[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Cory Caboose]

Tell me when the hot tub is on

[amegakure]

@red you do realize me and cloud are two different entities and we are bound to disagree in opinions. That's the humor in a hydra each head wants to go a different direction. I'm quite okay with cloud putting pressure on you but since he's not here it's my turn to turn it in a different direction and broaden our scumhunting horizons. It's only day one me and cloud can come to consolidating our opinions when we achieve some more tangible leads besides the TWO people who have claims on thread besides yates...

[hazelkrs1]

But yeah honestly you might even not be able to see the sense behind some of Red's reads, cause well, a lot of times her reads WON'T make much sense when she's town lol. In fact, I don't have an easy way you can read her. My townread on her has more to do with the circumstances around her, how her train built and stuff. She got to the point of hammering fairly quick.

[Krakalakachkn]

@Red 

 

I don't know how you expect to win me over by completely misrepping what I said to the tenth degree.

 

 

 

Also let me point out exactly where one of your recent posts went wrong:

 

 

the only real reason people are voting me is for the Goat vote.  thats it.  theres no other case.

 

 

- krak: he reads 20 pages, votes me (tbh i thought his vote was the hammer) and his reason is "i dont have to catch up cause others didn't unvote her after she revealed".  how is this a townie move at all?  and now he's dog piling in on me, not have read the entire thread and acting like he knows the full reason why i'm being lynched.

 

 

First 20 pages

 

Red attempting to justify her joke vote on Tommy with a reference to the Goat in the books is pretty much a scum claim.

Her post about Dawn essentially demanding an apology is just a bad attempt to redirect attention onto Dawn, following Cory/Tommy and hoping to direct more heat onto the new player.  And as an aside, calling Dawn crass was not only rude but looked like Red was trying to sling dirt that wasn't based on gameplay.

 

##Vote Red

 

 

So there's only one real case against Red and it happens to fall within the first 20 pages and I happen to use that as a reason to vote her, and yet my only reason for voting, according to Red, is so "i dont have to catch up cause others didn't unvote her after she revealed."

[hazelkrs1]

Krak.... you said that others haven't unvoted so that she must still look pretty scummy, even tho you haven't read the whole thread apparently. It was completely ditching responsibility for your vote, and considering your vote put her in hammer range and it's still relatively early Day 1.... it was an absolutely dreadful vote.

 

Any vote of that significance (with the potential to end a day very early) better be made with the consideration of the entire situation. If you haven't even read the entire thread yet and yet still try to defend your vote on her.... well then you're either badly dropping the ball or are scum. My money's on the latter.

[Krakalakachkn]

But yeah honestly you might even not be able to see the sense behind some of Red's reads, cause well, a lot of times her reads WON'T make much sense when she's town lol. In fact, I don't have an easy way you can read her. My townread on her has more to do with the circumstances around her, how her train built and stuff. She got to the point of hammering fairly quick.

 

 

Comin straight outta 

 

[Nolder]

I like Krak this game.

Krak is always good.

Just depends how much effort he puts into a game.

 

the only real reason people are voting me is for the Goat vote.  thats it.  theres no other case.

That's a really odd statement considering I recently quoted the original reason I voted you which was before the GOAT thing even came up.

 

Nol eased his way it not he dog pile as well

I was already voting you.

But yeah I didn't like your reveal and it's one of the reasons I've kept my vote on you.

 

 

 

Tress's character reveal is interesting but is null on alignment.  too much WIFOM surrounding the character imo.  lady Frey wasn't in on the plan

I don't blame you for being wrong on this because that's the same thing I thought but upon looking up the character apparently she WAS in on the plan. So just so we're clear I'm not holding it against you but you're wrong here.

 

Desbat is perplexing ...  he's also distancing from my lynch.  and then his "hey Nol you want to thunderdome" is imo out of the blue.  why thunderdome  with him Despo?  whats the point, what do you hope to gain from it?

In all honesty I think he's misconstrued something random I've said (what I have no idea) and taken it as some kind of breadcrumb or hint for a good character or role and perceives me as a threat. I can't fathom any other reason for the sudden interest he's taken in me.

 

- Nol: for "playing fromt eh sidelines" as someone else said, and his dog pile onto my lynch after my reveal.  also, Nol generally doesn't tunnel on a person, he multi-takses in games iirc.  in this one, he's tunneling on me and putting all effort into getting me lynch and pressuring anyone who is even semi defending me.

