[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Zander?]

 

 

I'm here, doing my reread.

 

@ Alanna, you don't like Kiv doing what he did for his own agenda, why does this make you think scum rather than null?

 

about Zander - Every game I'm in I try to improve and take note of what people say, my game is evolving all the time, and try different things. However you and others have told Zander over and over about his game and he never evolves it. after our last game I feel like he won't change it because when he is scum he will use it to cover himself. If he was town, wouldn't you think he would want to show it more, instead of relying on old SW Zander that everyone loved. It's a cliche and how do you justify calling him town because of it?

 

I know this was at Alanna but i wanted to comment here cause im not a fan of this assessment of me:

 

Well im not as good of a player as you yet but i do feel im changing and evolving my game some.  After SW and Bellicheat everyone was after me to stop with the excessive lolololololol, !!!!!!!! and CAPSYELL.  which I think ive been doing for the most part this game

 

I wont change my tone, personality and general play style because theres not a different DM Zander, A Skype Zander, A Mafia Zander and an RL Zander....they are all one in the same.  Dont like it....tough cookies my dear.  Thats not to say Im not trying to get a little better each game cause thats my goal each time out.  Also in red that sounds like sound strategy imo.  But thats on you  to figure out right?  You've played enough games with me to decide if im playing my town or scum game but it sticks out that a number of players who know my style and have played with me as much as you are still reading me town with the same knowledge of both my game styles and personality....

 

I think I am showing it tbh.  if you think im scum explain why and vote. but dont try to think im not trying or attempting to evolve.  I am, maybe not fast enough for your personal tastes but then again since im reading you as null atp (havent really looked into you fully atp) your comment here is just kinda meh to me,

 

The whole evolving point is a little silly anyway...thats not basing anything on current game content or past games.  Its like saying I cant read Zander as town because he should play differently based on a game style he hasnt yet developed or shown or i wont read him as town or scum cause hes playing the same as town or scum.

 

Read my posts, evaluate what you think of them and my meta then decide and glgl.

 

 

I'm not asking you to change you, but the constant, I've answered that and abrupt replies when asked things, is not a good town look and you have been told about it by loads. Second bold, it's up to me to figure out but you show me you are town as well. By making the replies you have done to me shows as unhelpful, puts doubt that you can be town. Yo play Scum and Town the same, so saying I have played enough games with you to know is rubbish, I have told you before about your game, so this is not something new.

 

The two blue bits are contradictory, you say you are trying to change your game, and yet you think evolving is silly? You can still be you but note what people say (friends here) who try to say how you could improve, by showing thought process.

 

I find it odd that Laine reads you town off the bat, not sure how, as your game is not different from D1 of Belichick or any other, when town or mafia.

 

 

I am constantly me imo and i like me some me.

 

Im a man of many words....must of which no one understands including myself sometimes (id say sorry but I think the world would be a better place if everyone spoke fluent Zander)..  I may not word things the best but I am pretty good at finding wolves so thats kinda towny right?

 

#TeamDerp???

 

Nope...Im saying that YOU saying Im not evolving so you cant town read me or isnt a towny look is silly.

 

My thought process is beyond mortal comprehension.  But seriously I.am trying to be more concise but I'm a gut read kinda player and I miss some of the finer nuances that more experienced players pick up on so i go off of what pings me and try to explain why it bothers me.

 

If you say so....I don't agree but then im a little bias here....lolololololol

[Razen]

I was gone yesterday, so I'm spending today going through and making ISO's of people so I can look at positions and stuff with as clear a focus as I can.  I'm starting with Zander/Seph, and will probably be zigzagging my way through the roster as I spot things that I find interesting.  I'm not sure how far I will get.

So, without further ado,

Zander, part 1:

 

 

 

This is Zander's first interaction with Kivam over the AJ vote.  To me, it comes off as reasonable.  The "sleep it off and come back with a clearer head" theme seems to repeat itself as I look through Zander's posts.

 

 

I made a joke to shad about teaching our kids to vote for each other while at L-1. AJ counted it as a self hammer because i used vote tags. Complete BS and it just happened a few hours ago in a game i put a ton of effort into - apparently more than i should have. A total garbage decision by a bad mod Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

its one thing to be upset or mad about it but an all together different thing to carry it over and vote him over it.in this game.

 

not a pro-town move imo.

 

sleep it off and come back and hunt some wolves!!!!

 

 

 

To be fair, this was literally right at the start of the game.  Not sure what else he's supposed to come in with?

 

 

Bracing for 100 page days

 

 

 

I guess I'm going to McDonald's and eating it in the corner by myself then.

 

Doesn't get any scummier than this.  [v]Seph[/v]

 

 

i get that this is a joke vote but i do find it strange that this is all you come in here with.

 

if you're Town!Shad show it brother.

 

 

Two ways this one came off.  Egging on a Kiv/Mish train without committing to it yet and then leaving himself open to following up on that later.  But it also shows the same line of reasoning he employed in the first post he quoted - he pushed Kiv to sleep it off and come back.

 

 

-snip-

 

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

+1

 

 

i dont mind this at all atp.  wanna see more from them before id place a vote there.

 

 

 

She might have been ready to throw down, but I haven't seen much since that happened.  Moot point coming from me, considering I haven't been the most present either though.

 

 

 

I'm not liking Hallia's reaction towards Kivam/Mish.  She brought up two reasons for voting them - Kivam's policy lynch vote for Andrej and Mish's defensiveness regarding her response to Laine's proposal to lynch all hydras.  Hallia addressed the part about the policy lynch - because she feels it's an easy way to hop on and stay on Andrej's train.  I'm neutral on that response - it is, but it really only works for day 1.  But what about the part regarding Mish?  She changed their vote, and while it did come across as defensive, you can't say that Kivam/Mish's vote has stayed parked on one person as Hallia is claiming it would be easy to do.

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

 

 

i think she came in ready to throw down and wasnt afraid.  towny imo.

 

Sorry for the switch in where I put the commentary half-way through.  Also, can I say, wtf is wrong with the quotes here?  I can't get them to look nice at all.  I've spent more time trying to format them correctly than I have actually typing my thoughts.

 

 

 

You might as well choose 8 other random slots and focus on eliminating through them first. There is no logic in choosnig hydras specifically first. If you're gonna try and lynch me, do it on my actions, not because I'm hydra or have a odd-numbered slot or whatever. It's just an excuse for setting up lynches and I really don't ffeel it.

Overreaction?

 

this ^^^

Question here: What do you think about Mish's overreaction here (to use the post you quoted), Zander?  It's one thing to point it out and agree with Shad, another to say what strikes it as an overreaction and what you thought about that.

 

 

Oh I see. This is ongoing.

Difference between Laine and Kivam is Kivam has a fuse and Laine has a rule. These things speak to their mentality. Therefore if Kivam uses the fuse to not play the game, this is bad. Whereas Laine can continue using her rule of thumb as long as there is genuine progression.

 

cant say i dont like this post.

