Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[michellem]

I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

People would only put who they targeted. Those who received the results can't say what you got, but if we get a different result, we maybe able to see if they were redirected. If everyone is redirected then we know it's a game mechanics, if it is just one or two people we should be able to work out who Loki is, because if it is the same person first targeted we have them. Of course, it means trusting people, and some people will lie (mafia nk), but Mafia want to get Loki as much as anyone. We wouldn't be giving any roles away, If mafia receive the results they have that info already.

 

We know there is a watcher out there (I have had results and so has Eld?) don't know if it was a mafia or town watcher though.

 

I targeted CoryKey N1, they weren't Loki.

 

Another idea is to test if Loki is triggered by targeting him. This would be tested by communally controlling who we target, as in all target the same person. I'm pretty sure all the outright harmful abilities (i.e. vig) are gone. I suggest we all target Mish tonight. think it's safe to say she isn't Loki. If our results are still scrambled, we all target someone else. By then we can determine if it's something Loki reflexively does by being targeted or not.

 

I'm not sure if I think this is a good plan or not. At least not at this stage. But I would agree to be the target if this was put into action.

 

Hope things go well for you Mish.

 

Thankyou :)

 

I was talking about Eld Talya.

 

I voyr no. It's a silly idea, and seeing as I think you are Loki, I don't wanna follow any ideas of yours for catching him.

 

The fact that I our still Theory crafting about him when we have now way to prove any of it and no info explaining his role continues to bug me. It's like the more you do this stuff to "catch Loki" the more it all seems like a front to me

 

I am getting pretty pissed off that you refuse to aknowledge my posts about Eld. I specifically explained why it's highly unlikely he's Loki. You stubborn refusal to accept facts is getting me really irked.

 

That quote apparently likes to break the formatting.

 

What I wrote to follow the stupid quote:

 

My interpretation of the warning we were given with the results is that Kivam would consider what you posted a violation of the warning if you had actually received a PM stating that Talya went nowhere.    Maybe I'm alone in that interpretation.

 

You are not the only one with that interpretation.

[Songstress]

I understand that you can't say more. I simply encourage you to ask the questions I asked because I know what answer Kiv gave me. If he's changed his mind since you got his PM, then great. If what you're saying is due to other factors, oh well, no harm no foul. 

 

There is no point in me asking those questions.  Tina should ask them if she isn't sure what she can say.

 

I'm sure if you brainstorm hard enough you'll alight on the actual reason why I have said what I have.  I obviously cannot confirm or deny, but feel free to speculate in the thread if you want.

[Niniel]

I think JS got away with his because he was saying if someone vowed me he got a cop review of VT. he didn't, he got a tracker result that showed I did not go anywhere. Because he didn't use the information in the way of his result he got away with it.

 

Tina who have you targeted on your nights? Thought you wouldn't be able to say last night, or at least check that first

 

I notice no one was interested in my idea. Nothing to say we can't.

 

Tina - not sure where you get JS trying to get you he told you to ask those questions to kivam.

 

I´m not good with all of these plans (see Tress´ post, I think it looked good) so I need to figure out if it´s good or not to reveil that. If we can´t come up with any cons then I´m okay with it. 

 

This is the post from Snow that I was talking about. I had just said that I got a cop result and then he posted this. It´s clear that I would break Kivam´s rules if I just answered that. 

 

Tina, I'm going ask you a very simple question. 

 

Who is your strongest town read? Who is your strongest mafia read? And which are you more certain of?

 

I'm really horribly sorry for how I've been abscent since D2. My head is in a really bad place and I'm struggling to keep up and sort this. I'll be gone until this evening then I'll catch up.

 

But GOOD NEWS AT LAST today. Today I've applied for permanent disability. I've waited over 2 years to be allowed to apply. I'm so happy and so angsty at the same time!

 

Good luck. I hope that you don´t have to deal with what I went through. It took me  three appeals (had to take it to court) until I got it all right. 

 

 

 

 

To Snow, I´m not interested in finding any loopholes. That is not what this game is about. 

[Niniel]

BTW. Check this out. http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95492-sign-up-acronym-game/

 

It starts today. :)

[Niniel]

What is wrong with DM?

