[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D3.02:

 

Tress (3): AJ [#2932], Deslami [#3128], Nyn [#3170]

Deslami (1): Rags [#3117]

Rags (1): Dicehaslice [#3027]

Dice (1): Hallia [#3048]

Nyn (1): Darthe [#3083]

 

Not Voting (4): Cass, Pralaya, Thane Vakarian, Tress

 

At the gallows: Tress

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

[Cass]

Sorry guys just got home and can't find resolve to sit down at the computer #newjobsettingdataentrythunderstormflashfloodingbrokentrainssoreshoulder15hrworkday... I'm stuffed. Will get back to this tomorrow.

[hazelkrs1]

Cass I don't understand what you're trying to say. That post was too short.

[Cass]

@Des

 

Here.

 

Let me try it with a thousand words: 

[Cass]

goodnight :)

[Thane Vakarian]

kind of here, tried to catch up some. What i understand is that from all the players, Tress looks worst for the moment (hence the votes on her). I'm not liking the lack of participation of Rags and Pral here. 

[Pralaya]

kind of here, tried to catch up some. What i understand is that from all the players, Tress looks worst for the moment (hence the votes on her). I'm not liking the lack of participation of Rags and Pral here.

More pertinent question is what did you think of the reads that I posted.

[Thane Vakarian]

Well, caught up now.

 

Hally is clearly not the scum because of Wombie peek.

 

Andrej was the counter-wagon to kivam and Kivam tried to push his train as an alternative. That makes me think that AJ is kind of cleared so far.

 

Darthe too has been focused on Yates on D1 and Kivam on D2. While I know Darthe likes to bus his teammates, trying to distance both of them on consecutive days is a bit too much to believe. For now, Darthe is out of contention.

 

Des/Csarmi is more of a tone read - from both of them. Csarmi is in his scum hunting meta and Des has been quite active throughout the game. His D2 posts against Kivam were pretty good and looked genuine. Good for now.

 

Nyn also seems to be putting a good effort but she has been off her targets the entire game. Went after me on D2 initially for not-so-great reasons and then after verb/barm (which I was fine with because I also had the same reads). But her tone seems genuine and am putting her higher in the list.

 

Tress has the fact that Yates missed her off his reads list. With the info and limited players right now, this may not be a strong reason after all. Her D1 posts were all buddying Des and going after the lead wagon Sili. That makes her slot iffy.

 

Dice's posts today look forced. Really forced. Like he said something by mistake and trying to justify it using whatever means necessary. He was the "seer cover" of Yates, which I thought was town, but is basically a wifom now.

 

Cass has been fine but for her D1 vote on yates  which came out of nowhere. That looked like distancing when I was catching up with the game. Still, she seems excited to play the game and she is being mentored by monstr. So, I can give her a benefit of doubt.

 

I never liked Thane posts on D1 and D2 and all he did was tunnel on me. D3 posts, he seems very confused but I am not sure whether it is genuine or faked. Thane has played enough games not to get confused by some simple play. And, that is why I am thinking he is faking it a bit here. 

I have no idea what Rags has done so far. Putting him all the way down for that

 

 

Good with either Rags or Thane today and I am quite sure that's where the last scum is.

i gather it's this ^ list you're talking about Pral. 

 

I really wonder where i seem confused tbh. Perhaps i'm too tired to write in decent english. 

 

I do agree that Tress doesn't look too hot. And i too have doubts about Cass, it's in my EOD D2 catchup a few pages ago. Don't know if she slipped or not.

 

So, Rags would be good, yes?

[csarmi]

Tress. Help me out here cause i cannot clear you.

[Songstress]

Tress. Help me out here cause i cannot clear you.

 

I left you a little birthday present in the Village.

 

I can't help much unfortunately.  Your other head has made up his mind anyway, doubt he'd be swayed even if you were soulreading me as town.

 

No worries, friend.  

[csarmi]

I... You look kind of wolfy to me.

 

*Blushes*

 

Also what did you mean yesterday?

 

And do you have an analysis?

 

And how do you feel about Thane?

[csarmi]

Tried to look up wome games but then the one i was looking for is buried in Thakandar... Got frustrated and gave up.

 

Link me a low activity town game of yous pls.

[Darthe]

Tress you know how much I hate when people give up.  Talk to me here, why are you behaving like this on thread (which I don't think I've ever seen from you) and why shouldn't you be lynched today?

[Darthe]

Salami what are you and Des feeling?  I have this disparity where half the people have played mostly solid games and been around and half have been bad or gone.  There's no middle ground.

[Andrej]

Unfortunately in situations like this tinfoiling is going to take affect with 9 townies alive and only 2 bad guys to find.

 

We need to kill the sketchy people first. There's no need to carry them into later phases as an uncertainty and I also believe there's a pretty damn good chance they're the bad guys we're looking for anyway. If not, then we let the NAs shake out and reevaluate come Day break.

[Andrej]

Also good morning. I'm going to reread from where I passed out last night and respond to this and that.

[Darthe]

Unfortunately in situations like this tinfoiling is going to take affect with 9 townies alive and only 2 bad guys to find.

 

We need to kill the sketchy people first. There's no need to carry them into later phases as an uncertainty and I also believe there's a pretty damn good chance they're the bad guys we're looking for anyway. If not, then we let the NAs shake out and reevaluate come Day break.

This is all objectively true.  However, and maybe this is premature to make this argument, lynching straight from the bottom is an easy way to toss an advantage.  I'd rather continue scumhunting and keep lists more fluid than it seems like today is being played in general.  