Posted for my own reference, really.  Sili is on point with that observation, but you have to hold both ends of it up.  Zander agreeing with it is a good sign to me - it's a good observation, but I will definitely be returning to this later when I go through others posts.  Because people seem to have forgotten about the second part.

 

 

 

 

OK, genuinely not liking the byplay between Sili and Hally there.  Have no idea what the relevant difference they're relying on is.  Someone care to explain?
 
Cory, can you explain that read?

Wait, really?

 

You (seemingly) voted AJ due to anger carried over from another game.  It had nothing to do with this one.

 

Laine is (seemingly) using her hydra position to try and figure out this game.  But obviously her position on LAH needs to change with evidence/reads, so she needs to have some kind of progression.  Otherwise it's a poor excuse for play.

 

 

Yes, really.  Trying very hard to stick to the PG13 guidelines here.  So ... no stuff, my very first ingame vote, made what, an hour? after the game opened had nothing to do with content from this game.  Nobody's vote at that stage ever has anything to do with anything from the current game.  So people are getting on me because I posted a ventvote instead of a jokevote? Seriously?

 

You know what, whatever.  I'm going to take a break from this game for a bit because at the moment I'm not having any fun at all.  Will be back in a few RL days.  Let me know if I'm dead. 

 

 

 

I have no meta on Kiv but is this normal for him??

 

Also taking a little break is cool but for days is not very pro town imo.

The same theme from earlier returns.  Kiv's emotion as not being pro-town, telling him to cool off and come back with a level head.  Preferably sooner than the days he mentioned though. I think really, at this point, if he moves too much from that position, it's more suspicious than him bringing it up.

 

 

[wish-tree]

Gonna be coming back home today! Still sleep-deprived and meh, but I will post.

Not sure if Celeste has showed up yet?

 

(Woooo 'twas really fun playing real life Mafia, randing vanilla every round, and getting NKed Day 1/2 each time... Cause the Mafs thought I would ferret them out. Meh. Suck it up. -thoughts about retreat... I haven't been doing nothing!)

[csarmi]

Hi Wish.

[csarmi]

And did you ferret them out?

[csarmi]

Anything fun going on here? I am sitting on the beach waiting for my lunch.

[wish-tree]

And did you ferret them out?

I died before I could really say anything. Died straight out of RVS. Watching town lose that last round was so painful. (And lol, apparently the last round, the Mafia attempted to NK me N1, but the narrator killed the person sitting next to me instead.)

 

Hi Csarmi :3 Thoughts on the current votes on Hallia, Sephander, and Kivish?

[wish-tree]

5 more minutes until I need to go...

[csarmi]

No idea. Liked Hallya on the few pages i read.

 

I cant read Zander. He is lolololol all the time and all enthusiastic - my mind naturally filters him out after a while.

[wish-tree]

No idea. Liked Hallya on the few pages i read.

 

I cant read Zander. He is lolololol all the time and all enthusiastic - my mind naturally filters him out after a while.

Alright. Atm, I would like more content from you so I can ask questions and actually get a read on you.

Gotta go, catch you guys later.

[Razen]

Zander, part 2:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great, 15 pages already. Ollie is playing swat the phone out of my hands and I won't be around for long, catching up on what I can.

Bet you can't teach him to say [v]Kivam[/v] before I can teach mine to say [v]Shad[/v]

Are you voting here? I can't tell.

 

NOW THAT'S SOME GOOD MODERATION.

 

Nope, that was banter, not a vote.  Excellent way of clarifying an otherwise ambiguous post.

 

(Stopping now, I promise)

 

 

this still......

 

He's returned to that point I made in the first set.  The "sleep it off and come back with a clearer head" point.  It's consistent.  Which I think is a good thing.  And I found the issue that caused me to get so flustered with the quotes here, haha.  This one goes right where the commentary switched in part 1.  So returning to where I should be, continuing from part 1.

 

 

 

 

Zander am I a total sucker for starting to think that less lolololol and more !!!!!!! makes you town?

 

Let's be town warriors together again plz

 

...I don't know what to do with this post.  Zander was one of the best townies in Star Wars and IIRC he LOLOLOLed heavily that game.  

 

 

i answered in response to Shad earlier but i want to be taking somewhat seriously especially with all the new players.

 

 

Zander....talk to me.  I feel like you've been posting a ton, but I don't remember any stances/thoughts, and the only thing that jumps out when I ISO you is a post where you back seemingly encourage people voting Kiv and say that you don't have enough to vote him yourself.  That doesn't really follow to me.  Give me something I can work with.

 

Hey i dont like the emo rage stuff.  Not sure because of meta with Mish but seemed like she overreacted to Laine early on.  Im just waiting on seph to catch up and discuss what he thinks but as of right now i believe its the best place for our vote tbh.

 

So he's still consistent with not liking the emo/rage stuff from Kivam.  Sticking to his theme of "sleep it off."

 

 

 

 

I have a mild concern about a player but I am not going to air it out yet

 

The player I was concerned about was BFG.

At the time BFG had made a single post:

 

Good morning :)

 

Innocuous enough. I think this is about ~8 AM her time, so a checking in before work/whatever type deal. I expected she'd post a couple of times and chat around before her volume dropped off, as she's been very comfortable and very involved in her last handful of villager games. 

 

Nothing followed this. Again, not going to condemn someone who could be having a busy morning, IDK what people's IRL deals are, whatever. But it reminded me of something I had mentally noted down in 9 to 5 mafia when I was her mafia partner for a day (she subbed out around ~n1) - BFG has some trouble naturally interacting in real time with people as Mafia. IDK if it's just that little trigger in your brain that looks over a post and goes "should I post?" not hitting out of some weird self-consciousness, but I remember it there, and I remember in the one day I was playing with her I was making sure to talk to her ITT and give her lines to pursue because she wasn't really moving on her own volition.

 

She was more active in a different Mafia game - AH's Pokemon game - and I am going to look it over when I get time, but even know her contribution is one "larger" more succinct reads posts where she discusses various things (#582) but again is not really interested in communicating openly and in real-time. Reminds me a lot of Cass tbh - assumes people will find a wall of words / reads villagery and leave it alone for some time, but lacks the minute-by-minute commitment and willingness to relax and discuss ITT.

 

Not a condemnation and I want to to chew on it some more but if I would guess this is Mafia!BFG more often than Town!BFG by a fair margin.

 

 

interesting to keep in mind.  BFG usually pretty clear early on as Town.  But wanna give her some time as Clov's natural evilness could be influencing poor BFG!!!!

 

lololololol

This is the point where I start to have a concern.  He brings up that Clov being her partner could be influencing BFG's play.  Cory's point is two-fold - BFG is having a busy morning and doesn't have the time to follow up.  But it's also that he's using a meta argument to push a narrative that he believes BFG might be mafia.  I don't see how Clov as her hydra partner plays into this at all.  They might be using their QT to bounce ideas back and forth on, who knows.  But this kind of stinks.

