Seanchan truce

[badhead]

With Rand gone. Do you think the rest of the world would really be able to hold on to the truce, and the borders with the seanchan? 

[damandred]

If the shadow world rand wove in his battle with the DO is the world he left behind, the truce holds. Acording to moiraine, the pattern demands balance. Where there was chaos at the beginning of third age, the fourth will begin in peace.

Plus in Aviendha' vision in tGS the seanchan keep the peace its the Aiel who break it, and that future has apparently been changed.

[Durinax]

most of randland has no choice, if they went up against the seanchan now they wouldn't have the manpower to sustain a war/hold any lands gained

[michellem]

I do think that after surviving Tarmon Gai'don (and for the world leaders, seeing that the battle could not have been done without the Seanchan) everyone will be more focused on rebuilding their lands for at least, I dunno, 50 years or so. And when everyone gets fifty years to get used to the current situation, there is a bigger chance the truce will be kept. And, like damandred said, the vision Avi had has been changed; the Aiel now have been included in the truce, so her vision cannot become reality.

[Sabio]

Not to mention the Seanchan will be focused on reclaiming their land, so they last thing they want is to start wars in Randland.  I think they are content to keep things the way they are for now.  They no longer will be facing fractured nations but if they tried anything they would face a united Randland, not to mention Mat probably would resist going to war against Randland.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Of course. For a time. Eventually, the Dragon's Peace will crumble. But that's what happens as the Wheel turns.

[mb]

Actually Rand is still alive.  His soul lives in Moridin's body.  Though only a few know/suspect it.

 

From the suldam collaring Moghedien, it seems that the Seanchan intend to keep the truce.

 

I guess the truce would last at least as long as the Tarmon Gaidon survivors are alive.  Perhaps it would still last several generations after their deaths.

[DemandredFO]

Eventually the truce fails or something because some epigraphs are from Great Aravalon, Taralon, etc.

[damandred]

You have to wonder in this new peacefull world what Birgitte and Gaidal will be doing to keep it so.

[Matt's Pink Lace]

That depends. If the Wise Ones and Aiel can't get used to the fact that the Seanchan won't give up their Aiel Damane, they'll have issues

 

In my opinion, the most dangerous person to the peace is Elayne. The last battle was coming and the whole time she was just trying to gain as much power as possible in those last couple books

[damandred]

That depends. If the Wise Ones and Aiel can't get used to the fact that the Seanchan won't give up their Aiel Damane, they'll have issues

 

In my opinion, the most dangerous person to the peace is Elayne. The last battle was coming and the whole time she was just trying to gain as much power as possible in those last couple books

Yeah your right she did go kind of tyrannical near the end. She wanted to exacute Perrin until, she was dangled the carrot of being the head of a alliance of nations, even Egwene was wary of her, after her stunt with the Kin, she more than anyone seemed most opposed to the dragon peace. She got cairhien, the dragons, plus ready gateways provided by hundreds of channelers on tap. She done very well out of the last battle, and until the seanchan regain their homeland is the most powerfull ruler in the world.

[Sabio]

I don't think she ever really wanted to kill Perrin, she had to of known killing Rand's best friend wouldn't of gone over well, I think it was more of an idle threat to try and scare Faile and Perrin into doing what she wanted.  She isn't really that powerful right now, only the Borderlands have suffered more then Andor.  She has a lot of rebuilding to do not to mention the kin and everyone will start to go their own ways, everyone know about dragons now, and Brigette was smart enough not to allow Elayne to have the horn.  It did seem strange that right before the last battle and when she just got her own throne secured she suddenly makes a grab for Cairhien. 

[damandred]

I don't think she ever really wanted to kill Perrin, she had to of known killing Rand's best friend wouldn't of gone over well, I think it was more of an idle threat to try and scare Faile and Perrin into doing what she wanted. She isn't really that powerful right now, only the Borderlands have suffered more then Andor. She has a lot of rebuilding to do not to mention the kin and everyone will start to go their own ways, everyone know about dragons now, and Brigette was smart enough not to allow Elayne to have the horn. It did seem strange that right before the last battle and when she just got her own throne secured she suddenly makes a grab for Cairhien.