[Taborline]

Anywho, Tab is my most likely candidate for today. Mainly for how she voted Verb.

 

[v]Tab[/v]

 

And how I also voted him D1, and was an influential vote for Wish on D2, and voted Verb L-1 on D3. I DID hesitate on D3, because as you rightfully pointed out, it was all too easy looking, where was the counter train? I panicked at being the L-1 vote, and so took it off while I thought about it more. No one would go with me to consider a JS or Talya or Tress lynch, so I put it back on Verb as at least I had had misgivings about him since D1. I'm still really uncomfortable about JS for that 90% sure of Talya/Tress post.

 

I'm really horribly sorry for how I've been abscent since D2. My head is in a really bad place and I'm struggling to keep up and sort this. I'll be gone until this evening then I'll catch up.

 

But GOOD NEWS AT LAST today. Today I've applied for permanent disability. I've waited over 2 years to be allowed to apply. I'm so happy and so angsty at the same time!

 

Very good news! I hope it all moves quickly for you

 

 

Another idea is to test if Loki is triggered by targeting him. This would be tested by communally controlling who we target, as in all target the same person. I'm pretty sure all the outright harmful abilities (i.e. vig) are gone. I suggest we all target Mish tonight. think it's safe to say she isn't Loki. If our results are still scrambled, we all target someone else. By then we can determine if it's something Loki reflexively does by being targeted or not.

Everyone please say if you are for or against this idea. I suggest quoting this and adding your name to the list, so we can keep track easily.

 

Eldrick - Yes

 

 

I don't think that would work, as you're relying on everyone to do what they say they're doing.

[Taborline]

What is wrong with DM?

 

I don't know, it keeps eating my posts or putting them before a post that was already there.

[Talya]

 

I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

People would only put who they targeted. Those who received the results can't say what you got, but if we get a different result, we maybe able to see if they were redirected. If everyone is redirected then we know it's a game mechanics, if it is just one or two people we should be able to work out who Loki is, because if it is the same person first targeted we have them. Of course, it means trusting people, and some people will lie (mafia nk), but Mafia want to get Loki as much as anyone. We wouldn't be giving any roles away, If mafia receive the results they have that info already.

 

We know there is a watcher out there (I have had results and so has Eld?) don't know if it was a mafia or town watcher though.

 

I targeted CoryKey N1, they weren't Loki.

****SNIP***

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this post, we know Corkey wasn't Loki. Doesn't mean that Loki hasn't been targeted, and they could be directed if they do. Of course you might just be stating a fact.

 

What is wrong with DM?

 

Loki!

[Niniel]

[Leelou]

You guys broke it. Good job

[michellem]

 

 

I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

People would only put who they targeted. Those who received the results can't say what you got, but if we get a different result, we maybe able to see if they were redirected. If everyone is redirected then we know it's a game mechanics, if it is just one or two people we should be able to work out who Loki is, because if it is the same person first targeted we have them. Of course, it means trusting people, and some people will lie (mafia nk), but Mafia want to get Loki as much as anyone. We wouldn't be giving any roles away, If mafia receive the results they have that info already.

 

We know there is a watcher out there (I have had results and so has Eld?) don't know if it was a mafia or town watcher though.

 

I targeted CoryKey N1, they weren't Loki.

****SNIP***

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this post, we know Corkey wasn't Loki. Doesn't mean that Loki hasn't been targeted, and they could be directed if they do. Of course you might just be stating a fact.

 

What is wrong with DM?

 

Loki!

 

 

You said: I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

I showed that that theory was untrue, since we know the flip of a person I targeted. They were not Loki, thus your theory doesn't work.

[Songstress]

My fault. Apparently DM doesn't like me quoting that one exchange with Snow about me assuming his result was on Talya.

[Talya]

I could go with BFG or Tina today.

 

All I've said before and I don't think much has changed. Still really disappointed in BFG (Deja Vu with Verb?) Seems to post but not much content.

 

For Loki, Lenlo is still there, but I think JS could be in the mix as well, not sure about Eld.