 

But he is consistent about giving BFG time to establish herself ITT, like he did with the situation regarding Hallia's vote on Kiv/Mish and Laine's +1 of that.  That part is good.  Means that up to this point, there isn't a double standard with this regard.

 

 

 

Sili - why disappointing? You're misreading my subjective intent, the same way clov and nyn are. No amount of arguing is going to convince you about what's in my head, so what's the point? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

He's consistently consistent - still not liking the emotional stuff that he's seeing  You can approach it how you want, but he's not swerved at all from his path.  And it's good to note that up to this point, he hasn't voted for Kivam/Mish - he's sticking to his approach of waiting to give them time.

 

 

 

 

prolly a few more then that....
 
again with these types of comments!!!
 
this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

I don't even know what to think. Kivam dropped me off a cliff.

 

 

i think hes a wolf.

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

be towny and hunt wolves

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Your reads are not progressing, nor are you making my job easier.

I do not know what 'subjective' content is. Fact is, one way or another, you misrepresented me. If you believe otherwise, you should be broadcasting your case.

Furthermore it is incorrect to presume a conversation is meaningless because you don't like the topic.

 

 

this ^^^^

 

 

and finally..... [v] Kish Hydra [/v]

 

This is the point where he establishes that he's seeing Kiv/Mish as scum and places his hydra's vote on them.

 

 

 

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me. Not crazily enough for the misread to be inherently scummy, though I'd be willing to bet scum will jump on the opportunity to keep pushing it, which has me looking cross-eyed at Zander. I'm fairly sure Cory, Clov, and Sili are town, leery of Hally, and otherwise pretty much blank on everyone else. Playing the game on tapatalk and between crises at work doesn't give me much room to do deep analysis of the thread. If i survive long enough that will change (it had better) but as a townie the only real reason i care about avoiding a D1 lynch is obligation to mish. No complex plans this game, no long cons, no false trails to lay ... no obligations to anyone but her. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

uncross your eyes imo as i started commenting on you pretty early.  only reason it took as long for my vote was this is my 1st hydra and i wanted to go over it with him..

 

stop acting emo/defensive.

 

build a case on someone man

 

its not hard.  but sense you dont seem to want to...you HAVE to understand where all the heat you're getting is coming from. especially with the Pral vote and explanation it was just...weird imo.

 

1st line - he's got a point.  Zander was in on Kiv almost right from the get-go.  As to the rest of it, I think he's giving himself an opportunity to move his vote should Kivam satisfactorily explain himself and move on from what Zander terms the emo/defensive outlook.  He also notes that he didn't like the Pral vote.

 

Not pushing my luck with quotes, so part 3 commences shortly.

 

 

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Sephander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivish (6): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Shad, Sili, Laine

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

John Snow (1): Pral

Laine (1): Yates

Hallia (1): Talya

 

 

Not Voting (5): Csarmi, Wish/Celeste, Nolderf, AJ, Kivish

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

[Cory Caboose]

I think it's pretty amusing how many players are talking down to me ITG

 

Like I won't reassess with new information

 

Or that I have no clue what I am doing and need to chill

 

I feel like most of you (exception being maybe Kiv) should know better than that

[Razen]

Zander, pt. 3:

 

 

 

Trying to keep track of all the people I can.

 

 

Town Reads

 

Hallia- Like her spunk.  came in ready to go with no fear.

Nyn- straight to the point, pulling no punches. liked her posts.

Sili- started to get the game in gear.  making solid points.

Alanna- Playing more like her Town!Alanna self.

 

Scum-

 

Kiv/Mish- emo posts, overreactions, defensive, not game solving.

 

Rest will take a while.

The first read list we get.  He confirms - Kiv/Mish is sitting in his scum pile, and it's consistent with what he's been saying.  He's found Kivam emotional and defensive up to this point, hasn't liked that Mish has overreacted, and accuses them both of not solving the game up to this point.  The last point, I think it the best - the others can be open to a meta-interpretation, should you wish to go that route.

 

For this point in the game, I agree with Hallia, Nyn, and Sili on this list.  Hallia drops off later, and I've not really been able to pay attention to Sili/Nyn since I put my own thoughts out about them.  The one I don't get, is Alanna.  To be completely fair, I haven't reread her opening posts.  But she does stick to her initial focus of lynching all hydras.  But doesn't really expound on how to go through a process of elimination on them.  She then got way behind - meaning kept her vote parked on the last hydra she'd voted in her initial post.  But she hadn't really said anything about Nolder/Darthe (I believe), and was more looking at Kiv/Mish.

 

 

 

[v]Wombat[/v]

 

Seems people are starting to echo my thoughts here.

 

Need to leave for work now, I'll try to peek at the thread throughout the day if I get the chance.

 

can you touch on Wombo a bit more AJ?  is it just inactivity.  or just a prod vote??

 

I like this question from Zander - AJ's vote kind of came out of the blue and I think an explanation beyond "an initial gut read and people seem to be echoing my thoughts" is in order.  Possibly was provided later - I haven't reached that point yet. 

 

 

 

Cool.

 

Town:

Razen

Hallia

Sili

Nyn

Bfg

Nol

AJ

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Not feeling the Kivam/Mish lynch atm. 

 

you know nothing John Snow

 

also care to elaborate please?

 

Dismisses John Snow's reads list.  Wants to see elaboration.  There were a few other people that pointed this out (I recall Nyn being one of them) and I would like to add my voice here. There's no reason to any of these.  I'm getting the feeling it could be a reaction test for the people up there - so it's really null at this point until an explanation is provided.

 

 

 

It was this post, Cory.

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a
Stay and share.
Hally,real quick. Are you town?

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.
all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

 

It just read increidbly awkward to me.  He's making a joke to Hallia, and then immediately turns around and asks if she's town.  It's like he wants to show that he's comfortable with her but then acts like he's not.  

 

But tbh, it's probably more about Zander than Seph at this point.  I feel his actual contribution to the game doesn't match the amount of posts he has and is just trying to remain visible

 

seriously clov???  you read star wars or mass effect man?  i post a lot and no not all of it is game related.  but as you know im more of a gut player.  im comfortable with everyone as you also know away from mafia.  im not great sometimes with how i word stuff but meh i do my best.

 

i think my problem is while others who dont knnow me may have some of thess concerns i feel like you know the difference.

 

I'm not really a big fan of the meta defense - I've pointed this out in the other game that I played with him too.  I don't want to read back through other games to see "what I did as town there and why I must be town in this one since I'm doing the same thing here."  Kiv pointed this out in a comment - the good players can keep their metas consistent across alignment.

 

 

 

I thought you were wrong because I didn't see 2 remaining scum knowing I was a survivor.

 

which is all fine man. but you're missing my point.  you're voting me for my "inane" read on Kivish,  yet ive made "inane" reads before.  which by your answer here makes my SW case on Yates/Sili for example even more inane so you can hopefully see why im not fully following your reasoning here.i hope.

