[Advanced/Experimental] Mass Effect I - Hydra Game - Game Over

[Lenlo]

But yes I did read it in full and I know what it was focused on. I disagree with her results though.

[Turin Turambar]

Despo, can you explain your ever changing read on WiFuM?

 

My thought is you know we are town. Which is why you both took so long to vote us early. You doubted you could get Ithi lynchedso back off. Cory comes in and gives you hope and a place to hide behind. So it is all systems go for WiFuM and ES trains. Happy day.

 

If verb really intended to switch he would have said something about it. Like enough is enough let's just lynch the scum.in hand.keep it simple.

[Darthe]

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

[Darthe]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:37 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Despo, can you explain your ever changing read on WiFuM?

 

My thought is you know we are town. Which is why you both took so long to vote us early. You doubted you could get Ithi lynchedso back off. Cory comes in and gives you hope and a place to hide behind. So it is all systems go for WiFuM and ES trains. Happy day.

 

If verb really intended to switch he would have said something about it. Like enough is enough let's just lynch the scum.in hand.keep it simple.

 

WiFuM is you... 

 

I honestly don't doubt that you and ithi get lynched late game if there is a late game.  You two are a sleeper cell in appearance and action so it is reasonable to have really wonky reads on you.  Also, I disagree with your read on Des.  He is far too reactive to plan ahead like that, which is more of a Verb thing.

[Andrej]

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 8:16 AM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:10 AM, Despothera said:

One other immensely entertaining thing to enjoy recently is AJ and TG having back and forth and "agreeing" with stuff as if they were two different slots or something. LOL!!!

Oh, hehe. Good one.

You want to see who else was doing that?

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:53 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:52 AM, Despothera said:

@BFG: Normally you scream townie to me, even when you're scum.
 
This game, that isn't even close to being the case.
 
Your recap posts aren't giving me much perspective into your actual thoughts, and I find myself disagreeing with a CRAP ton of em. Seriously, you continuously agree or side with someone who was just excessively scummy in that particular post. I could forgive a few examples of this sort of thing, but literally your catchup posts are littered with examples of you taking the exact opposite side I'd expect town!BFG to take here.
 
Not only that, but your partner Pray has been sniping from the sidelines all game.
 
Tell me why you shouldn't be the lynch today.

 
Agree on the BFG scum angle.  She's not appearing as a laser-focused scumhunter who analyzes the intent behind posts.  She seems like she's mailing the scumhunting in a bit.

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 5:14 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 3:23 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 3:14 PM, corycurren said:

Thing that really locks me clear on Clarthe is his reaction to the Jack/Amega exchange that was somehow genuine.

Clarthe points how fake it is on both sides - which it seemed to almost everyone ATM - and uses that to try and bury SH rather than to try and make a case on ES, which would have had credence. With both flips known... This is sorta a big deal :D

Killing ES was a major mistake by the Maf, which makes me wonder of the killer got redirected or something of that nature. ES would have been a major distraction today and probably a mislynch, and bodyguards aren't super PRs the way doctors are.

 
Mafia didn't NK ES
 
Pretty much confirmed that they didn't incidentally, since ES flipped as a powered BG of some kind. Had mafia targeted them with the NK, most likely they would have died along with them.
 
ES prob just wisely chose who mafia was gonna NK. I'm thinking they went for WiFuM imo. Notice how J-TAG didn't really put out any posts mentioning or responding to Ithi or Turin? They prob thought they were gonna be dead soon.
 
Pretty sure they didn't try targeting us
 
But yeah, Clarthe is close to (or wait mebbe already is on mah list ) LOCK CLEAR

 

 
Yep, pretty sure this clears WiFum, at least for me.  Them flipping town would have put a ton of pressure on us from multiple hydra teams.

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 2:48 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 2:46 PM, Verbal32 said:

hmmm
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol GFT

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 10:25 AM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

Regarding me saying "Save SH who is basically confirmed scum for later, lets look elsewhere for now): How anyone could not see this as protown is beyond me. I'm not concerned with finding one scum, I'd rather find them all. When I said what I said, we still had two days left. I wanted town to continue having a productive day as far as gathering evidence, reactions, and connections with others, instead of just letting SH be the de facto lynch and letting scum slip busvotes in easily. I still expected SH to be the lynch, I just wanted town to have the chance to get more accomplished with the time we had left. Unfortunately, I did get busy one of those days as the Champion's game was wrapping up, but that doesn't change the fact that my intent was for town to have as productive a D1 as it could. I've said it many times, strong D1's are a HUGE deal in helping town secure a win.

How is that protown? You can say that you saved SH in order to hunt more scum. In other's perspective,  it looks more like you prolonged his lynch in order for the town to mislynch someone else or not lynch them at all. It makes sense in hindsight because of how important a rolethat StrawHats had. It would make all sense for scum to prolong or prevent his lynch and your sentence echoes the same thing.