1. I voted you before your reveal.

2. Actually I used to be really bad with tunneling, guess you don't remember. I think I've gotten a lot better but I still struggle not to get the tunnel vision. I'll give you that I'm tunneling here but I'm not going to apologize for it since I do think you're mafia. I'm just gonna make a mental note to curb that behavior tomorrow.  

 

 

 

Red if you are town I need you to make sense

 

I am going to do what I can to follow you on reread, but please start making sense

 

Brevity is the soul of wit

 

Be brief with your thoughts, make your stance and explain why concisely

 

 

look dude, if you aren't making sense out of my recent posts then theres nothing more i can do.  Rosetta stone has yet to make software to help people understand Redenese *shrugs*

 

i've already switched form "defend yourself" mode to "you're gonna be lynched so help consolidate the info so the town can use your lynch for catching scum" mode.  dunno what more you're expecting from me at this point *shrugs*

 

 

Calm down. There is plenty of time in this phase. If you are town, I am going to be your best friend until EOD.

 

If you'll be back before EOD I will have some questions for you.

 

Curious as to why you keep giving Red second chances and why you're trying so hard to get her to speak clearly.

It's like you're trying to dig her out of her hole. Any reason for that?

 

The first time a PR claims and is NK'ed that night, she'd pretty much be up on the chopping block. What part of "vettable claim" do yall not get?

Because Roleblockers and Strongman roles don't exist right?

Come on. Do you actually expect this to convince anyone?

You had me more about wasting the day than you do with "but her roooooole!".

[Nolder]

But yeah honestly you might even not be able to see the sense behind some of Red's reads, cause well, a lot of times her reads WON'T make much sense when she's town lol. In fact, I don't have an easy way you can read her. My townread on her has more to do with the circumstances around her, how her train built and stuff. She got to the point of hammering fairly quick.

So it has nothing to do with what she's said or what she's done, it's based entirely around what other people have said and done.

I think that's the definition of circumstantial evidence no? You may want to take a second look at Red before you make decisions on her based on other people.

[Cory Caboose]

through page 10, nobody really has done anything of note.

 

the only thing that seriously sticks out is Dawn.

 

7 while pages about spelling and grammar? Seriously?

Why did I even bother reading that?

Well, I'm here now, finally.

 

 

 

7 while pages about spelling and grammar? Seriously?

Why did I even bother reading that?

Well, I'm here now, finally.

Genuinely scummy OP.

Hello.

 

 

 

 

 

7 while pages about spelling and grammar? Seriously?

Why did I even bother reading that?

Well, I'm here now, finally.

Genuinely scummy OP.

Hello.

 

I'm already scummy? 

 

Okay then....

 

 

^ something seriously worth nothing

Dawn acknowledges, if nothing else, that Tommy suspects her. Two votes follow.

 

One of the reasons I have Dawn as a top suspect is that when called out by Tom/me after she disappears from the the thread (which isn't necessarily scummy but worth noting that she got quiet fast) I recall her acting confused on whether or not anyone suspected her.

 

Will continue.

[Cory Caboose]

Curious as to why you keep giving Red second chances and why you're trying so hard to get her to speak clearly.

It's like you're trying to dig her out of her hole. Any reason for that?

 

 

Because if she's town I don't want to mislynch her?

 

[Nolder]

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.
There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

[Cory Caboose]

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.

There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

 

This will come in handy on my reread - I'll get to know how you've handled her as a suspect up to this point.

What have you done to try and determine her alignment?

[Nolder]

 

Curious as to why you keep giving Red second chances and why you're trying so hard to get her to speak clearly.

It's like you're trying to dig her out of her hole. Any reason for that?

 

 

Because if she's town I don't want to mislynch her?

 

 

Obviously, but it's clear she's not getting through to you.

Why do you have such...patience for her?

It seems like you have a reason/motivation not to just write her off.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt though and trying to get a substantial reason.

If you're town you don't know she's town so why are you giving he so many chances?

[Nolder]

 

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.

There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

 

This will come in handy on my reread - I'll get to know how you've handled her as a suspect up to this point.

What have you done to try and determine her alignment?

 

What anyone does. Read and gauge her posts and actions.