 

Another meta argument. I've said this before: use THIS game to establish your points.  It's far enough along in D1 at this point to where you shouldn't be relying on what you do in other games to explain your actions here.

 

 

I also dont understand why Im getting flack for my read of Kiv's emo stuff when IM NOT the only one doing so??  if its something else please let me know.  ive also listed other reasons for my vote so im not getting it,

 

Also if I missed anything directed at me please let me know.

Comes off as a little desperate, but he does have a point.  I believe there were other people that had pointed out the Kiv emo angle, but they weren't getting pushed for it either.  Perhaps it's because Zander was pushing it the hardest?  It's something I'm going to pay attention to when I go through the other ISO's for today.

 

 

 

 

 

Wish - a. may return as true, but if so, I don't know about it.  The only other truly dedicated lurker in this game (based on my experience) is Hallia, and she was already actively posting (and had recently said she was making an effort to be more active).  Keep in mind what I said earlier - I have a lot of mafia experience, but not with most of these players (there's a reason Wombat said he didn't buy my emo headfake, but pretty much everyone else did ... he's played with me for years).  So wrt most of this game's players, asking me if they usually lurk as scum makes as much sense as asking you if they do.  I just don't know the answer.

Got it. *nod nod*

What you say here seems genuine. Why did you emo headfake? I don't understand that.

 

 

Because in my last game (the one I just accidentally self-lynched in), Shad and I got into an argument about the utility of using emo as a towntell.  I said it could be faked, started to fake it but didn't carry it through, and he said "well, I didn't believe it anyway".

 

And since I'm an INTP, I took that as a challenge

 

Pretty sure I won the argument; so if it gets me lynched in this game, it was still worth it

 

 

JFC are you kidding me man???!!! 

 

This is about as far from a Pro-Town play as I think I've seen since Heart was mislynced as an Un CC'd Doc in SW.

 

So your ego is more important then game solving??!!!

Zander starts to come off as frustrated here. This is not the first time he's accused the Kiv/Mish slot of not attempting to solve the game.  He's established that he sees Kivam's actions as being very far from pro-town.  The last statement might be a little over the top, but it fits in with the not attempting to solve the game point.

 

 

 

cause i thought i did answer your question....numerous times as i mentioned.  dude just stop.  you know if you had i dont know....tried to game solve, build cases and give reads instead of creating this plague of stupidity with your "fake emo reveal test bs" and trying to stroke your ego  this Thread would be in a much better state.

Do you want to lynch him?

 

 

gonna let seph look at it with a fresh set of eyes man. like not sure if its backtracking or not. i have also had other things here that have pinged me form this slos.  thus far seems like the best bet.  but i also need to go over some others as well

 

I don't like that he's bringing up backtracking, but it never hurts to re-evaluate your reads.  I think this shows that he's not tunneling hard on Kiv/Mish and is open to hearing what other people have to say.

 

Here ends part 3.  I hope I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on this one!

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

From the hip

 

Nyn/Dice

Razen

Yates

 

Hallia

Sili

wish-tree/Celeste

Wombat/Ocicat

Clov/BFG

AJ

Seph/Zander

Shad

Pralaya

 

Kivam/Mish

Talya

Laine

John Snow

Csarmi

Lenlo

Nolder/Darthe

 

I am staying home from the beach this morning to try and go through AJ's posts in depth but I remember liking what I saw on skim

 

If I had to choose a wagon between Kivam/Z I'd go Kivam but I think there's at least a decent deal we've had v/v wagons the whole day and the wolves just don't care and are mailing it in

 

 

 

[Kivam]

I woke up early because I had a nightmare that Hallia was mafia

 

What the hell is wrong with me

 

Your subconscious was trying to tell you something.

[Cory Caboose]

 

I woke up early because I had a nightmare that Hallia was mafia

 

What the hell is wrong with me

 

Your subconscious was trying to tell you something.

 

 

I think I read her exceptionally well but I am mildly concerned in her drop in involvement

 

It's easier for her (and most NF types afaict) to wolf convincingly for a day or two but it becomes much more difficult over time

 

Hallia is pretty much the world's biggest sweetheart and she does not enjoy deceiving people the way some Mafia players do and while she will ultimately put in effort for her team, she can't sustain it over a long period of time because she feels bad about it and can't really engage the way she does as a villager

 

(but meta reads are terrible, ldo)

[Razen]

Zander, pt. 4:

 

 

 

 

 

-snip the pyramid-

 
cause i thought i did answer your question....numerous times as i mentioned.  dude just stop.  you know if you had i dont know....tried to game solve, build cases and give reads instead of creating this plague of stupidity with your "fake emo reveal test bs" and trying to stroke your ego  this Thread would be in a much better state.

This sort of looks like back tracking which I have seen scum do on my home site but it could also be a null tell. What do you think of your accusers?

 

i was thinking the same tbh.

 

i dont get it but it is what it is.

Did you ever respond to what Celeste asked you here, Zander?  I think it's a very good question.  I'm not sure if that second line was your response, but it's not really an answer.

 

 

 

Catching up, on page 55

 

I still haven't seen scum from Zander, I don't see what people are voting him for o.O

 

I am ok with ClovFG at the moment.

 

I really like Wish's posting style!  I feel a kindred spirit there

 

Continuing on.

 

me neither imo

 

wanna re read them.  BFG hasnt seemed like her usual full fledged town self yet.  but its a huge game with a ton of posts and shes hydra.  clov is clov...i have 0 idea how to read him, so wanna look into them,

 

me too and i can can see that....lolololololol

 

He returns to BFG here, after Hallia re-enters the game.  He brings up what he said before when Cory made his point, that he felt like BFG hasn't really sounded like her town-game.  Meta argument here.  But he does point out that there are a ton of posts and that she might not have had time.  Still wants to look into them.  I'm hoping to see that he did as I progress through the last part.

 

 

 

 

 

Last I saw Kivam was in the lead. Nyn might be tunneling mish. While I think mish overreacted, I don't understand the full picture. Nyn said Kivam was covering for Mish' behavior.

 

 

Nyn is taking apart Mish's posts to build a narrative. It's a tunnel. In particular I don't agree that Mish expecting more substantive votes on her contradicts not feeling the votes already placed.

 

 

I haven't been tunneling Mish. I've been asking her questions, that by the by, she's yet to answer. Mish's overreaction in itself is irrelevant to me. She gets dramatic all the time, so it's not some kind of tell with her (which I've pointed out already). People who don't know her, though, would normally see it that way. As for me? I need to lean on her to get a good feel. I don't really care how it makes me look. That's how I roll and it's not about to change.