In fact that is exactly what happened. SH train had stalled and a new train on ES was being built. Guess who were on the new train?

And, you can give excuses about not being present to switch the votes to lynch SH when it actually mattered. Fine, you were busy. But, Verbal was present. He posted minutes online before the lynch. And, yet he was reluctant to switch the vote. Only Jack was online at the time and it looked like Verbal wanted to day to go to a no-lynch.

Nothing protown about it.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

Here he votes Evil Sibs, even tho Evil Sibs was actually Lily/Jack, not Leelou/Tina who he was fosing here. He apparently later changed it or something, asked Csarmi why he didn't accept his vote change... leading me to suspect that he might have changed his vote in pm or QT or something.

Is that all you have? You seem to be reaching now if you are thinking to case me based on a typo. I never mentioned Jack or Lily in the entire post. The case was clearly on leelou/Tina and it is obvious to anyone who read. I got the team name wrong as it was early in the day but it was clear to anybody that I was referring to Leelou/Tin, even to the mod.
 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

Anyways, the emphasized is the only commentary he gave on the biggest issue up to that point- Thane and Amega. He briefly says he sees the case against Thane/Amega but doesnt specifically say whether or not he agrees with it. He does bring up that it has a newbie in it however, apparently trying to appeal to town's guilt to not vote a newb (remember in the wot I did that showed how much Thane was playing up his n00bness?)

Another misrepping. Totally wrong.

I did not briefly talk about SH. I  directly answered a question Turin asked about whether SH is mafia or not. This was the same set up that Verbal was also trying yesterday, which I pointed out in my case.

Here is the post
 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

So TG and AJ are trying to get town believe that this vote somehow clears PFG as town. HA!

TG says that the train had stalled and AJ says that scum didn't have to worry about a random lynch and SH was a Power Role, therefore his teammates def wouldn't have bussed him!

The problem with you is that you or your case is that you are trying to dodge the fact that you did not vote for the scum and instead trying to project the fact that the late vote on them is a bus. Clearly, you are trying to lose the focus on the former and lay the blame on someone who was trying to get the lynch done than letting the scum take the advantage. Anyone who thinks logically would see that your team failed to vote even when there was an opportunity to do so.

On top of that you are trying to misrepresent that I did not comment on Sh. This is factually wrong and I had already talked about SH and why I felt they were town. That was a slip in your case.

And, on top of that, are trying to say that I was derailing by voting on a outlier who I thought was scum? Especially, when there was another equally probable train going on, which incidentally was started by your team? You are overreaching now

 

EVERYONE READ THIS POST.

 

LIKE REALLY READ IT.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:41 PM, TGlems said:

[...]

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:49 AM, ReleaseTheEvil said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ok so before my course starts this morning going to post a quick reads list that Despo is going to moan about. Here we go:

 

WiFuM (Ithi, Turin) - Town read. Pretty solid one. I like Turin's posts a lot and his approach to analyzing the posts of others. He's rational and his reasoning is sound.
YoloHashSwag (Despo, Verbal) - Desporrhea and Verbal. I think only Despo understands Despo sometimes and even then I'm not so sure. Verbal seems a bit more cautious this game than usual in that he isn't tunneling as much. Unfortunately I think they are town. Oh well. Despo unfortunately gets out of/doesn't care about inconsistencies between WoTs though but not really a scum tell for him. Problem is he won't post much differently as town or scum IMO.
J-TAG (AJ, TG) - J-TAG have been getting a ton of heat but I think they have handled it with a fair amount of poise and composure, despite what others may think. I think their responses have been good and keeping a pretty cool head about things has looked good in their favor. That being said not sure what to make of them not voting Day 1. Leaning town.
PFG (Pralaya, BFG) - This is where I think the scum is hiding. BFG's play seemed markedly different from a recent game and Pral is trying to save a sinking ship I think. Don't like how they looked on the lynch yesterday at all. Scummy.
Release the Leno (RTE, Lenlo) - LOCK-CLEAR (Christ, did I just say that?)
Sexy Sisters (Tina, Leelou) - Scum read. These two are either having their worst town game ever or are scum. I'm going for the latter.
CRUNK (Tom, CoryCurren) - Pretty sure Cory is in this game to make it unbearable for everyone else. All things aside when you sift through the showboating and general loud-mouthing he plays a sound game. Tom coming in is going to blow this game apart between these two and Despo. But town read right now.
Spliffanity (Krak, Dap) - Dap is MIA which makes me sad. Krak is cool in my books though. Town read on spliffies.
Clarthe (Cloud, Darthe) - Honestly null read. Darthe is playing a bit safer than usual I think and I would certainly say the same for Cloud who hasn't shot himself in the foot in a while.
HaXorz (Hally, Xthrax) - If there is one last scum it's here. Hallia is playing her usual game but not falling for it here. Something is off, I suppose it's more gut than anything else but I'm going with a scum lean. Would like to hear more though.