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

Curious as to why you keep giving Red second chances and why you're trying so hard to get her to speak clearly.

It's like you're trying to dig her out of her hole. Any reason for that?

 

 

Because if she's town I don't want to mislynch her?

 

 

Obviously, but it's clear she's not getting through to you.

Why do you have such...patience for her?

It seems like you have a reason/motivation not to just write her off.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt though and trying to get a substantial reason.

If you're town you don't know she's town so why are you giving he so many chances?

 

What are you talking about?

 

This is my first serious read of the thread. She did some things that pinged me hard early and went into postspam mode - I haven't read all that much of her thoughts besides bulletins of others.

 

I'm not writing her off because I don't write anyone off.

 

The thread will tell me what it can, but this is still a day phase. The more clarity and transparency she provides now the better. Do you disagree?

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.

There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

 

This will come in handy on my reread - I'll get to know how you've handled her as a suspect up to this point.

What have you done to try and determine her alignment?

 

What anyone does. Read and gauge her posts and actions.

 

We will see.

[Krakalakachkn]

Krak.... you said that others haven't unvoted so that she must still look pretty scummy, even tho you haven't read the whole thread apparently. It was completely ditching responsibility for your vote, and considering your vote put her in hammer range and it's still relatively early Day 1.... it was an absolutely dreadful vote.

 

Any vote of that significance (with the potential to end a day very early) better be made with the consideration of the entire situation. If you haven't even read the entire thread yet and yet still try to defend your vote on her.... well then you're either badly dropping the ball or are scum. My money's on the latter.

 

 

 

 

 

Erm... just saw Krak put Red at L-1. Without ever mentioning her claim. Scummmmmmmm.

 

 

 

@Despo

Considering I've only read pages 1-20, my vote on Red is completely warranted. Also judging from the fact that there were 18 others who didn't feel the need to unvote Red after her claim tells me that your argument is terrible. Tommy too.

 

 

I actually used her existing train to show you that your scum lock on me is a facile argument

 

 

Ignore Woodhouse.  He thinks he's people.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, your argument is weak since Red's claim came after the first 20 pages and I proclaim for all to see that A) I haven't read past page 20, and B) My vote on Red is completely warranted due to the content contained within said pages.  I neither use others to justify my vote nor did I realize that 49 pages in with less than ~15 hours to deadline is "relatively early D1."

 

 

"Krak.... you said that others haven't unvoted so that she must still look pretty scummy"

 

 

Reaching Des is reaching.

[Andrej]

@Red - your reads are very out of sync with how this game has progressed. You are saying you really didn't start getting pressure until after your reveal, but you of all people should know that you were half way to being lynched before doing so. This didn't constitute as pressure? Why claim then? Also you continue to say that I have been opportunistic and pushing to get a PR lynched. Perhaps you forgot, but I STARTED your wagon. I am also now voting Mynd who I feel pretty confidently is teh scum. Have you read the last 15 pages or so? How do you reconcile this? Honestly you really just baffle me. That said - I think a lot of your later posts look more like townie death throes. I'm also a bit wary of how some have slid onto your train now that the game has progressed along with how some have been very staunch in opposition for their stated reasons.

[Lenlo]

@Red: What would I hope to gain from thunderdoming with Nol? Uh... one less scummie? I think you get the concept of thunderdoming... but yeah it's just kinda going mano y mano to duke it out and see who comes out on top. What makes you think I'm trying to distance with Nolder and not any of my other scum reads?

 

@Everyone voting Red: Seriously? You're content parking your vote on the single train town has achieved today? Are every one of you that confident that she'll flip scum? Confident enough to risk essentially wasting D1 going after one target? Red already claimed. If she's scum, she's not making it to endgame. The first time a PR claims and is NK'ed that night, she'd pretty much be up on the chopping block. What part of "vettable claim" do yall not get?

Your forgetting alot though. 

1) She wasnt the only train. Mish/Tress was also pushed heavily and still is by some.

2) You cant guarantee she wont make it to end game. Its best to deal with it here and now. Its also entirely possible that shes lieing about her role and as long as the doc protects claimed PR's then shes vetted by your reasoning, even if she herself doesnt do a thing.

3) On the off chance she does flip town then she is the most informative lynch for the day at the cost of a relatively weak PR. The fact that its so weak is why its so easy to fake claim I might add.

