes on Sili - and two people sitting on the fence about it. I like AJ's vote less than Zander's - Zander at least attempted to justify his, even though I don't agree with the justification. Disagreeing with Dice's assessment of the situation doesn't warrant a vote by itself, IMO. I don't like the wait and see attitude that Sooh and Thane are taking either.

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

 

Does Razen go after a "scummate this early in the game when he knows its a villa vs villa situation and other town (me and dice are suss'ing silly)  or is this a town cred move?

[Kaylee]

 

 

I have to leave for work.

 

For now [v]AJ[/v]

 

I'm not for sure it's him, but I know he does wolf well. Plus, as I said last night, Zander looks a bit better.

 

uggg SHEEPING AGAIN like right after I posted....MEH

No i sheep. I said as much last night I'll quote or for you.

[Kaylee]

I'm not sure which it is. I've thought AJ sounded better than Zander. Or I should say I had AJ as town for a long time.

 

Zander being on all scum lynches makes him look better though.

 

Basically I'm tinfoiling on both. I'm not sure which it is, but I think Zander looks a bit better. Would he really bus all his teammates? I just don't know.

This was right after day started I believe. It wasn't a sheep, but thanks for twisting my words. If you're going to lynch me then at least do it for something I actually did.

[Kaylee]

gonna try and re read.the game. but i think i may go with what i said originally. If AJ is a wolf he deserves to win. if she hadnt quick posted sheeping me. almost like shes lurking so to speak i prolly feel better on voting AJ.

No, it's 7:22 am here. I just got to work. I voted after getting up and getting the kids breakfast, following what I said before going to bed last night. Not sheeping.

 

Glad I can't post for awhile. It really posses me off to be misrepped.

[Kaylee]

I'll be back on during my lunch break

[Zander?]

regarding Kaylee:

 

through page 8.  her quotes here are too long to quote

 

 

a lot of sheeping and make comments that are like almost fence sitting.

 

liking Dice as town

 

sheeping Dice and me on Sili but saying shes still not 100% sure

 

shes liking Sooh and Dice and not liking Thane and Sili.

 

its all Town shes talking about.

[Zander?]

 

So I think Kaylee is actively trying to tunnel me. Don't know why yet.

 

Some things feel genuine, but when I read comments like:

Why don't you have time? Also this doesn't feel like taunting to me...just Dice being Dice.

 

It feels like she would be okay with me having a thunder dome with Dice despite knowing how destructive that is.

 

As to what I mean when I say taunting: just that Dice is trying to taunt a wolf and it's annoying.

 

I understand that in a vacuum wolves rarely involve themselves in v/v violence.

 

 

 

 

 

silis brings up a point about the Kaylee quote about the time.  im not saying or doubting rl stuff but she mentions and uses rl stuff in this thread (I KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO HAVE KIDS KAY!!!!) but what bothers me is someone who is mentioning rl stuff keeping her busy questions someone else (who we later know is town) on it.  doesnt sit well with me for some reason.

[Zander?]

[unvote]

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

FTR - I never really had a reason to vote Sili. I wasn't paying that close of attention to the thread while I was enjoying my resort visit, I saw the two of them arguing and how Dice was engaging so I decided to throw down my vote without saying anything to see how people handled it. Basically no one said anything, which is fine, except a few.

 

Sili called it a bad vote. This is null.

 

Sooh/Kaylee (don't remember which now) said they didn't like me not explaining it. This is fine too.

 

The best reaction I got to the vote, by far, was Razen's ability to take a vote with no stated reason and apply it negatively without doing any sort of investigation first. At the very least, he isn't playing objectively and I have issue with that. People assume a lot in this game, but there's always two sides to the coin. If he wanted to assume that I was sheeping Dice, that would be okay, but only if he acknowledged that I could have been doing something else. Instead he hard labels it as something, essentially fabricating his own reason to vote me, and runs with it.

 

AJ putting nails in the Coffin on scum with little heat on him at this point.  bussing a teammate is one thing but being the first to really out him looks pretty good imo.

[Zander?]

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

 

could be a move for town cred but also could read as focusing town back on task.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Last of it..

 

 

 

 

 

sili and dice both kinda aggresive in the thread.... dunno what to make of that. Seen something from Sili that i will keep my eye on, not revealing that bit yet.

I wonder if it's the same that I see.

 

that would be interesting to see.... i think it's something else, would be surprised if it's the same *nods*

 

Gross. So this feels like they're working together and furthering the "trap". I can't explain better why I don't like it...but at this point just say what it is or don't say anything at all.

 

-snip-

 

 

Bold: Fair enough.

Underlined Teal: No that's not what Dice was saying...the underlined is a misrep and a scummy push. (leaning orange on Razen for that).