All will need to rebuild. Some more than others, but, all nations after the last battle will have just lost a good percent of their young blood. If the dragon peace holds, armies will become irrelevant, and it will come down to poltical and economic power. As shes the head of the biggest alliance of nations in the world and has the resouces of two nations, and a ready supply of gateways, ( which will make her a fortune ), plus Andor was already one of the riches nations in the world, with its gold mines. Ok she will have to rebuild Caemlyn, but when she does she will stand head and shoulders above the rest with the possible exception of seanchan.

[mb]

Some other possible exceptions besides Seanchan::

-Aiel; since they will be allowed to go to any nation.

-White Tower; they also would have a ready supply of Gateways.  And they would probably be able to influence nations through at least their eyes-and-ears.  And a number of them can make cuendillar; and a few can create terangreal.

-Sea Folk; Tarmon Gaidon seemed to not affect their islands.  And a number of them have learned Gateways.

 

 

Eventually the truce fails or something because some epigraphs are from Great Aravalon, Taralon, etc.

new place names could indicate almost anything.

[Jason Wunsch]

but the seanchan now have one of the forsaken to teach them new tricks ;)

[damandred]

Some other possible exceptions besides Seanchan::

-Aiel; since they will be allowed to go to any nation.

-White Tower; they also would have a ready supply of Gateways. And they would probably be able to influence nations through at least their eyes-and-ears. And a number of them can make cuendillar; and a few can create terangreal.

-Sea Folk; Tarmon Gaidon seemed to not affect their islands. And a number of them have learned Gateways.

 

 

 

Eventually the truce fails or something because some epigraphs are from Great Aravalon, Taralon, etc.

new place names could indicate almost anything.

The Aiel will have judical powers, so they will have a certain amount of political power, though seeing as though they have no head or ruler they will have to exorcise that power collectively, through an appointed representative. Elanyne has personal power as queen.

 

The white tower has been the main power in Randland throughout the third age, i doubt they will be able to regain their former influance, as attitudes have changed towards them. The open knowlendge of the black ajah, they have been seen as fallible, not to mention that now other groups of channelers are going about openly, windfinders , wise ones most of all the BT.

Dont forget Elayne can now make angreal, the only one known who can.

 

The sea folk were hit badly by the seanchan, so they need to recover from that. Also with the discovery of gateways they will lose business.

[mb]

Rand's descendents through at least Aviendha could become head/ruler of the Aiel.  Until that time, maybe Aviendha could lead the Aiel.  Though sometimes group lead could be considered better single-person lead.

 

The remainder of the Black Ajah seemed to have been captured by ogier; and earlier they were removed from the White Tower.  When those things become commonly known, Light-sided Aes Sedia might regain credibility.  Also, slight chance for any future Aes Sedia to become Black (or openly Black) since the remaining Forsaken seem to no longer have political power.

 

Others who have access to Gateways have seemed to still be busy; maybe as busy as they were before.  And some of them might have a similar degree of skill as the Sea Folk.

[avernite]

To be honest - I think it's all going to boil down to channelling power.

 

And while Elayne secured the Kin for now, she can't hold them. One other ruler being smart enough to offer them a similar deal and *bam*  half the Kin live there. Or the White Tower throws a hissy fit and essentially asserts that it, not Andor, controls the Kin. Or the BT declares independence and a king/queen of Andor messes up the fallout.

 

So which channelling powers exist? Mostly, I'd say, the WT (beaten up but not destroyed), the Seanchan (strong but have a continent to reclaim first - but after that, would lead in numbers), the BT (the only male candidate at this time, with thus possible global reach until someone else sets up opposition), the Aiel (decent strength, good support structure for the channellers), the Kin (under WT/Andorian control), Shara (divided, lots of losses) and the Seafolk (badly beaten up).

 

As it stands right now, the Seanchan would face nearly all the others if they broke the truce and so I think they won't, but jockeying for influence should be quite doable. In that, the Seanchan have the structure, the Aiel have legitimacy (as police force) as does the WT (by sheer inertia), and the BT has the numbers and the most distinctive model (being the only male organization) but no history or influence to start from.