 

But yeah honestly you might even not be able to see the sense behind some of Red's reads, cause well, a lot of times her reads WON'T make much sense when she's town lol. In fact, I don't have an easy way you can read her. My townread on her has more to do with the circumstances around her, how her train built and stuff. She got to the point of hammering fairly quick.

So you dont have a town read on posts, you just have bad reads on everyone elses votes on her? She got to the point of hammering at a decent pace yeah, yet she hasnt been hammered. Why not? Scum would easily be able to make some BS reason to vote her. Dont say that all the scum are on her train already btw, because no one in this game is stupid enough to put the entire team together on a single train on D1, they arnt. This is an experienced crew.

 

If thats all you have to defend Red with, then were done here. Liking you less and less Des.

[Lenlo]

on her posts*

 

made a mistake on the second quote response.

[Red2111]

Do you think Mynd is trying to discern your alignment or do you think he's decided on you arbitrarily?

 

i'm unsure about Mynd.  i never trust him in a game tbh (put it this way, only time i've been on the same scum team with him, he turned out to be a usurper <_< ).  

 

with Mynd it normally takes a while for him to do something that i can claim as a definite town or scum move.

 

i'm not against pressure on him, if thats what you're asking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Red if you are town I need you to make sense

 

I am going to do what I can to follow you on reread, but please start making sense

 

Brevity is the soul of wit

 

Be brief with your thoughts, make your stance and explain why concisely

 

 

look dude, if you aren't making sense out of my recent posts then theres nothing more i can do.  Rosetta stone has yet to make software to help people understand Redenese *shrugs*

 

i've already switched form "defend yourself" mode to "you're gonna be lynched so help consolidate the info so the town can use your lynch for catching scum" mode.  dunno what more you're expecting from me at this point *shrugs*

 

 

Calm down. There is plenty of time in this phase. If you are town, I am going to be your best friend until EOD.

 

If you'll be back before EOD I will have some questions for you.

 

 

my only best friend in this game is myself.  anyone offering to be my best friend gets a well placed FoS.  

 

the only time i'll trust someone in this game is after i see how they flip, until then i trust you about as far as i can throw you.

 

also, you're attached to AJ and i'm about 99% on him being scum.  which means you're scum as well as far as i'm concerned, and i dont buy the good cop bad cop routine.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Red is town Cory. She's definitely not always easy to understand, pretty much never concise, and makes mountains out of molehills moreso than I ever will, but her response to pressure has been fairly townie imo.

 

More important is how her train has built up. Way too fast, way too easy imo. A lot of people seemed like they were content to park votes on her and then disappear again. Krak's vote on her for instance, was just dreadful.

 

^ valid points.

 

i really wish you weren't quiet in the beginning of all this, because i'd like to have more than just Womby's interactions to judge by given you two are the same "player" this game.

 

 

@Red: What would I hope to gain from thunderdoming with Nol? Uh... one less scummie? I think you get the concept of thunderdoming... but yeah it's just kinda going mano y mano to duke it out and see who comes out on top. What makes you think I'm trying to distance with Nolder and not any of my other scum reads?

 

@Everyone voting Red: Seriously? You're content parking your vote on the single train town has achieved today? Are every one of you that confident that she'll flip scum? Confident enough to risk essentially wasting D1 going after one target? Red already claimed. If she's scum, she's not making it to endgame. The first time a PR claims and is NK'ed that night, she'd pretty much be up on the chopping block. What part of "vettable claim" do yall not get?

 

re-thunderdoming - because i've seen scum go at each other to create distance on thread, so i'm suspicious of it.  especially given Wombats puppet mastering on the trains and this thunderdome coming out of no where when Nol is on one side of my lynch and you're on the other.

 

re-lynch  -  at this point Despo, my lynch would give the most info, more so that the Mishtress train imo as i've had more interaction and you have the added bonus of how people acted after i revealed and their excuses for bulldogging their vote on me (Nol, AJ, Krak, and Leelou).  i agree that the speed of the lynch shoulda flagged people though, and ignoring that is troubling as well as telling.  

 

but i do have misgivings about trying this late in D1 for a new train, hence why i revealed when i did.  i'd rather a lynch that gives info, than a hasty scramble lynch, or worse a no lynch dragging the unknowns into another day.  has DM really moved beyond the inability to pull together a new lynch from scratch this close to a deadline o.0  if so, i'm impressed and happy ^_^  its about damned time the game got back to how it was when i started first playing.