 

The issues I have with Kivam I've already covered. Nothing he said made me feel better about that slot. My issue with her I can expand on, in case it wasn't clear. She expressed her opinion on the hydra matter and placed a vote on Alanna. I actually liked the way she explained herself and said as much at the time. Then Kiv stepped in, gave her the mathematical explanation and she folded. But then later when questioned again about it (by Cory, I think), she went back to saying it's BS. I know that she said Kivam is like half mentoring her or whatever. But I don't care about Kivam's clout. And if she ended up agreeing with him, then why did she revert back to her original stance? I know Mish and I think that her getting momentarily complacent with a fap explanation from the oh so great Kiv is uncharacteristic of her. In some ways she's as stubborn as me and so it sticks out to me that she would do that when she sounded so determined . It's fine if you don't agree, but that's the impression I'm getting from it.

 

 

This slot seems to be big on excuses. Oh Kiv is mentoring me, so that's why I did that. Oh I wasn't really referring to meta, cause I don't believe in meta ldo, I just said that to lure Pral to post, oh I only did a shout out to pral and not other people who didn't check in, cause he's the only one of them I know. Oh I wasn't really being emo, I was just faking it cause bla bla bla bliddy bla. My god, I'm just so misunderstood.     This slot is dirty. Kill it with fire.

 

 

I like this post!!'

 

im not the greatest at explaining things concisely I just go with my gut.  The fact that Nyn who is an excellent player is reading them like this makes me feel more comfortable in my gut read.

 

its like in SW when I had went after Yates,  I couldnt explain myself in a way that others could/would follow and it wasnt till seph built the case that it got done.

 

Feels to me like Zander is buttering Nyn up a bit here.  But he does say that he's a gut player, which I think is coming across in his posting style.  He fully admits that it is a weakness of his too, which is definitely not a bad thing.

 

 

 

Awake for a few mins. What's the current drama?

 

 

Nolder:  You or Darthe have any reads or general thoughts atp?

 

I like that he calls Nolder/Darthe out here.  Up to this point, I'm sure if they'd really gotten into game mode at all.

 

 

@ Yates who is on your POE?

I'll admit, I haven't looked at Yates very closely up to this point.  I'm noting this for when I look at him.

 

 

 

1. Razen - seen a couple posts by him looks good so far.
2. Wombicat (Wombat/Ocicat) - wombat is talkative but haven't seen him do any real scumhunting, I'm guilty of this myself so w/e. no idea who OC Cat is.
3. Seph/Zander hydra - No opinon.
4. Hallia - Good so far.
5. Sili - Dirty filthy spammer that needs to be eradicated for everyone's sanity.
6. Kivish (Kivam/Mish) - Like Mish's posts and don't dislike Kivs posts. Think there is probably already at least 1 scum on their train hoping it will build.
7. Laine -  no opinion
8. Shad - no opinion
9. Talya - seen a couple posts but didn't read'em. Seems to be keeping up so good chance of being town.
10. Pralaya - no opinion. Has he checked in yet?
11. Lenlo - no opinion
12. Yates - Seems invested in some conversation or another. Yates is a tryhard though so that's pretty null imo.
13. Nyce (Nyn/Dice) - haven't really read their posts but I hope they are town because that's a scary combo
14. John Snow - no opinion
15. ClovFG (Clov/BFG) - BFG is nice. Clov I don't know very well. no real opinion
16. Beck Csarmi - I guess he posted but I didn't see it
17. CorKey (Cory/Keyholder) - Haven't noticed key posting but Cory seems to have good thread presence. don't think he has a problem with that as scum though. I'd guess if he's really keeping notes ask to see some of them eventually and if true he's town. I've never known scum to keep notes myself.
18. wish-tree/Celeste hydra - they seem talkative no real opinion on them though
19. Nolderf (Nolder/Darthe) - please kills us. this is an abomination.
20. AJ - no opinion

 

have you been reading this game at all??

 

Accuses Nolder of skimming.  Did you look through the list, Zander?  What did you think of these reads?  Second question is to people in general.  I'll address this if/when I get to Nolder.

 

 

AJ- I need to see some more of.  i have no idea:

Clov/BFG-  Cant read Clov.  BFG usually pretty clear towny atp.  im not seeing it yet.

Nolder/Darthe-????

Wish- Stil looking pretty towny

Wombo- Same with AJ.

Yates- Looking good

Cory'Key- Ive had no problems here.

Talya- Havent seen her usual self. null

John Snow- I always think he's scummy...lolololol par for the course.

A partial read list.  Organized better for my own sanity:

 

Town leans:

Wish/Celeste hydra - bolded cuz he mentioned Wish only

Yates

Cory/Key hydra

 

Nulls:

AJ

Clov/BFG hydra

Nolder/Darthe hydra

Wombat/Ocicat hydra

Talya

 

Scum:

John Snow - but says it's a reaction he always has.

 

 

 

 

You called a post AtE when it clearly wasn't.  When pressed on it, you gave some lame excuse about meaning to quote his previous posts.  An excuse I don't buy.  Furthermore, adding in Kiv's statement that his emo-fest was a gambit and that you still haven't let up on him for it as far as I can tell, this looks even more like you are ignoring some very pertinent details.  It's like you found an easy narrative for Kiv (that he's emo and therefore scum) and locked it in.  That doesn't look to me like the behavior of a townie trying to find scum.  That looks to me like the behavior of mafia trying to find a townie who is playing poorly and is therefore a lynch target.

 

 

 

 

Kiv ain't sloppy dude.  There's always a purpose.  Usually multiple purposes.  If he's scum, it's not because of this.  The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts.  His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

 

 

im seeing a disconnect with the bold.

 

and i find something scummy i go after it.  and its like 1/2 through day 1... nothing is LOCKED IN.  No one has looked scummier thus far imo.  the AtE ive went over already. 

 

Ill keep on this to unless I have reason not to,

 

I don't see a disconnect in the bold.  It's pretty clear that what Wombat is saying is that you look like you're trying to find a townie playing poorly so you can push a lynch.  Implying that a) he thinks you're scum, b) that Kivam is playing poorly, and c) that he's reading Kivam as town.  Because the second part that you bolded shows that he's saying that Kiv is calculating.  Meaning that all of his actions have a purpose.  Which I think lends weight to what I'm getting from the statements.

 

End of this part.  I think there's one last part coming, then my read on this half of the hydra.  Possibly the same post, we'll see what comes up.

 

 

[Kivam]

 

But what really struck a chord with me was his reasoning for voting Pral. He dismissed my comments about it, but it's right there. He was trying to misrep Pral. It's great that he only played with him as scum.... but he can't make an accusation based on meta if he doesn't know Pral's overall meta. His responses ranged between.... oh I only played with him as scum so that's all I know.... to him claiming that his vote was just made for reaction since Pral hasn't checked in yet. Which I don't really buy. He could have dropped a nudge vote for activity rather than use a bogus meta reason for that vote.

Thought I'd look at it. Kivam ISO and ctrl+F Pral I see:<snip>

Last two came after your post. It all reads fairly consistent to me. Maybe an intentional misrep in his first post--it struck me enough to correct him at the time--but I don't see a range in the responses from there. I thought it was a misrep but didn't assume it intentional and it's the sort of thing people who've played with town!Pral can easily correct. I'm pretty null on it.