[Songstress]

Tress you know how much I hate when people give up.  Talk to me here, why are you behaving like this on thread (which I don't think I've ever seen from you) and why shouldn't you be lynched today?

 

I've made it as clear as it needs to be why I'm behaving like this.  Lynch me if you must, or shoot me tonight.  If it needs to be done, it needs to be done.  

 

I'll try to get to questions tonight, I'm really sorry but I'm out of time, accident on the freeway and I have to leave for work.  I'm feeling less great this morning than usual and in danger of getting emo anyway so it's best if I don't try to make myself late for work and respond right now.

[Hallia]

Morning all

[Darthe]

Sup Hally?  Watcha think of Tress?

[Andrej]

 

At the very least what you should take away from Kivam and my interactions is that we aren't likely to be on the same team. This doesn't make me a townie, necessarily, although I am - but generally in games this is how you would apply logic to varying relationships amongst players. This are muddled here because the presence of a SK is known, but it should be obvious from our interactions from D1 & D2 that Kivam and I are were playing from polar opposite perspectives.

I don't get this logic, considering Wilves are wily and like to twist things up. Kiv and you being 'at loggerheads' objectively doesn't confirm very much at all, in a sense. Eg Yates may have been set up by his own team by purpose. Can't remember but was anyone voting for him Do?

 

It really boils down to personal interpretation of those kind of interactions. Your conclusion is okay (in a nut shell) but you have to take thread evidence into account as well. What about our exchanges makes you think we're more likely to be distancing than actually on opposing teams? Be specific as possible too. Also I don't believe Yates was ever really under threat D1 so I'm not sure how that is relevant here. From memory I think Darthe and Wombat voted him at some point.

 

This was @AJ.

 

Dude, you missed this major question(?)

 

I really don't recall anything to clear Dice or Thane, and reasons why I'm sus on them in particular are in the post I mentioned. What are your reasons for feeling so confident they're Town?

 

Sorry - must have missed it while I was skimming your post

 

It's mostly gut and drawing from my experience with both of them. Neither are the type of players who are going to present stunning arguments so applying logical based theory is a bad way to interpret their slots. Regardless of some unpopular opinion tone reading is a real thing. Mafia isn't just a game of cold logic there is a very real interpersonal aspect to it and emotions play a big part in how people play and present themselves on thread. Some are better at faking this than others but currently I am satisfied to say that I think both are coming from genuine places.

 

Eventually you just need to decide on players. It doesn't have to be set in stone but for the sake of progression sort out your lists and move forward while keeping your eyes open. The current situation we are in is a good example of that. We have 2 threats left and a whole bunch of townies still alive. Not everyone can be a bad guy here - which brings me to my next point. Process of Elimination (POE) is a powerful tool in a situation like this because it'll help you sort out your reads and focus on a smaller group of suspects. I would actually love to see you make a list like that, if you don't mind.

 

What is Monstr teaching you? This is stuff I figured he'd cover in your 101 session

 

 

What up beeyotches

It's my birthday.

 

#justsaying

 

[unvote]

 

Happy Birthday!

 

 

 

A clear Warlock! LOL that's the same pic I like using for LOCK CLEAR sometimes

 

Heh, I know

 

There's a reason I picked this one.

 

I don't really understand why you're looking at if I was wrong or right when the important part is intent, reasons, putting in the work to back up my reads. Whether you agreed with me or whether I was right or not is less important in my opinion. I dont look for that when I look into people.

 

Being wrong is sometimes a pretty good indicator that someone isn't playing to Town's agenda. Advanced players can often case wrongfully and make it all look very neat and clean - expect that it ends up killing innocents over guilty players. You're experienced enough, in my opinion, to both know this and be good enough to put in the effort so that your intent looked legitimate.

[Hallia]

Morning Derf. She's coming across as a vanillager who's too busy to devote a lot of time to the game. I speak from personal experience, I doubt that she's mafia.

[Andrej]

 

Unfortunately in situations like this tinfoiling is going to take affect with 9 townies alive and only 2 bad guys to find.

 

We need to kill the sketchy people first. There's no need to carry them into later phases as an uncertainty and I also believe there's a pretty damn good chance they're the bad guys we're looking for anyway. If not, then we let the NAs shake out and reevaluate come Day break.

 

This is all objectively true.  However, and maybe this is premature to make this argument, lynching straight from the bottom is an easy way to toss an advantage.  I'd rather continue scumhunting and keep lists more fluid than it seems like today is being played in general.  

 

That's a fair point. I also don't think we're at a point where we need to start tinfoiling extremely hard yet either, we're up by a big margin and I would rather kill question marks sooner than later.

[Nynaeve]

Being wrong is sometimes a pretty good indicator that someone isn't playing to Town's agenda. Advanced players can often case wrongfully and make it all look very neat and clean - expect that it ends up killing innocents over guilty players. You're experienced enough, in my opinion, to both know this and be good enough to put in the effort so that your intent looked legitimate.

 

 

I completely disagree. First of all it doesn't matter how experienced a player is, we all still makes mistake. Secondly, just off the top of my head, I spent most of the Firefly game having two out of the four scum in my blue reads. There were like two games where I hounded you and you turned out being town. You know this.

[Nynaeve]

I'm flattered that you think I'm usually right even though I'm pretty sure I'm not. Sometimes my ISOs lead me to scum, sometimes it's a dead end. But that's how I scumhunt.