The Inglorious - Kitchen Sink Bastard Mafia by Darthe

[Myndrunner]

Why don't you believe my claim?  Why would a mafia team claim mason?

 

I suggest that if you really are town and want a town victory, let's look for other, more reasonable D1 lynch candidates OR consider No Lynch.

[Yates]

No lynch is bad in a standard game, with only a cop and/or doc because that's all we have for info.  In a KITCHEN SINK game, it is a good idea because there are likely several players with good abilities.

In a kitchen sink game, doesn't that also mean that the scum have several good abilities, too?

[Andrej]

Idk man - I don't think it's a good idea from my POV. The only real way to clear you at this point with your claim (and your partner) is by lynching you. I won't trust NAs.

 

For one, I have no idea what other roles are out there besides my own, and I really REALLY don't like the idea of letting a Cop try to clear you in this case when it's very likely there are some crafty scum roles here to tamper with the viewing.

 

You suggesting this alone just sets alarm bells off in my head that you may have more info than I do regarding to what roles are out there, or more simply, that you're a GF.

[Darthe]

Vote Count 6:

 

Rag (1/7): Womby

Len (2/7): Des, Yates
Mynd (4/7): AJ, TG, Rag, Len

No lynch (1/7): Mynd

 

Not Voting (4/12):
DT, Laya, Darthe, Rand

 

Night is in 3 hours.

[Yates]

Why would a mafia team claim mason?

I am not for lynching you but this is a dumb question.  I am also not for no lynch.

 

What are your reads on Lenlo, AJ, and Rag?

[Andrej]

Why don't you believe my claim?  Why would a mafia team claim mason?

 

I suggest that if you really are town and want a town victory, let's look for other, more reasonable D1 lynch candidates OR consider No Lynch.

 

I'm not going to get into the 'Mafia won't do this' argument - there's basically scum won't do to save their skin, because that's their biggest interest in this game.

 

Surviving. They basically just have to outlast the town and then they win.

 

Who would you consider a no 'reasonable' D1 lynch? I'm not going to vote for No Lynch, I'll say that now. Somebody dies today so that we have a direction to move in D2.

[Andrej]

basically nothing*

[Yates]

Also, I would suggest if you are actually a Mason that your partner stays quiet until D2 at the earliest. Claiming here to save you would be pretty dumb - but I don't really believe your claim anyway, but that's my 2c.

Actually, verification might be the best thing specifically BECAUSE you don't believe the claim.  If scum kill either one of them, it proves the existence of the other. So it would make them an unlikely target.  If something fishy should happen and one flips/investigates scum, we just caught two for the price of one.

 

Disagree?

[Yates]

Actually, thinking it through a bit more, think about what outed "masons" would mean for night actions.  I like your paranoia since I pulled this mason card as a GF before [is that what made you think of it?], but there aren't going to be TWO GF's, right?  Just another piece of the puzzle to mull over.

[Andrej]

 

Also, I would suggest if you are actually a Mason that your partner stays quiet until D2 at the earliest. Claiming here to save you would be pretty dumb - but I don't really believe your claim anyway, but that's my 2c.

Actually, verification might be the best thing specifically BECAUSE you don't believe the claim.  If scum kill either one of them, it proves the existence of the other. So it would make them an unlikely target.  If something fishy should happen and one flips/investigates scum, we just caught two for the price of one.

 

Disagree?

 

I disagree that it makes them unlikely targets. Sure the WIFOM still exists until one or both are vetted, but essentially that tables two players from the lynch pool each day. 

 

Let's say we NL today and then scum NK tonight (using your logic that they won't kill a Mason). We start with 10 players on D2, two of which won't be getting lynched. So now the lynch pool is down to 8 for scum to hide within/try to mislynch out of. The same goes on each phase cycle and that number slowly shrinks - leaving two pseudo-confirmed townies alive will only hurt the Mafia in the long run. Better to cap them now and then leave more openings for mislynches than to skirt around with the fearing of vetting them to the rest of us.

[Andrej]

Actually, thinking it through a bit more, think about what outed "masons" would mean for night actions.  I like your paranoia since I pulled this mason card as a GF before [is that what made you think of it?], but there aren't going to be TWO GF's, right?  Just another piece of the puzzle to mull over.

 

No - Mynd basically saying 'view me' is what makes me really sketched out. Begging to get viewed by a Cop to me is bad for business, and tips me off that he probably has some role or knowledge of a role that could work around a Cop's abilities. But again - I could be just overly paranoid here.

[Yates]

Let's say we NL today and then scum NK tonight (using your logic that they won't kill a Mason). We start with 10 players on D2, two of which won't be getting lynched. So now the lynch pool is down to 8 for scum to hide within/try to mislynch out of. The same goes on each phase cycle and that number slowly shrinks - leaving two pseudo-confirmed townies alive will only hurt the Mafia in the long run. Better to cap them now and then leave more openings for mislynches than to skirt around with the fearing of vetting them to the rest of us.

Think about the rest of the night actions, though. You are alluding to it but failing to see what's right in front of your face - scum have to make a choice. Do they spend two nights killing masons? OR do they leave the wifom out there and try to kill any cops that might exist before the cops find them?

 

Actually, I think the next time I'm a mason I'll claim in post 1. Might even do it as scum some time and see how that works out...

[Yates]

Oh man. AND scum can't let masons survive too close to end game. When it comes time to kill one they end up in a situation with a vetted Townie and lose.

 

Yeah. I'm definitely full claiming next time I'm a mason.