 

So, pretty colored list time:

 

RTL

WiFum

Spliffanity

 

CRUNK

#YOLO

J-TAG

 

PFG

SexySisters

HaXorz

Clarthe

 

## Vote PFG

 

Is this where I kiss Despo's ass now so he doesn't call my post scummy?

 

 

RTE, all these reads are terrible.  All of them.  This is why I wanted you to come in and give input. 

 

@RTE - What do you think of Pral's vote that basically secured teh lynch on SH?  Do you think it was just distancing?  Why do you use the exact same meta argument on PFG and on Swaggy P but come to different conclusions?  Can you expand on your read of SS as to why you say they are having their "worst game ever"?

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:04 AM, Despothera said:

There's actually a lot of other irregularities and pings from them (like Amega's recent reread posts are crap), but I for one would rather set them aside as practically confirmed scum and lynch elsewhere.

 

You want to lynch elsewhere.  Not look elsewhere.  There is a huge difference.  But, as scum you probably can't help yourself from having to lie about these sorts of things. 

 

As for the comparison AJ made about cop claim, I agree they aren't the same situation.  In this situation you are desperately trying to save a teammate by redirecting town to "lynch elsewhere" while straddling the line of pretending to still find them scummy.  Then you change the narrative to pretend it was all for info and all you wanted was to keep discussion going.  Gross.

 

And then you have the gall to claim you still expected SH to be the lynch.  Earlier you said to "lynch elsewhere."  Now you claim you expected their lynch.  Your flailing makes me laugh. 

 

As for changing the vote in a PM, that is garbage and you know it.  Scum would say something like that to try and sow fear.

 

And then all that garbage about the train stalling.  You agree the train stalled.  Turin agreed the train stalled.  Everyone agrees teh train stalled.  But you somehow say that, in a situation where there is no penalty for No Lynch, restarting the train to secure a lynch against a powered scum role was nothing more than a ploy for town cred?  Seriously?   Yes, it does give town cred, because voting counts.  For a lot.  Whether or not it was pointed out that the train stalled doesn't change the one thing that actually has power in this game, the vote. 

 

And about how Pray not justifying his vote invalidates it is illogical and you know it.

 

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:38 PM, Darthe said:

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

 

You seriously, 100% doubt that both my team and PFG are town? Or better yet, believe that we're both scum because I am trying to prevent what I feel like is a mislynch?

 

VD is the obvious lynch for today. Do you have a reason why you feel like your vote isn't warranted there and better placed on me instead?

 

Lay it out for me Darthe.

[Darthe]

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:40 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:31 PM, Pralaya said:

Wow, already at L-3.

 

Yes, my read on Thane was wrong. As Turin mentioned, I understood the case against them but I wrongfully assumed that the slips were due to newbieness. It is clear now that it wasn't because of that and I was wrong. Most of my reads during my Day 1 was based on that assumption.

 

That is the reason I went after Ithi/Turin because I thought they were pushing hard a lynch who I thought was town. It does look bad in hingsight but there were already other things that were already going on for my vote to be actually a distraction. Cory was already going after Jack long before I voted Ithi/Turin and if it was actually my intention to prevent lynch on SH, I could have joined that train which was already at 3 votes. I voted Turin because I felt he was actually scum at that point.

 

Finally, I am surprised at how quickly today's trains have been pushed. Especially by those who were not even present in the scum lynch. Alien/Jailkeeper is one of the strongest role that scum could have and the day almost went to a non-lynch, Cory was conveniently not available to hammer them. J-Tag was absent and nowhere to be found during deadline. Verbal was available but did not vote. It was pointed out by Ithi too Verbal gave the excuse that he was re-reading (Co-incidence or not, they are the ones on my train right now)

 

In fact, Verbal was trying to nudge me and set me up since yesterday. When Ithi pointed out why I had not given a read on Amega (which I had earlier), Verbal jumped qickly to agree with her. Ithi had asked it because she was on the phone and had not read my post on SH, but I am pretty sure Verbal had and that nudge looked bad because of it.

 

Overall, I feel that verb/des is pushing a convenient train on us. I had a wrong read on Thane to be town due to his newbieness and that was the cause for my votes.

So bizarre that in this entire post, the names TG, AJ, or J-TAG never appear lol

 

Only time he references them he its only cryptically- "the other train", and funny thing is you'd think if he would comment on anyone's vote on him it would have been the FIRST vote on him, from AJ.