 

Shad nails it again.  For those thinking I was trying to generate pressure on Pral based on false meta, how exactly was I hoping for that to work?

[Kivam]

 

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me.

Like who? Do you think it's intentional? What is/are he/she/they misreading?

 

Personally, I'm not worried about the hydra hunting stuff. That's a discussion we had quite recently [star Wars, I think?].

 

I also don't care about the vendetta thing; though I would have counted both of your votes from earlier when Kaylee asked instead. If you use vote formatting, I think it's a vote. And I don't think it's crazy for a mod to count it, regardless of the situation. People actually DO self-vote for whatever reason. So it's not unreasonable to assume that a vote statement formatted as a vote will be counted as a vote. So really, I think that's on you without knowing anything else about it - but I digress. I don't want to make an argument out of something that isn't really any of my business.

 

I *do* agree that the Pral stuff looks bad. I get that you prod inactives. I think you told us that was your Town meta when you voted for him as our team mate. I'm not even really bothered by the vote itself. What's bothering me is how you chose to explain the vote. If you said something as simple as "I picked a name out of a hat" or "Pral is the only inactive I know so I prodded him," then I don't think this would even still be an issue.

 

I'm not trying to gang up on you here. I just want you to understand at least where *I* am coming from so maybe you can help me understand where *YOU* are coming from. Thanks.

 

 

Like this post from Yates given his later progression on this issue

[Razen]

Zander, pt. 5:

 

 

 

 

 

@ Yates who is on your POE?

Easier question to answer is who is NOT...

- I've had Hally and Nyn green from early on.

 

Ya me too

- I love Key's posts but she's paired up with Cory so it's hard to give them an early green. In any case, they aren't in my Day 1 lynch pile.

 

Agreed

- I actually kind of like Razen. He's easy to follow, anyway. Reminds me of the other Alanna. In a good way.

 

Only played once with him,  not a lot of Meta to go on

- I feel like Kivish was taking some heat early, got defensive, and got stuck in that defensive mode. That heat seems to have cooled off so I'm waiting to see what direction they go in now that they aren't against the ropes.

 

Can you touch on this slot for me.  Ive not been liking it at all but perhaps you have some meta or insight to share.  I havent played with either,

- I'm a little concerned about NolDerf keeping such a low profile. I don't think this game/activity is bigger than either of them so I won't buy that as an excuse.

 

Yes this ^^^^

- I haven't seen anything from BFG worth a whole lot and Clov has been hard to follow so I'm keeping an eye open there.

 

Mentioned the same myself

 

- Also not sure how I feel about the wish/celeste hydra - though some of that might just be me not knowing them.

 

Ive like the tone and relaxed gameplay thus far

- I'm kind of cautious about you guys. I'm not seeing a lot of reads development. Maybe expect that less from you but certainly from Seph.

 

Fair enough tbh i havent spoken much to him.

- I was also expecting a lot more content from Lainey and Talya. Like, even though Talya was scum in Bellicheat? I want to see that kind of effort and probing.

 

Alanna pretty towny imo.  Tayla null this far to me.

Mostly, there's just this huge swath of nulls.

 

 

FYI- Red is me.

 

Yates POE is provided, so glad I can cross that off the list of things to look for.  Zander responds to Yates' read list and provides his thoughts.

 

This is Zander's comments off of Yates' list of people NOT on the POE for today.

 

Town leans:

Hally

Nyn

Key/Cory - Key is in the town leans, Cory is null.

Wish/Celeste - I'm inferring this one from liking their tone and relaxation.

Laine

 

Nulls:

Razen

Talya

 

Look more ats:

Clov/BFG

Nolder/Darthe

 

Scum leans:

Kiv/Mish (I'm assuming from the language)

 

 

 

 

Catching up at work, I feel like I like how Wombat is posting, I like the energy, but I don't like his reads. Primarily on Zander/Kiv. Yates is so so town. I dunno yet on Laine, but she feels relaxed to me.

 

Can you please touch on this a bit Hallia.

 

Note to self: Did Hallia address this?

 

 

 

Zander - Can you please take a look at Lainey in ISO and honestly tell me that she is playing her Town game?

 

I'll try to get an ISO on her but in general:

 

Having both played town and scum with her recently I feel Alanna is more cautious. careful and easily defensive as Scum!Alanna.  Like shes worried about how others are reading her.  I find this game shes posting thoughts on people without knowing people's alignment.  I like her tone and shes not backing down or away from her reads. In a nutshell I dont feel shes playing the same way as Bellicheat but more like ME imo.

 

I've also seen some well shes just spinning her wheels type comments and to that I say its D1 on a 28 person game.....calm down.  This crazy game of Mafia we love can take some time to get into the zone for some of us.

 

Explains his town read of Laine.  Likes her tone and not-backing down towards reads.  Based on meta.  Defends her by saying it might take some time to get into the zone.

 

 

 

I'm here, doing my reread.

 

@ Alanna, you don't like Kiv doing what he did for his own agenda, why does this make you think scum rather than null?

 

about Zander - Every game I'm in I try to improve and take note of what people say, my game is evolving all the time, and try different things. However you and others have told Zander over and over about his game and he never evolves it. after our last game I feel like he won't change it because when he is scum he will use it to cover himself. If he was town, wouldn't you think he would want to show it more, instead of relying on old SW Zander that everyone loved. It's a cliche and how do you justify calling him town because of it?

 

I know this was at Alanna but i wanted to comment here cause im not a fan of this assessment of me:

 

Well im not as good of a player as you yet but i do feel im changing and evolving my game some.  After SW and Bellicheat everyone was after me to stop with the excessive lolololololol, !!!!!!!! and CAPSYELL.  which I think ive been doing for the most part this game

 

I wont change my tone, personality and general play style because theres not a different DM Zander, A Skype Zander, A Mafia Zander and an RL Zander....they are all one in the same.  Dont like it....tough cookies my dear.  Thats not to say Im not trying to get a little better each game cause thats my goal each time out.  Also in red that sounds like sound strategy imo.  But thats on you  to figure out right?  You've played enough games with me to decide if im playing my town or scum game but it sticks out that a number of players who know my style and have played with me as much as you are still reading me town with the same knowledge of both my game styles and personality....

 

I think I am showing it tbh.  if you think im scum explain why and vote. but dont try to think im not trying or attempting to evolve.  I am, maybe not fast enough for your personal tastes but then again since im reading you as null atp (havent really looked into you fully atp) your comment here is just kinda meh to me,

 

The whole evolving point is a little silly anyway...thats not basing anything on current game content or past games.  Its like saying I cant read Zander as town because he should play differently based on a game style he hasnt yet developed or shown or i wont read him as town or scum cause hes playing the same as town or scum.

 

Read my posts, evaluate what you think of them and my meta then decide and glgl.