[Myndrunner]

 

Actually, thinking it through a bit more, think about what outed "masons" would mean for night actions.  I like your paranoia since I pulled this mason card as a GF before [is that what made you think of it?], but there aren't going to be TWO GF's, right?  Just another piece of the puzzle to mull over.

 

No - Mynd basically saying 'view me' is what makes me really sketched out. Begging to get viewed by a Cop to me is bad for business, and tips me off that he probably has some role or knowledge of a role that could work around a Cop's abilities. But again - I could be just overly paranoid here.

 

 

Its a suggestion, not a command.  Andrej, please step back and remove your tunnel-vision glasses, if you are town.  There is a better way to go.  No Lynch is the optimal way to go for the town.  We don't lose a townie and everyone can use their kitchen sink devices as they should.  At this point, lynching me would not give us any info at all other than confirming another townie who would likely be the NK target that night. 

 

Think about it.  IN a more fast paced mafia, when there are two masons/templars, one outs as mason while the other remains hidden.  Mafia would never claim as masons because it is too easy to disprove.  You get two scum for the price of one.  That is why a mason claim is usually true.  It would be stupid for mafia or anyone to fake one.

[Myndrunner]

 

Why would a mafia team claim mason?

I am not for lynching you but this is a dumb question.  I am also not for no lynch.

 

What are your reads on Lenlo, AJ, and Rag?

 

 

I think AJ is actually trying, but he's got tunnelvision coupled with paranoia.  I don't have a good enough read on Rags (rather, Red's slot) at all. 

 

Lenlo is playing his usual radical out the box game, but his quick vote on me is puzzling. 

 

Gun to head, I'd actually vote to lynch Lenlo if the consensus is to not go No Lynch.  Still, I think we should go NO Lynch.

 

And that isn't a dumb question.  WHy would mafia claim mason when that is so easy to prove?  You get two for one scum with a claim like that.

[Darthe]

Yeah guys, let's no lynch.  There's no way that can hurt us.

[Lenlo]

Yeah guys, let's no lynch.  There's no way that can hurt us.

I dont believe you for some reason.

 

Also Mynd boxes are boring. Unless your a cat. Then they rule.

[Yates]

And that isn't a dumb question.  WHy would mafia claim mason when that is so easy to prove?  You get two for one scum with a claim like that.

To buy time. As I pointed out earlier, I did it as GF before. I even think you were in the game. I did it specifically because no one would expect my "mason buddy" to reveal so it would buy me Town credit and extra days.

[Andrej]

 

Let's say we NL today and then scum NK tonight (using your logic that they won't kill a Mason). We start with 10 players on D2, two of which won't be getting lynched. So now the lynch pool is down to 8 for scum to hide within/try to mislynch out of. The same goes on each phase cycle and that number slowly shrinks - leaving two pseudo-confirmed townies alive will only hurt the Mafia in the long run. Better to cap them now and then leave more openings for mislynches than to skirt around with the fearing of vetting them to the rest of us.

 

Think about the rest of the night actions, though. You are alluding to it but failing to see what's right in front of your face - scum have to make a choice. Do they spend two nights killing masons? OR do they leave the wifom out there and try to kill any cops that might exist before the cops find them?

 

Actually, I think the next time I'm a mason I'll claim in post 1. Might even do it as scum some time and see how that works out...

 

Me as scum in this situation caps the Masons, every time. Town's only real power (in general) of killing the mafia is through lynching, and I would want to keep that pool as large as I can for as long as I can. I am speaking more of in the sense of Mafia being a vacuum, but yeah. Optimally leaving around unlynchable townies is bad for business when you are scum.

 

Anyway, this is kind of bordering mafia theory, btw. I'd love to debate with you on it - outside of the game - but right now I'd like to focus primarily on who we are going to lynch today.

[Andrej]

 

And that isn't a dumb question.  WHy would mafia claim mason when that is so easy to prove?  You get two for one scum with a claim like that.

 

To buy time. As I pointed out earlier, I did it as GF before. I even think you were in the game. I did it specifically because no one would expect my "mason buddy" to reveal so it would buy me Town credit and extra days.

 

Exactly. 

[Yates]

Anyway, this is kind of bordering mafia theory, btw. I'd love to debate with you on it - outside of the game - but right now I'd like to focus primarily on who we are going to lynch today.

In fairness, I'm raising this point only to talk you out of a Mynd lynch.

[Yates]

Alright - deal time, AJ....

 

I will vote Mynd if his buddy doesn't reveal in the next hour.

 

If Mynd is "vetted" by his "buddy" would you be willing to lynch Lenlo in the 11th hour?

[Yates]

Oh and Mynd, if your "buddy" isn't on I'd accept you claiming for your buddy.

[Darthe]

Modpost: I should mention that I will not be back around until this evening roughly 2 hours after deadline, though it could be as much as four.  Sorry about this, it is unavoidable and didn't come up until yesterday.

[Andrej]

I think AJ is actually trying, but he's got tunnelvision coupled with paranoia.  I don't have a good enough read on Rags (rather, Red's slot) at all.

 

Lenlo is playing his usual radical out the box game, but his quick vote on me is puzzling. 

 

Gun to head, I'd actually vote to lynch Lenlo if the consensus is to not go No Lynch.  Still, I think we should go NO Lynch.

 

And that isn't a dumb question.  WHy would mafia claim mason when that is so easy to prove?  You get two for one scum with a claim like that.

 

I thought you were a de facto Red whisperer?