 

[v]BFG[/]

 

Still hasn't improve from when Sooh was in the game and she has been here long enough to get a fair idea of what is going on.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

People would only put who they targeted. Those who received the results can't say what you got, but if we get a different result, we maybe able to see if they were redirected. If everyone is redirected then we know it's a game mechanics, if it is just one or two people we should be able to work out who Loki is, because if it is the same person first targeted we have them. Of course, it means trusting people, and some people will lie (mafia nk), but Mafia want to get Loki as much as anyone. We wouldn't be giving any roles away, If mafia receive the results they have that info already.

 

We know there is a watcher out there (I have had results and so has Eld?) don't know if it was a mafia or town watcher though.

 

I targeted CoryKey N1, they weren't Loki.

****SNIP***

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this post, we know Corkey wasn't Loki. Doesn't mean that Loki hasn't been targeted, and they could be directed if they do. Of course you might just be stating a fact.

 

What is wrong with DM?

 

Loki!

 

 

You said: I have a theory that whoever targets Loki, would be redirected.

 

I showed that that theory was untrue, since we know the flip of a person I targeted. They were not Loki, thus your theory doesn't work.

 

 

As you know that Corkey wasn't Loki then I doubt your action was redirected, if you have an action, which you are assuming here. The theory could still be true, if someone actually targeted Loki and had a role, THEIR action results would then be redirected elsewhere, or RB or Kill, whatever the action may be.

[Leelou]

Still won't have my laptop until tomorrow, and broken DM is impossible to read on my phone. I'm sorta caught up, but I'll be fully caught up tomorrow.

[Talya]

Quote fail

 

[v]BFG[/v]

[Talya]

ebwop - vote fail...

 

Someone give me chocolate :(

[Lenlo]

Mish I read what you said. But it's not enough to stand against everything else Eld has done this game. It's just not.

 

So I still want him lynched.

[John Snow]

Mish I read what you said. But it's not enough to stand against everything else Eld has done this game. It's just not.

 

So I still want him lynched.

 

Along this same line of reasoning--What's to say Loki can't receive results too? If he knows that he's scrambling results and he happens to get one, it is in his best interest to reveal that info ASAP for the easy cred. 

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

 

I've finally reached start Day 2, which means I've read the whole thread (I think). I need to continue through Day 2 and on to get context for those events, but full reads incoming :)

[BFG]

Ok, a quick look at the voting from End Day 1; given that we now have flips of all 3 major wagons this needs more attention, but for now this is the obvious.

 

VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Pral (6) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow,

Verbal (4) - Talya, Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE,

WishLeste (1) - Mish

 

Not voting (3):  Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN (GMT - 4) ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

 

 

 

I will put mine Vote: Verbal for right now, but I need to read up since last night. I don't like voting Pral when I have no idea at all. Verbal at least had me suspicious, though even then I'm not sure.

 

I hadn't realised that the votes got this close. There's a fair bit of discussion about Pral/Verb, so the lynch was by no means certain. With 2 counter wagons that are both town would mafia bus here? Not knowing what role Verb has? Ocicat is also in her orange reads, so she could have voted there instead.

 

 

 

 

I actually hate that Pral isn't voting.

I don't see a point. My main vote would be Sooh or Talya. But, that is going to go nowhere.

 

I am not sure of Verbal. I don't think he is scum. If it comes to that, I will consolidate either on myself or verbal.

 

I will be on during the deadline.

 

This is just frustrating reading back :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually hate that Pral isn't voting.

I don't see a point. My main vote would be Sooh or Talya. But, that is going to go nowhere.

 

I am not sure of Verbal. I don't think he is scum. If it comes to that, I will consolidate either on myself or verbal.

 

I will be on during the deadline.

 

Wait, what?

 

If it comes to it, you'll vote yourself over no lynch?

 

I just lost faith in you. And Ocicat clearly isn't happening.

 

[unvote]

[v]Pral [/v]

 

And this pushes Pral 2 ahead again, as a momentum vote it's important.

 

Mish also votes Pral after this, before Talya hammers, but I'm pretty comfortable with them both as town right now. Tabor's looking pretty good for the vote and Eldrick less good

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i intended to say AFTER that quote...

 

---

 

This brings into question what he intended to accomplish by leading people to believe that he had a tracker or role cop type result on Talya.

 

I'd like an answer to that question.

I never said that I didn't get a result on Tayla. Don't misrepresent me. One of the scummiest things a player can do.

