A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[Sili Quirrels]

@ Sili - Re Eldrick, it's a gut/tone read thing I'm picking up on and if I'm following you correctly (?) then I agree,  alone it's not enough to make him scum. Was that your point? I haven't ISO'd him yet, have you?

 

 

Ya, basically that. I'm not prepared right now to fos him even if his tone is the same. I still have him as a strong town lean.

 

But, I tend to underestimate certain individuals so who knows... i expect my team to look where i'm not.

[alannalynn]

I am reading your posts and maybe I'm not getting the meta that everyone else is getting, but I also hate grading people purely on how they tend to play, because that can be so easily manipulated to cover scum play. Do you see what I mean? So, just looking at this game, i see too much fluff, less content, and a bandwagon vote that gives me a bad feeling. Now, maybe it's because I haven't played in a while and that's skewing my reads, but I'm going with a feeling.

Now, for the sake of consolidating votes because apparently I'm the only person that sees scum in hallia, I'll put my thoughts on the back burner and look at someone else.

[Hallia]

He had what, three votes? I disagree on the bandwagon part.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

If you look at my POV as I've explained, it should make sense that I'd push you a little as a result.  You got very defensive and snippy with me as soon as I started, which made me push more.

 

This isn't going to be one of those games I can just "tell" what alignment you are, because it is way too easy to be scum in this game if there are multiple scum teams.  Just scumhunt for the other team(s) and you look pro-town.  Too easy.  Finding scum here will be harder than normal as a result.

 

 

 

Bottom line:  Yates being inconsistent in his "lock scum" read is not the issue (read this Sili - it should help you see my thought process) --- it is the fact that he wouldn't address it while being pressed on it from multiple posts of mine (and others).  When he finally replied, had it been a defense of his stance, I would have pushed the lynched myself.  Instead, he admitted the mistake, which rang sincere to me, and I unvoted.  Simple as that.

 

Anybody calling that sequence of events scummy on my part is welcome to push me on it.  I ain't scurred.

This isn't how it came across. Besides phrasing it wrong, the matter was the inconsistency, while yates dodging it a little accidentally made it something people could latch onto. Thing is you pushed Yates for being inconsistent, not for being conspicuous, and usually that sort of thing would be a side note in a much larger case because it is insignificant on its own, but you pushed him for it very hard, and you acted like it was the crux of the case against him from the get go and to the end.

 

Furthermore, I know you didn't do your research, because Yates gave an excuse that wasn't even applicable, and that for you, should be damning.  I don't know a verbal who is this bad at being a villager and pressing suspects for information in such an unhealthy way.

 

 

-No, instead it's hallia that's scummy for hopping on at the end because [reasons]. Sorry, it's just in addition to thinking you linked leelou and verbal because verbal is scum and leelou isn't, I don't see why a wolf needs to hop on at the end of a villager wagon.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here.....

 

The last quote is directed at alannalynn.

 

To rephrase the case, a little more consicely,

 

Your case on Yates was, 'after 2 days he changed his read of someone and therefore he was scum'. You continued pressing this angle throughout with phrasing that made it clear  you thought the inconsistency was important and that yates would not be able to respond reasonably. It was indicative of a villager who was deep inside a tunnel or a wolf who was mudslinging to get traction onto a wagon. Furthermore, not only did you misinterpret the quote Yates' posted, but Yates didn't even respond to your case when you unvoted him; You said Yates had along with 6 or so villagers Seph as town too in the post below:

 

 

 

I started at the beginning of the game but ended up skipping ahead before EOD1, not too long after Pizza made his grandious entrance actually. I didn't actually start to follow it in earnest until around the later part of the game when you had the Cop CC battle going on.

Meh. Not as helpful as I was hoping. I feel like this is an easy enough conclusion to arrive at:

-he has similar enough tone and way of making reads to the champions game that i wasn't going to fos him yet.

And I feel like the people in this game that should recognize this fact are you, Pizza, Sili, Cory, Sooh, Seph, Cass, and Tress. Maybe Verb but Verb thought I was scum in that game so I don't think he was actually reading... But that's 7 slots worth of Town reads and two of those seven are voting for me. I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

 

 

And you townread yates for:

 

 

 

Yes, but didn't you also say he was town?

I think only when I mixed him up with Zander as EP's mason buddy?

 

[Sili Quirrels]

gtg, will be back later.

[Alot]

I kinda wanted to see what LeeLou would do, as I remembered bad feelings about her, but this was the first specific thing I read this morning that spoke to me.  Like I said, I was fine with putting my vote there for a time.  