 

So, Zander really doesn't like Talya's comment here.  I think she makes a fair point that Kivam touched on earlier in the thread - the better players will keep the meta consistent between roles.  Zander seems to defend himself for not changing his style?  I could be misinterpreting this, but that's what it's coming across to me as.  Confirming Talya as null for a read.

 

And whew.  I'm done with this part.

 

 

 

The read:

 

 

Because I'm mean, I'm keeping this part spoilered.  Means you have to read at least part of what I said, haha.

 

Zander is remarkably consistent in his approach towards pushing people.  He's mentioned that he wanted to give Kiv/Mish time to establish themselves, and voted them after he mentioned several times he didn't like the approach that they were pushing. He also stuck to his guns about the emotional angle, even when called out repeatedly for it.  He didn't drastically change his assessment of them, but I think it shows that he factored in what Kiv was saying by waiting to place the vote.  So it actually doesn't look that bad to me.  The way he's worded it, he's allowed himself to factor in evidence as it comes in and seems to be working to change that by interacting with others, Yates in particular.  It does not come off as tunneling to me - which I think is the key factor in putting things in.

 

He also gave BFG the same courtesy he extended towards Kivam and Mish in wanting to see more before placing a vote. 

 

He's made a few very good points that I am looking for when I continue - I want to see how other people pushed the Kiv emo angle.  He asked AJ a question about Wombat that I am hoping to see addressed when I look that way.  He's also asked Hallia about her thoughts regarding Wombat that I wish to see addressed.

 

There are a few points I didn't like though.  He still hasn't given up the meta defense angle that I so despise, ignored Celeste's question about what he thought of his accusers, or at least didn't answer it satisfactorily in my opinion.  He didn't follow up either on his expressed wish to re-examine Clov/BFG.

 

Keeping the above in mind, I'm placing the Zander half of Zander/Seph in the light town pile.

 

Next up, is his other half - Seph.

 

[Razen]

And...I totally didn't close that spoiler tag, haha.  Oh well.  You get the point!

[Yates]

This post is probably going to be underwhelming since my eyes are starting to glaze over and I think I'm skimming the wot's more than I should. But I don't care atp [see my statement to Csarmi if you need an excuse]

 

...I don't recall any of the stances you've made in the game thus far

My opinion of you.

 

 

I dont back down and i dont care how that makes me look. 

 

Townie Zander post imo.

 

This is why anyone that was in or read the Belicheat game isn't giving Zander the slack he once enjoyed:

I don't back off of something when I think I'm right and I TRULY believe that I am right here.

Wolf Zander is clearly aware of his Town meta and isn't afraid to use it.

 

I wont change my tone, personality and general play style because theres not a different DM Zander, A Skype Zander, A Mafia Zander and an RL Zander....they are all one in the same.

Never change, imo. Just understand that when you burn people with your meta, you can't rely on meta as a defense anyomore either, compadre.

 

Serious question; based on what I just said, do you think Town Laine should have had a Town read on Town Zander that early in the game? I can't say I was surprised to see her call you Town but I *was* surprised at how little her Town read was based on given the Belicheat game. I mean, I didn't read your scum QT but I've got to imagine you two spoke strategy, right?

 

Anything fun going on here? I am sitting on the beach waiting for my lunch.

My wife gave me her virus. All of my body hurts, my head hurts, it's hard to concentrate, and I have diarreaha. I couldn't hate you more right now. So you have a LOT of work to do to make it up to me.

 

 

Kivam/Mish

Talya

Laine

John Snow

Csarmi

Lenlo

Nolder/Darthe

 

I am staying home from the beach this morning to try and go through AJ's posts in depth but I remember liking what I saw on skim

 

If I had to choose a wagon between Kivam/Z I'd go Kivam but I think there's at least a decent deal we've had v/v wagons the whole day and the wolves just don't care and are mailing it in

To the bold; I think I agree. Something about dead air dead village.

 

This I can work with, though. We're almost half way through Sunday and I don't know how many people are actually going to be reading today so I'd really like to start focusing the scum hunting a bit. I don't like having to rely on CFD's at the end of the day. That's how you get uncountered BP Cops lynched in hybrid games. [not that I'm still bitter <_<]

 

I know I missed some stuff I wanted to comment on. But right now I think I just want a nap.

[keyholder21]

This has turned into a full reread vs. just checking out Z/Kiv heh. Also, I hate this. I didn't hate it when I was in the middle of it, but rereading basically 100 page D1 sucks haha.

 

I'll spoiler it, because I see everyone and their mom has started showing up and posting reread thoughts (btw AJ - green for you now <3; mindmeld FTW).

 

 

 

pg 23 - Sili looking better than I remember.

 

*snipped*

Genuine is easy to fake, I get fooled by it all the time. Consistency is where it's at and Laine has been consistent on hydracism

Ok, so townlean on Laine here? What does this mean? 

 

Sili, don't make me loose my mentor already, a couple of days with him and I might actually end up as a decent player.

 

 

Darthe, I kinda love your signature since it's Cory, but I kinda hate it since moving gif times several on one page and I'm on a 4G wifi.

I actually feel like this is a weird retort to what Sili said.

 

page 24 - Z feeling town.

 

cause shes not been scummy and shes an asset as town.  See SW and ME.  also why ill trust her till i see something that makes me think otherwise.

 

As far as knowing stuff others dont or may not:

 

Its raining where i live

Im hungry

Im a Gemini

and i also know you do love me somewhere deep down inside Nyn!!! 

 

My problem with this is that Laine hadn't been townie either. Nor super involved. But idk that mafia would stick their neck out there like that?

 

 

 

 

You might as well choose 8 other random slots and focus on eliminating through them first. There is no logic in choosnig hydras specifically first. If you're gonna try and lynch me, do it on my actions, not because I'm hydra or have a odd-numbered slot or whatever. It's just an excuse for setting up lynches and I really don't ffeel it.

Overreaction?

 

 

Mish overreacts a lot in games. It's kinda null for her. It's more Kivam's content that's giving me pause right now.

 

 

I dont have any mets on Mish but it seemed like an overreaction to me but Ill take your meta knowledge into consideration dear Nyn.  Also agree with not being a fan of Kiv's posts thus far/

 

I'll have to see if this happens. I like the willingness to take into consideration, BUT words are cheap.

 

pg 27 - like Razen, feel null on Shad. I just don't think my mind meshes well with how he plays. Similar to CS (when he plays ), NB, and a few others. Everything they say often seems to sit wrong with me, but I have no explanation why.

 

 

cause shes not been scummy and shes an asset as town.  See SW and ME.  also why ill trust her till i see something that makes me think otherwise.

Acceptable answer when you two aren't scum mates. 

 

But yeah I'm cool with Laine here so far.

 

I'm not sure why you are cool with Laine here, Shad. She hasn't really done anything.

 

 

*snipped*

 

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

 

He lurked as town in Belichick but showed up with some pretty solid observations when he did get into it.

 

 

Yeah pretty spot on about Pral here Shad.