 

Instead he chooses to fos me and Verb the whole time, even tho we're not the countertrain lol.

 

Obvious scum is obvious.

 

Tell me Pray, what do you think of AJ's vote on you?

 

 

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:47 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:40 PM, Despothera said:

 

So bizarre that in this entire post, the names TG, AJ, or J-TAG never appear lol

 

Only time he references them he its only cryptically- "the other train", and funny thing is you'd think if he would comment on anyone's vote on him it would have been the FIRST vote on him, from AJ.

 

Instead he chooses to fos me and Verb the whole time, even tho we're not the countertrain lol.

 

Obvious scum is obvious.

 

Tell me Pray, what do you think of AJ's vote on you?

 

 

Fourth paragraph, where I mention how J-Tag was missing from the scum lynch, just like you.

 

I FoSed because your actions were suspicious. Both from yesterday and today. I was planning to mention that today anyway when i was online, but then I saw that you had already started voting me.

 

AJ's vote on me is indeed weird and it is opportunistic too. But, it is expected since he is voting for the competent train.

 

 

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 7:00 PM, Pralaya said:

My main feeling came when I saw how Verbal failed to vote Thane even when he was online. Why would he delay the vote? At that point, Jack was the only one active among us and it was looking like going to a no-lynch, 

 

Second, it isn't co-incidence that all the three votes on me right now are people who were absent from the scum lynch.

 

Then, both you and Verbal have been talking about both jack and me/BFG since the lynch. Trying to push the next day.

 

It is the combination of all these which is making me FOS you.

 

I give setup and then in bold the interesting parts of the responses.  Pay special attention to the fact that Des/Verb are one hydra and tell me if anyone else is seeing what I am seeing here.  Does anyone catch how Laya tried to slip past his own meta read to use a retaliatory read, thus double dipping on one person?  It is a good use of hydra manipulation but ultimately is flawed.  

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:11 PM, Andrej said:

Verb dukes it out with Turin about the sign-up thread and how Turin is pushing an easy lynch because of it. NEITHER OF THEM VOTE THEIR PROCLAIMED FOUND-SCUM.

 

Both go quiet.

 

StrawHats is at L-2. Despo swoops in, makes a pretty nice looking catch up post and then decides that SH should be set aside since they have claimed and started up the counter wagon on (now confirmed town) Evil Sibs.

 

Continues to push attention away from SH, piggy-backing with Cory and wanting WiFuM and ES to be the competing trains over SH (who he still has listed as a high scum read, btw)

 

Doesn't help to lynch SH with DL approaching although Verb had 'an eye on the clock'.

 

On the topic of not voting our very first scum read on D1....bleh.  If you think that is a tell, then so be it.

 

On the topic of going quiet.....it was the weekend.  I'm not online over the weekend.  Build a bridge and get over it.

 

On the topic of "eye on the clock".....have you thought about Occam's Razor?  What is the most likely explanation given what you know about me as a mafia player? 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:13 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:04 PM, Verbal32 said:

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

 

This is all you're really going to bring to the table Verb?

 

Your partner is one of the most sarcastic players around lol. And you think MY cases are too heavy on the cream?

 

 

Did you miss the posts before that?  This was an extra tidbit, and this is what you focus on from me?  Des has a history of playing this way all the time.  You do not.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:13 PM, TGlems said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:53 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 1:48 PM, TGlems said:

@SwaggyP.  Answer me this.  Given that there is no penalty for not achieving a lynch, do you really think SH would have gotten lynched yesterday if PFG hadn't voted them right before DL like they did?

 

2 answers:

 

1.  Yes.

2.  If not for whatever reason, what are the obvious next steps?  Allow me to assist here:

 

Step 1:  town probably lynches SH the next day anyway.

Step 2:  YOLO looks downright awful in that situation.  Like, reeeeally bad.

 

That should be enough to answer your question.

 

Not just YOLO, but quite a few hydras, which is what we've been talking about for most of today.  I don't know if I can understand your scenario about Swaggy's potential motivations given how your hydra partner has framed cases around the SH and ES flips. 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:00 PM, Verbal32 said:

No guarantee, but damn....it was as good as.  ES was the lynch the next day.  As scum didn't die that night, I guess this means ES made a good block.  If so, why are we discussing this?

 

Even if they were protecting team A and ES was shot by scum (so they didn't have the ability to PGO kill the attacker), this is all unknown by the town and therefore not worth assuming things over.

 

Bottom line:  scum either shot ES or ES made a good block.  In the first case, poor shot by scum on a VERY likely lynch the following day.  If the second, then whatever.  It did remove the distraction to town, which was a good thing.

 

I agree with the bold. 

 

 

 

Any response to RTE's reads?