Underlined Italics: Considering the purple and how you explained it is wrong, this is a further misrep and is just a gross push. The rest of the teal is just more Razen spinning things to fit is agenda.

 

 

-snip-

 

Not sure on Sili yet as I tend to misread him.  I'll go back through on the computer where I can multi quote and comment easier.

 

 

Two parts I want to address:

 

The first is regarding the Thane/Sooh interaction over Dice/Sili.  I snipped the part where Kaylee pointed out that she liked Thane's observation that Sili had contradicted himself.  But before she mentioned that point, she mentions she feels like Thane and Sooh are working together to further a trap.  A trap takes coordination - coordination that I find highly unlikely at this stage of the game from town.  If she feels that this is indeed a trap, then that should be two scum down.  But no.  She backs off of that line of thought.  I wonder why? 

 

The only agenda I'm spinning is winning this game for town.

 

Hmmm... I think Kaylee's concern about Thane and Sooh working together to build a trap is a bit reaching. They might have honestly both seen something they didn't want to point out until the situation had played out further.  But you're saying a trap takes coordination, and I can't buy into that as a general rule.  There have been plenty of times as town that I've seen a player behave cryptically and I've pretended like I knew what they were thinking though I didn't have a clue, just to see who would get nervous.  I don't think Sooh is someone who would do that though.  At least not as town.  She was a pretty straight shooter in Pulp Fiction imo.  I think it's more likely that she either really did see something (which she's going to have to explain to us eventually) or she's scum, null regarding Thane there because it could just be buddying.  It's null until she acts on what she saw and I don't know that I'd carry out a lynch based strictly on my reasoning here.

 

What I do take from your post is that it's very unlikely you and Kaylee are w/w.  If so you just dismantled your scum mate's soft push while turning attention onto her.  So I'll pocket that bit of solve.

 

 

fwiw concerning Kay.  both points can make some sense.

[Zander?]

 

"Sooh town"

 

sounds to me more like a hot read than a hard clear.

 

This argument has gone on long enough.

 

Dice/Sili probably v/v

The bold is what I was thinking as well.  So I'm confused why people are seeing it that way?

 

 

I don't feel like Razen tackling AJ over his vote after Dice made a bad argument is terrible though.

 

I mean, I myself concluded either

 

a) AJ scanned Dice's argument and sided with him before leaving

b) AJ is voting me as a reaction test

 

So someone taking a) seriously doesn't shock me, even if there is a little cognitive dissonance in reading both AJ and I scum.

If this is about me - where did I read you scum?  I don't think I've listed what I thought about anyone yet.  I didn't like AJ's unexplained vote yesterday, and I said as much.

 

I don't think Dice realized he was implying he cleared Zander by criticizing me for having a double standard.

 

As for Razen, his pov and post is... disconnected. I don't really understand it. It's not... uhm, coherent I guess is the best word.

This is the point I was trying to get at when I posted about this initially.  But he did confirm it - I need to look back and see if it was before he made this post or after.

 

1. Razen

2. Shad

3. Kronos

4. Verbal

5. Kaylee

6. Hallia

7. Sooh

8. dice

9. Andrej

10. Zander

11. Pral

12. Thane

13. Sili

This is the list I was looking for before.  Note to self: don't ever use yellow on this site, it makes your eyes bleed.  But the point comes across - at this point, suspecting Hallia, AJ, and Thane.  He updated this a bit later with better explanations.

 

 

sorry for quoting a massive quote:

 

Raz suspects:

 

Hallia: Wolf

Thane: Town

AJ: ?

[Zander?]

Quick takes:

 

-Dice probably town

-Same with Sili, but to a lesser extent.  I want to say they both come out as town from that discussion, but if I needed to choose 1 as scum, it would be Sili (but I don't want to right now).

-AJ probably town for having the same reaction that I did

 

-Kaylee practically locked in as town unless she's heavily changed her scum meta since I last played with her.  Her analysis MQ was a huge townie indicator for me.

 

-I liked some of Shad's posts, and then didn't like others.  I'll need to ISO to clear my mind here.  First priority.

 

verb throws points out for both Aj and Kay.  Kay being a more solid read for him.

[Zander?]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-day-6/?p=3547568

 

 

Kaylees broken quoted WoT

 

Summary:

 

 

SHEEPING with no real added thought process. 

[Zander?]

It won't let me use the posts now so I'll just make the comments I had with them for now. Hope it makes sense.

 

Liking Thane's more recent posts. (In particular where he's responding to Sili)

 

Thane is one Null for me atm but closer to town.

 

 

Dice: I don't see Razen and Sili tied together.