 

I am going to guess whoever throws in with another party first wins. The Seanchan have issues with that due to their slavery-focus, but if they abandon that they have an excellent organisation. The Aiel probably have the most chance of integrating male and female channelers. The WT has so much history they could lend legitimacy to the BT or anyone, really, and they have the most universalist claim. And the BT has the ability to offer larger circles to all but the Seanchan-with-a'dam.

[DemandredFO]

My guess is the Seanchan demane system has to fall apart and rebuild before they can do anything. Fortouna will eventually channel to save Mat and probably bond him if the foreshadowing in ToM was correct. Besides, unclaimed land is littered across Randland continent which should keep enough rulers busy.

The Black Tower probably will break away at some point, but that will lead to the Court of the Sun merger between, Andor, Cairhien, and possibly Saldea and Ghealdon.

Getting back to the truce, it will last until Nyneave and Rand die, I have no idea what Rand is now, mortal or immortal until he chooses otherwise. The oaths will hopefully go away or a channeling Fortouna will outlive Nyneave. At the least it will last 600 years.

[damandred]

Rand's descendents through at least Aviendha could become head/ruler of the Aiel. Until that time, maybe Aviendha could lead the Aiel. Though sometimes group lead could be considered better single-person lead.

 

The remainder of the Black Ajah seemed to have been captured by ogier; and earlier they were removed from the White Tower. When those things become commonly known, Light-sided Aes Sedia might regain credibility. Also, slight chance for any future Aes Sedia to become Black (or openly Black) since the remaining Forsaken seem to no longer have political power.

 

Others who have access to Gateways have seemed to still be busy; maybe as busy as they were before. And some of them might have a similar degree of skill as the Sea Folk.

The point i was making is Elanye post TG benifited more than anyone else. In the decades and centuries to come nations will rise and fall, that is the way of the world. Lets list the advantages and set backs she suffered in TG.

 

Advantages

1, controle of the dragons. I know others will copy, but they will have to do it by salvage or visual coppying. Elanye has Aludra, the only illuminator left, the only one who knows the secrets of gunpowder. Plus she has the dragons meaning her people can perfect them at will.

 

2, Cairhien, one of the major nations of the world.

 

3, the Kin they made thier bargan with Elanyne and that IMO will last as long as Elanye lives which should be centuries. The travelling alone will make a fortune in merchants shipping goods. I know other can make gateways but Andoran, cairhien, two rivers and ghealdan merchants will use the kin.

 

4, Elanyne has a seed, the only person known who can make angreal, all will demand her services'. Not to mention the supply of angreal she can provide her kin, in a century the leaders of the kin could be as strong as the strongest AS.

 

Negatives; Andor and Cairhien were ravaged by trollocs. Many nations will have to rebuild. Elanye' resoures plus the dragon peace mean she will have the time to rebuild and when she does she will be a powerhouse, politically , economically and millitary.

[mb]

but the seanchan now have one of the forsaken to teach them new tricks ;)

They control that Forsaken.

 

 

Getting back to the truce, it will last until Nyneave and Rand die, I have no idea what Rand is now, mortal or immortal until he chooses otherwise. The oaths will hopefully go away or a channeling Fortouna will outlive Nyneave. At the least it will last 600 years.

The immortality granted to the Forsaken I guess applied to the soul, not the body; though I might be wrong there.

The truce would probably last as long as the truce participants are remembered.  Probably til several generations after the last such participant dies.

 

 

 

Rand's descendents through at least Aviendha could become head/ruler of the Aiel. Until that time, maybe Aviendha could lead the Aiel. Though sometimes group lead could be considered better single-person lead.

 

The remainder of the Black Ajah seemed to have been captured by ogier; and earlier they were removed from the White Tower. When those things become commonly known, Light-sided Aes Sedia might regain credibility. Also, slight chance for any future Aes Sedia to become Black (or openly Black) since the remaining Forsaken seem to no longer have political power.

 

Others who have access to Gateways have seemed to still be busy; maybe as busy as they were before. And some of them might have a similar degree of skill as the Sea Folk.