 

 

Re: Des' framing of situations - I'm not sure I have a good answer, lol.  I know he's town?  Heh.  Hell, I asked the mods if I could have a gun in our QT for me to shoot Des with.  >_>

 

Re: RTE.....I have been focusing more on you guys today, so I'll need to take a peek again.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:37 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Despo, can you explain your ever changing read on WiFuM?

 

My thought is you know we are town. Which is why you both took so long to vote us early. You doubted you could get Ithi lynchedso back off. Cory comes in and gives you hope and a place to hide behind. So it is all systems go for WiFuM and ES trains. Happy day.

 

If verb really intended to switch he would have said something about it. Like enough is enough let's just lynch the scum.in hand.keep it simple.

 

Seriously.

[Darthe]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:45 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:38 PM, Darthe said:

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

 

You seriously, 100% doubt that both my team and PFG are town? Or better yet, believe that we're both scum because I am trying to prevent what I feel like is a mislynch?

 

VD is the obvious lynch for today. Do you have a reason why you feel like your vote isn't warranted there and better placed on me instead?

 

Lay it out for me Darthe.

 

 

 

It's certainly looking that way.  VD is an odd choice.  

[Darthe]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:45 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:38 PM, Darthe said:

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

Do you have a reason why you feel like your vote isn't warranted there and better placed on me instead?

 

 

Well, that you keep asking me this is a pretty good one.

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:37 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Despo, can you explain your ever changing read on WiFuM?

 

My thought is you know we are town. Which is why you both took so long to vote us early. You doubted you could get Ithi lynchedso back off. Cory comes in and gives you hope and a place to hide behind. So it is all systems go for WiFuM and ES trains. Happy day.

 

If verb really intended to switch he would have said something about it. Like enough is enough let's just lynch the scum.in hand.keep it simple.

 

This is a nice little assumption.  And a pretty little picture you paint.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:47 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:45 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:38 PM, Darthe said:

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

 

You seriously, 100% doubt that both my team and PFG are town? Or better yet, believe that we're both scum because I am trying to prevent what I feel like is a mislynch?

 

VD is the obvious lynch for today. Do you have a reason why you feel like your vote isn't warranted there and better placed on me instead?

 

Lay it out for me Darthe.

 

It's certainly looking that way.  VD is an odd choice.

 

Why do you think that? Do you not find our cases against him compelling? Do you think the evidence is only circumstantial and instead those pushing it are nefarious?

 

TELL US SOMETHING.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:48 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:45 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:38 PM, Darthe said:

Reasons PFG is the better lynch than J-Tag:  ultimately rendered irrelevant by them being teammates, however for the purpose of clarity on thread I will respond.

 

Until that point, can I ask why in the world AJ is pushing against the lynch of his only competing train?  I can't seriously believe he thinks them both town trains or that he expects the endeavor will do either of them any good, leading me to think that he has a stronger teammate.  All around it has been a poorly handled situation but I suppose that couldn't be helped with a town that has come out of the gates so strong or a mafia team that has shown themselves this... underwhelming?  I can't think of a polite word to put here.

Do you have a reason why you feel like your vote isn't warranted there and better placed on me instead?

 

Well, that you keep asking me this is a pretty good one.

 

First time I've asked

 

And more or less it is required that I ask since you aren't being very expository in the first place.

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:47 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:37 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Despo, can you explain your ever changing read on WiFuM?

 

My thought is you know we are town. Which is why you both took so long to vote us early. You doubted you could get Ithi lynchedso back off. Cory comes in and gives you hope and a place to hide behind. So it is all systems go for WiFuM and ES trains. Happy day.

 

If verb really intended to switch he would have said something about it. Like enough is enough let's just lynch the scum.in hand.keep it simple.

 

Seriously.

 

 

I doubt scum teams up for a brash move like this on YOLO today.  Doesn't fit.  Is Turin the one getting manipulated here?

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:56 PM, Andrej said:

Why do you think that? Do you not find our cases against him compelling? Do you think the evidence is only circumstantial and instead those pushing it are nefarious?

 

Your case is a classic example of a strawman argument.  You build up something other than what is there, and proceed to bash it.

[Andrej]

The thread doesn't lie Verb.

 

It's all there for anyone to see if they happen to care enough to actually analyze.

 

The case against you is sound.

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:04 PM, Andrej said:

The thread doesn't lie Verb.

 

It's all there for anyone to see if they happen to care enough to actually analyze.

 

The case against you is sound.

 

I could say the same of you, broseph.

[Verbal32]

Hell, I could prob make a case that OUR case on YOU is a strawman.  We can argue endlessly about this.  Town decides, collects info, and lynches informatively from there.

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:17 PM, Verbal32 said:

I could say the same of you, broseph.