Her reaction to being voted?  Said I'd made some okay posts but voting her for a clearly stated reason put me in the scum category.  Then she squirmed some more when other people added votes.  I find that scummy.

For now though, [unvote][v]unvote[/v] or however you do it on this forum.

[Andrej]

I am reading your posts and maybe I'm not getting the meta that everyone else is getting, but I also hate grading people purely on how they tend to play, because that can be so easily manipulated to cover scum play. Do you see what I mean? So, just looking at this game, i see too much fluff, less content, and a bandwagon vote that gives me a bad feeling. Now, maybe it's because I haven't played in a while and that's skewing my reads, but I'm going with a feeling.

Now, for the sake of consolidating votes because apparently I'm the only person that sees scum in hallia, I'll put my thoughts on the back burner and look at someone else.

Objectively I can see what you're saying here considering you don't have any experience with her. I'm sure plenty of others will agree with me here that do know her as well, but she's never an extremely content heavy player in either alignment so I wouldn't say that's as indicative as you may think.

[Andrej]

Alot that post doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you think she reacted badly why are you unvoting?

[Sooh]

Which is it? You want to talk to your mentor before giving your reads or your reads haven't changed?

Well.. if you look back you see I have only reads on a few people. Those haven't changed in my opinion. I wanted to look at some people who I haven't looked at so closely before. Those are the ones I wanted to discuss with my mentor. 

 

I feel like your votes so far have been rather opportunistic and poorly explained, but I'm not ready to call you mafia for that. 

 

Talya, why do you keep calling seph Seth? You have done this in all but one post. Had it been your last one I guess I could buy that you just learned it, but it's not. You've also been mildly FoSing both Sili and me for leaning mafia on Seph. To me it looks like defending him against votes, while at the same time you are distancing because you don't even know his name! I wouldn't be surprised if you two are scum mates. 

 

I need to read more from both Taborline and Thane too. 

 

Will work more on ISOs and things tomorrow, but I'm going to bed now. 

[Alot]

Andrej, I put that vote down to put a vote down and do something in the game, and see the reaction.  I'm not ready to put down a vote I intend to lynch someone with yet.

[Sili Quirrels]

mafia so stressful.

[dicetosser1]

I have a theory...

 

Yates said he would replace in for one of the inactives.

 

What if scum wanted to eliminate a town pr and convert a good player to their side...

 

I have had the thought that yates may have replaced in as scum. thats why i told him to town it up. I dont think thats a crazy thought.

 

 

 

all right  Now Tina  the responses will be blue INSIDE the quote

 

I started with Dice because he hasn´t got many posts. 

 

First he votes Talya to welcome her. He says that AJ´s first post doesn´t make him want to vote AJ. He asks Eldrick not to call Laine AJ since it´s confusing. He jokes with Yates about Mother´s Day. 

 

Then he asks for how many votes Sooh had. I don´t know why he asked because, from what I can see, he never comes back to Sooh again. 

 

 

 

 

I have read up but im at work and have a migraine so this is gonna be brief

 

Seph  you are clearer this game. good one. But the change in the tone of your posts has me wondering. Show me some of that seph analysis will ya?  I mentored Seph last game one of the things we spoke about was he needed to work on his clarity. Reading his sentences was difficult. the insight was re something he did when deciding on turin at endgame

 

Pizzaguy   Gday im Dice.  So far i have a town lean on you but as i dont know you I am gonna have that with a pinch of salt just in case

 

Yates and Manbat   Those 2 posts one after the other...why do you think the opposite in regards to seph? and no monstr i dont know why u were giving seph town points unless it was cause he happily agreed to less MQing.    Manbat and Yates posted 2 opposite theories re Seph. Yates was the next post after Manbats. Manbat had said something like "theres a reason im clearing seph  tell me what it is" I couldnt work it out

 

im gonna go sit in the dark now

 

 

I have removed the fluff from the post above. I´m sorry that you have had migraine. It´s really painfull. 

 

I don´t understand his comment about Seph. He is clearer but his tone has him wondering. So, does he like him or not? I guess he thinks his analysis is townie, so he kind of asks him to be more townie.

 

He has a townlead on Pizza but it´s not worth much since he doesn´t know Pizza. 

 

I don´t remember the posts that lead him to ask that of Yates and Manbat but he doesn´t know why Manbat calls Seph town. 

 

This post is mostly fencesitting. 

 

 

 

 

**snip**

 

I don´t have any oppinion at all of Sooh right now. 