Are you saying your Mish read wasn't influenced by any results you may or may not have recieved?

Yes, I am saying that.

Then what you said was intentionally misleading.

What I said was what I could say with the restrictions Kivam placed on us. There are things that I definitely cannot say because it would reveal too much information. I tried to answer your specific question the best I could without breaking the rules.

 

You seem to be implying yet again that your result WAS on Talya, and that you got away with it because you misrepresented the type of result you received.

 

Here you imply that your assumption that Talya was VT was unrelated to the tracker result:

 

 

 

You honestly think if I was making up results I wouldn't check for that?

 

Besides, you essentially did the same thing with your cop view.

Not at all, actually.

 

You're making an assumption.

And you aren't? Just because I got tracker results and I think a player is vanilla doesn't necessarily mean the two are related.

My interpretation of the warning we were given with the results is that Kivam would consider what you posted a violation of the warning if you had actually received a PM stating that Talya went nowhere. Maybe I'm alone in that interpretation.

That's how I interpreted it too, which is why I said you were agreeing with me.

 

I see your point on my idea, and will drop it. I didn't think about how mafia could use the info we gather. I just wanted to figure out what's going on.

 

As for trusting the cop results, the fact that this isn't a bastard game should have been enough to tell me to trust them. I was just being paranoid.

[Sooh]

Vote Count

 

Tina (1) - Leelou

Eldrick (2) - John Snow, Lenlo

John Snow (2) - Eldrick, Tina

BFG (1) - Talya

 

 

6 to lynch

[BFG]

These are mostly based on Day 1, with what I remember of the later game added in.

 

Sorry these are short, I don't have much time before work. I'll add more tonight

 

 

Mish I think it would take a lot for me to tinfoil here. She's early onto Wishleste and continues engaging and pushing until they're lynched. Mish was the first to suggest a 3 man team, I don't think Mafia!Mish tries this strategy. There's a lot I could write here, but it seems fairly pointless.

 

Tress paying attention to details. Votes Verb, the only thing I need to check/ask from Day 1 is why she went from defending Pral to putting him in her oranges. There was an early post where she jokes about mind melding with Verb, I tend to think that that sort of joke is less likely to come from teammates. I remember feeling good after our back and forth Day 2, and recently is pressing Snow for what seems to be the only worthwhile reason, why was it so important for him to state that Talya was likely VT?

 

Talya I will hate it if I'm misreading her again, but Day 1 voted wishleste and Verb for 'good' reasons. Is paying attention (eg corrects Tress about Leelou agreeing with Verb that the early Cory thing could be TMI).

 

 

 

Tabor I don't have many notes from Tabor from Day 1, mostly up here because of that vote. There's maybe some strange phrasing in her ISO of wish-tree where she talks about 'distancing again'. Says vote is 50/50 between Mish and wishleste, but I'm not sure why she's finding Mish scummy at this point. But ends up voting Verb, which reduces Prals lead to 1

 

Lenlo Early game involvement, sustained interest. Not quite sure what to make of his early ISOs, they seemed to follow thread interest rather than his own convictions, but there were no problems with the ISOs themselves. Couple of salient points just thrown out there, and I like the way he addressed Tina saying she should have a read on him by now. Vote at the end was quite meh though.

 

Snow most of the good feelings I have come from the start of Day 1 where he engages with everyone, and there's internal consistency with his suspicion on Sili and later questions of Sooh. I don't really get the same level of involvement when he came back in thread. But his back and forth with Wishleste didn't sound staged.

 

Leelou first mafia read was Tina, apparently for not voting her bottom read, yet in the post she quoted Tina said that Ocicat was her bottom read. A couple of points where she's aggressive when questioned 'why is this bugging you so much' to Talya when Talya is questioning her over Cory early on. Asks Verb for his thoughts on Cory's response, but doesn't mention his reaponse. Keeping Verb in null felt honest during Day 2. End Day 1 avoids the Verb lynch in favour of Pral, also willing to vote Tina. I really want to ISO Leelou here, there isn't a lot, I know she said she was going to be busy for some of it so I need to see how much is for that.