 

Shad: You also have it wrong about me worrying about a trap. Yes I said it was a possibility. I get what you're saying and that also works like a trap. (That was my point.) What I meant was it felt like they were working together, more like the way you suggested since I don't have either as a scum read atm. I didn't say I felt it made her scum. I was just saying that the cryptic/trap style talk is something I don't like and I was noting that they were both doing it at that point. I fully expect her to explain it later.

 

Razen: I didn't like how you gave Sili an explaination after questioning why his reads changed. Seemed like at first you fought it suspicious then backed off. Why? I find scum will do things like that to not make it too obvious that they know the person is town. I don't like the way you handled that at all. More reason I'm not liking you this game. It's the fact that you brought attention to it, double checked for yourself, then gave a reason as why the change could've happened. If you found it suspicious why not let him answer for himself?

 

Shad: You also have it wrong about me worrying about a trap. Yes I said it was a possibility. I get what you're saying and that also works like a trap. (That was my point.) What I meant was it felt like they were working together, more like the way you suggested since I don't have either as a scum read atm. I didn't say I felt it made her scum. I was just saying that the cryptic/trap style talk is something I don't like and I was noting that they were both doing it at that point. I fully expect her to explain it later.

 

 

Verbal I'm liking. He's giving early reads and trying to figure things out.

 

Ok reads so far:

 

Players

1. Razen - Already said but pushing an agenda, misrepping, not liking at all

2. Shad - Some good questions and points. I don't know him as well so light town feel for now.

3. Kronos - Need more

4. Verbal - Active, working to figure things out town feel

5. Kaylee - me

6. Hallia - Null really need more

7. Sooh - Null but leaning town.

8. dice - On his town game

9. Andrej - Town lean. I liked what he's had to say about Razen as it echo's my own thoughts.

10. Zander - Haven't really looked at him to this point.

11. Pral - I read him better as time goes on. Liking that he's active

12. Thane - Not sure yet, but time will tell. Null but closer to the town side

13. Sili - likely town

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

maybe its just me but thats a lot of early town reads at this stage of the game.

[Zander?]

concerning my last post:

 

for someone that is sheeping and having some trouble reading people, thats A LOT of CONFIRMED TOWN at a very early stage.

 

like tmi perhaps.

[Zander?]

 

What a wild dog he is.

Please don't insult players. It's not fun to read and it's rude.

 

 

fwiw i like this post though im not sure its alignment indicative for her.

[Zander?]

I just wanna lynch wolves and get along.

[Andrej]

I think the most notable thing from that list is outside of Razen she has the other two confirmed wolves as null and pretty much everyone else as town

 

Really don't like her vote today after saying I've been her strongest town read for most of the game

[Zander?]

 

Ftr I wanna note the odd vibe I get from Kaylee and Razen interacting together.

Found myself nodding my head to a lot of your critique of Razen, am a bit curious about this one. I'll have to reread there exchange. I commented earlier that I doubted they could be w/w.

 

 

 

I would probably need to read it again as well to able to explain it better.

 

Idk, just a vibe. Nothing I would bet the house on yet but the way they approached each other just felt weird to me. Like the conclusion the opposite player was already scum.

 

not sure what to make of this but someone is a wolf here and its not Shad.  just thought it was interesting.

[Zander?]

im through 18 pages and ill try and attack it more after if i can but my heads starting to hurt.

 

through 18 pages of re read and knowing what we know now I feel Aj looks a lot better then Kaylee.  Like i said if AJ's a wolf hes earned it

 

[v] unvote [v]

 

[v] Kaylee [/v]

 

Just too much sheeping, that reads list was just TMI imo.  I feel AJ was on all lynches and early.  I dont think AJ busses his whole team.  Thats just a little too much imo.

[Kaylee]

I haven't sheeped all game. I did in beginning because there were 8 pages of game when I woke up D1. After that I made points against Razen. Then, when everyone was believing Hally I did I didn't. I cased her at night. Then voted her after waiting for her to say something. I wasn't around for Csarmi's since I was with family.

[Kaylee]

Phone isn't letting me go back, but if you have any questions for me than ask them.

[Kaylee]

I have to be back at wirral in an hour. Less I'd they give me my shot on time. Yeah Dr appts

[Zander?]

I haven't sheeped all game. I did in beginning because there were 8 pages of game when I woke up D1. After that I made points against Razen. Then, when everyone was believing Hally I did I didn't. I cased her at night. Then voted her after waiting for her to say something. I wasn't around for Csarmi's since I was with family.

 

Kay im was the first person to call Hallia scum. and she was in my PoE so.....meh.  A lot of sheeping im also not the only one noticing it.  you said earlier its what  you do as either alignment and now youre saying your not sheeping.   

 

MEH my dear, im sorry but meh.