 

 

You know, somebody said something about sarcasm and how it's scummy or something.  I forget.  Maybe you can remind me.

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:19 PM, Verbal32 said:

Hell, I could prob make a case that OUR case on YOU is a strawman.

 

Would be epic lulz.

[Ithillian Turambar]

## vote AJ

 

Seriously give a man an inch and he'll call it six.

 

We're not supposed to be distracting from the Lynch of the day lol.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:53 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 1:31 AM, Andrej said:

@Turin - I think this the post you're talking about. Here Amega soft-defends #Yolo by trying to downplay Turin's push on them as either brash or a typical D1 tunneling affair.

 

Which is more likely - Amega trying to buy cred with a townie by soft-defending, or an unnecessary distance move when we were the ones under fire from WiFum? I notice that you like to trump up small details and make them bigger than they are. Keep it simple - the simple answer is Amega buying some cred with Des & I. If we were lynched, it looks good for him. Again, this is the simplest answer - stop trying to muddy the waters.

 

For one I never viewed Amega's post as a distancing move. At the time I actually found it pretty sound and didn't put a lot of weight into Turin attacking Despo so early in the game as it's become more or less a given for this site. What you say is viable. Yes, Amega could have been looking to garner a little town-cred with your team. I believe that he was actually trying to downplay Turin's case against you.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:00 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:35 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:17 AM, Despothera said:

Also, thinking that the mafia team would have NKed a Bodyguard directly last night is incredibly low level mafia type thinking. :disappoint: @ Ithi for thinking that that was what happened.

 

Besides the fact that a BG is a nerfed Doc so not really much to worry about

 

Besides the fact that Jack gave some wifom about scum targeting them possibly being bad for them (most smart scum teams would have recognized it as wifom, but still would have just shot elsewhere to be safe)

 

And besides the fact that most people didn't buy the claim, especially after SH's Tracker claim was proven false

 

Jack/Lily were by far the easiest mislynch scum had. The way Jack voted and unvoted after the Tracker claim made them look AWFUL, and most people had them as high scum reads. Even if there's a chance scum couldn't get town to mislynch them the next day, at the very least Lily/Jack would have been a big distraction today were they still around. You don't NK your easiest mislynch target as scum, EVER. Don't assume dumb scum. Smart scum chooses to kill Lily/Jack last night 0/100 times.

 

This post is also bad and reads very much like an attempt to distance from the NK by saying the scum team made a 'low-level' type play that Almighty Despothera would never do.

 

Please.

 

Jack/Lily claimed a town PR.

Mafia wants to kill town PRs.

 

It's that simple. Mislynch opportunity or not, there was no guarantee that ES would've been lynched, especially unCC'd.

 

No guarantee, but damn....it was as good as.  ES was the lynch the next day.  As scum didn't die that night, I guess this means ES made a good block.  If so, why are we discussing this?

 

Even if they were protecting team A and ES was shot by scum (so they didn't have the ability to PGO kill the attacker), this is all unknown by the town and therefore not worth assuming things over.

 

Bottom line:  scum either shot ES or ES made a good block.  In the first case, poor shot by scum on a VERY likely lynch the following day.  If the second, then whatever.  It did remove the distraction to town, which was a good thing.

 

I am assuming nothing around ES's NK. Turin already pointed out what they're role actually entailed as per MS Wiki, but I think he is right in regards to that Jack was likely lying about having a PGO/Vengeful mechanic to ward off the NK. Them being strong-willed and thus unblockable fits in my mind to the role the SH flipped with, which was basically a super charged RB/Mafia Doc.

 

I am not looking to discuss the things we don't know around ES's N/A. The reason this topic has even come up is because YOUR TEAMMATE thought it would be a good idea to use their death as a way to incriminate my team. I'll pull the quote if you need to see it again.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:45 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:11 PM, Andrej said:

Verb dukes it out with Turin about the sign-up thread and how Turin is pushing an easy lynch because of it. NEITHER OF THEM VOTE THEIR PROCLAIMED FOUND-SCUM.

 

Both go quiet.

 

StrawHats is at L-2. Despo swoops in, makes a pretty nice looking catch up post and then decides that SH should be set aside since they have claimed and started up the counter wagon on (now confirmed town) Evil Sibs.

 

Continues to push attention away from SH, piggy-backing with Cory and wanting WiFuM and ES to be the competing trains over SH (who he still has listed as a high scum read, btw)

 

Doesn't help to lynch SH with DL approaching although Verb had 'an eye on the clock'.

 

On the topic of not voting our very first scum read on D1....bleh.  If you think that is a tell, then so be it.

 

On the topic of going quiet.....it was the weekend.  I'm not online over the weekend.  Build a bridge and get over it.