 

Cory wants me to tell you that he knows you're town so this is par for the course...

 

and he put one of these

 

 

Well, this is weird talking through you. Say hi to Cory.  Cory is the one who can read me the best. 

 

 

Need to sleep now. See you tomorrow. 

 

 

Dont like this. ignoring the from cory messages cause thats been dealt with. What I dont like is that this comes accross as Tina using Cory to get Townie points. Add that to the fact im not seeing clear TownTina like i usually do and im getting sus on her.

 

Unvote

 

Vote:Tina

 

 

Before this he has said that Zander looks like Zander = good. Here is where he is voting me. This was when I had some preassure on me, especially from AJ. 

 

You beat me to it but yes i remember.  its a little vague but your posts below help jog my memory

 

^^ Every once in a while I remember a couple of the tricks my scum mates use to their advantage. Cory "read" Tina as Town to pocket her for the game. Also, I don't recall but did you Town read her right away in that game?

 

 

 

Also, I don't recall but did you Town read her right away in that game?

I just did a quick check and I don't think you did. In fact, you agreed with someone about Tina looking suspicious for saying Cory usually reads her well and she would be concerned if he didn't read her Town. Then a few posts later you say she usually reads YOU pretty well. Do you still think this? Does Tina usually read you pretty well?

 

 

No i dont think i did but my recall of it isnt perfect. I usually see Town Tina pretty quick. im not perfect tho  if her activity is kinda spotty i can miss it. 

 

And thats part of the problem i had with her   i thought i was totally on my TownDice meta something she usually sees easily and she was sus of me that game.

 

ok fair enuff. she has a town history of doing it. i still dont like it tho.

 

now you got me wondering about Sooh. And you.

 

He changes his mind when he saw Yates´s post and unvoted me in his next post. No more preassure on me.   I looked back at the game and yates' point made me reevaluate. You went up. Sooh went down.

 

 

[v]Yates[/v]

 

 

The question was for Hallia but I guess she's gone now.

 

Yes, Yates. I've been rolling the idea around in my head most of the day that he could be scum here. It's a little hard to articulate but I am just getting bad vibes from him. Usually by now I think I would feel reasonably okay about him if he were a villager considering the amount of content he has. The fact that I don't worries me. There's some things he's done that trouble me and I feel like since I am shoring up on some of my villager reads and he is left out of them this is a positive direction for me to move in.

 

For instance, I wasn't particularly fond of the way he reacted to Sooh voting him earlier. The way he postured around Seph and the EP wagons made me uncomfortable then and still does now in light of EP's soft balling and Seph's later profession. He hedged on his read of Zander saying he liked the post but also leaves himself open to possibly move there later. I also think he went over the top complimenting Tina on her posts and I'm curious as to his focus regarding me and my read of her. He also made a comment towards her early on that basically soft balled a town read on her slot. I haven't really decided how I feel about the entire interaction completely but I could see scum!Yates doing this as a pocketing attempt on a town!Tina

 

You just locked your self in blue.

 

The thing i have noticed,  particularly when i answered him above was that I cant point to anything and say thats typical yates. Aside from the pumpkin thing but that was kinda meh to me actually cause id seen it before.

 

His posts that I responded to can definetly be taken 2 ways and im umming and ahhing which way to go. I shouldnt be doing that with him.

 

I do want to see his response tho before i vote

 

 

Here he agrees with AJ about Yates and locked him in blue. I guess that means that he is super townie. But still, he wants Yates to answer first before he votes. So it´s an intent to vote him.  Nope it was a I find him iffy and want more. I dont do intend to vote. i either vote or I dont. I did kinda answer this for someone else earlier too. cass i think

 

After this he has a few post where he for example point out to Sili that Tress is town. 

 

 

only up to page 59 and have a wicked migraine and work all day  will do what i can

 

the yates lynch stinks.

 

@yates  I want to see you town it up cause right now im concerned you're gonna have to be lynched again. Liking what i have seen of yates 2 so far

 

This is after Yates lynch. Now he says that Yates´s lynch stinks. Even though he intended to vote him yesterday (but never did). But at the same time he wants Yates to be more townie so that he won´t be lynched again.

 

 

Conclusion: Dice doesn´t take many stances and easily gives up the reads he has. This doesn´t give me a good impression of him. But... some of it might be explained by him not being here duing the Yates action, with claiming etc. I can´t really blame people for not having more reads and being more active since I self haven´t been doing it enough. But from the content I think he is very vague and easily convinced. Scum vibe. 