The point i was making is Elanye post TG benifited more than anyone else. In the decades and centuries to come nations will rise and fall, that is the way of the world. Lets list the advantages and set backs she suffered in TG.

 

Advantages

1, controle of the dragons. I know others will copy, but they will have to do it by salvage or visual coppying. Elanye has Aludra, the only illuminator left, the only one who knows the secrets of gunpowder. Plus she has the dragons meaning her people can perfect them at will.

 

2, Cairhien, one of the major nations of the world.

 

3, the Kin they made thier bargan with Elanyne and that IMO will last as long as Elanye lives which should be centuries. The travelling alone will make a fortune in merchants shipping goods. I know other can make gateways but Andoran, cairhien, two rivers and ghealdan merchants will use the kin.

 

4, Elanyne has a seed, the only person known who can make angreal, all will demand her services'. Not to mention the supply of angreal she can provide her kin, in a century the leaders of the kin could be as strong as the strongest AS.

 

Negatives; Andor and Cairhien were ravaged by trollocs. Many nations will have to rebuild. Elanye' resoures plus the dragon peace mean she will have the time to rebuild and when she does she will be a powerhouse, politically , economically and millitary.

 

Aludra I take taught Mat all Illuminator secrets.  Thus at least one other nation might become able to make "perfect" copies.

Or if Aludra did not teach Mat all those secrets, the secrets will become forgotten without somebody to pass the secrets to.

 

Like you pointed, nations would fall.  Cairhien might as well.

 

The Kin I would not count as an advantage unless there is either of these::

-something only the Kin can do

-something that the Kin are better at than everybody else

As far as I am aware; all things the Kin can do, others can also do.

Not sure if they are better at anything.

Gateways; the Kin currently have to link to create a big enough Gateway.

 

others might have found other seeds.  the scene seemed to imply that those who can create terangreal can also create angreal & sa'angreal.

Not entirely sure, but each seed might be able to be used in the creation of just 1 angreal or just 1 sa'angreal.  Not sure if seeds could be copied.

[damandred]

Aludra taught Mat about the construcion of the dragons, not how to make gunpowder.

 

Why would Cairhien fall???? True nations will rise and fall, but im talking of the years post TG. To suggest Cairhien might fall as a point against Elanynes power, is ridiculous. Might aswell say Tear might fall ot Illian or anyone.

 

You would not count the Kin as a advantage? Ok so having hundreds, maybe thousands of channellers under you direct controle is not a advantage? Not to mention the commercal side, they will be making gateways for merchants at a price and Elayne will have her cut out of every one.

 

 

 

Elayne is the only one known who can make angreal. True others will probably discover how to make ter' angreal, but Elayne is the only one with a seed. Angreal are rare, im guessing seeds are rarer still, also, IF, someone who can make angreal came a cross a seed, it would be doubtfull they would know what it was.

There was nothing to indicate a seed can only be used once, what made you think that?

[Swigaro]

 

but the seanchan now have one of the forsaken to teach them new tricks ;)

They control that Forsaken.

 

 

That forsaken isn't going to be doing anything, IMO.  At the very least, she won't be much of an asset.  The first thing the Sul'dam made Egwene do, once they captured her was destroy all of her possessions.  I would guess this is fairly standard procedure for them.  Moghedian was wearing her soul trap.  If she tried to resist, I think they'd be even more likely to force her to do so.  After that, I doubt she'd be able to teach them anything.

[Sabio]

The kin are to be part of the tower, I have never read anything that I can remember of the kin swearing loyalty to Andor.  I might be wrong but I do not remember them swearing to do as Elayne commands for the benefit of andor.  The kin come from many lands.

[damandred]

The kin are to be part of the tower, I have never read anything that I can remember of the kin swearing loyalty to Andor. I might be wrong but I do not remember them swearing to do as Elayne commands for the benefit of andor. The kin come from many lands.

You are right the kin are part of the tower, but agread with Elayne to provide healing and gateways on tap for Andor. But yeah i may of overstated obove the controle enanye has over then.