 

On the topic of "eye on the clock".....have you thought about Occam's Razor?  What is the most likely explanation given what you know about me as a mafia player? 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:13 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:04 PM, Verbal32 said:

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

 

This is all you're really going to bring to the table Verb?

 

Your partner is one of the most sarcastic players around lol. And you think MY cases are too heavy on the cream?

 

Did you miss the posts before that?  This was an extra tidbit, and this is what you focus on from me?  Des has a history of playing this way all the time.  You do not.

 

First bold:

 

D1 scum read - Meh. Never really said it was a scumtell nor do I find it a particularly solid one. My point was that both you and Des were counter-reasoning with Ithi/Turin but your overall defense felt lackluster without placing a vote until later.

 

Weekend - That's fine and it's not really something I could prove one way or the other. I'm not saying you guys intentionally ducked the thread, but the quietness definitely made me uneasy after such a big entrance. I was also very busy on D1 and couldn't really get involved in the game until the last few days, so I'm not using that as a sole reason for suspecting your team.

 

OR - Sure. Removing all assumptions I come to 2 conclusions.

 

1. You were slow playing the lynch. For whatever reason I don't know why.

 

2. You were looking to avoid having to kill a PR on your mafia team and allow the Day to finish in a NL.

 

Second bold: Yeah, I missed them the first time. I was sorta busy grabbing different quotes along the way and then responding to new ones as they popped up. I haven't forgotten about you Verb, don't fret.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:23 PM, Ithillian said:

## vote AJ

 

Seriously give a man an inch and he'll call it six.

 

We're not supposed to be distracting from the Lynch of the day lol.

 

Distracting? VD is the lynch of the Day, which I am very heavily pushing.

[BFG]

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:21 PM, Lenlo said:

BFGs wot, since I'm on a phone ima just say it without quoting it, is bad. Baaaaaaad. When I get to a computer and am able to actually deal with a wot that size I'll give reasons but just know that I think it's baaaaaaaad.

 

Geez she's turning me into a sheep.

To expand a little.

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 3:13 AM, amegakure said:

im the tracker. slow your boat!

 

I've spoilered the posts that were made from Amega's claim AMD your game play.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 4:24 AM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 2:35 AM, TGlems said:

I'll comment on my partner's reads a bit, basically where I disagree.

 

I thought Amega's first post was gross.  A joke vote along with a justification for it?  I've had a scum read since then.  Thane's fence sitting post didn't tell me much since he is brand new.

 

Ithi looks scummy to me.  It more looks like she is running commentary than actual scumhunting.  But I like Turin's input so far so overall null on wifum.

 

Similar with the siblings.  Lily's tone doesn't look good but Jack has been reasonable and I have a town read on him. 

 

Only other place I don't agree is on the RTL as I didn't like Len's catchup post nearly as much as AJ did. 

 

Anything I don't comment on I agree with AJ

D: Why not?

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 3:15 PM, Lenlo said:

Despo those might be the nicest things youve said about my town game in a looooong time. ;_; <3

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 3:58 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 3:49 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 3:15 PM, Lenlo said:

Despo those might be the nicest things youve said about my town game in a looooong time. ;_; <3

 

This DOES remind me of something tho hehe-

 

You say you wanna become a better townie. Well... ditch the "third voter" strategy. It's pretty much useless and low level type of play. Mebbe worth it as a #gamestarter, that's about it really tho.

 

But yeah you have slowly but surely gotten better as time has gone on Lenlolol. I mean, there was basically only one direction to go but up, right?

 

 

For my town play, yeah. Im hoping is an exponential increase though and doesnt flatline.

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 7:02 PM, Lenlo said:

Hey! I dont force nuttin.

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 7:30 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 7:04 PM, corycurren said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 7:02 PM, Lenlo said:

Hey! I dont force nuttin.

 

I like you. Disagree with you, but like you.

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:41 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:24 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

-Release the Leno (RTE, Lenlo) improved their game, for which i am grateful. More information to work with. Moved from scum to null/leaning scum for now, waiting to see more from them, see if they manage to convince me they are town. Lenlo, keep posting the good stuff, too much jokes might get you into unwanted trouble.

I don't care what attention it gets me, I shall continue with the jokes. Maybe I'll try and work some actual content in there to though,

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 10:08 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:44 PM, corycurren said:

Slot02 : YoloHashSwag (Despo, Verbal)

 

Slot09 : Clarthe (Cloud, Darthe)

Slot08 : Spliffanity (Krak, Dap)

Slot12 : HaXorz (Hally, Xthrax)

 

 

Slot03 : J-TAG (AJ, TG)

Slot04 : PFG (Pralaya, BFG)

Slot06 : Sexy Sisters (Tina, Leelou)

Slot11 : Straw Hats (Amega, Thane)

 

Slot05 : Release the Leno (RTE, Lenlo)

Slot01 : WiFuM (Ithi, Turin)

Slot10 : Evil Siblings (Lily, Jack)

I dont like these reads and not just for the obvious reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 10:21 PM, Lenlo said:

Well lets get the obvious one out of the way. You have me as scum and im not. Of course, who didnt expect that?