 

Comments on Shad, but not on the Pral vote. Will have to pay attention to see if he goes back later and uses it as a reason to vote...though I don't remember him doing so.

 

pg 28 - Nyn definitely green townie. Of course that might mean she's cult .

 

pg 29 - so far I see a lot of wish commenting/clarifying what other people are saying, but no real stances herself. Not a huge fan of this, but taking into consideration that she's a new player, it doesn't read particularly scummy to me. Might be faux pa (sp?) but I feel like she could ask these qs on the mafia QT if she was maf.

 

 

 

 

Nyn - what about Kivam's content did you not like?

What caught my eye at first was the way he was supporting Laine's hydra hate campaign. Some others agreed with her as well (like Zander, wind and so on), but he went about it differently. Obviously I think the whole theory is a bunch of BS because it's 100% arbitrary (oh look, I used percentage so it must be true!). But the way he was trying to make it more than what it is, using mathematical certainty, reeks.

 

I didn't realize at that point that he and Mish are hydra, and I kinda liked how she was standing her ground, but looking at the interaction between them now... it looks awkward. I mean, sure, she gets defensive at anything. But then he explains to her how it totally does make sense (which it doesn't)... and she bows to his everlasting wisdom and backs off? Considering how strongly she felt about the entire thing? Feels off.

 

But what really struck a chord with me was his reasoning for voting Pral. He dismissed my comments about it, but it's right there. He was trying to misrep Pral. It's great that he only played with him as scum.... but he can't make an accusation based on meta if he doesn't know Pral's overall meta. His responses ranged between.... oh I only played with him as scum so that's all I know.... to him claiming that his vote was just made for reaction since Pral hasn't checked in yet. Which I don't really buy. He could have dropped a nudge vote for activity rather than use a bogus meta reason for that vote.

 

So, if I'm getting this right, you think that Kivam's comment is off because 1) he 'convinced' Mish to agree with supporting Laine, and 2) he used a meta reason for voting Pral, but the meta reason wasn't even accurate because it's limited to Kivam's knowledge of Pral's meta, which is why it's limited.

 

 

Sweet and to the point

 

- Kivam is not a newbie. He knows that meta encompasses both town and scum games. Him trying to claim that Pral lurking = ScumPral is a misrep. I'm not buying that it's all he knew so it makes it okay to use it.

 

- Kivam didn't just agree with Laine's approach, he tried to solidify it with more BS. His interaction with Mish is more a feel thing and prolly less important. But it's kinda unusual for her to just yield like that, imo. This, however is entirely subjective and more of a gut thing.

 

I really like Nyn's post here and further solidifies my green Nyn read.

 

 

One more time with feeling: i made no accusation against Pral. I prodded him to participate because if he happens to be scum this game, i want content to analyze. If I haven't made this clear enough in this and other threads, I DON'T BELIEVE IN META. Good players can stay consistent across alignment and bad players will get caught making mistakes with or without meta on them. Other than wanting to know if particular arguments are out of character for a player (if i start advocating no lynch D1, there's something weird going on), things like affect and tone are meaningless to me, because they can be faked so easily Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

Cory, it wasn't a reaction test. It was a "come out and post" vote. As scum or town, I'd expect to get at least some content in response that i could *later* use to get a read of Pral. The only really overly scummy behavior would normally be entirely ignoring it, since that would suggest an actual dedication to lurking rather than just a pattern of behavior. Hence the vote - in a game this large it would be easy to miss a generic prod for content while skimming. Much harder to miss an actual bold red vote that's also counted on every vote count Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I just find it hard to believe that you didn't know what you were doing re: accusing him of being scum when you said that. It's these statements instead - "yep, I was, but I didn't mean to" or "yep, I did, got a problem?" that rub me the wrong way.

 

pg 30 - feeling good on Z now, worse on Kiv. Null/slightly good on Mish because she seems her normal self.

 

I actually hate BFG's catchup less upon reread, but I don't like that she's been scarce. Do like Clov's questions, but they seem to be leading others to think a certain way rather than showing what he thinks. If that makes sense. I don't see what Cory was getting at, but his opinion matters to me because a) hydra and b) I consider him a much better player than myself so I feel like I was just missing something.

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

What are your thoughts on Zander? I am personally biased when it comes to him because I always town read him and don't necessarily see anything out of character from him. I know you've had trouble with Zanderisms in the past, so you may be able to give a fresh view?

 

I've played with Zander one game where I ran him up D1 and mislynched him lol (you were there too! xD). No experience with Seph, so I don't even have that to help me with this slot. Right now I feel like he did some things that make me feel a bit iffy (similarly to the way I felt in the Assassin game) and some things I liked.

 

I've been ISOing Zander's posts, and It's little things. Like him saying that it was odd that Sili didn't reply when he asked him if he's town. But later on he comments liking a post of his, because he's speaking in your favor. Eh. Or saying that Kiv's initial vote on AJ was not pro-town. Kiv did some fishy stuff for sure, but his initial vote on AJ isn't really one of them, imo. There was a little nudge at Shad over a joke vote on Seph in the first couple of pages that seemed odd. It was rather early to nudge for more content. Him jumping at Mish and Wombat for placing a vote on you is prolly what bothered me the most about him. I get that there's meta there but on the surface, not a fan. I don't think that at that point there was any reason to read you as anything but null. He claims that he trusts you automatically, unless he sees a reason not to. Personally I think it's a skewed approach... You're supposed to leave friendships at the door and assess objectively. He seems to be basically throwing around FoSes at anyone that leans on you.  Would have liked to see him trying to figure you out first, rather than just assuming you're town and attacking anyone that comes near you. I would have also liked to see how you handled Mish and Wombat yourself without him interjecting.

 

On the other hand he made some good observations early on. Like commenting about Wish's tone sounding relaxed.. Good observation on Halli too. He obviously shares my dislike of Kiv, though the emo bit wasn't really a factor for me. I try to leave AtE out of the equation when I try to make a read. Though Kiv later on claiming it was fake was peculiar. Him telling Kiv that he should focus on building a case on someone rather than keep arguing the topic was a good response. His initial read list was good too. He prods around, like questioning AJ about his Wombat vote. Nudges Snow about his read list. Now,  I can understand why he perceived Kiv's attitude as emo in that post he pointed out. It had a bit of a dramatic ring to it. But I don't think that Zander was ignoring the questioning or trying to avoid it. I felt like he was legitimately struggling in explaining himself. He sounded frustrated. But overall I get the sense that he believes what he's saying. And I'm generally underwhelmed with Kiv's push, claiming that Zan was still talking about his emo to have an excuse to keep his vote on him? Pfft. There are better reasons out there to vote him right now. So I think it's a bogus push. I'll admit that my read of Kiv could be coloring things a bit... but that's my impression.

 

 

 

So I'd basically like to see more of Zander (and I also need to take a closer look at Seph's posts). I'm glad that he finally got out from under your skirts because that was bugging me. For now null to town, but I'm keeping an eye on him.