 

He claimed BP PR AND FARAMIR!  why people did not pull straight off him i do not know. 

 

the Red.  Make sure you get this clearly. his is NOT at Yates. this is at Yates 2.0. different beast. He replaced in. He MAY have replaced in as scum. And i am very worried about that slot now and want it clear asap. hence telling him to show me he is town fast and clearly.

[dicetosser1]

Oh i missed something in that MQ Tina   the question about Soohs votes   she had like 4 votes iirc and they seemed to pile up quick.

 

 

now im gonna be a hypocrite and 

 

vote:sooh

 

I had a sudden gut reaction yesterday and as said before i was gonna vote sooh but i didnt make DL. Then there was the weirdness of asking about sili. Thats almost TOO obvious. However i do think it may happen if mafia left instructions like "when one of those two are lead wagons end day" and the others were not around at the time.

 

her response of  i wanted to check my mentor and my reads havent changed but have a bit   didnt help.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Okay, Verb. Let me ask you, what do you think of Alot's vote on me? I personally think it stinks.

It is a minor detail, but the Devil is in the details, right?

 

I don't think it reveals anything about Alot, though. I can see that detail being pushed by town or scum. Actually, I'm kinda happy somebody else is pushing you as well. Not having a strong feeling either way on you is going to bug me all game, so the more attention the merrier!

 

 

Okay, how do you explain Cass's typical play style in games? 

 

 

I don't have much to go on with her, because the only game I can compare it to, we were scum together. But IMO she was a lot more chatty as scum as she is in this game. I don't know if that means anything, and it's only 1 game, so I'm not using it in my judgement of her.

 

 

Leelou, what's your opinion on the whole issue with Sooh at EoD yesterday?

 

 

 

Leelou, what's your opinion on the whole issue with Sooh at EoD yesterday?

 

Coincidental until we have evidence. 

 

 

 

See, now I like this response.  Pretty sure Sooh and Leelou cannot be w/w.  I am suspicious of the timing, but I probably would have said the same thing.

 

 

The problem I have with this is you were just recently talking about how the wolves on opposite teams are hunting each other. What you're implying here is that they aren't on the same team. That doesn't mean they aren't both wolves.

 

Alot that post doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you think she reacted badly why are you unvoting?

+1

 

Also, since my unvote didn't seem to stick [v]Unvote[/v]

 

I will be gone for a few hours now. I don't have anyone I want to vote, and will probably miss the deadline. I'm hoping this will get easier when there's less people.

[Clovdyx]

Official Vote Count Four:

 

AndreJ(1/12): Krak

Sooh (3/12): Hallia, Yates, Dice

Talya (1/12): Pizza

Hallia (1/12): Alannalynn

Krak (3/12): Talya, Leelou, AndreJ

Verb (1/12): Sili

Leelou (1/12): Eternal Phoenix

 

Not Voting (11/21):

Sooh, Aiel Heart, Thane, Verb, Taborline, Seph, Tina, Batassery, Eldrick, Alot

 

With 21 alive it takes 12 to lynch.   Approximately 17 hours remain.

[Clovdyx]

I'm going to murder you :|

[Leelou]

*pets Clov* Down, boy. 

[Clovdyx]

Oh, right, because THAT's how it works.   

[Alot]

Clov I unvoted.  In 3 separate ways.

[Clovdyx]

Yeah, I saw there were Alot of unvotes.

[Clovdyx]

Darthe said I have to do vote counts.  He never said I had to use the actual players' votes.

[Leelou]

Yeah, I saw there were Alot of unvotes.

 

lol

[Sili Quirrels]

i made a good case against verbal. my team isn't helping me, so should i continue tunneling verbal indefinitely or will someone talk me out of it? Or better yet, will someone help me hone my argument because i think he flips scum most of the time here and I'm not kidding. This isn't some general fos on some random villager. This is verbal and I'm going to take him down.

[Talya]

@AJ - charming always works on me:wink;

 

@Sooh-can't remember what I said about you and Seph. I didn't accuse Sili of going after him neither. As for the name I suddenly realised I had been spelling it wrong...too much stargate and being a big Egyptian fan if that is a case on someone its quite laughable.

 

My ears are ringing (standing right by the speakers doesn't help) and I'm quite merry so wishing you all a good night xx

[Yates]

mafia so stressful.

Not for me. I'm putting in no effort and making EP a double voter by end of the day. Makes things easy. I don't even need to read!!!!!!!!!!! LAWLLLLLLZORZ