 

Then you have one of my biggest town reads as scum and one of my biggest scum reads as town with another as null. Again kinda obvious seeing as id given some reads earlier.

 

One thing im curious about the most though is why the bolds? Whats that mean?

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 10:34 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 10:23 PM, corycurren said:

everything was bolded in original post, not sure what happened with the formatting.

 

if you're town, you're supposed to try and determine my alignment. tell me what read is wrong and why you think so concisely and i'll tell you why i think i'm right.

 

this is mafia, rite?

Weird. Bolder Musta messed up then. My lab is starting so in afew hours when I get done I'll try and give you specifics. That work with you?

 

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 10:34 PM, Lenlo said:

Bolded musta* stupid auto correct.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 12:55 AM, Lenlo said:

Not buying it. Still want to lynch Amega/Thane. Cory im gonna get you the reasons why I dont like your list soon, as I just got out of lab.

 

So here you still want to lynch them, which is fine (and implied by the lack of unvote)

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:08 AM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:44 PM, corycurren said:

Slot02 : YoloHashSwag (Despo, Verbal) - 

Agreed on this, nothing wrong here.

Slot09 : Clarthe (Cloud, Darthe) - I find them scummy. I havnt liked Clouds posts many of them have been absolute crap to me and Darthes damage control hasnt mitigated it enough for me.

Slot08 : Spliffanity (Krak, Dap) - Agreed on this.

Slot12 : HaXorz (Hally, Xthrax) - I dont see how you can have a town read on them. They havnt posted enough imo and what they have posted hasnt been good. They are a null for me.

 

 

Slot03 : J-TAG (AJ, TG) - Agreed.

Slot04 : PFG (Pralaya, BFG) - Im leaning town on them but can understand why you get null from them, so no problem here.

Slot06 : Sexy Sisters (Tina, Leelou) - Not sure how your getting null. I find them pretty scummy. I havnt liked Leelous unexplained posts or what few posts Tina has made. They arnt big scum, but they are scum none-the-less to me.

Slot11 : Straw Hats (Amega, Thane) - Big disagree. How are these guys not scum to you? They reek. Is it that tracker claim? Cause thats bull crap and I dont believe it.

 

Slot05 : Release the Leno (RTE, Lenlo) - Me. Town. Why is disagree should be obvious.

Slot01 : WiFuM (Ithi, Turin) - I have them as town. I want to know why you have them as scum. Buddying with Verb? Cause I view them against Des/Verb as town on town violence because it went unchecked for so long. I feel scum on either side would have done something to stop it if a scum was involved.

Slot10 : Evil Siblings (Lily, Jack) - Im null/scum on them atm. I dont like their bodyguard claim and the rest of their play leaves much to be desired, so no problem here.

Responses in black.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:19 AM, Lenlo said:

Best lynch today? No probably not. Most likely lynch that I would accept today? Yup. 

 

For Ithi and Turin thats par for the course imo and I really think the violence with Des/Verb is town on town.

 

But here you're saying they're not the best lynch of the day. Did you change your mind or did you always think this? If you always thought this then why have you posted so much fluff I'm the last 20 odd hours instead of explaining who would be a better lynch? Who did you think was a better lynch?

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:25 AM, Lenlo said:

I dont feel like going back and find the actual posts for quotes but Thanes posts have been what has mostly given me scummy vibes from them and nothing Amega has done has mitigated those for me. Then that fake interaction with Jack where he claimed tracker leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I dont believe him and want him lynched. I did exaggerate with the word reek though ill admit. I couldnt think of a better one and it may have been strong.

 

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:20 AM, Jack_D said:

Such as Lenlo's willing to call out anyone voting or putting des/verb under suspicion.

Stop trying to make this a thing. This isnt a thing. I have not been doing that so stop misrepping my actions. There were reasons for each and every one of those pings that werent focused on Verb/Des.

 

 

But now you want to lynch them again, so why did you earlier say that they weren't the best lynch for the day?

 

 

 

So within 30 minutes you go from wanting to lynch them to not thinking they're the best lynch of the day to wanting to lynch them again. Why the change in thought?

[Lenlo]

I never stopped wanting to lynch them. They were on my scum list as was afew others. Anyone on my scum list I want to lynch. Some I want to lynch more, yes, but I still want to lynch them.

 

You can still think someone isnt the best lynch for the day and still want to lynch them.