 

(drunk Red gets a bit reminiscent, and better at spelling XD )

 

 

@red you do realize me and cloud are two different entities and we are bound to disagree in opinions. That's the humor in a hydra each head wants to go a different direction. I'm quite okay with cloud putting pressure on you but since he's not here it's my turn to turn it in a different direction and broaden our scumhunting horizons. It's only day one me and cloud can come to consolidating our opinions when we achieve some more tangible leads besides the TWO people who have claims on thread besides yates...

 

you maybe one entity and have different play styles as well as thoughts and read.  but i have to look at you as one player in this game and judge how you both act as a unit rather than as individuals.  imo, you could be using the disadvantages of being a Hydra as a way to jump off my train without getting much suspicion and then use my lynch to gain town cred with the "change of heart i'll defend Red".  its an abrupt change, and abrupt changes send out flags.

 

 

@Red 

 

I don't know how you expect to win me over by completely misrepping what I said to the tenth degree.

 

 

 

 

So there's only one real case against Red and it happens to fall within the first 20 pages and I happen to use that as a reason to vote her, and yet my only reason for voting, according to Red, is so "i dont have to catch up cause others didn't unvote her after she revealed."

 

 

Krak - ur a better player than this man.  which is why your move pings and why youre vote is the scummiest.  which honestly, its hard to trump a scummy vote like Dawns, so i applaud you on that.

 

i'm not trying to win you over.  i'm not trying to win anyone over.  i'm simply trying to make the best of a situation i created for myself and salvage it so that the town makes sure to use my info once i'm lynched to get scum.

 

the point remains that 

 

- you haven't read the thread fully and damn near ninja hammered me.

 

- your basing your judgement of my train, on an assed out vote that i held onto out of stubbornness and people not unvoting me. Despos on point when he says yer trying to shirk responsibility for your vote in doing this.  this way when i flip town you can say "hey i was just going with the flow"

 

how is that type of move in the best interest for the town?  you're not even going to take the time to get the full story before you make up your mind, yer just gonna go with the crowd?

 

going with the crowd is a scum move, its a move to blend in and not give resistance.  its a votable offense imo and about the single most scumtastic thing i've seen all game.  and thats saying a lot (which you would know if you read the game, but you didn't)

[Lenlo]

Hey Des I have a suggestion. We should all lock ourselves in our role with a fill in the character word puzzle, so that we dont reveal our role but its very difficult to make it read out as another role.

 

Ill go first.

 

Th_s w_s a hil_ri_us str_t.

 

Letter bank: I, A, O.

 

((For those that dont get it im joking about the champions game he was in.))

[Cory Caboose]

Red I could explain to you why decided not to talk to me is -EV for town if you are town, but I don't think you really care

Sigh

 

Moving on.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

Curious as to why you keep giving Red second chances and why you're trying so hard to get her to speak clearly.

It's like you're trying to dig her out of her hole. Any reason for that?

 

 

Because if she's town I don't want to mislynch her?

 

 

Obviously, but it's clear she's not getting through to you.

Why do you have such...patience for her?

It seems like you have a reason/motivation not to just write her off.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt though and trying to get a substantial reason.

If you're town you don't know she's town so why are you giving he so many chances?

 

What are you talking about?

 

This is my first serious read of the thread. She did some things that pinged me hard early and went into postspam mode - I haven't read all that much of her thoughts besides bulletins of others.

 

I'm not writing her off because I don't write anyone off.

 

The thread will tell me what it can, but this is still a day phase. The more clarity and transparency she provides now the better. Do you disagree?

 

You're either the most patient and forgiving townie I've ever met playing mafia or you guys are scummates.

That's what I'm trying to say. Or at least that's how it looks when you keep prompting her to give better explanations.

It looks like you don't need convincing but you want her to sway others. Just how I am seeing it.

[Cory Caboose]

One of the most important parts of "scumhunting" is having a solid town basing compiling of likely-townies and mechanically cleared townies guiding the direction and POEing potential Mafia. Towns that are scattered, have no focus and no solid foundation will always be taken advantage of.

 

If you do not control the game and the narrative, the Mafia will.

 

Live together or die alone.