 

Tina end Day 1 she was avoiding voting Pral because Ocicat was, yet at this stage I don't remember her stating a read on Pral, so why was it more important to be voting elsewhere than Ocicat compared to voting someone she thought was scummy over someone she didn't? She's pretty early about not liking Leelou although doesn't explain why at this point. Not sure how much value to put it, but Verb isn't on her read lists although he was someone she spoke about regarding the Cory/Talya/Leelou/Verb thing. Her vote sticks on Ocicat for most of Day 1, but she does go back to new stuff he posts. After Pral flip wants to look at wishleste, will need to look at how this is followed through. The main argument against her is that her reads list are static and safe, yet during Day 1 her reads seem to build naturally. There's now a lot of wifom with Verb hard defending her, but I'm going to try to ignore that. 'safe reads' yet she was early on Ocicat, Leelou isn't ever really going to be 'safe' and wishleste were mafia. The big thing is that Day 1 vote. At one stage she said she'd go Verb over Pral, then said she didn't want to vote Pral because Ocicat was voting him, and left her vote on Ocicat.

 

Eldrick there's not a lot that I felt strongly about one way or the other. I'm not sure how much to put down to different thinking patterns. He wasn't expecting the attention his Loki wincon comment would bring, but was planning on using it as a conversation starter? Votes Sili for votehopping and Eldrick had been voted for similar previously (interested to know Eldricks alignment in those games). Was willing to vote Wishleste for being a non_communicating hydra then comes back and says that he doesn't think that's scummy after all. Mostly here for that momentum vote.

[Eldrick4221]

Ok, a quick look at the voting from End Day 1; given that we now have flips of all 3 major wagons this needs more attention, but for now this is the obvious.

 

 

 

I will put mine Vote: Verbal for right now, but I need to read up since last night. I don't like voting Pral when I have no idea at all. Verbal at least had me suspicious, though even then I'm not sure.

 

I hadn't realised that the votes got this close. There's a fair bit of discussion about Pral/Verb, so the lynch was by no means certain. With 2 counter wagons that are both town would mafia bus here? Not knowing what role Verb has? Ocicat is also in her orange reads, so she could have voted there instead.

 

 

 

I actually hate that Pral isn't voting.

I don't see a point. My main vote would be Sooh or Talya. But, that is going to go nowhere.

 

I am not sure of Verbal. I don't think he is scum. If it comes to that, I will consolidate either on myself or verbal.

 

I will be on during the deadline.

 

This is just frustrating reading back :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually hate that Pral isn't voting.

I don't see a point. My main vote would be Sooh or Talya. But, that is going to go nowhere.

 

I am not sure of Verbal. I don't think he is scum. If it comes to that, I will consolidate either on myself or verbal.

 

I will be on during the deadline.

 

Wait, what?

 

If it comes to it, you'll vote yourself over no lynch?

 

I just lost faith in you. And Ocicat clearly isn't happening.

 

[unvote]

[v]Pral [/v]

 

And this pushes Pral 2 ahead again, as a momentum vote it's important.

 

Mish also votes Pral after this, before Talya hammers, but I'm pretty comfortable with them both as town right now. Tabor's looking pretty good for the vote and Eldrick less good

 

I'm trying and failing to see how this makes me look bad. I wasn't voting Pral for his inactivity, and didn't have a clear read on him yet. He proposed the idea of voting himself or Verb. The fact that he was willing to vote himself didn't sit right with me. It had nothing to do with the current vote count, and wasn't intended to be a "momentum vote". The fact that it ended up being one is regretful, but it was a bad play on his part IMO.

[Eldrick4221]

 

Another idea is to test if Loki is triggered by targeting him. This would be tested by communally controlling who we target, as in all target the same person. I'm pretty sure all the outright harmful abilities (i.e. vig) are gone. I suggest we all target Mish tonight. think it's safe to say she isn't Loki. If our results are still scrambled, we all target someone else. By then we can determine if it's something Loki reflexively does by being targeted or not.

Everyone please say if you are for or against this idea. I suggest quoting this and adding your name to the list, so we can keep track easily.

 

Eldrick - Yes

 

 

I don't think that would work, as you're relying on everyone to do what they say they're doing.

 

I'm relying on town to do what they're saying, and am willing to wait until mafia is found to try this. I already said as much, when Lenlo gave his reasons.